MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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I started this thread for the purposes of primal screams into the abyss and neurotic worrying about ERAS.
Please take your political discussions elsewhere or I will fully support and request the mods locking this thread.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming....

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
So if my sub-I in march gets cancelled due to covid, my last patient interaction before July 1 2021 would have been end of September 2020...I'm ****ing terrified to say the least
 
somedudehere said:
So if my sub-I in march gets cancelled due to covid, my last patient interaction before July 1 2021 would have been end of September 2020...I'm ****ing terrified to say the least
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there are soooooooooooooooo many 4th years who stop seeing patients in october/november. You'll be ok. Even though Im nervous too.
 
somedudehere said:
So if my sub-I in march gets cancelled due to covid, my last patient interaction before July 1 2021 would have been end of September 2020...I'm ****ing terrified to say the least
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My last patient interaction was on June of 2020. My school has a very flexible MS4 and I will be research and radiology electives until graduation. An IM intern whose last med school rotation was in 8 months prior to residency told me that the learning curve in intern year is steep regardless, but it all comes back. Don't worry too much about it and try to enjoy the last few months of freedom.
 
So looks like I’m going to
round out my gen surge cycle with 8 interviews. Almost all are from auditions. Praying to God I match somewhere. That said I officially think I have enough to justify a surgery prelim if I go unmatched. Honestly just pounding out so many auditions I feel pretty prepared to do well in a prelim somewhere. I applied to the prelim spots of basically every program I sent apps, however, and haven’t actually been offered any prelim interviews. Should I maybe hit up some places and specifically ask for a prelim interview? NRMP data shows basically all of these places have unfilled prelim spots prior to soap every year. Maybe I’ll increase my odds of getting a spot at a reputable program in the soap if I express interest now? The ERAS panic is real.

I also snagged FM/IM style LORs from some attendings that have become good friends (we’re the same age, our kids have play dates and stuff) so I also have the “screw this, I’m out” plan for soap if I need it. My thought is if I go unmatched, then round 1 of soap is a bomb, I do a frantic grab for FM somewhere in the next round. Is this reasonable?
 
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efle said:
Weren't we supposed to do 0 aways
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Every school has treated this differently. I met tons of students doing as many aways as they could on my trail. The policy of my school was “we don’t have a core site, if the hospital says yes then you can go.” All of my auditions were at small community programs that almost exclusively recruit based in auditions. Some are even doing in person interviews reserved only for auditioners.
 
Ho0v-man said:
Seems like half the applicant pool to any field ignored this and gave themselves a big advantage. I’ve met people who’ve been doing aways since June.
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Considering both my surgery cores were canceled due to COVID it’s a freaking miracle I was able to do these auditions. I honestly have no idea how someone in my shoes would apply to surgery without doing aways. “Hi program I realize I have zero months of formal rotations in this field, but please consider me cause look at my Step 1.” It’s bananas. If I didn’t miss my core surgeries and my core site had a residency program I could definitely see my school saying “nah, you’re good - stay put.” But in the end I’m super thankful my school supported me and these places were willing to give me a shot.
 
So remember how EM CORD (EM PDs) recommended doing like 1-2 aways MAX?

My friend who did 1 away (following guidelines) has been constantly questioned why he only did 1 away and has < 8 II

My other friend who did 4 aways has been flooded with interviews.

What a ****ed up cycle.
 
somedudehere said:
So remember how EM CORD (EM PDs) recommended doing like 1-2 aways MAX?

My friend who did 1 away (following guidelines) has been constantly questioned why he only did 1 away and has < 8 II

My other friend who did 4 aways has been flooded with interviews.

What a ****ed up cycle.
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@gamerEMdoc please share your thoughts on above because we're confused
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Yea it’s some ****. My understanding was 0 if you have a home program since you can get letters from each hospital in the system, 1 if you have no home program, and 2 if you have any red flags. I dropped multiple on EMGamerdoc’s recommendation cause his program viewed disregarding the guidelines as a red flag.
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What I learned: the stupid rules he “organization” came up to make sure things are fair to everyone (cancel away completely, no away for those with home program, and 1 without”...are all bull****...they don’t work if not everyone follow (students) or know about it (faculties)...then they encourage under table phone calls and some allows second look even tho we were told no etc...how is that fair? 🤦‍♀️
 
frenchyn said:
What I learned: the stupid rules he “organization” came up to make sure things are fair to everyone (cancel away completely, no away for those with home program, and 1 without”...are all bull****...they don’t work if not everyone follow (students) or know about it (faculties)...then they encourage under table phone calls and some allows second look even tho we were told no etc...how is that fair? 🤦‍♀️
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It looks like don't trust SDN info and ignore guidelines to maximize as many interviews as possible.

