Class of 2013-how worse off are we?

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I'd say you guys are pretty ******
 
Podophile said:
I'd say you guys are pretty ******
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Are you kidding me.

If this is the case we need a big public service announcement "Buyers Beware" burying this type of information with credible sources is criminal(I do not mean this literally) to say the least.
 
Worst case scenario actually has the class of 2013 short by up to 170 positions.
 
170 students is like leaving every Temple student (107 students) + all DMU students + a few more without a residency. I initially thought it was 70+, but if 170 is the real #, then almost 1/5 of us are not going to get a spot. I hope you are wrong. One thing to consider. At temple we started 125, we are down to 107. The NY School had an initial class size in the 90s, less than then their past class size. Can you guys post how many students there are in ur schools. We can figure this out on this forum.
 
Here is what i have from the latest APMSA meeting. This does NOT include students that may have dropped or failed boards.

Class of 2013

Westen 24
Temple 107
Ohio 109
NY 76
California 46
DMU 45
Barry U 56
AZOPOD 31
Scholl 105

total 608

Its a rough estimate. Maybe you guys could confirm some of these numbers.
 
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From PM News:

CASPR Match Rate is 83%, 90 Applicants to Vie for 63 Unfilled Positions

The American Association of Colleges of Podiatric Medicine (AACPM) and the Council of Teaching Hospitals (COTH) announced the results of the 2012 CASPR Match on April 5, 2012. This year, 530 qualified applicants (487 from the Class of 2012 and 43 from previous classes) contended for 503 entry-level residency positions. 440 positions were filled through the Match, a match rate of 83% for applicants and 87% for programs.

The 90 remaining qualified applicants (71 from the Class of 2012 and 19 from previous classes) have the opportunity to participate in the Scramble to fill the remaining 63 unfilled positions. For the first time in 2012, applicants had to have passed APMLE Part I and Part II to participate in the Match.

New spots have since opened up, I forget how many though.*

Remember that anyone failing Part 2 twice is considered "unqualified" and is thus not added in here. So here you can add in the qualified that didn't get a spot, and however many people are retaking part 2 and reentering the match from past years.
 
I just called CASPR/CRIP 2 mins ago. 444 spots now with 35 programs awaiting their status to participate in 2013 match. There are 10 qualified students who did not match that are going to be added to our bunch for sure. The unqualified student will certainly become qualified and will be added to 2013 as well. So 619 that are currently qualified for 444 current spots. That's 175 students without a job. 29% CURRENTLY will be left high and dry. Way to go APMA.
 
Your math is off I think. If you're using the 608 figure from hematosis, you're not factoring in the 2013 people who've left from attrition or failed the boards. That is a significant chunk of students! Also you're just leaving out the "35 programs awaiting status." You have to figure most of these will move past provisional status and be active in the 2013 Match. I'm not saying there's not a problem, but it's not as dire as your calculations make it out to be (because you're leaving out certain numbers)
 
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that APMSA thing is way off. DMU is at 45 students in the class of 2013
 
ckjets said:
I just called CASPR/CRIP 2 mins ago. 444 spots now with 35 programs awaiting their status to participate in 2013 match. There are 10 qualified students who did not match that are going to be added to our bunch for sure. The unqualified student will certainly become qualified and will be added to 2013 as well. So 619 that are currently qualified for 444 current spots. That's 175 students without a job. 29% CURRENTLY will be left high and dry. Way to go APMA.
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Well, that is unfortunate.

Here is to the 35 programs having a large number of entry level seats.
 
Realistically, we are estimated to graduate around 571 students in 2013. So if we end up with 571 students and all 35 of those programs get cleared we will be in much better shape. But then you have to add in all of the previous years students who qualify for the match with us. If you're in the bottom 25% of your class and/or you have a bad personality/no skills you should be getting pretty nervous.
 
