Columbia...is it really bad?

[Audio]

I've seen a couple comments on SDN that have hinted that Columbia is not a great dental school. This surprises me because up here in Toronto, Columbia is known to be one of the better universities overall in the states. Is Columbia really that bad?

Also, what kind of grades are required. I have a 3.67 GPA and would love to go there. Of course it all depends on my DAT. I had always thought that Columbia would be my first choice but am now re-thinking.

Also, what kind of stats does a school like UPenn need. How 'bout Harvard?

What are the better schools that I have a shot at with my GPA.

Just to note, I have research, volunteer work (in Africa), and other extra currics at university. Oh yeah, and I'm Canadian so that makes a huge difference in my application.

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[mvs04]

apply to wherever you feel like, there's no "set" minimum stats needed for schools (so long as yours are reasonable).... they look at your overall application.

every dental school will give you a solid education, enough to become a dentist, your experience at the school is what you make of it... just apply to schools that catches your fancy.

Remember what a big deal applying and choosing a college was? and once you got there, did it all matter?

 

[Audio]

Good point. I guess I just want to make sure that certain schools give me my money's worth. Tuition for university and dental school is totally different!

 

[gundam]

I've seen a couple comments on SDN that have hinted that Columbia is not a great dental school. This surprises me because up here in Toronto, Columbia is known to be one of the better universities overall in the states. Is Columbia really that bad?

Also, what kind of grades are required. I have a 3.67 GPA and would love to go there. Of course it all depends on my DAT. I had always thought that Columbia would be my first choice but am now re-thinking.

Also, what kind of stats does a school like UPenn need. How 'bout Harvard?

What are the better schools that I have a shot at with my GPA.

Just to note, I have research, volunteer work (in Africa), and other extra currics at university. Oh yeah, and I'm Canadian so that makes a huge difference in my application.

This is what I heard from talking to many people. The reputation of a University's undergraduate program does not equal to the graduate program.
Yes. Columbia might have a wonderful wonderful undergraduate program but not dental school. My 2 cents.

 

[nnjh]

I've seen a couple comments on SDN that have hinted that Columbia is not a great dental school. This surprises me because up here in Toronto, Columbia is known to be one of the better universities overall in the states. Is Columbia really that bad?

Also, what kind of grades are required. I have a 3.67 GPA and would love to go there. Of course it all depends on my DAT. I had always thought that Columbia would be my first choice but am now re-thinking.

Also, what kind of stats does a school like UPenn need. How 'bout Harvard?

What are the better schools that I have a shot at with my GPA.

Just to note, I have research, volunteer work (in Africa), and other extra currics at university. Oh yeah, and I'm Canadian so that makes a huge difference in my application.

And if you've been paying attention both of those comments were made by "Dr. Badvibes". Dude look at Columbia stats (dat/gpa/undergrad attended), and ask yourself if ppl including myself came here b/c we couldn't get into schools like temple.

 

[dentist_to_be?]

I am also two minds about Columbia...

My opinion is based on what I saw there:

1. The dental school is squeezed into the medical school. Everything is crammed,

2. the dental students themselves are found amongst med students. They share classes and exams, which sucks (as one student told me) because the med students have more time to study for the exams, so the dental kids dont do as well. The dental kids are in school all day, but the med students finish early. However, the student did tell me that the bell curve the dental students marks...

3. The clinics arent as nice as other schools

4. They do not have independent study breaks in their schedules, unlike other schools... you are in school from morning to night everyday

Overall.. the quality of the school doesnt stand out when I visited

... however you will be worked really hard the first two years, thus, you will do better on the boards.

You should apply to Columbia, but my philosophy is seeing is believing... you have to see it, before you can evaluate, and that goes with any school.

 

[TaliaTN]

Doesn't Columbia have a very large class size? I could be wrong, but I think it was like 250 or so?? Can you say take a number?

 

[v&andy_yankee]

nyu:250ish students
columbia:75 students

question for you all wondering about columbia: if it is such a terrible school, why are there so many topics/discussions about it? why doesn't it just drop off into oblivion?

and, don't get all your facts from SDN. there are a lot of opinionated people (both pro and con columbia). i would say visit their website, call their office, visit the school, heck, even ask your dentist. but don't let this website be your sole source of info about ANY school.

 

[snoosnoo]

Some schools smush their med and dent students together like Columbia, other dont. It depends on if you can "handle" it. I will admit, that fact is annoying, but it shouldnt hinder anyone. After all, anyone who thinks dent school is easy is lieing to themselves. First two years are going to be tough no matter where you go.

Another draw back would be the lack of clinicals compared to other schools. But you look at their specialty programs and how good your chances are going from Columbia Dent school to Columbia's Specialty programs...might well make it worth your while. They have all the specialty programs in house and then some. (suppose to be where you get all your clinical exposure)

Personally i was truly impressed with how open and honest Dr. McManus was with us. He's the Dean of Admissions and didnt B.S. us. It helped to set a positive tone in my mind, something i havent seen anywhere else. Plus living in NYC is a draw for me.

Dent school is dent school, only thing the "name of the school" can help you out in is advertising your future dental practice. Just think about, who would people (future patients) want to see? Someone who graduated harvard or...somewhere else? (negating the cost differences if any)

Just my 2 cents

 

[paolorossifan]

I'm from Toronto, and I checked out columbia. I understand what you're saying. When I told people i was interviewing at columbia they were really impressed and so was I to be honest. Columbia has a pretty good dental school, and you'd get a good education there. But the simple and overwhelming truth is this: columbia really isn't that hard to get into. And for that reason, I think a lot of people put it down. The ivy league mystique about the randomness of acceptance doesn't apply there. I remember talking to a 3rd yr on my interview day; he was from Brampton i think and he turned down UofToronto for Columbia. Looking back, i think the guy made an enormous mistake. I think he might've been caught up in the "ivy league" thing and didn't realize that UToronto dentistry is much more of an accomplishment than columbia.