That's really stupid.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Well to be fair Every resident I’ve ever met said to avoid SDN like the plague soooo... Although I credit people reviewing my app and helping write my PS for getting me into med school.
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But what's the point of the EM recommendations? Safe to say that they don't mean anything at all and many EM applicants just handicapped themselves following the guidelines? Like what are EM programs even doing?
 
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Lawpy said:
@gamerEMdoc please share your thoughts on above because we're confused
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I haven’t interviewed anyone that did more than 2. I’d say 80% or more only did one. I’ve seen a ton of O-sloes, non-residency SLOEs, and subspecialty SLOEs. I can only speak to the people that applied my way and who I’ve interviewed. But the vast majority of people seemed to comply with the recommendations that I have seen.
 
Spectreman said:
Considering both my surgery cores were canceled due to COVID it’s a freaking miracle I was able to do these auditions. I honestly have no idea how someone in my shoes would apply to surgery without doing aways. “Hi program I realize I have zero months of formal rotations in this field, but please consider me cause look at my Step 1.” It’s bananas. If I didn’t miss my core surgeries and my core site had a residency program I could definitely see my school saying “nah, you’re good - stay put.” But in the end I’m super thankful my school supported me and these places were willing to give me a shot.
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My school legit told me to screw those guidelines. Not because they wanted me to have more letters or maximize my chance of matching. They just didn’t want to be bothered with educating me in fourth year. I still stuck to the guidelines because I didn’t know if it would be looked at unfavorably or not. And to just be safe.

I actually haven’t been able to rotate at the residencies at my core site because they’re inundated with OOS rotators.
 
Ho0v-man said:
My school legit told me to screw those guidelines. Not because they wanted me to have more letters or maximize my chance of matching. They just didn’t want to be bothered with educating me in fourth year. I still stuck to the guidelines because I didn’t know if it would be looked at unfavorably or not. And to just be safe.

I actually haven’t been able to rotate at the residencies at my core site because they’re inundated with OOS rotators.
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Honestly if I had the stats for it I would have stayed home for sure. If I manage to match it will be because of my auditions though, no doubt. I regret nothing.
 
Lawpy said:
But what's the point of the EM recommendations? Safe to say that they don't mean anything at all and many EM applicants just handicapped themselves following the guidelines? Like what are EM programs even doing?
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I feel like part of the issue is that there are probably too many EM programs. Plastics did a similar but even more strict thing (only home sub-is and 1 away allowed for students without a home program), and from what I can tell from talking to people basically everybody has followed those rules.
 
Spectreman said:
Honestly if I had the stats for it I would have stayed home for sure. If I manage to match it will be because of my auditions though, no doubt. I regret nothing.
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Have you ever thought maybe you did not gotten interviews elsewhere because you did not follow the rules? Idt it is the case...but for my specialties, some PDs straight up said apps will look unfavorably if you don’t follow it.
 
frenchyn said:
Have you ever thought maybe you did not gotten interviews elsewhere because you did not follow the rules? Idt it is the case...but for my specialties, some PDs straight up said apps will look unfavorably if you don’t follow it.
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Not the case for surgery in my experience this cycle. I did auditions and I also have forced myself to do virtually nothing socially and essentially quarantined myself when not at a hospital. Like I said back in April and May on a different thread it’s possible to maximize your opportunities to match while also being cautious. Hoping it works out for the both of us @Spectreman!

