MD & DO Co’22 ERAS Panic Thread

[Ganon]

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That's because it opens tomorrow (Sept 1st) lol

Omg I thought it was September 31 and tomorrow was October

I'm so confused my whole life is a lie this process is killing me and I'm panicking wiludfhgiwlegfuywghqfiui;

🤣

I was literally scanning through my emails going, "THEY HAVEN'T SENT ME ANY CORRESPONDENCE SINCE *AUGUST,* THIS WILL NOT STAND!"

 

[Scrubb]

So it's advantageous to submit supplemental apps by September 19 but to submit a supplemental app by then you also have to submit the main app to those programs by then? Is that what this ERAS email today is saying?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

So it's advantageous to submit supplemental apps by September 19 but to submit a supplemental app by then you also have to submit the main app to those programs by then? Is that what this ERAS email today is saying?

This confused me also, but I don't think so? I think they're just trying to say the supplemental won't be transmitted until you submit your regular app. So if you submit by the 19th but then don't submit ERAS till like October let's say, they won't get the supplemental till October.

 

[TheBigB]

Was very confused by this too. Not all programs were participating, so I thought it was optional for them already?? I'm confused by what this means.

The way it reads is that: of the participating programs (i.e., not all programs) participation in the supplemental application is optional. The wording and repeat wording is convoluted, but think it must mean that participation is optional from the applicant side now, too.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Our lives are in the hands of this system and it's so arbitrary

I've become absuredly apathetic this past month. Every attempt I've made to dodge the roadblocks keeps failing.

 

[Chelsea FC]

does it really matter if supplemental apps are optional for applicants. We know that med students being med students 90%+ would do it then not having one will reflect badly on you.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

So for peds, I have 3 peds letters now, and am getting a "chairman of pediatrics" letter from my school but I've never really interacted with this person. I start another peds rotation next weeks and wonder if I should gun for a 4th peds letter, at the expense of leaving the chairman out. 95%+ of the programs I am applying to say a chair letter is not required, but im not sure if its implied that you should have one or not.

The pro of gunning for that 4th letter is that I would have 2 LORs from my top programs, would would presumably make getting into that program much easier.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

So for peds, I have 3 peds letters now, and am getting a "chairman of pediatrics" letter from my school but I've never really interacted with this person. I start another peds rotation next weeks and wonder if I should gun for a 4th peds letter, at the expense of leaving the chairman out. 95%+ of the programs I am applying to say a chair letter is not required, but im not sure if its implied that you should have one or not.

The pro of gunning for that 4th letter is that I would have 2 LORs from my top programs, would would presumably make getting into that program much easier.

Isn't getting letters only from one specialty usually not a good idea? Does that not apply for Peds? I was under the impression that people need 1 or 2 letters from different specialty(ies) to offer different perspective(s) and to show that you are well rounded.

Edit: Although, Peds is not too competitive, so it probably doesn't matter.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Isn't getting letters only from one specialty usually not a good idea? Does that not apply for Peds? I was under the impression that people need 1 or 2 letters from a different specialty to offer a different perspective and to show that you are well rounded.

Edit: Although, Peds is not too competitive, so it probably doesn't matter.

I mean, I have letters from other specialites, but I think my peds ones are the strongest. I could put in a IM letter or two, but i believe it would be much weaker than my peds ones. I currently have two from my Sub-I and then 1 from a doc I worked very closely with for two months.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Here's the explanation of the "optional" email that went out today:

ERAS created this supplemental application. As you all know, it's an experiment -- the idea is to test new application ideas on a smaller pool of applicants / programs, and then things that are useful will be added to the standard app. Two of those new ideas are signaling, and geographic preference. For Geo preference, applicants will be able to choose up to 3 regions, or will choose no preference. Signaling has been discussed before.

When programs had the ability to sign up, we were asked to choose whether the supplemental application would be optional or required. Presumably that information would be visible to you as applicants.