Actually friend, Columbia just as or harder to get into than UT. Just b/c you got an interview doesn't make it Temple or something. I dont know why UT UG or UT DS have any rep at all. BC schools are the hardest to get into and most recognized around the world.

For those of you wondering whether Columbia is a good school: decide for yourself. We will be biased since we are going there and guys like this will be the opposite since they were not so lucky. A good undergrad translates into a good every other school affiliated with it. No other great undegrad has thier other schools any less in standard. Columbia is no different. When we graduate and mingle as professionals the Columbia kids always stand out against any Canadian and most American schools(equal to Harvard, Penn, UCONN etc). We and you will be well educated.

 

[dentist_to_be?]

Actually friend, Columbia just as or harder to get into than UT. Just b/c you got an interview doesn't make it Temple or something. I dont know why UT UG or UT DS have any rep at all. BC schools are the hardest to get into and most recognized around the world.

For those of you wondering whether Columbia is a good school: decide for yourself. We will be biased since we are going there and guys like this will be the opposite since they were not so lucky. A good undergrad translates into a good every other school affiliated with it. No other great undegrad has thier other schools any less in standard. Columbia is no different. When we graduate and mingle as professionals the Columbia kids always stand out against any Canadian and most American schools(equal to Harvard, Penn, UCONN etc). We and you will be well educated.

Paolorossifan... you always focus on COlumbia's OVERALL reputation, never on the reputation of its Dental school...

Also my friend, Uft avg entering is 3.6-3.8, Columibas is 3.4... it is definitely easier to get into Columbia. Look on the websites of both schools, if you dont believe me

Lastly, My Dad is in public health arena, he asked at a conference, where different health care professionals from the nation met, about Columbia... and a lot of people said although its UNDERGRAD reputation is good, its dental isnt as great. He was asking because I was debating between Columbia and Maryland... because my only reason for choosing Columbia over Maryland would be its name, and in the dental world, it isnt better in reputation

Anywas, this shouldnt discourage anyone from applying/going to Columbia, I strongly believe you have to go to the school before you can tell if it is the right choice for you or not. But you shouldnt just assume Columbia is a good school because of what others think... especially in Canada, where they only know of the ivy schools, and havent heard much about other schools. Just like Americans will only know of the big name Canadian schools, not realizing their are others that might be better for particular programs. For instance, Im sure many americans have heard of utoronto and mcgill, but probably dont know that waterloo is a really good school for computer science/computer engineering.

 

[paolorossifan]

Also my friend, Uft avg entering is 3.6-3.8, Columibas is 3.4... it is definitely easier to get into Columbia. Look on the websites of both schools, if you dont believe me

Lastly, My Dad is in public health arena, he asked at a conference, where different health care professionals from the nation met, about Columbia... and a lot of people said although its UNDERGRAD reputation is good, its dental isnt as great.

!. Those stats are slightly misleading. About 450-500 students apply for 73 positons at a school highly prefering Ont. residents (and rightly so thanks to govt support). On the the other hand 1100-1200 apply for 75 places at Columbia. Remeber, Canadian schools have few spaces and still thier DAT avgs.(incl UT) are a little lower than Columbia's. UT is difficult to enter for reasons way different from Columbia. The all important statistics are DAT avgs, they standardize everything.

2. With all do respect to your father, he should have also asked what dental school those respondants attended. Recall the unfortunate effects of jelousy. But the fact your old man did that is commendable, getting involved with his pride and joys future is great support .

 

[v&andy_yankee]

Also my friend, Uft avg entering is 3.6-3.8, Columibas is 3.4... it is definitely easier to get into Columbia. Look on the websites of both schools, if you dont believe me

i would agree with you if you had compared DAT scores rather than GPA. comparing GPAs can be misleading--a lot of schools may have a higher mean GPA because the enrolles are mainly graduates of state schools (or somewhere where they inflate GPAs). ie, U of Mississippi has a mean GAP of 3.7, much higher than Columbia or UPenn or any of the Cali schools. But its DAT average is only an 18, which is lower than all of those schools. So you can't compare mean GPAs to determine how competitive it will be to get into a school--look at the DATs.

 

[onetoothleft]

i would agree with you if you had compared DAT scores rather than GPA. comparing GPAs can be misleading--a lot of schools may have a higher mean GPA because the enrolles are mainly graduates of state schools (or somewhere where they inflate GPAs). ie, U of Mississippi has a mean GPA of 3.7, much higher than Columbia or UPenn or any of the Cali schools. But its DAT average is only an 18, which is lower than all of those schools. So you can't compare mean GPAs to determine how competitive it will be to get into a school--look at the DATs.

I agree. Every school has a different philosophy of how to give out grades. Some schools give out lots of A's only to have their students achieve mediocre scores on the DAT. The DAT is standardized and puts everyone on the same boat--therefore it is a better measure of Aptitude.

I mean, we all know how college is. Most of us took our pre-reqs with gunner pre-meds who complain and complain until the professor makes their B+ into an A- or whatever. (I should know--I used to teach one of those classes).

That being said, the descrepancy of these schools is also an indication of what the Admissions committee deems most important. At Mississippi, the Adcom obviously thinks that GPA is the best measure of success and therefore accepts kids with a high GPA. Columbia values DAT scores as you can see from it's 21 avg. DAT, but only 3.4 avg. GPA.