Also, the APDS never set a limit to auditions so “didn’t follow the rules” isn’t applicable.
 
frenchyn said:
Have you ever thought maybe you did not gotten interviews elsewhere because you did not follow the rules? Idt it is the case...but for my specialties, some PDs straight up said apps will look unfavorably if you don’t follow it.
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Honestly I don’t see how programs would know, they only have transcripts through end of 3rd year. It’s my mediocre stats (225/231 508/639) keeping me below 10 interviews I think. Especially that Step 2 fiasco. Only people I know getting solid IIs with lower stats is my class president and a couple people with crazy research careers prior to med school.
 
Spectreman said:
Honestly I don’t see how programs would know, they only have transcripts through end of 3rd year. It’s my mediocre stats (225/231 508/639) keeping me below 10 interviews I think. Especially that Step 2 fiasco. Only people I know getting solid IIs with lower stats is my class president and a couple people with crazy research careers prior to med school.
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still glad i had the option to not send my transcripts past my first two M4 rotations lol
I had a pass/near fail in an audition FM rotation after it went out.... didnt apply to that program obviously
 
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Hey guys what's the best resource that shows the correct PGY1 class sizes? FREIDA and Residency Explorer doesn't always match up
 
Spectreman said:
Honestly I don’t see how programs would know, they only have transcripts through end of 3rd year. It’s my mediocre stats (225/231 508/639) keeping me below 10 interviews I think. Especially that Step 2 fiasco. Only people I know getting solid IIs with lower stats is my class president and a couple people with crazy research careers prior to med school.
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How do you know they only see until your 3rd year? I try to look at my unofficial transcript and it shows all the classes up to May I am registered for. Also if you get letters from where you rotated...
 
frenchyn said:
How do you know they only see until your 3rd year? I try to look at my unofficial transcript and it shows all the classes up to May I am registered for. Also if you get letters from where you rotated...
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At my school we were told explicitly only rotation months 1-14 are on the transcript sent to programs.

General Surgery was different. There weren’t any definitive policies recommendations made and a lot of the community programs still took rotators.
 
Same with my school. They specifically told us that 4th year grades aren't sent
 
Banned
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I can’t. I’m busy serving my country like I’ve been doing for the last 8 years.
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This actually makes your "other countries are so much better than the US!!!" sentiment much more disturbing. How can I support the troops knowing people like you are among their ranks?

It's like cheering for a sports team when the players all think the team sucks and wish they were on another team. My response would be the same: "leave then".

This is the greatest country on Earth, and it's not even close. It's also the greatest country to practice medicine in, and that is even less close. Hence why there is a bloodbath of like 3x the amount of foreign applicants vs US applicants to our Match each year.

Take your anti-American BS outta here and REALLY take it outta my military please, thanks.
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
This actually makes your "other countries are so much better than the US!!!" sentiment much more disturbing. How can I support the troops knowing people like you are among their ranks?

It's like cheering for a sports team when the players all think the team sucks and wish they were on another team. My response would be the same: "leave then".

This is the greatest country on Earth, and it's not even close. It's also the greatest country to practice medicine in, and that is even less close. Hence why there is a bloodbath of like 3x the amount of foreign applicants vs US applicants to our Match each year.

Take your anti-American BS outta here and REALLY take it outta my military please, thanks.
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How many countries you've traveled and seen?









 
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Dr. Rafiki said:
This actually makes your "other countries are so much better than the US!!!" sentiment much more disturbing. How can I support the troops knowing people like you are among their ranks?

It's like cheering for a sports team when the players all think the team sucks and wish they were on another team. My response would be the same: "leave then".

This is the greatest country on Earth, and it's not even close. It's also the greatest country to practice medicine in, and that is even less close. Hence why there is a bloodbath of like 3x the amount of foreign applicants vs US applicants to our Match each year.

Take your anti-American BS outta here and REALLY take it outta my military please, thanks.
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Have you ever lived somewhere like Scandinavia to compare to our cities? I have. If reincarnation is real and my soul is getting recycled, I'd much rather be born to a random family in Copenhagen or Stockholm, than St. Louis or Baltimore....
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
This actually makes your "other countries are so much better than the US!!!" sentiment much more disturbing. How can I support the troops knowing people like you are among their ranks?

It's like cheering for a sports team when the players all think the team sucks and wish they were on another team. My response would be the same: "leave then".

This is the greatest country on Earth, and it's not even close. It's also the greatest country to practice medicine in, and that is even less close. Hence why there is a bloodbath of like 3x the amount of foreign applicants vs US applicants to our Match each year.

