Comiing back to Canada

[medschoolstud]

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Last I heard this was a very difficult process... has it become any easier for Canadians to come back after studying in the UK?

Has anyone heard what "could" happen, and what they feel the chances are?

I know there are lots of rumors, but if you can give the source of your information that would be great!


Thank you!!

 

[Giemsa]

Last I heard this was a very difficult process... has it become any easier for Canadians to come back after studying in the UK?

Has anyone heard what "could" happen, and what they feel the chances are?

I know there are lots of rumors, but if you can give the source of your information that would be great!


Thank you!!

In 2009, 21% of IMGs who applied (first round) actually matched.

Of European grads, 33% (112 out of 336) matched in the first round.

(CaRMS doesn't break it down into the UK or Ireland specifically).

http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/42MatchReport_E.pdf

The 2010 match could be worse, but I don't think it will be substantially different from the 2009 match. Since 2007 (when the IMG positions were introduced) the match rate (both rounds combined) for IMGs overall has wavered between 5-10%. 2010 will be no different. Ironically, the match rates were higher BEFORE the introduction of the IMG spots in the order of 10-17% (because the number of applicants was so low).

 

[tennisball80]

In 2009, 21% of IMGs who applied (first round) actually matched.

Of European grads, 33% (112 out of 336) matched in the first round.

(CaRMS doesn't break it down into the UK or Ireland specifically).

http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/42MatchReport_E.pdf

The 2010 match could be worse, but I don't think it will be substantially different from the 2009 match. Since 2007 (when the IMG positions were introduced) the match rate (both rounds combined) for IMGs overall has wavered between 5-10%. 2010 will be no different. Ironically, the match rates were higher BEFORE the introduction of the IMG spots in the order of 10-17% (because the number of applicants was so low).

Oh Canada. That's a shocking result!

 

[Unch]

This is so misleading. In five years from my school (UCC) in Cork (UK schools should be the same), I know of only a handful of Canadians who failed to match either in Canada or the US. That's some 60-70 applicants over four matches that I know of so, say, 65 of 70 matched first try. Those who didn't match were generally trying for radiology or something and weren't entirely reasonable in their expectations... And/or did an intern year in Ireland and then matched the next year.

The grim numbers on IMG match rates are for the entire pool including all the foreign nationals/citizens (not Canadian citizens), don't speak English well, doctors from country X who haven't worked in medicine in Y years etc. Gross stats are exactly that... gross.

 

[alexc]

I agree with Unch. I have heard from doctors in Quebec (unofficiialy)that Canada chooses IMGs from Ireland, UK before others as they have very good reputations, as for the specialties, I don't know how difficult it is to get a more competitive one, but generally speaking, I thinkg grads from Ireland do very well in the first round match.

 

[Giemsa]

The grim numbers on IMG match rates are for the entire pool including all the foreign nationals/citizens (not Canadian citizens)

The grim stats ONLY include Canadian citizens/PRs.

Others are not permitted to apply to CaRMS.

 

[Arb]

That is not true. There are those that match under a visa (no citizenship or pr).

According to the CEO of Carms who visited the Irish schools, about 2/3 Canadian Irish students match through Carms. The other 1/3 either stay in Ireland or go to the US by choice or because they were unmatched in Canada.

 

[Jocks]

That is not true. There are those that match under a visa (no citizenship or pr).

According to the CEO of Carms who visited the Irish schools, about 2/3 Canadian Irish students match through Carms. The other 1/3 either stay in Ireland or go to the US by choice or because they were unmatched in Canada.

Other countries in Europe have much different match rates. Such as Poland, how match 18% of canadian applicants through Carms.

 

[Giemsa]

That is not true. There are those that match under a visa (no citizenship or pr).

It is true.

No citizenship/PR = no CaRMS.

There are some visa residents doing residency in Canada; these are students who are being sponsored by the Gulf States. They do NOT match through CaRMS and are NOT part of the quoted numbers.

According to the CEO of Carms who visited the Irish schools, about 2/3 Canadian Irish students match through Carms.

I would be extremely wary of anything that CaRMS tells you. CaRMS makes money by getting as many people as possible to apply for the expensive matching process. Canadian students have found significant "errors" in the stats they present to us.

Ask your school what the matching percentage is for Canadians through CaRMS - this is a more accurate method. Be concerned if they won't divulge this information.

The most accurate method of all is to ask the residency program secretary of the program you're interested in whether they have matched any IMGs from your school.

 

[med2UCC]

Another way to find out about match stats is to bash around on the program's website. I found match info for Dalhousie this way and was very encouraged to see that they had matched lots of IMG's in the past, and from a variety of school (Saint Georges, Trinity etc).
As previously stated, you need to be a citizen or a permanent resident to match through CaRMS. The visa students are sponsored by their governments (which explains why my Kuwaiti friends at UCC were so sure they could do residency in Canada when we Canadians were not). Cheers,
M

 

[Jocks]

I would be extremely wary of anything that CaRMS tells you. CaRMS makes money by getting as many people as possible to apply for the expensive matching process. Canadian students have found significant "errors" in the stats they present to us.