 

[drat]

Are you for real man? Seems like everyone from columbia on SDN has a serious chip on their shoulder. Man, I can assure you that nobody cares about columbia.

Don't sweat it, Mithridates -- I'm convinced Columbia pays Paolorossifan to be a Columbian zealot.

 

[onetoothleft]

well, the DAT average at uoft is lower because they don't place that much weight on it. As they shouldn't - the DAT really is a joke test. It's nothing compared to the MCAT. And those 450-500 students - i would guess that all but a few have a GPA of 3.5 or greater. Just because most people know there's no chance with a GPA lower than that - says so on UofT's website.

I feel I must clarify this. The DAT is not a "joke" test. It is a very good test in my opinion-one which has years of research behind it to make it a very good indicator on how well a student will do in dental school. I can assure you that the ADA does not revere the DAT as a joke test. In addition, many of us have taken the MCAT as well. While it is more difficult, like the DAT it is a comparison between you and each student that takes it that year, so the diffuculty of the test is irrelevant, a comparison is a comparison.

Also let us take a closer look at those numbers. A 18 dat in the PAT section for instance means that you could miss about 30 questions out of 90. That is a whole third. To get just two points highter (20) you must only miss 10. All of the sections are bell curved like this. It is intended to separate the men from the boys. I think it is very remarkable that Columbia has an average DAT of 21, which is about 96%-ile. That is very high in my opinion. I am sure anyone that got that score could get a great score on the MCAT as well.

Are you for real man? Seems like everyone from columbia on SDN has a serious chip on their shoulder. Man, I can assure you that nobody cares about columbia.

I think that many people care about columbia. Do a search. It is by far the most talked about school on SDN. If you search the "where do you want to go threads" or "where are you applying" threads, columbia will almost always have the highest number of SDN votes.

 

[paolorossifan]

Don't sweat it, Mithridates -- I'm convinced Columbia pays Paolorossifan to be a Columbian zealot.

Thats a good one man! I get tutition plus first class plane trips from
Newark to BC.

 

[MrBenny]

well, the DAT average at uoft is lower because they don't place that much weight on it. As they shouldn't - the DAT really is a joke test. It's nothing compared to the MCAT. And those 450-500 students - i would guess that all but a few have a GPA of 3.5 or greater. Just because most people know there's no chance with a GPA lower than that - says so on UofT's website.



Are you for real man? Seems like everyone from columbia on SDN has a serious chip on their shoulder. Man, I can assure you that nobody cares about columbia.

Chip on our shoulder? That's a good one. Why don't you take a look at the name of this thread, as well as others in the past. You guys come on here and attack us and our school, and when we try to defend it (as we should), you claim we have a chip on our shoulder. haha.. what a freaking joke.

 

[MrBenny]

Dude, there's a lot of different ways to defend and support your school. Passing off people's not-so-positive opinions as jealosy is weak, weak, weak. So weak in fact, that the only reason i can imagine paolorossifan saying that is if he did have a chip on his shoulder. You supporting him proves that it applies to a lot of you columbia students.

The reason Columbia gets so much talk on SDN is because of the strength of Columbia's undergrad, medical, law, hell pretty much everything. I never said Columbia was a bad school: i think its dental school is really great actually. I just think that there quite a few better schools to invest your time and money.

I am not supporting paolo's statement. in fact, my opinion has differed from his many times. but one thing i share with him is that he's proud of his school, and we both believe in the strength of columbia's program. You've been fair in your statements regarding columbia's entrance requirements, and I apologize for my last post being so confrontational.

I've just gotten pissed reading these columbia threads and took my anger out at the wrong time.

someone said it on this thread and its true: just pick the school you feel the best vibe with. and once you've done that, respect others choices, and for god's sake, don't criticize their choice and their school.

 

[v&andy_yankee]

what i don't get is why ppl won't just stop dissing other ppl's school. if the school ain't for you, then you're obviously not going there...but is it really right to go and then diss it ("oh it's not that hard to get into anyhoo" and "it isn't worth it for that price" blahblah). if you don't like the school or think it isn't worth your money, hurray for you. but how do you think it feels to be a CU student and hearing all of these attacks at your school? why don't you pick on another school instead of CU all the time? how would you feel if someone told you that your school isn't worth it, when you have worked your a$s off to get in? how would you feel if someone told you that all the ppl in the school you're about to attend all have a chip on their shoulder, insinuating that you do too?

a little consideration ppl, that's all i ask.

and if i really did have a chip on my shoulder, maybe i should make this my sigline, because it seems like some ppl can easily pass judgement on others just by which school they go to:
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I f*ck like you wanna f*ck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.

 

[onetoothleft]

what i don't get is why ppl won't just stop dissing other ppl's school. if the school ain't for you, then you're obviously not going there...but is it really right to go and then diss it ("oh it's not that hard to get into anyhoo" and "it isn't worth it for that price" blahblah). if you don't like the school or think it isn't worth your money, hurray for you. but how do you think it feels to be a CU student and hearing all of these attacks at your school? why don't you pick on another school instead of CU all the time? how would you feel if someone told you that your school isn't worth it, when you have worked your a$s off to get in? how would you feel if someone told you that all the ppl in the school you're about to attend all have a chip on their shoulder, insinuating that you do too?

a little consideration ppl, that's all i ask.

and if i really did have a chip on my shoulder, maybe i should make this my sigline, because it seems like some ppl can easily pass judgement on others just by which school they go to:
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I f*ck like you wanna f*ck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.

yeah!