Take your anti-American BS outta here and REALLY take it outta my military please, thanks.
Click to expand...
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or extremely misguided jingoism. Either way, I’ve almost died in fire fights and have been nearly blown up by missiles for this country. I love this country so much I willingly leave my family to go risk my life for it. And I’m anti American? Lol get out of here with that garbage.

I’m not a cheerleader. I’m a player. And a player who pretends like everything the team does is perfect and nothing can be improved is not helping the team, they’re hurting it.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or extremely misguided jingoism. Either way, I’ve almost died in fire fights and have been nearly blown up by missiles for this country. I love this country so much I willingly leave my family to go risk my life for it. And I’m anti American? Lol get out of here with that garbage.

I’m not a cheerleader. I’m a player. And a player who pretends like everything the team does is perfect and nothing can be improved is not helping the team, they’re hurting it.
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I hate “if you don’t like it, then LEAVE” just as much as “I had to suffer, you should too”. Shouldn’t we all be looking for areas of improvement to make things better for our generation and those who come after us? Or is that unAmerican of me somehow?
 
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Dr. Rafiki said:
...
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throwaway199 said:
...
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efle said:
...
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
...
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Oedipa Maas said:
....
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I said what I said
kraskadva said:
I started this thread for the purposes of primal screams into the abyss and neurotic worrying about ERAS.
Please take your political discussions elsewhere or I will fully support and request the mods locking this thread.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming....

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Click to expand...
 
gamerEMdoc said:
I haven’t interviewed anyone that did more than 2. I’d say 80% or more only did one. I’ve seen a ton of O-sloes, non-residency SLOEs, and subspecialty SLOEs. I can only speak to the people that applied my way and who I’ve interviewed. But the vast majority of people seemed to comply with the recommendations that I have seen.
Click to expand...

The concern then lies with many EM programs ignoring the guidelines and demanding applicants why they didn't have several SLOEs. Worse is if your program is in the minority that actually follows the guidelines.
 
Prehealth1011 said:
Just to add for fun, the bloodbath of foreign applicants to the US every year is also because statistically, it's their highest chance of ending up in an English speaking developed country. Canada is out (you need PR/Citizenship to even apply). Australia can't even guarantee residencies to the foreign kids that are in med school there. EU usually forces you to pass their language tests and the UK is only realistic if you went to school there. US is the path of least resistance for IMGs and they're well aware of it
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What happens if US suddenly requires PR/citizenship to apply? How would programs respond to this?

I don't want to be rude but there's a common speculation that poor programs usually have most IMGs/FMGs where evil PDs treat them as cheap workers. Will a citizenship/PR requirement force those programs to shut down?
 
Lawpy said:
The concern then lies with many EM programs ignoring the guidelines and demanding applicants why they didn't have several SLOEs. Worse is if your program is in the minority that actually follows the guidelines.
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How do you know this is the case? Is there proof that "many EM programs" are "ignoring the guidelines"? I think the majority of applicants limited their number of rotations. I think the majority of programs expected students to do so. People can point to outliers, but that doesn't make it a widespread reality.
 
Prehealth1011 said:
Just to add for fun, the bloodbath of foreign applicants to the US every year is also because statistically, it's their highest chance of ending up in an English speaking developed country. Canada is out (you need PR/Citizenship to even apply). Australia can't even guarantee residencies to the foreign kids that are in med school there. EU usually forces you to pass their language tests and the UK is only realistic if you went to school there. US is the path of least resistance for IMGs and they're well aware of it
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I'm guessing that the considerably higher income for physicians in the USA doesn't hurt, either
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
If I scream into the abyss because I’m stuck in traffic, does that count?
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All screams into the abyss may be accepted without context, but there is a particular flavor of anguished screaming engendered by #match21 that you have not experienced, and hopefully never will.
 
kraskadva said:
All screams into the abyss may be accepted without context, but there is a particular flavor of anguished screaming engendered by #match21 that you have not experienced, and hopefully never will.
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ok, i am sorry i am "late to the party", and as an M2, i am not tracking the issues. Do you mind me asking for a one sentence summary of whats happening?
 
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