Well, the NRMP reviewed all of this. I would have assumed that ERAS would have reviewed this idea with the NRMP -- perhaps they did and the NRMP was just slow to make decisions. In any case, the NRMP decided that making the supplemental app required, and then asking for geo preferences, violated the terms of the NRMP agreement for programs. Remember that programs are not supposed to ask applicants where else they have applied or are interviewing. Apparently the NRMP decided that asking for Geo Preferences was similar enough to asking where else you applied.

So, the solution was to make the supplemental app "optional" for all programs. We can't force you to complete it. Which is somewhat strange, since you could choose "no preference" (even if you had a preference) and hence this whole issue was optional anyway.

But I don't think this changes things for applicants. Even though every program will be listed as "optional", it's quite possible that programs will focus on those applicants who completed it. But some programs may not, and consider apps without the supplemental equally. I still don't know how it will affect our decisions -- can't really know until we see it, see how useful (or not) it is.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Here's the explanation of the "optional" email that went out today:

ERAS created this supplemental application. As you all know, it's an experiment -- the idea is to test new application ideas on a smaller pool of applicants / programs, and then things that are useful will be added to the standard app. Two of those new ideas are signaling, and geographic preference. For Geo preference, applicants will be able to choose up to 3 regions, or will choose no preference. Signaling has been discussed before.

When programs had the ability to sign up, we were asked to choose whether the supplemental application would be optional or required. Presumably that information would be visible to you as applicants.

Well, the NRMP reviewed all of this. I would have assumed that ERAS would have reviewed this idea with the NRMP -- perhaps they did and the NRMP was just slow to make decisions. In any case, the NRMP decided that making the supplemental app required, and then asking for geo preferences, violated the terms of the NRMP agreement for programs. Remember that programs are not supposed to ask applicants where else they have applied or are interviewing. Apparently the NRMP decided that asking for Geo Preferences was similar enough to asking where else you applied.

So, the solution was to make the supplemental app "optional" for all programs. We can't force you to complete it. Which is somewhat strange, since you could choose "no preference" (even if you had a preference) and hence this whole issue was optional anyway.

But I don't think this changes things for applicants. Even though every program will be listed as "optional", it's quite possible that programs will focus on those applicants who completed it. But some programs may not, and consider apps without the supplemental equally. I still don't know how it will affect our decisions -- can't really know until we see it, see how useful (or not) it is.

Interesting. I found out the other day one of the programs I’m applying to asks for a supplemental “why us”, only peds program I’ve seen do that, and I’m not sure how long they been doing it. They say it’s optional but I feel like it’s a waste of money to apply without it.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Here's the explanation of the "optional" email that went out today:

ERAS created this supplemental application. As you all know, it's an experiment -- the idea is to test new application ideas on a smaller pool of applicants / programs, and then things that are useful will be added to the standard app. Two of those new ideas are signaling, and geographic preference. For Geo preference, applicants will be able to choose up to 3 regions, or will choose no preference. Signaling has been discussed before.

When programs had the ability to sign up, we were asked to choose whether the supplemental application would be optional or required. Presumably that information would be visible to you as applicants.

Well, the NRMP reviewed all of this. I would have assumed that ERAS would have reviewed this idea with the NRMP -- perhaps they did and the NRMP was just slow to make decisions. In any case, the NRMP decided that making the supplemental app required, and then asking for geo preferences, violated the terms of the NRMP agreement for programs. Remember that programs are not supposed to ask applicants where else they have applied or are interviewing. Apparently the NRMP decided that asking for Geo Preferences was similar enough to asking where else you applied.

So, the solution was to make the supplemental app "optional" for all programs. We can't force you to complete it. Which is somewhat strange, since you could choose "no preference" (even if you had a preference) and hence this whole issue was optional anyway.

But I don't think this changes things for applicants. Even though every program will be listed as "optional", it's quite possible that programs will focus on those applicants who completed it. But some programs may not, and consider apps without the supplemental equally. I still don't know how it will affect our decisions -- can't really know until we see it, see how useful (or not) it is.