 

[uclaguy]

Why does everyone try to bag on Columbia so much?

I personally consider Columbia to have a good package overall. I have been admitted to UCONN, USC, Boston, NYU and UCLA to name a few, but I chose Columbia for a number of reasons. Here are some of my reasons and this may help you in your selection of a dental school:

1. Dr. McMannus is an outright honest man about his school. He told us at our interview that most people consider Harvard as a better school (for those who specialize). However, he showed us statistics of how many people specialize from Columbia and it was quite impressive. (I know you all have your reasons to refute him b/c of GPRs however there are still a huge number of people who get wonderful specialities).

2. The fact that you take classes with the Medical School. Columbia Medical School is known to have a top 10 medical school. If you are taking the same classes as them that means you are getting just as good of an education. You may consider taking classes with medical students a disadvantage but I consider it an advantage (as the Board scores of Columbia show).

3. Columbia has a reputation that sells your practice. I don't care how much SDN people think Columbia dent is not highly regarded...the school in general is regarded as a TOP university close to the level of Harvard. This will sell your practice. If I were a patient I would rather go to a dentist who has gone to Columbia rather than some no name school.

4. Columbia is in New York City. Many of you are in your 20s and New York is an awesome place to be at that age. Though you will be studying a lot, there are still nights you will want to go out and have fun. This is a major readon why I didnt attend UCONN. I do not want to have to worry about going a 100 miles to some club when I can take a 15 minute subway ride to the middle of NYC.

To those of you who love to hate on Columbia...I say just GET A LIFE especially MrBadVibes.

If you would like to learn more about Columbia send me a Personal Message and I will try to help you out as much as possible.

 

[gundam]

Why does everyone try to bag on Columbia so much?

Because some people in Columbia started to advertise themselves as a top school, and sadly, it's not.

"I personally consider Columbia to have a good package overall. I have been admitted to UCONN, USC, Boston, NYU and UCLA to name a few, but I chose Columbia for a number of reasons. Here are some of my reasons and this may help you in your selection of a dental school:"

You can choose whatever school you go to, UCLAguy, but I say you should go to UCLA instead of Columbia due to the cheaper tuition and many other factors. You can never beat UCLA and UCSF!

"1. Dr. McMannus is an outright honest man about his school. He told us at our interview that most people consider Harvard as a better school (for those who specialize). However, he showed us statistics of how many people specialize from Columbia and it was quite impressive. (I know you all have your reasons to refute him b/c of GPRs however there are still a huge number of people who get wonderful specialities). "

Dr. McManus's numbers only show a number of people getting into specialties, but it didn't show you the percentage of them. Don't get fooled by that. Do a search on SDN, many many other schools have a higher percentage of applicants getting into Ortho and other specialties. Eg, Harvard 100%(7/7), nova 100%(7/7), temple 85%(6/7), Michigan 85% (6/7), and Columbia has a poor less than 50% (7/15). How can Columbia beat Harvard, are you crazy?

"2. The fact that you take classes with the Medical School. Columbia Medical School is known to have a top 10 medical school. If you are taking the same classes as them that means you are getting just as good of an education. You may consider taking classes with medical students a disadvantage but I consider it an advantage (as the Board scores of Columbia show). "

Columbia is only 5th on board I. The fact that you take classes with a good bunch of medical students only adds a huge amount of pressure on you. Dental school is already hard, and dental school is extremely hard at Columbia.

"3. Columbia has a reputation that sells your practice. I don't care how much SDN people think Columbia dent is not highly regarded...the school in general is regarded as a TOP university close to the level of Harvard. This will sell your practice. If I were a patient I would rather go to a dentist who has gone to Columbia rather than some no name school. "

I agree with you Columbia does have a good reputation in business and undergraduate, but I disagree with you that it's going to do anything to advance your dental career. To prove this, ask some graduates of Columbia, and ask some drs on dental town. I think there's a thread over there, where CU graduates show a regret tone while describing their school choice.

"4. Columbia is in New York City. Many of you are in your 20s and New York is an awesome place to be at that age. Though you will be studying a lot, there are still nights you will want to go out and have fun. This is a major readon why I didnt attend UCONN. I do not want to have to worry about going a 100 miles to some club when I can take a 15 minute subway ride to the middle of NYC. "

NY is a filthy city, crowdy and cold. You can have fun in NYC clubs, but when you have that many classes, and many other craps to take care of in Columbia. I'm sorry man, you cannot have fun AT ALL. The first two years is hell, and it's common knowledge about Columbia. It gets better in your third and forth year, but not much.

"To those of you who love to hate on Columbia...I say just GET A LIFE especially MrBadVibes. "

You should get a life too LOL UCLAguy, actually I hope you can, because you have virtually no life in Columbia!

"If you would like to learn more about Columbia send me a Personal Message and I will try to help you out as much as possible."

I'm not trying to bach Columbia, but when you make those stupid untrue comments about Columbia, I don't think it's fair for other SDNs to see. Nobody wants to make a false decision for four years. Regards.

 

[onetoothleft]

Columbia is only 5th on board I.

Hey gundam,

where is this from? I have been looking for a listing like this. . . where do they post the school's average board exam results?

 

[gundam]

Hey gundam,

where is this from? I have been looking for a listing like this. . . where do they post the school's average board exam results?

On the sheet that they gave you when you interviewed there.
It says Columbia was 5th in recent year.