Currently there are over 500 seats. The estimated number of 2013 graduates was around 550 (they factor in an average part II failure rate). Students will be given updated numbers that are much more accurate than anything that has been posted on here so far (aside from Sigs post regarding last years match).

At least that's what I was told by a director whom I am close to. A couple months ago, before I finished. He is in the know regarding COTH happenings.
 
RockyIV said:
Students will be given updated numbers that are much more accurate than anything that has been posted on here so far (aside from Sigs post regarding last years match).
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Can't remember the 2013 projections off the top of my head, but for some reason I'm thinking the 570 number thrown out above is a little more accurate. The COTH will meet again in mid-August (16th-19th-ish). New numbers should be made available soon after that weekend.
 
My numbers are directly from COTH. However, since they were projections I'm sure they are likely to change a little at the next meeting.
 
Western has 24 that will be in the match. A few are doing masters degrees.

Still, this makes me super nervous. I keep seeing programs (at least in California) closing all the time with no new ones to replace them. There have been a few programs who have increased the number they will take, but that hasn't offset the closing programs.

Keep working hard out there!
 
darazon said:
Western has 24 that will be in the match. A few are doing masters degrees.

Still, this makes me super nervous. I keep seeing programs (at least in California) closing all the time with no new ones to replace them. There have been a few programs who have increased the number they will take, but that hasn't offset the closing programs.

Keep working hard out there!
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Are you willing to go out of state?
 
This doesn't sound good at all. What I was told that last year, qualified students with good GPAs did not match after the scramble because there were simply not enough spots. Now according to this forum 100 plus qualified students won't get a spot at all because there aren't enough places? I don't buy what the other students are saying. I think students have been doing all that we can to obtain a spot. Eventually every student passes boards and becomes qualified so the boards issue doesn't resolve the problem nor can it be used as an excuse anymore. Hospitals continue to close; not enough pods want to be residency directors; and sure approval takes time but really three years on average? Someone is dropping the ball on the other side and it's not all on the students anymore. Every qualified applicant who is competent should land an entry level position. Period. This is very bad for the profession in general and worse on the students end. IMHO. What does the APMA expect us to do? Drop out of the profession all together? Keep trying year after year hoping things get better? Anyone else as frustrated as I am?
 
They are changing it so that ppl who haven't passed both boards can't participate in the match. So that should make the numbers a little friendlier? Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
jellybean2020 said:
They are changing it so that ppl who haven't passed both boards can't participate in the match. So that should make the numbers a little friendlier? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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That is correct. If you do not pass part II, you are dropped from the match. This happened last year for sure, and I believe the year before that also.
 
All that is true, but if what is going around is correct, you can PASS boards and STILL not get a spot, and THAT is the worrisome reality. The low number of those whom do not pass wont help us out for THIS cycle.

Please tell me I am wrong.
 
dtrack22 said:
Can't remember the 2013 projections off the top of my head, but for some reason I'm thinking the 570 number thrown out above is a little more accurate. The COTH will meet again in mid-August (16th-19th-ish). New numbers should be made available soon after that weekend.
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It was 571, so pretty much spot on. This should also help and is from the COTH stats as of last Feb:

Total number of ACTIVE residency positions: 525
Total number of CASPR applicants: 599
This inclues 70 previous grads who reentered the cycle. Like dtrack said, new figures are coming but breathe a little easier knowing the figures are absoultely closer to 70 students than 170.
 
Doesn't sound right- there were 70 previous applicants from last year. Still, no bueno.
 
hotdawg said:
All that is true, but if what is going around is correct, you can PASS boards and STILL not get a spot, and THAT is the worrisome reality. The low number of those whom do not pass wont help us out for THIS cycle.

Please tell me I am wrong.
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Well yeah, I mean...passing the boards doesn't (and shouldn't) mean automatic residency. There's many factors: What if on rotations the person isn't a team player, has no bedside manner with patients, isn't motivated, brown-noses, etc. What if the person is terrible at interviews and chokes or says embarrassing stuff at all of them? What if the person was overconfident and applied to only a few residencies, or didn't rank enough? Lots of things to consider and worry about. 😱 But worrying about every single variable is too much stress. Just focus on doing you're best; I'm sure you'll be fine!
 