Thanks. NRMP should come in and scrap the idea altogether. They arent dumb, nothing is optional in this application cycle. If there is an extra step to be taken almost all applicants will try and do it. Also programs will use whatever metric available to them to screen applicants etc. SO this whole optional thing seems like a BS. Just say its mandatory or get rid of it.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Oof. The 5 meaningful experiences thing is rough. I don't want to regurgitate what's already on ERAS but obviously if I found it important I put it on ERAS already.....I have no idea what to write.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

they should be what's already on ERAS. And you don't need to list 5 - the idea is to highlight what you think is important for us to know.

 

[Ganon]

they should be what's already on ERAS. And you don't need to list 5 - the idea is to highlight what you think is important for us to know.

Why the redundancy? I've only included highlights in my ERAS (not talking about the missions trip I did years ago, or little hospital improvement awards etc.), am I supposed to be bloating my ERAS with *everything* and then only using highlights for the supplemental?

 

[Lawpy]

is ERAS/residency match becoming the new med school admissions with secondaries, casper and other junk?

 

[Ganon]

is ERAS/residency match becoming the new med school admissions with secondaries, casper and other junk?

The "signals" really boil down to formalized love notes, and it really bothers me.
The cottage industry of residency application is going to have a field day with this if it stays.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

So, if I select 2 geographic regions as a preference, each region will only see that I selected their region and not the other? So like Midwest and NE let's say. Midwest programs would just see a Midwest preference, and NE a NE one?

 

[Ganon]

So, if I select 2 geographic regions as a preference, each region will only see that I selected their region and not the other? So like Midwest and NE let's say. Midwest programs would just see a Midwest preference, and NE a NE one?

I believe that is correct!

My problem is that I have like 5 regions I'm interested in... Spread out family. Trying to decide if saying "no preference" is better, or just picking 3

 

[fldoctorgirl]

View attachment 342899
I believe that is correct!

My problem is that I have like 5 regions I'm interested in... Spread out family. Trying to decide if saying "no preference" is better, or just picking 3

I would probably pick 3? Also, I'm not sure what to put for the explanation. I'm choosing a region for one specific state, so I don't want to put that as the reason and then have the rest of the programs in that region be like "oh ok". So I thought of maybe writing "want to be as close to home as possible", but I feel like that basically gives the same vibe? So I'm like....should I just leave the explanation part blank. Ahhhhh. So much unknown.

 

[BeroPR]

Should I apply to programs that rejected my away rotations? (Neurology)

 

[Deecee2DO]

Dudes and dudettes-this supplemental application is a game of chess. I like its intentions but dang I don't want to put the wrong answers and have my top programs be like nahh we don't want him now

 

[Ganon]

Dudes and dudettes-this supplemental application is a game of chess. I like its intentions but dang I don't want to put the wrong answers and have my top programs be like nahh we don't want him now

My home program PD explicitly told me that I should be signaling my home program.
That is DIRECTLY contrary to the instructions. They are So, SO clear that I should not use a signal for that.

So imagine the spot I'm in.

This and dozens of other fresh variables are in store for us. LOL.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Reminder that not all Internal med programs (categorical/prelim) are participating in the supplemental application, here is the list that are:

Internal medicine programs participating in the supplemental ERAS® application

Find program websites for information about whether they are requiring or recommending applicants complete the supplemental ERAS application this season.

students-residents.aamc.org

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My home program PD explicitly told me that I should be signaling my home program.
That is DIRECTLY contrary to the instructions. They are So, SO clear that I should not use a signal for that.

So imagine the spot I'm in.

This and dozens of other fresh variables are in store for us. LOL.

What fresh hell is this

 

[deleted1081396]

My home program PD explicitly told me that I should be signaling my home program.
That is DIRECTLY contrary to the instructions. They are So, SO clear that I should not use a signal for that.

So imagine the spot I'm in.

This and dozens of other fresh variables are in store for us. LOL.

So so so SO happy neurology is not doing this crap before I graduate...