 

[onetoothleft]

4. Columbia is in New York City. Many of you are in your 20s and New York is an awesome place to be at that age. Though you will be studying a lot, there are still nights you will want to go out and have fun. This is a major readon why I didnt attend UCONN. I do not want to have to worry about going a 100 miles to some club when I can take a 15 minute subway ride to the middle of NYC.

Congratulations on choosing Columbia!

I am glad to hear others who intend to have fun at school--It is one of the biggest factors for me too . . .

I must tell you though, it takes more like 30-40 minutes by subway to get to midtown from Washington Heights.

 

[onetoothleft]

On the sheet that they gave you when you interviewed there.
It says Columbia was 5th in recent year.

oh ok. I was curious who was #1-#4 and #6+.

 

[onetoothleft]

On the sheet that they gave you when you interviewed there.
It says Columbia was 5th in recent year.

Does anyone know of a list that has every school? Some where on the net? a previous post? A list that a SDN member has put together?

 

[MrBenny]

i would not trust any of the numbers that are thrown around on this site. if you want the correct stats, call the school and get it straight from the horse's mouth.

good post uclaguy. i have no clue what stupid, untrue comments gundam is referring to, when he replied to your post. just another hater. big whoop.

none of us columbians initiate crap about anyone else's school. so seriously, what is everyone's problem?

GO COLUMBIA. Everyone else, leave us the F*** alone.

 

[pama80]

Hi Audio:
columbia is a very interesting school because it has generated a lots pros and cons comparing to other schools, so, why don't you apply to the school and take a look at the school yourself? seeing is believing.

 

[t12kim]

Why does everyone try to bag on Columbia so much?

I personally consider Columbia to have a good package overall. I have been admitted to UCONN, USC, Boston, NYU and UCLA to name a few, but I chose Columbia for a number of reasons. Here are some of my reasons and this may help you in your selection of a dental school:

1. Dr. McMannus is an outright honest man about his school. He told us at our interview that most people consider Harvard as a better school (for those who specialize). However, he showed us statistics of how many people specialize from Columbia and it was quite impressive. (I know you all have your reasons to refute him b/c of GPRs however there are still a huge number of people who get wonderful specialities).

2. The fact that you take classes with the Medical School. Columbia Medical School is known to have a top 10 medical school. If you are taking the same classes as them that means you are getting just as good of an education. You may consider taking classes with medical students a disadvantage but I consider it an advantage (as the Board scores of Columbia show).

3. Columbia has a reputation that sells your practice. I don't care how much SDN people think Columbia dent is not highly regarded...the school in general is regarded as a TOP university close to the level of Harvard. This will sell your practice. If I were a patient I would rather go to a dentist who has gone to Columbia rather than some no name school.

4. Columbia is in New York City. Many of you are in your 20s and New York is an awesome place to be at that age. Though you will be studying a lot, there are still nights you will want to go out and have fun. This is a major readon why I didnt attend UCONN. I do not want to have to worry about going a 100 miles to some club when I can take a 15 minute subway ride to the middle of NYC.

To those of you who love to hate on Columbia...I say just GET A LIFE especially MrBadVibes.

If you would like to learn more about Columbia send me a Personal Message and I will try to help you out as much as possible.

AMEN~!

 

[harpua]

I have to agree a lot with what gundam is saying. Sure, Columbia is a good dental school. However, I do believe it gets a bad rap here because of so many students who act as if it is the best school out there.

Check out this quote from this very thread:

No other great undegrad has thier other schools any less in standard. Columbia is no different. When we graduate and mingle as professionals the Columbia kids always stand out against any Canadian and most American schools(equal to Harvard, Penn, UCONN etc). We and you will be well educated.

This is exactly what gundam was referring to when he/she talked about how the Columbia students think their school is the best. So unless you go to Columbia, Harvard, Penn, or UConn, you will be forever inferior to the graduates from these (and only these) schools? If I see a graduate from Columbia, must I bow down and say "We're not worthy!"? Where do you get off making a comment like this?

I really had nothing against Columbia as a school, but after reading some of these posts by these future Columbia students, I am very glad I didn't apply. And now it does not surprise me why so many SDNers rip on Columbia so much.

 

[MrBenny]

for those looking to apply to columbia for this upcoming cycle, or future ones, please disregard many of the things you read about our school on this site. Though the overall concept of SDN is a positive one, too much negativity has been spread about Columbia SDOS that any rational judgment of the school is impossible by reading many of these posts.

Do your own research: call the school, ask them questions. find current columbia students on this site and email them, PM them, and ask them to be straight up honest with you. Do not rely on the opinions of those on this site who don't even GO to Columbia. In fact, don't even rely on those who are going to go, but have not even started, such as myself. Everything I know about Columbia is second-hand, which it should be, since I'm not even a student yet.

Regardless, Columbia is a good school, as are many others. It will be up to you to find the differences amongst them so that you end up making the best choice for yourself.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

I think that everything that has been said in this thread so far is very good...especially the post from "dentist_2_be?", whose analysis of Columbia was exactly like mine.

To the OP, like dentist_2_be?, I was exactly in your shoes this time last year. I am from Toronto and I couldnt believe I had a shot of going to Columbia. I thought it was a dream come true....Ivy League school, New York city!!! Wow!

But I took my dental school decision as a very important one and I did as much research as possible and talked to thousands of people, and really couldnt justify going there when I had "better" options to choose from.

People always read my posts and think that Im constantly advocating for people to not goto Columbia.....but that is not true. From the beginning, I have always said to goto Columbia and see it for yourself.....dont listen to me or any other people on SDN....go there yourself....see the faciliities, talk to students....just make sure you dont talk to students like palorissfan who no matter what thinks that Columbia is the god of dental schools and nothing buy Ivy League schools compare....try to find students that will tell you the truth, and not what you wanna hear.....best bet would be to talk to practicing dentists that have been out for a few years from Columbia and see what they say.....do all of that yourself and come to your own conclusion.

