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I agree with the above post, albeit it's a bit harsh.

In addition, your religion has no bearing on your kindess, empathy, and desire to help others - which are also all part of a veterinary lifestyle.

I admit, I do also bristle when it is insinuated that someone, I will not be "saved" or am a "lesser person" because I don't believe in the Holy Ghost. I don't think that was RackingHorse's intent to specifically tell any one of us here that, but admittedly, it came off a bit wrong.
 
Coquette22 said:
There has to be some way for people to think, "Hey, he's being a good person because he's a Christian; maybe I should follow the teachings of Christ as well" versus "He's just a nice guy".
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A lot of people DO this. Lesser things have made people convert.

I made my above comments because people seemed unnecessarily riled about it. I understand that most of you are just struggling with the logical leap he's making, but I just wanted to point out that he's not particularly offensive.
 
breenie said:
t I just wanted to point out that he's not particularly offensive.
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Which makes it a great opportunity to discuss these ideas. 👍 Usually when I try to discuss religion with the very religious, things get way heated on either/both sides because my questions are considered "attacks" or what have you when I am genuinely seeking to understand what makes someone feel a certain way.

So, for me, it's a good opportunity to have a rational discussion and really try to understand someone else's point of view. 🙂
 
breenie said:
I just wanted to point out that he's not particularly offensive.
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I agree overall. And RH doesn't sounds like a nutjob evangelical trying to convert people.

The only slightly offensive statement was about how only Jesus can save people, and that people of other religions don't have the Holy Spirit so they aren't as "good" or whatever.....he should have known better on that account, because that *is* exclusionary and mildly inflammatory etc on a public forum.

In any case, I can see this thread getting derailed....

I myself can find no correlation whatsoever with a person's religion and how they live their life. None. I have met moral Christians, moral atheists, kind and loving Hindus, and also Christians and atheists and Hindus and whatever of extremely poor character and morality. There is no theistic monopoly on good behavior.
 
This post was not meant to stir up strong feelings and heated arguments. I have found that arguing intensely with people that believe differently than I do only leads to bitterness towards each other. It is better to say what needs to be said and let it go at that. Because, at the end of the day I will probably still believe what I believe and the other person will as well.

Also, to who ever said the Holy Ghost is not tangible, he very much is. I feel Him every day. 🙂
 
This pre-vet forum is still incredibly tame if this thread is considered heated 😉

I think Alliecat has done a respectful job of representin' 👍
 
I'm looking forward to school. We already had a little tension on the FB page. Should be interesting when I get stressed. A sailor has nothing on a Paratrooper.
 
Armymutt25A said:
I'm looking forward to school. We already had a little tension on the FB page. Should be interesting when I get stressed. A sailor has nothing on a Paratrooper.
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Was someone bringin the dramz?
 
RackingHorse said:
Well, I don't listen or respond to dirty jokes, say words that I shouldn't, I dress the way a Christian man should dress, and live as clean as I can to be a witness to people who need God. I can not name off all of the do's and dont's.
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emot-stare.gif


RackingHorse said:
Also, to who ever said the Holy Ghost is not tangible, he very much is. I feel Him every day. 🙂
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that's dirty
 
To address a few points since I checked last. The way I behave as a Christian in my work life is mostly just being a good person, and may not be explicitly Christian. I have a lot of non-Christian co-workers who behave the same. For me, it boils down to comfort level and observance. If I notice a client openly wearing a cross, I have offered to pray for that client's pet before (very much in the privacy of the exam room, and quietly). If I eat at work, I pray over my food. This is my way of being myself, and leaving myself open to questions if my co-workers feel like asking. I've also worked hard to find the balance between being openly Christian myself, without criticizing others or pushing anyone. I've been happy, and surprised with the number of polite conversations I've had.

There is also more too it than that. And it is very hard to explain. If you wanna here my story, or want my explanation of why I'm a Christian and why I do feel like I have a personal relationship with God, you(being anyone) are more than welcome to PM me and we'll talk. I had an overly pushy friend that drove me away from Christianity in high school, so I try very very hard not to "evangelize" anyone.

alliecat44 said:
Which makes it a great opportunity to discuss these ideas. 👍 Usually when I try to discuss religion with the very religious, things get way heated on either/both sides because my questions are considered "attacks" or what have you when I am genuinely seeking to understand what makes someone feel a certain way.

So, for me, it's a good opportunity to have a rational discussion and really try to understand someone else's point of view. 🙂
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katryn,
I appreciate you're posts, and I agree with you on what you have said so far. I do not try to cram my beliefs down peoples throats either. If they do begin to question me I will answer them with honest answers.