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Why the redundancy? I've only included highlights in my ERAS (not talking about the missions trip I did years ago, or little hospital improvement awards etc.), am I supposed to be bloating my ERAS with *everything* and then only using highlights for the supplemental?

I think the idea is that apps are full of fluff. Most apps have 15+ experiences listed. This way, you pick the small number of things that are really important, and then we can focus on them when reviewing your app.

Should I apply to programs that rejected my away rotations? (Neurology)

In many places the people who manage student rotations are different from those who manage residents, and I expect there are lots of reasons your away might be rejected that has nothing to do with the quality of your application.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

@NotAProgDirector sorry for all of the questions, I know this is as new to you as it is to us. If we're picking a demographic region of preference, do you think it's necessary to fill in the explanation section, or leave that blank? I am nervous about writing "I want to go home" or something along those lines and then turning off any other program in that region. But then I feel like I may be reading too much into things.

 

[Ganon]

I'm not signaling my home program.

Word on the street is that they often send invites in the first week of October. The signals won't go out until the SECOND week of October... So I'm hoping by the time signals are a thing I already have an interview booked.

I don't know how many Ds this chess is but I feel like we are at least up to 4 or 5

 

[Ganon]

@NotAProgDirector sorry for all of the questions, I know this is as new to you as it is to us. If we're picking a demographic region of preference, do you think it's necessary to fill in the explanation section, or leave that blank? I am nervous about writing "I want to go home" or something along those lines and then turning off any other program in that region. But then I feel like I may be reading too much into things.

I had the same concern. Decided to just mention the family.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I'm not signaling my home program.

Word on the street is that they often send invites in the first week of October. The signals won't go out until the SECOND week of October... So I'm hoping by the time signals are a thing I already have an interview booked.

I don't know how many Ds this chess is but I feel like we are at least up to 4 or 5

Signals will go out September 29th if you submit the supplemental before September 19th.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Signals will go out September 29th if you submit the supplemental before September 19th.

Also how are we supposed to signal programs we know nothing about yet (for the most part). We havent even interviewed yet so like how are we supposed to have a “favorite” program other than Name and location thats not really good enough for me to signal lol

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Also how are we supposed to signal programs we know nothing about yet (for the most part). We havent even interviewed yet so like how are we supposed to have a “favorite” program other than Name and location thats not really good enough for me to signal lol

I mean you don't have to signal if you don't want to. Signal just means you want to demonstrate interest in a particular program...it doesn't have to be your favorite. It's not like submitting your rank list.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Also how are we supposed to signal programs we know nothing about yet (for the most part). We havent even interviewed yet so like how are we supposed to have a “favorite” program other than Name and location thats not really good enough for me to signal lol

So you’re signaling programs before you even interview there? That seems backwards. Although I guess you’d signal the programs you did aways at. But then, you did an away there and then applied there. So obviously you’re interested. The whole thing seems kind of silly.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

So you’re signaling programs before you even interview there? That seems backwards. Although I guess you’d signal the programs you did aways at. But then, you did an away there and then applied there. So obviously you’re interested. The whole thing seems kind of silly.

Actually, the official guidelines say you shouldn't signal a program you did an away at, because obviously you showed interest by doing the away there. Although I've seen several programs state on their website that "lots of people do aways here, we don't remember you, signal us". The point of signaling is if there is a program you are really interested in, this is a way to demonstrate that pre-interview and hopefully boost your chances. ENT did this last year and I think they said something like there was a 60% greater chance of getting an interview at a program you signaled?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Although I've seen several programs state on their website that "lots of people do aways here, we don't remember you, signal us".

Right and this is why it’s silly.

 

[Ganon]

Signals will go out September 29th if you submit the supplemental before September 19th.

That's only if you submit the Supplemental *and* the actual application before the 19th, though, right?

 

[Deecee2DO]

So you’re signaling programs before you even interview there? That seems backwards. Although I guess you’d signal the programs you did aways at. But then, you did an away there and then applied there. So obviously you’re interested. The whole thing seems kind of silly.