The only thing I ask people to do is this.....dont automatically assume that since Columbia as a university is amazing, that there dental school is also amazing. thats the assumption that palorissfan and others make, and obviously its a very very stupid assumption to make. If you go there with the preconcieved thoughts that no matter what happens, the dental school is gonna be amazing, then you are gonna be in trouble.

For instance, during the interview, they will tell you something that 90% of their students specialize....now if you dont go in with an open mind, you will make the automatic and wrong assumption that "well obviously they have a high match rate, because Columbia is an Ivy league school".....but what they fail to tell you is that their statistic includes GPR/AEGDs, which in my mind should not be considered a speciality.

Another example is that during the interview, they will tell you that they are not ranked and that its pass/fail. But what they wont tell you is that the dean will write you letters that indicate that you graduated with "honors", "high honors", etc. In my books, that is still a form of ranking.

So basically, I say this: Just goto the dental school with a completely open mind and forget about the whole Ivy League=excellence bullcrap and analyze the school as a dental school and nothing more. If you can still honestly justify going there, then go for it.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

ok this guy is a complete fool....

But you look at their specialty programs and how good your chances are going from Columbia Dent school to Columbia's Specialty programs...might well make it worth your while. They have all the specialty programs in house and then some. (suppose to be where you get all your clinical exposure)

I think there are PLENTY of dental schools that have all the speciality programs in house....also, going to Columbia dental school will give you no clear advantage when applying to postdoc programs at Columbia.....what a silly assumption to be made

Dent school is dent school, only thing the "name of the school" can help you out in is advertising your future dental practice. Just think about, who would people (future patients) want to see? Someone who graduated harvard or...somewhere else? (negating the cost differences if any)

Just my 2 cents

HAHHAHA....I love it!!!! Im telling you that most of the people that goto these expensive name brand schools actually think that they will be somewhat more successful than others due to the name of their degree.....In the 24 years of my life I never once knew where my dentist went to school....if you are a crappy dentist who is a knob but have a Columbia degree, Ill bet the farm that your fancy degree aint gonna save ya.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

I cant believe that Mithiridates thought this guy's post was good.

3. Columbia has a reputation that sells your practice. I don't care how much SDN people think Columbia dent is not highly regarded...the school in general is regarded as a TOP university close to the level of Harvard. This will sell your practice. If I were a patient I would rather go to a dentist who has gone to Columbia rather than some no name school.

heck, now that Im more educated on this topic, if I knew that a dentist went to Columbia over another one that went to Maryland, I would pick the Maryland guy in a heartbeat!

Columbia is in New York City. Many of you are in your 20s and New York is an awesome place to be at that age. Though you will be studying a lot, there are still nights you will want to go out and have fun. This is a major readon why I didnt attend UCONN. I do not want to have to worry about going a 100 miles to some club when I can take a 15 minute subway ride to the middle of NYC.

Well, its dental school, and with Columbia and its very difficult curriculm, dont expect you to have the life in NYC that you see in the movies. And although NYC is one of my fav cities in the world, and it would be such an amazing place to be when your young, that only applies in either the movies or if you're rich.....because I dunno about you, but paying enormous rent to live in a 2X2 space, and going out to bars/clubs and paying $11 for a rum and coke is just too much.

You do realize there are plenty of other cities in the world that have young people, nightlife and fun as well, right?

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

question for you all wondering about columbia: if it is such a terrible school, why are there so many topics/discussions about it?

Alright, ill answer this question. Columbia's entrance stats are not what one would expect. They are seriously low, so that gives people with mediocre grades to have a chance to attend an Ivy League school, which is unheard of. Thats why people talk about it so much.....its like realizing, "I have a 3.3 GPA, and I can goto Columbia....wow!!! I better find out more about it".

Also, it gives opportunities for superficial people like palorissfan to brag to others and make himself feel better.

and thats why everyone talks about Columbia. Why not the same for Harvard? Well because Harvards dental school is very hard to get into and equals the reputation of all of Harvard's programs, so everyone knows they dont have a chance, but Columbia's story just isnt the same. Getting into Columbia's dental school is no where near as hard to get into Columbia's med/law/mba programs.

Just because many people talk about Columbia on SDN, doesnt mean that its because its an amazing school.....there is always more to every story

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Actually friend, Columbia just as or harder to get into than UT. Just b/c you got an interview doesn't make it Temple or something. I dont know why UT UG or UT DS have any rep at all. BC schools are the hardest to get into and most recognized around the world.

I really hope you are saying this stuff to just start crap....first of all, UofT is a billion times harder to get into than Columbia....I had absolutely no chance at UofT....the UofT adcom wouldve taken my application and pissed all over it.....that is such a no brainer. But a school's entrance requirements has no indication on the quality of its education.

However, I cant believe that you are so pro-Columbia that you have managed to convince yourself of all of these things.....its really amazing.

And about questioning UofT's rep....is there even room for debate on this? Look at the Macleans (equivalent to USnews) rankings on universities....in the medical/doctoral category, Uoft is #1 EVERY SINGLE YEAR....if you read the current article, it basically says that there is not even a point in ranking them anymore because UofT is always the clear winner. And about international reputation, UoT is so well known. Heck, my roommates in first year were from Hong Kong and they would tell me that they purposedly send out emails to their friends with their UofT email because it impresses them so much. UofT even has a convocation ceremony in Hong Kong for gods sake! And when I lived in England, I had professors actually come up to me and tell me that it was an honor to have a University of Toronto student in their class.....

