I heard there was a Morman cheating scandle back in the days at OCPM? Anyone know about what happened? Is this just a rumor?
Cheating scandal at OCPM back in the days?
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There was a big scandal with part I of the board exam years ago (nothing to do with Mormons) but I've never heard anything about OCPM.
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im an ocpm grad ....
i was not there when this occurred .......
the scandal actually involved ALL schools of podiatric medicine. It caused the invalidation of all scores for a certain year for part I nationwide. OCPM is associated with it because OCPM was the only school that sued NBPME and WON over the issue.
it did not have to do with a "group of mormon students having old tests."
It dealt with the following issue .... in lectures some professors would point out specific facts( ex max doses of local anesthetics ) and state "there is usually a board question about this, this is important to know" They stated this was based on what they had seen on the test over the years
you could try googling OCPM VS NBPME and actually read the court records yourself ........ this would avoid focusing on a specific group of students based on their religion and stating they cheated by keeping their study guides to themselves
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then why perpuate by typing (insert group of students here) here ......etc
its always a clic or a group of people that associate with each other whom may have or have not similiar personal history characteristics whom have notes/tests etc that everyone else wants
so really no body cares ..... but perhaps be more careful how you type or say things .....
the smallest comment can make the biggest splash especially when it comes to residency placement and interviewing
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maybe you should be worried about what you say, not what other people say
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yeah, i prefer to do that on a case by case basis, instead of making blanket statements. And yeah, I have "toned down the rhetoric." That is me taking accountability for my words. Notice nowhere did I say "yeah but other people bicker too." Nothing but love for you Anklebreaker. Now back to anatomy for me.
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Others have elluded to it but either people are getting things confused or else these are two completely separate incidents. When I started school, I came in on the tale end of the whole NBPME Part I fiasco. You used to have a week to take the test. Certain schools (and I honestly don't even remember which ones at this point) would send their stronger students in to take the test. They had some system where they would each remember some questions, come out, and write the questions down. The weaker students would take the test at the end of the week and by that point, would have a fair amount of the questions. The questions were then saved for incoming classes. Needless to say, it all blew up and lawsuits started flying left and right and the test and the way in which it was administered was completely changed, etc. But this did not happen AT OCPM.
Or there may be some completely different incident that happened at OCPM.
Or there may be some completely different incident that happened at OCPM.
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I've never heard of that story, but one time a professor did mention the "boards scandal". From what I heard there was some sort of study guide that students had (from various schools). The students took boards and passed. Then, the people who wrote the boards got mad and accused a lot of people of cheating. There were some lawsuits and the board administration lost. That's all I know...
Beyond that, there was whiskers (a poster that many of you may remember) that accused Mormons of having old tests and getting all A's. He got banned but you can probably look up his old posts.
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Several years ago there was a "Board Scandal" where Part I scores were thrown out due to "cheating" of some kind. I could never get a straight answer from anybody about this, but it did happen.
I'm not sure I understand what is scandalous about a group of students having an old test they found. It might not be altogether ethical to have and not share as we are all on the same team...or are we? The only way I see this as cheating is if the group of students broke into said professor's office and stole the actual test from the professor's desk or the desk of their assistant. If they got the test from an upperclassman, or even the library (sometimes they can be found there, believe it or not), how is this cheating? Unfortunately, the world we live in is highly competetive and some will use any angle they can to get ahead, even if it seems underhanded. Our class president did this during our second year and although those of us that he didn't share the tests with were upset that only a select few had the old test, most of us that studied hard for the examination did very well regardless.
I place the fault of this on the shoulders of those that generate the examinations. When a professor doesn't change up his/her examination questions at all over the course of ten years, there is something wrong there imho.
Forget about what others do. Forget about what others say. Do your work for you, knowing you will succeed. Things aren't fair and sometimes bad things happen to good people. Do your thing. Do your best. The rest will fall into place even if it takes a little longer than you expect.
I'm not sure I understand what is scandalous about a group of students having an old test they found. It might not be altogether ethical to have and not share as we are all on the same team...or are we? The only way I see this as cheating is if the group of students broke into said professor's office and stole the actual test from the professor's desk or the desk of their assistant. If they got the test from an upperclassman, or even the library (sometimes they can be found there, believe it or not), how is this cheating? Unfortunately, the world we live in is highly competetive and some will use any angle they can to get ahead, even if it seems underhanded. Our class president did this during our second year and although those of us that he didn't share the tests with were upset that only a select few had the old test, most of us that studied hard for the examination did very well regardless.