Yes exactly which i find confusing

 

[Lawpy]

It's insane programs and ERAS are taking such a complicated route for a problem where a very simple and effective solution exists. This is further worsened by the fact we have programs doing both in person and virtual interviews. This cycle is going to be interesting when compared to last year

 

[Ganon]

If there was consistency and simplicity involved in this, it might be helpful, but as it stands all of these new variables are only going to cause us to blast out more applications and hoard more interviews.
I know it isn't *that* complicated, but when you have programs wanting to do their own thing with regards to expecting signaling for home and aways etc. it just muddies the water too much.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

That's only if you submit the Supplemental *and* the actual application before the 19th, though, right?

I think you can submit the supplemental application before your ERAS application.

 

[Ganon]

I think you can submit the supplemental application before your ERAS application.

Okay, thanks! That helps. I'll be sure to have it done early so my signals are sent asap:

 

[fldoctorgirl]

That's only if you submit the Supplemental *and* the actual application before the 19th, though, right?

I don't think so. My understanding is that if you submit the supplemental by the 19th, it'll go out with your ERAS app on the 29th. If you submit after the 19th, it'll go out in October even if you submit ERAS the 29th.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Should I even bother applying to prelims in regions that I'm not signaling?

Seems like only 10 IM prelim programs are participating to the supplemental application thing. So you should be fine I think.

Source: Internal medicine programs participating in the supplemental ERAS application

 

[Scrubb]

Seems like only 10 IM prelim programs are participating to the supplemental application thing. So you should be fine I think.

Source: Internal medicine programs participating in the supplemental ERAS application

There's 185 participating my dude. Change the "Preliminary" option to Yes and the "Categorical" to All. You selected the prelim programs that don't have a categorical at the same program.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

There's 185 participating my dude. Change the "Preliminary" option to Yes and the "Categorical" to All. You selected the prelim programs that don't have a categorical at the same program.

Oh ****, I completely missed that. Dang it! I was just starting to think that maybe I can actually apply to prelims. Well, I guess I'm still sticking to categorical.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

@NotAProgDirector sorry for all of the questions, I know this is as new to you as it is to us. If we're picking a demographic region of preference, do you think it's necessary to fill in the explanation section, or leave that blank? I am nervous about writing "I want to go home" or something along those lines and then turning off any other program in that region. But then I feel like I may be reading too much into things.

I don't really have any advice. No one knows how anyone's going to use the info. Leaving it blank is probably fine. Being more specific might help for programs in that specific area, and might hurt for other states. Maybe.

Also how are we supposed to signal programs we know nothing about yet (for the most part). We havent even interviewed yet so like how are we supposed to have a “favorite” program other than Name and location thats not really good enough for me to signal lol

So you’re signaling programs before you even interview there? That seems backwards. Although I guess you’d signal the programs you did aways at. But then, you did an away there and then applied there. So obviously you’re interested. The whole thing seems kind of silly.

Yes. Signals are "high interest in an interview". As already mentioned, theoretically you're not supposed to need to signal places that already know you (aways, home program) but programs can do whatever they want.

Should I even bother applying to prelims in regions that I'm not signaling?

Unknown how impactful signaling will be. In the ENT world, people did get interviews from programs they didn't signal. Also, popular programs got the majority of signals, hence signals to less popular programs might be more "powerful". Maybe.

 

[Ganon]

To any PDs reading this: If you get an application from me I am highly interested in interviewing at your fine establishment, which is why I paid to apply there 😉

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

To any PDs reading this: If you get an application from me I am highly interested in interviewing at your fine establishment, which is why I paid to apply there 😉

For real. Like when we’re applying to med school, almost everyone says LOIs are kind of useless because if you’ve applied there, obviously you’re interested. Now for some reason it’s not enough for residency lol.

 

[Ganon]

For real. Like when we’re applying to med school, almost everyone says LOIs are kind of useless because if you’ve applied there, obviously you’re interested. Now for some reason it’s not enough for residency lol.

Look, they knew we are interested but are we SUPER SECRET DOUBLE TROUBLE EXTRA interested?!