Ankle Breaker said:
I agree that there are external factors (like the ones you already mentioned) that can influence whether a student matches or not. BUT if this profession is to be taken seriously then everyone should be able to get post graduate training if they are passing boards and meeting the minimum academic criteria of their podiatry school. If they do all that and are still clueless then one needs to question those mininum standards.
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Lets clarify that- they should have the opportunity, but it should not be a "right". If a residency director is willing to say "my team will be better served by having this person here" then I am all for it. But if nobody says that even though they pass boards and whatever, then too bad. At the end of the day residency is a job - not a right. You are working on somebody else's patients. If they don't want you, too bad.
And we all know where the schools priorities are by the way. That is why I view residency directors as the gatekeepers of the profession at the current time.
 
If you are going to accept X amount of students, then you should do your BEST to accomodate those X amount of students with residency. That's it. I know this is difficult to achieve. You can have unfilled programs because a candidate does not qualify (and still have competition), but to have a shortage of programs and say that the people who did not match were not good enough is absurd guys. These students have passed their classes, boards, meet all the minimum requirements to graduate and paid their tuition. This is unethical and very unprofessional.

Its like selling 500 ticket for a parking lot when you only have space for 400. Really? Well...i'm sorry if the 100 did not get a spot. Your car just isn't sexy enough.
 
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I am saying school and residency are 2 distinct entities, not a continuation. Maybe that is where the disagreement is. Yes, I agree there should be enough residencies for all student---But not all students should get residencies.
 
air bud said:
-But not all students should get residencies.
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Perhaps you mean "not all students should NECESSARILY get residencies." it's certainly conceivable that all students who pass step two are capable/"worthy" of a residency. Making a statement saying that not all should is a little extreme, in my opinion.
 
MaxillofacialMN said:
Perhaps you mean "not all students should NECESSARILY get residencies." it's certainly conceivable that all students who pass step two are capable/"worthy" of a residency. Making a statement saying that not all should is a little extreme, in my opinion.
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1st sentence - sure
2nd sentence - not sure
3rd sentence - i just drank a mountain dew, I like to get extreeeeeeeme
 
What are people's thoughts on students who fail Part II of the National Board Exam the three times it is offered during the fourth year and pass it the following year? Realistically students need to pass Part II of the boards in the fourth year or you can pack it in. So based on trending data knowing the number of graduates and how many will pass the boards based on previous pass rates you can almost predict the number of residencies needed for students idenitfied as fourth year students at the start of the year. Unfortunately those that don't have little chance of getting a residency program nor will the profession create more residency programs for students/graduates who sit out a year because they failed Part II. Which brings into question is the residency shortage really that significant? This year 12-14 graduates passed the boards after multiple attempts and there are no programs available at this point in time. Should residency programs be developed for a group of students/graduates who statistically are unlikely to ever past the boards after failing it multiple times?
 
Also, just to be clear. There were enough residency programs for all qualified graduates in the class of 2012. The shortage was a result of prior years graduates taking slots. Bottom line, with increased size of graduation classes, if you don't pass part I after July/October cycle, don't get yourself further in dept. Get out. If you don't pass part II of the boards after the Jan/March/May cycle, its too late. Sorry but that is the harsh reality that many of the colleges fail to convey to their students. It's not like it was when there was a surplus of residencies with only 400 graduates.
 
wait, hold on a second, I think I'm missing something: What's a residency? Why do I need it to practice podiatry?:idea:
 
The residency dilemma must be resolved. It is a travesty for one to pass all courses, incur upwards of $200,000 + in debt, pass the boards and not have a residency spot.