I place the fault of this on the shoulders of those that generate the examinations. When a professor doesn't change up his/her examination questions at all over the course of ten years, there is something wrong there imho.
Forget about what others do. Forget about what others say. Do your work for you, knowing you will succeed. Things aren't fair and sometimes bad things happen to good people. Do your thing. Do your best. The rest will fall into place even if it takes a little longer than you expect.
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so with all this being said... I don't see why the OP even cares?
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That's the story I heard.
Just curious because I heard some admin got in trouble for it? I was thinking that was maybe why OCPM gets such a bad rap?
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Once again, why does this matter at all??
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I've never heard that, but I did hear that the school sued the boards organization and won... which may have caused bad blood between the two organizations.
Yeah that was why someone said that the admin was accused of doing something that the board didn't approve of (cheating in their mind) is that what happened? Or were the admin suing for the students?
Also, the reason I heard this was a couple of friends were getting together over christmas break and one friend who is in dental school was talking about a wide scale dental school cheating scandal and another friend (medical student) that goes to the Caribbean was talking about a Caribbean med school cheating scandal so that was what made me look around about cheating in professional schools.
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it's never bad to know the history of a potential school you want to go to, or possibly the school you graduated from.
Since this involved the scores being thrown out for every pod school in the country, it's probably important to know exactly what happened, and how it was resolved for all the students who followed the honor code and were unjustly punished.
If it happened once, it can happen again. This probably doesn't matter to practicing pods, but for a student getting into one of these schools, it might make a world of a difference. Getting information is never bad. Take it easy guys...
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I disagree. Go to the school you like, ace your exams, get out, get a good residency.
When you're in practice no one cares where you went to school, what scandals happened, which classed whined about everything, or anything else for that matter. People care about your training in residency, and what kind of practitioner you are, which is not taught in school.
Gossip is one thing, but basing where you go to school on something that may have happened, that can't and probably won't be confirmed, the opinion of others who like to gossip as much as the next guy?
We are all assumingly bright, talented individuals. Is this really how you decide where you go to school?
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Absolutely not...this is not HOW you decide where to go to school, but to some it may simply be one of the minor factors in the decision.
But regardless of school, knowing the history of your profession and your school is generally never a bad thing.
The OP was just curious as to what had happened which is fine to discuss on this forum. That's what it's for. And if somebody has the time to respond, they can respond to his question. I just felt like he was getting bashed just for being curious.
I personally enjoyed learning something new...
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i don't know any of the details beyond the fact that they (OCPM admin/students/staff etc) were exonerated in court and that other schools ie - Barry and I believe Temple were accused of the same thing but didn't pursue legal action. sorry. maybe your friend talking about it can tell you more.
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So, I read all the links to the different threads, and this is my understanding of this topic.
1.) At OCPM, some Mormon guys found old tests and made them a study guide.
2.) They shared this guide with their friends.
3.) The new test was made of old test questions, so they had an advantage.
4.) They were accused of cheating, but legally they did nothing wrong.
5.) People who wished they had the test or thought using old tests is wrong made angry posts.
This happens as every school, and many groups have closely guarded "study secrets." (Old tests, websites with similar problems, material from other pod schools, etc) Some people work together (making a study guide from old tests could even be considered group study), others try and get a leg up on everyone else. My advice? Study hard and forget the politics - whatever school you go to. And there are politics like this everywhere, so don't let it deter you from going to a school that seems otherwise great.
Oh, and there will be Mormons at any school you go to, and in my personal opinion they are great guys and hard workers.
1.) At OCPM, some Mormon guys found old tests and made them a study guide.
2.) They shared this guide with their friends.
3.) The new test was made of old test questions, so they had an advantage.
4.) They were accused of cheating, but legally they did nothing wrong.
5.) People who wished they had the test or thought using old tests is wrong made angry posts.
This happens as every school, and many groups have closely guarded "study secrets." (Old tests, websites with similar problems, material from other pod schools, etc) Some people work together (making a study guide from old tests could even be considered group study), others try and get a leg up on everyone else. My advice? Study hard and forget the politics - whatever school you go to. And there are politics like this everywhere, so don't let it deter you from going to a school that seems otherwise great.
Oh, and there will be Mormons at any school you go to, and in my personal opinion they are great guys and hard workers.