In 2009, 21% of IMGs who applied (first round) actually matched.

Of European grads, 33% (112 out of 336) matched in the first round.

(CaRMS doesn't break it down into the UK or Ireland specifically).

http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/42MatchReport_E.pdf

The 2010 match could be worse, but I don't think it will be substantially different from the 2009 match. Since 2007 (when the IMG positions were introduced) the match rate (both rounds combined) for IMGs overall has wavered between 5-10%. 2010 will be no different. Ironically, the match rates were higher BEFORE the introduction of the IMG spots in the order of 10-17% (because the number of applicants was so low).

Am I missing something?

 

[Giemsa]

What you read on the website is usually pretty safe.

But be careful of what you are told (e.g. verbally). For example, we were told that "27% Canadians studying at X school matched in Canada".

Sounds good, right?

But when you actually demanded the data, it looked different. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it broke down like this:

312 students at X are Canadians
100 people applied to CaRMS from X
22 people were interviewed
6 people were matched

You'd think the match rate would be 1.9% (% Canadians who matched) or 6% (% of applicants who matched).

But they quoted 27% - the % of interviewees who matched.

Nice rosy numbers to get people to spend money on applications.

So when they tell you that 2/3 of Canadian Irish students match through CaRMS (or some other factoid) make sure you get all the details (unless you intend to apply anyways, in which case it doesn't matter what the numbers are - just apply and back up with the US).

 

[Jocks]

What you read on the website is usually pretty safe.

But be careful of what you are told (e.g. verbally). For example, we were told that "27% Canadians studying at X school matched in Canada".

Sounds good, right?

But when you actually demanded the data, it looked different. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it broke down like this:

312 students at X are Canadians
100 people applied to CaRMS from X
22 people were interviewed
6 people were matched

You'd think the match rate would be 1.9% (% Canadians who matched) or 6% (% of applicants who matched).

But they quoted 27% - the % of interviewees who matched.

Nice rosy numbers to get people to spend money on applications.

So when they tell you that 2/3 of Canadian Irish students match through CaRMS (or some other factoid) make sure you get all the details (unless you intend to apply anyways, in which case it doesn't matter what the numbers are - just apply and back up with the US).

Ah, I see. Well in that case I can provide an Irish example from 2009.

14 students at X are Canadian
10 Applied for Carms from X
10 were interviewed
9 matched first round.

X is my school. booya.

For the record, Sandra Banner hasn't published the numbers she gave us because she wants to confirm their accuracy. However, she did give us the match % of applicants, not interviewees. These %ages were broken down via country of study.

And, just out of curiosity, what school has more than 300 canadians studying in 1 year?? That's almost equal to all the canadians studying in Ireland in all years!

 

[Giemsa]

Those are great numbers. How many students are at X this year?

(As for the school with 300+, it was a Caribbean school).

 

[iwantajob]

Jocks, which school is X? That sounds pretty promising and gives Canadian students a lot of hope! What school are you at if I may ask and do you know if the other Irish schools have similar stats? Thanks!

 

[roo]

It used to be policy that Ireland/UK/Oz/NZ/South Africa grads would get priority for residency. This sort of formal policy opened the door to lawsuits against discrimination, including setting a few relevant precedents around this area. However, they are still the same people running the show and making the decisions on who to admit to their program. And there is no quotas per country among the IMG applicant pool, so the programs can use whatever rules of thumb they want in deciding who they want to interview/admit.

 

[Kingstonhopeful]

Hey everyone,
For students from Canada is the DO route better than Ireland? I am debating over both options as DO students are able to match through CARMS in the first round (Ontario/BC) and if not can do a allopathic residency in the states and then come back. On the other hand Irish grads have matched well in Canada over the years but what about the states? There is more risk with this route but are their any chances of a Canadian Irish grad doing residency in Ireland?

So confused and looking for any feedback

 

[roo]

@Kingstonhopeful:

US residency is actually easier to get a spot than Canadian residency for most specialties. US residency has is overloaded with empty spots due to residents filling in a gap to keep a hospital running, many of which are for-profit and responsible to not run a deficit.

The hard specialties (derm, ENT, urology, rad, etc) are hard for both Canada and US, but for Canada vs. US, I can't add much colour on which is harder to gain residency. But even if you were a US student going to a US med school, derm, ENT, urology, rad, etc are still hard to get into, it just that Ireland makes it go from unlikely to more unlikely for these competitive specialities.

DO is an another option, I don't know much background there.

Best wishes!