What is one to do? Can the individual become an RN, PA, or NP? Even with all of the courses one takes in podiatric medical school, the answer to the aforementioned question is "no."
 
I highly doubt if you pass all your courses and pass the boards, you can still NOT get a residency. You'd have to mess up somewhere along the line during the application process. I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who don't match (even after the Scramble process) is because they have some sort of red flag. Most probably from not passing either part 1 or 2 of the boards. If this is not the case, and many qualified applicants with no red flags are ending up residency-less for no good reason, then I'll retract my comment. But I doubt this is the case.

I mean, this isn't unique to podiatry. The same holds true for all medical students. After all, what do you think happens to MD/DO students if they don't pass the USMLE Step 1 or Step 2 after several consecutive tries? The answer is not "still goes on and matches into residency of desired field." I imagine those people find other professions and careers to pursue. Paying tuition for school just gets us an education; whether we take advantage of it is up to us.
 
I agree, if one repeatedly fails boards, then he or she should needs to pursue other opportunities.

I would really like to pursue podiatry, but I must also consider the risks of not obtaining a residency spot.

Nobody anticipates being in the bottom 5-10 percent of his or her class, but that is where some people end up.
 
sidelines said:
I agree, if one repeatedly fails boards, then he or she should needs to pursue other opportunities.

I would really like to pursue podiatry, but I must also consider the risks of not obtaining a residency spot.

Nobody anticipates being in the bottom 5-10 percent of his or her class, but that is where some people end up.
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Sounds like less of a podiatry issue, and more of a confidence issue. Have you sat down and talked with your folks about it?
 
No, there was not enough spots for all qualified applicants last year.I don't know the specifics of all the students but I do know there were no glaring red flags for the ones that did not obtain a spot, from what I was told. Perhaps a heart to heart with a director at our schools should be in order.

Simply put, after the scramble it's first come first serve. Should these students be punished? And should the re applicants who are residents now be stripped of their current spots? should the residents who failed boards part 1 three times but obtained a residency be booted out of their spots? Come on, now.

Granted, a residency is a privilege not a right based on a variety of factors. But IMHO, no student or graduate who meets the criteria should be without a spot. MD students who did not get the scores they wanted do an interm year that's paid and try for the specialty they want or do IM. They are not stuck and not all graduating MDs are in top of their class. That's crazy.

I know there is a lot of doom and gloom on this site and I sincerely hope everyone gets a spot this year. But many will not, and it is not because they sat through four years of school playing on their smart phones. People get unlucky. Maybe the powers that be should discourage anyone who is a re applicant from applying again. But that would take away the achievements of those residents who did re apply and obtained a spot. But none of that will solve the issue. People will continue to apply, and residencies Need to be created to meet that demand. The ones that never truly cared about the profession were weeded out early as evidenced by the drop in class sizes after the first year. But weeding out after four years after successfully going through the curriculum and passing boards? And then telling us students tough luck? Find another profession? Not a solution to the shortage, IMHO.

Much respect to the opinions of those that posted on this thread, BTW.
 
hotdawg said:
No, there was not enough spots for all qualified applicants last year.I don't know the specifics of all the students but I do know there were no glaring red flags for the ones that did not obtain a spot, from what I was told. Perhaps a heart to heart with a director at our schools should be in order.

Simply put, after the scramble it's first come first serve. Should these students be punished? And should the re applicants who are residents now be stripped of their current spots? should the residents who failed boards part 1 three times but obtained a residency be booted out of their spots? Come on, now.

Granted, a residency is a privilege not a right based on a variety of factors. But IMHO, no student or graduate who meets the criteria should be without a spot. MD students who did not get the scores they wanted do an interm year that's paid and try for the specialty they want or do IM. They are not stuck and not all graduating MDs are in top of their class. That's crazy.