Also, to those of you who have posted smutty remarks it is neither professional or respectful to others who are trying to have a decent discussion.
 
RackingHorse, I am not trying to be mean, but I have been a Roman Catholic for 20+ years, went to Catholic School for 13 years, am active in my Church, and was an alter server for God knows how long and I very much disagree with your posts and find them to be offensive. I know that your intent is probably just to voice your opinion and not to sound rude, but (at least to me) you seem to be coming off that way. Among other things, I find your interpretation of the Holy Spiriit to be quite obnoxious, as it makes you sound as though you assume yourself to be better than others because of your religious identity. At least that it how it looks from where I am standing.

Additionaly, I find Bisbee's comments to also be offensive. Again, I do not know if it was your intent, but your previous post makes it sound as though you assume yourself to be superior to religious people by labeling all of them as incapable of logic and understanding. In effect you have defended yourself against rackinghorse's assertion of superiority over the non-religious by stating that you are in fact superior to the religious, thus debunking the assummed essence of your post.

Overall, I would think that awaring1 has more less labeled this post for what it is. Nothing more than a sorry excuse for a religious debate and completely irrelevant to the entire point of this forum - veterinary medicine.

P.S - Shiva probably would bitch slap all of our asses.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
The only slightly offensive statement was about how only Jesus can save people, and that people of other religions don't have the Holy Spirit so they aren't as "good" or whatever.....he should have known better on that account, because that *is* exclusionary and mildly inflammatory etc on a public forum.
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In his defense, he *was* asked, and that *is* what the Christian faith professes.

Should he not answer when he's asked specific questions? Should he misrepresent his faith just to avoid offending someone who asked questions? I feel a little like some people asked him questions, and are now attacking him for responding truthfully. That hardly seems fair.

I find his behavior admirable, regardless of my take on his faith. He's been asked questions, and presented straight-up "this is what I believe" answers. He has kept a calm demeanor in the face of some clearly (but subtly) hostile comments/questions.

I myself can find no correlation whatsoever with a person's religion and how they live their life.
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That comment is so full of win I'm not going to bother with how many thumbs up smileys it'd take...... We need a Charlie Sheen smiley.
 
I admit I'm a little shy in posting but, eh, I guess I'm in the mood to chance feeling like an idiot who wishes they kept their mouth shut. I just feel like I have an uncommon point of view to contribute.

These days I am agnostic but I spent almost my entire life a Christian. Agnostic, for those of you who do not know, means someone who does not believe in a god per se but is open to the possibility of there being a god or "something else" out there.

My current feelings toward Christianity is I could be wrong and there could be merit to it but as of right now I have no more reason to believe in it than I do Buddhism, Hinduism, aliens, or anything else. I searched for years to try to find a logical justification to my faith (in Christianity) and I never did. I asked so many Christians to explain why they believe what they believe and I found that everybody has a different opinion of what God wants from us! Ask ten different people what a verse means and you will get ten different (and conflicting) interpretations. How can all these people have God inside them telling them what the bible means? Why would God give each person a different message? How can all these people be right? I cannot fathom how there would be a God that holds us accountable for our sins when he cannot make up his mind on what those sins even are!

At church my head was filled with ideas that all people who do not want to be Christians do so because they are nasty, evil people but I started to notice that being Christian or non-Christian was no predictor of behavior. I see now that the choice to not be a Christian can be a non-emotional one made with logic.

I also began to notice that Christians get just as sick as non-Christians. This was a big let down since I had been told for years God takes care of and heals sick Christians. The only thing I see healing sick Christians is other humans (doctors, etc.) Okay, I'm open to the possibility that God helps out, but I do not notice any increase in the success rate of treatment between Christian and non-Christian people. Heck it seems like the Christians I know have more health problems than the non-Christians.

I just...I fail to see any benefit of being a Christian. Life seems identical to those who are not Christians. If I was a God I would certainally make myself more noticeable than this.
 
Spicykimchi-Thank you for your honest and well-expressed thoughts. I think it's important for people who feel the way we do to express ourselves at the risk of being labeled "evil" by some religious folks. This way, maybe some people who are having doubts about god and religion themselves will see that being an agnostic or an atheist doesn't make you a bad person (or a good person...nor does being a christian make you a bad or good person). Unfortunately, I often back away from religious discussions with religious people because, as I said in an earlier post, once a person brings "faith" into the discussion, then there's nothing left to say on my part since faith does not involve reason or rationality. But for anyone who is coming to a point of questioning his or her faith, it is a good thing, not a bad thing, to have good non-believers out there "coming out" so that they know it's okay! They will not burn in hell for the questioning or non-belief, because if you don't believe then you know there is no hell. Thanks again.
 