One time I went to see my biochem professor in England to ask him what I should expect from his class and this is what he told me, "my class is pretty hard, and the students are smart, but its nowhere near the level of you....coming from Toronto, you will probably be my top student"....Althought I dont think this reputation is always true, it cant be disputed that UofT's repution around the world is stellar. And Im suprised that you would pick UBC as the best.....because honestly the one competition for UofT in terms of international reputation would be McGill.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Although I agree (& have already stated) that UofT's dental school is about a billion times harder to get into than columbia, I don't agree with your above point. The Macleans ranking is not like the USnews ranking. Whereas top USNews ranked schools like Harvard-princeton-yale are impossible to get into, UofT is pretty easy. Schools like McGill and Queen's have higher entrance averages. You could get into UofT with a high seventies average.

you did notice I was talking about the medical/doctoral category specifically, right? And about McGill, I know that, and thats why I said that McGill and UofT are the internationally known schools in Canada. Although UBC has a stellar rep, it doesnt compare to UofT/McGill, internationally. And anyways, who cares? It only matters if you are going into research. If I had to do undergrad again, I probably wouldnt goto UofT. Reputation doesnt get you anywhere in the med/doctoral field unless you do research

Also, the Maclean's ranking doesn't seem to take a big enough look into the quality of things related to the student - UofT class sizes are enormous, really impersonal environment-no real student centre, i've spoken to a lot of students that are miserable at the St. George campus. UofT is like Texas A&M.

Im not sure if USNews takes this into consideration as well, because Columbia's MPH program is top 5 in the country, but talking from MPH grads from Columbia, they said it was the worst education they ever got, because the lectures were so huge, the program was so impersonal, blah blah blah.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

I forgot to say that the medical-doctoral classification for ranking doesn't mean it's ranking the medical schools; it's ranking schools in general that have medical programs and strong doctoral programs.

You are absolutely right, but it is ranking the school in terms of their medical/doctoral programs and their faculty. Also, UofT is definitely easier to get into than Harvard, but are you sure its easier than Queens or McGill? I have never heard of high seventies to get into UofT.....when I applied 5 years ago, you needed to be in the 80s for your OACs to get into UofT life sciences.....

 

[paolorossifan]

Undergraduate education in Canada is overall of a extremely high standard. Most all of our UG schools can compete with the best of the US and the world.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Saying that UToronto is the top school in canada is sorta weird.

I dont think so....I personally think you saying that top schools are based on entrance requirements to be kinda weird. Did you read the Maclean's article that stated why UofT is constantly #1?? They seem to make a pretty good case.

Anyways, like I said before, who cares who is ranked 1 or 50....undergrad education means didley squat......only if one goes into research, or wants a profession where reputation matters does the school's rep matter...and if that was the case, I would choose UofT over Queens hands down, and I think that would be the consensus of 90% of the people you talk to.

And plus, Queens is in Kingston....where the hell is that!

lets get back to the topic at hand and hopefully the OP is satisfied with the responses in this thread

 

[paolorossifan]

Comparing Canadian UG universities is akin to comparing Mercdez-Benz's with BMWs, cant really go wrong with either, nor are either easy to get (into).

 

[shariq]

Well i was reading this post and i thought to put two of my cents in

First of all, i am a fourth year at NYUCD, and i do not care what people say about columbia or any school for that matter, if i could have got into Columbia i would have GONE. Period. So my post is not to bash any body who goes to columbia.

Now there are things i am going to be honest about. I have not met many GP's from columbia. What i have noticed when i have rotated with columbia students at certain hospitals, their hand skills and pt experience is at best below average.
But columbia students have probably a higher chance to specialize, certainly when comparing to NYU
So if you went to dental school to be a GP consider goingto a school like temple. If you certainly want to specialize, go to schools like harvard and columbia, and u conn where the average board scores are 90+

 

[gundam]

Now there are things i am going to be honest about. I have not met many GP's from columbia. What i have noticed when i have rotated with columbia students at certain hospitals, their hand skills and pt experience is at best below average.

I'm not a bit surprised by this comment, and I heard the same thing from my dentist. He said he's very disappointed at Columbia's basic training. It was a disaster for the patients and also for the dentist.
In addition, he told me his story for my reference. When he was a predent, he was accepted to UCSF, Columbia and Tufts. He said he didn't like the way Columbia operated at all from his interview and talking to other doctors, so he didn't even consider Columbia at all. Finally he chose Tufts over UCSF because he's in the bay area and home sick. Four years after he graduated with a top score but he chose not to specialize. His reason is that he doesnt wanna be in school no more and he likes to do everything. So now in his early 30s, he's owning three dent offices, making over half a million a year, which doubles the average income of specialists. He told me he's glad that he made the choice to go to a strong clinical school like Tufts, which enables him to make 200k the first year he got out, returned to CA and worked as an associate. He's very confident that his skill was better than any freshouts in the associate office at that time, so he was able to make a lot more than other new associate dentists. Lastly, he suggest to me not follow everybody else and be a specialist. He asked me to keep in mind that market's constantly changing. 10 years ago, nobody wants to be a specialist. Now specialty market may appear hot but nobody knows what’s gonna happen in another 10 years, eg, perio is a dying, endo is pretty much limited, ortho is definitely not the way to go because of the OEC schools’ taking over, the ortho market is going to be flooded with all the OEC orthodontists. So my conclusion is that, go to a strong clinical school and become a GP first, if you manage well you can make much more than a specialist without having to worry about any market shift. If you really, desperately want to be a specialist, become an oral surgeon but go to a school like UCSF, where you will have good clinical and good possibility to specialize, which gives you a backup plan but not dead end. That’s what I’m gonna do. Among, UCLA, Tufts and Columbia, I favor Tufts.