I know there is a lot of doom and gloom on this site and I sincerely hope everyone gets a spot this year. But many will not, and it is not because they sat through four years of school playing on their smart phones. People get unlucky. Maybe the powers that be should discourage anyone who is a re applicant from applying again. But that would take away the achievements of those residents who did re apply and obtained a spot. But none of that will solve the issue. People will continue to apply, and residencies Need to be created to meet that demand. The ones that never truly cared about the profession were weeded out early as evidenced by the drop in class sizes after the first year. But weeding out after four years after successfully going through the curriculum and passing boards? And then telling us students tough luck? Find another profession? Not a solution to the shortage, IMHO.

Much respect to the opinions of those that posted on this thread, BTW.
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Yeah MD students that score poorly can do an interim year, then apply again. But they have to have PASSING board scores first, to even do an interim year. These are people who could match Family Med perfectly fine if they wanted, but they want to do a specialty harder to get into. What happens to those MD students who don't have passing scores? They can't do interim year.

Also, I'm afraid I can't put much stock into "from what I was told." What exactly were you told that makes you think perfectly qualified P4's with no red flags are not matching left and right? I'm not trying to be contrary; I just need to see actual solid 'evidence' to change my opinion.
 
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I agree with you...that was information given to me by my program, not SDN. I trust the source.

Yes, again about the MD students....sure, if they don't receive a passing score they do not do an interm year...but those that pass, do. There is no interm year for podiatry students who pass . The question is not what to do about those that failed boards, it's what happens to students who pass and yet due to a shortage sit out. That was the focus of this thread, and without any new statistics for this year as of yet most of this discussion is moot.
 
You guys realize that almost every year the MD's end up with hundreds of residency spots unfilled whereas we don't have enough residency spots for our qualified applicants.
 
hematosis said:
You guys realize that almost every year the MD's end up with hundreds of residency spots unfilled whereas we don't have enough residency spots for our qualified applicants.
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That's a misleading statement. A generalization like that does not account for the different specialties. For example: last year Emergency Medicine had no unfilled spots. Every EM spot was taken. Whereas Family Med, Psych, Internal Med, every year will have many unfilled spots both due to their sheer number of spots and due to their less competitive nature.

Also, with regard to "hundreds of residency spots unfilled" ...keep in mind there are many many thousands of MD medical students that apply for residency every year (not counting the additional thousands of DO's and IMG/FMG's that face an uphill battle).

PS: I'm not disputing that podiatry needs to step its game up with the residency spots, I certainly hope it happens, especially when it becomes my time to apply! I'm just adding some clarification. Hope you don't mind.
 
This is a great discussion and I believe everybody needs to be aware of this vital issue. From my understanding, this has been an ongoing issue as mentioned on the depressing site network54.

If podiatry wants to continue to attract bright students, more residencies must be created.
 
jellybean2020 said:
That's a misleading statement. A generalization like that does not account for the different specialties. For example: last year Emergency Medicine had no unfilled spots. Every EM spot was taken. Whereas Family Med, Psych, Internal Med, every year will have many unfilled spots both due to their sheer number of spots and due to their less competitive nature.

Also, with regard to "hundreds of residency spots unfilled" ...keep in mind there are many many thousands of MD medical students that apply for residency every year (not counting the additional thousands of DO's and IMG/FMG's that face an uphill battle).

PS: I'm not disputing that podiatry needs to step its game up with the residency spots, I certainly hope it happens, especially when it becomes my time to apply! I'm just adding some clarification. Hope you don't mind.
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I should have clarified. I didn't say anything about any particular specialty because it is irrelevant to the point i was trying to make. There are hundreds of residency left unfilled and that is that. The point is these guys have options (btw, i'm talking about US graduates of course) So you didn't match into EM? tough luck scramble into FM or IM. Do 1 year paid research and reapply, etc. We do not have some of these options.

here is 33 pages of unfilled programs including EM.

http://www.healthsciences.okstate.e...ts/unfilled programs last update 03192012.pdf
http://www.nrmp.org/2012springmeeting.pdf
 
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