Bisbee said:
Spicykimchi-Thank you for your honest and well-expressed thoughts. I think it's important for people who feel the way we do to express ourselves at the risk of being labeled "evil" by some religious folks. This way, maybe some people who are having doubts about god and religion themselves will see that being an agnostic or an atheist doesn't make you a bad person (or a good person...nor does being a christian make you a bad or good person). Unfortunately, I often back away from religious discussions with religious people because, as I said in an earlier post, once a person brings "faith" into the discussion, then there's nothing left to say on my part since faith does not involve reason or rationality. But for anyone who is coming to a point of questioning his or her faith, it is a good thing, not a bad thing, to have good non-believers out there "coming out" so that they know it's okay! They will not burn in hell for the questioning or non-belief, because if you don't believe then you know there is no hell. Thanks again.
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If I may be so pert....Amen to both of you. In seriousness. This is why I actually enjoy talking with people from all walks of life and religion.

I do find it interesting, Spicy, that you decided on agnosticism because you felt you had no reason to believe one thing more than another. I choose Christianity for a very similar reason. I find that if I must take religion on faith (which is part of any religion), Christianity fits best with the kind of relationship I want with the God I believe in, and my world view.

I'd also like to bring a thought to the table for everyone from a professor of mine, that I think helps to bring a small explanation about why some logical rational minded scientists can also choose a faith based on a not always rational belief system. This particular professor was fond of pointing out that science shows a great many things, but PROVES none of them. We can explain gravity, and even have a great many equations and co-efficients that allow us to calculate gravity. But in the end, it is an unseen force. It is totally possible that gravity is not one downward force, but 6 upward forces and 3 downward forces that just happen to be greater. At the end of the day, we take it on faith that when we wake up the next morning, our feet will hit the floor and not the ceiling, and almost none of us will ever bother testing the direction of gravity everyday to see if it has changed.

For me, believing in the God of Christianity and the explanations offered by science is a similar process. I have had things happen in my life that can be well explained by the tenets of Christianity, and many things that can be well explained by science. Very rarely are they completely opposed, and a great many things cannot be explained by either. Therefore, at the end of the day, I choose to believe in both, the same way I believe in gravity.
 
This is all good talk, but the reality is....this type of conversation will never get far. If you are not Christian, then you don't 'get it' and if you are, you can talk until you are blue in the face and non-Christians won't 'get it'. I should know, because i sounded like half of these posts for a majority of my life. There are some defensive posts here and that's ok... I was bitter that i didn't fully believe for the longest time and questioned those that did. I could not comprehend how anyone with a science background could believe in God, but now I wonder how you can't.

I have worked on my faith and spent a LOT of time discovering it. On Easter, I was finally baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church after a long journey and i can now relate to someone like RH. I would have found a reason to attack some of his comments/ideas before, but i now see him as simply answering questions and sharing his thoughts and beliefs. No, you don't see the Holy Spirit, you feel it. I personally am a better person for being a Catholic and it will reflect in everything i do, including work. It's a lifestyle, just as is atheism or agnosticism. I'm not an evangelist by any means, but i try and live my life true to myself and true to God. I am, without question, a better friend, sister, daughter, aunt and person becuase of my faith. That alone, will make me better in whatever I do, so long as i am truly practicing and trying to live a holy life. So, it's not that you have to be a Christian to be a good vet, in my eyes. I just feel i WILL be a better vet because i am a Catholic.

That should make it clear as mud now.
 
It is true that in science we can not "prove" a concept but we sure can test the heck out of. Others can also test the concept, this can be done to the point of removing almost all uncertainty, but it is science so therefore we can't prove a hypothesis. Unfortunately, with religion you can't test anything. Therefore, I will stick with my science where I can atleast set up an experiment, run a T-test, use GIS, and come up with some significant findings to understand the world around me.

I have a similar story as spicy, so I can see where religious people can come from.
 
spicykimchi said:
I cannot fathom how there would be a God that holds us accountable for our sins when he cannot make up his mind on what those sins even are!
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Yes!

I was raised Christian but made many muslim friends in undergrad and had a hard time believing that these good people would not be allowed into heaven for not accepting Jesus. If God did that, that would totally be unfair, and not Godly at all!!!

Yes, I had this discussion with a very religious friend, and her answer was "Everyone is exposed to Jesus and has the chance to convert," but if you are raised a different religion that's not very fair.