 

[delicious]

Dude, you could tear up any career path if you wanted. I'm pretty surprised to hear that you're so down on dental specialties. Perio is dying, endo is limited. I'd say that it's more like the roles of these professions are shifting. And there's a little confusion.

If you really, desperately want to be a specialist, become an oral surgeon but go to a school like UCSF, where you will have good clinical and good possibility to specialize...

Oral surgery? Well, by your logic, that's totally on it's way out too. Considering that a lot of periodontists are now doing implants (what some say is the lifeblood of oral surgery). Oh, but wait, , so periodontists are getting that business. Maybe perio isn't dying.

 

[gundam]

It ain't my opinion Delicious. As I pointed out, the dentist said so. I have my own thought on this. I just wanna be a good GP first and then hire specialists to work for me. If I can open up a bunch of chain offices, I could make a fortune easily.(he works 4 days a week, and the rest of the week he goes around and yell at people ) This guy is a successful GP so he might be exaggerating on the specialty part. Let me rephrase his words. Nobody knows for sure what's gonna happen for orthos. There are even sayings that Wal mart will incoporate Orthos into the super markets someday For endos, I don't mind sitting down and doing root canals all day if there's money coming in. However, I did see two endodontists got hired by the GP and working for him and making much less than the average. Like you said perios can do implants, but you don't need to be a perio to do implants, be a GP and take some CE classes then you can do implants too. Oral surgery might be the only way that garantees a good income above average because of the supply and demand. 6 years of extra training will enable you to do a lot more than any GP, but keep in mind, it's 6 years of your life.

 

[ItsGavinC]

It ain't my opinion Delicious. As I pointed out, the dentist said so. I have my own thought on this. I just wanna be a good GP first and then hire specialists to work for me. If I can open up a bunch of chain offices, I could make a fortune easily.(he works 4 days a week, and the rest of the week he goes around and yell at people ) This guy is a successful GP so he might be exaggerating on the specialty part. Let me rephrase his words. Nobody knows for sure what's gonna happen for orthos. There are even sayings that Wal mart will incoporate Orthos into the super markets someday For endos, I don't mind sitting down and doing root canals all day if there's money coming in. However, I did see two endodontists got hired by the GP and working for him and making much less than the average. Like you said perios can do implants, but you don't need to be a perio to do implants, be a GP and take some CE classes then you can do implants too. Oral surgery might be the only way that garantees a good income above average because of the supply and demand. 6 years of extra training will enable you to do a lot more than any GP, but keep in mind, it's 6 years of your life.

My opinion differes from yours (or the dentist you are referring to). I don't see ANY specialty having trouble in the future. Boundaries will shift and change a bit, but nothing is going down the tubes. Endo is THRIVING and will continue to thrive, etc., etc.

 

[delicious]

Gundam, i totally agree with your point about getting a good basic clinical foundation. And about the excellent opportunities available for GPs (to make the same or above what a specialist makes). It sounds like you know what you wanna do with your life and that's great. But specialists will always have their place - GPs can't know and be experienced in all these procedures.

Oh, and it "ain't your opinion", but it sounds like it is, and you took the time to write it. I'd like to address some of your points. A GP with a ton of implant CE hours will still only be able to do the simplest of cases. And most aren't simple. It's not just drilling into bone - what if there is no supporting bone structure? Oh, and those endodontists that worked for your GP buddy; of course they're making less - they're working for your buddy!!! That's the whole point - they don't have to worry about bitching at their staff all day, and doing administration.

I thought that you were critical about columbia because of columbia, but it seems that you're just against "specialty-oriented" schools in general because you think specializing isn't monetarily so great. Is monetarily a word?!

There are even sayings that Wal mart will incoporate Orthos into the super markets someday For endos, I don't mind sitting down and doing root canals all day if there's money coming in. However, I did see two endodontists got hired by the GP and working for him and making much less than the average. Like you said perios can do implants, but you don't need to be a perio to do implants, be a GP and take some CE classes then you can do implants too. Oral surgery might be the only way that garantees a good income above average because of the supply and demand. 6 years of extra training will enable you to do a lot more than any GP, but keep in mind, it's 6 years of your life.

 

[gundam]

Dear Delicious. I know what you mean.
Again the dentist may have his point but I don't agree with him 100%. I'd like to go somewhere that I will get superior clinical training and also an opportunity to specialize if I need to. I'm against Columbia not because it's specialty focused, but because its curriculum and system sucks. (I've said enough in my previous posts) Harvard has poor clinical too but you can get into any specialty as you desired. And I give you a big thumb up if you chose UCSF Uconn Upenn because they are good schools for both clinical and specialty, while Columbia has neither. None!

Columbia advertises themselves as a specialty school and gives out false impression and empty promise. The specialty ratio is not as what it sounds like. The 98% is a complete joke. I hate hypocrite and phony people, and Columbia has done enough to mislead people. What about the 80% of people who didn't get into real specialty!? What are they gonna do!? They can't even treat patients well right off graduation.
I can make good money right out of dental school without risking anything and I bet you I have as good possibility to get into a specialty program as Columbia has to offer.

There are people who's fxxked by Columbia, and I know some now from dental town. They wasted their money and life big time. Check it out by yourself and you will be surprised. Period.