Anyways, I like reading these posts, and have to admit that I as well don't understand the connection between showing someone how to be holy by being good. I like to think that I am good of my own volition and not because it is required by my religion.


Oh, and forgot to add that I would consider myself an agnostic. If there is a God, and he created everything, then he obviously likes diversity... and probably doesn't give a **** how we dress or who we love, etc etc
 
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Sh*tty people will do sh*tty things and use either their religion OR lack there of to defend their actions. Likewise, Good-hearted people will do kind unselfish things and attribute it to either their religion OR just wanting to be a decent human being....

Overall, religion is a personal choice that people can choose to advocate good OR evil......you don't have to fear a God to treat people with respect, and you can always repent for your sins if you treat people like ****...it works both ways.

For me, I never try to make any assumptions based on things like religion or politics, I like to get to know a person and judge them based on how they treat me and other people.

Just my 2 cents.......🙄
 
Mohorsegirl said:
Yes!
Oh, and forgot to add that I would consider myself an agnostic. If there is a God, and he created everything, then he obviously likes diversity... and probably doesn't give a **** how we dress or who we love, etc etc
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I very much agree with your post. Although I am still very active with my local church I have had sort of a falling out with the higher level of organized Catholicism (Pope, Cardinals, etc.) due in large part to the fact that I have found their teachings to be contradictory to their behavior. In school the priests would tell us to accept everyone, but then he would go on to tell us how we shouldn't be homosexual/transgendered. In the end I really don't think God cares if we are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Agnostic, Atheist, or whatever, so as long as we treat one another with respect. I believe that religion is a very personal matter and I don't feel that anyone should judge anyone else for their beliefs as everyone should have the right to believe in whatever he/she wants.
 
RackingHorse said:
.....was just wondering if anyone else here was, and if this has changed their view of or interest in the veterinary profession.
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in regards to the original Q...

yupp i'm a Christian. and yupp it does play a role in my life when vet med is involved.

for me, everytime before i start my volunteering, i just do a quick "prayer"/talk-out-loud-to-God asking that He'll give me strength to get through the pressures and wisdom to learn something new. and somehow, it really helps me!

also, being a Christian has made me think of things we learn in classes differently. i.e. of all the processes we learn in physics, chemistry, evolution, atoms, etc...what if all of that is fake/abstract? i'm sure someone can say the same thing about Christianity [what if God's fake?], but for me, it makes it harder to actually learn the material simply because i think its all bull and i obviously don't give a **** about it.

all i know i want to do in life is to help people. and i like animals. so i think i can mash 'em up together and help people by helping their animals, or by working with animals to improve the life of mankind by preventing disease transmission, or finding a cure. life is hard, and vet med is tough, but i know that i can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

and after reading all these posts, i just want to say..."Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" :]
 
thaowey said:
also, being a Christian has made me think of things we learn in classes differently. i.e. of all the processes we learn in physics, chemistry, evolution, atoms, etc...what if all of that is fake/abstract? i'm sure someone can say the same thing about Christianity [what if God's fake?], but for me, it makes it harder to actually learn the material simply because i think its all bull and i obviously don't give a **** about it.
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My eyebrows visibly raised while reading this.

You want to go... to vet school? And you think it's possible that atoms and chemistry could possibly be fake?
 
twelvetigers said:
My eyebrows visibly raised while reading this.

You want to go... to vet school? And you think it's possible that atoms and chemistry could possibly be fake?
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I had to read that part of the post twice as well...thaowey you should probably be helping people and animals in another way if you don't believe in basic science. Vet med is based on science.
 
Chinola said:
I had to read that part of the post twice as well...thaowey you should probably be helping people and animals in another way if you don't believe in basic science. Vet med is based on science.
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Yes, yes, 1000000x YES.

Otherwise--how are you going to make treatment decisions if you don't believe the validity of ANY study over another one?? Talk about a slippery slope into quackery....

Perhaps you meant your post in a different way than thinking all science is BS?? :idea:
 
thaowey said:
also, being a Christian has made me think of things we learn in classes differently. i.e. of all the processes we learn in physics, chemistry, evolution, atoms, etc...what if all of that is fake/abstract? i'm sure someone can say the same thing about Christianity [what if God's fake?], but for me, it makes it harder to actually learn the material simply because i think its all bull and i obviously don't give a **** about it.
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Triple take?? So you don't think chemical processes are real because you believe in God? Wow.

If your reasons for going into vet med are that you want to help people and like animals, but you think all science is bull...you might want to reevaluate your career goals...
 
twelvetigers said:
My eyebrows visibly raised while reading this.

You want to go... to vet school? And you think it's possible that atoms and chemistry could possibly be fake?
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Same. I can see you mentioning evolution, that is typical among christians, though I don't see how if you have taken a comparative anatomy course. But including basic chemistry and physics in that list 😱 It made my jaw drop. These are concepts that have been tested again, and again, and again, and again. Yikes.
 
bbeventer said:
Same. I can see you mentioning evolution, that is typical among christians, though I don't see how if you have taken a comparative anatomy course.
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Plus antibiotic resistance is just as big a problem (if not bigger, due to herd health implications) in animals as it is in humans, and it's basically evolution in action.
 
ahhh ok...maybe i that came out wrong...lol.

i guess what i was trying to say was based on my own personal opinion of how i view some of the science-y classes. and nooooo, not alll science is bologna to me. i like basic bio, processes of the body, physiology, diseases, cells, etc., i grasp the concepts of elements, chemical reactions, how they interplay in the body and nature, gravity, force, pressure, energies...

however, when wave functions, atomic orbitals, evolutionary pressures, ligand field theory, etcc comes into play, i'm sorry, but i see no significance...

after re-evaluating everything, i realize that how i feel about science acutally really doesn't have to do with my religious beliefs...guess I should've never posted in the first place...(but that's what happens when you're up late studying for inorganic chemistry and just want to release your frustration with learning organometallics and crystal field theories and then go on SDN...my badddd)
 
thaowey said:
also, being a Christian has made me think of things we learn in classes differently. i.e. of all the processes we learn in physics, chemistry, evolution, atoms, etc...what if all of that is fake/abstract? i'm sure someone can say the same thing about Christianity [what if God's fake?], but for me, it makes it harder to actually learn the material simply because i think its all bull and i obviously don't give a **** about it.
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:wow: Seriously, how can you want to be a vet if you don't believe in basic science?! Atoms are fake? You have a harder time in science classes because it's all bull?! And what's worse, you don't give a shi*t about it? That's a pretty big thing to not care about if you want to enter a scientific field. The vet profession is equally, if not more, about science than helping animals and their owners. Everything you do as a vet will involve an understanding the of the underlying science.
 
wow...ok, after all of these responses, i really am seriously re-considering my future now...

for real, thank you y'all for putting into perspective that all these years i have been trying to fool myself. i know forums/online communication cannot express emotion of the author to the reader exactly, but i really am not being sarcastic or anything like that...i really am thinking about what i want to do now...i guess sometimes when you're about to graduate, there's always those last minute revelations and epiphanies that tell you to really think about what you're going to do for the rest of your life...ahhhhhhhhhhhh
 
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Minnerbelle said:
hey now, if your faith did have a lot to do with your call to become a veterinarian, don't let opinions of random heathens on the internet make you reconsider 😉
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I legit just shot cappuccino out my nose.
 
Minnerbelle said:
hey now, if your faith did have a lot to do with your call to become a veterinarian, don't let opinions of random heathens on the internet make you reconsider 😉
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LOL, oh you funnyyyyy

ehh whatever...i never felt like i was "called" to do this anyways...it was mostly just interest, and from there, what i can actually do with vet med.

anywho, i'm done. gave me 2cents, so peaceee!
 
You may have managed to sound more crazy than you actually are. 🙂

If it has made you think, then think. Vet med isn't something to go into unless you are sure. If I'm recalling correctly, your GPA may mean that you have to struggle a bit to get in to a school... if that's the case, then you really, really want to be sure. Dedication isn't optional in this process. It's a survival tool.

So think. Talk to people you trust. PM a friendly forum member. Really hash it over.

Let us know what you decide, if you can. 🙂
 
thaowey said:
LOL, oh you funnyyyyy

ehh whatever...i never felt like i was "called" to do this anyways...it was mostly just interest, and from there, what i can actually do with vet med.

anywho, i'm done. gave me 2cents, so peaceee!
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My last post was a bit tongue in cheek, but I did have a serious message in there too. I really do have a lot of respect for people who draw strength in their faith to guide their lives to better and/or challenge themselves, regardless of whether I understand/agree with their rational or not. It was just kind of sad to see you dwindle so much after a few retorts about one stupid comment you made...

And TT is absolutely right. Dedication is a requirement if you want to actually go through with vet med, and if you really feel as though you aspired to it simply through "just interest" then maybe it isn't for you. But I thought you'd been around on this board enough to understand that. Yes, definitely think and talk through it thoroughly before you decide one way or another. But don't let a few comments about your religion and perception of subatomic particles and intangible forces be what completely throws you overboard.
 
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