compare difficulty level at top private med schools vs. local state school

[hottestguy]

debating between few schools...

only focusing on course work (difficulty level of tests, course load, etc.)
This is hard to compare since top private schools are graded high pass/pass/fail and my state public school is 90-100% --> A. 80-89%--->B, etc. But,


(1) is the course load at top 20 private schools greater than state public schools? for example, is there supplemental material (research papers, additional text books, etc) required? mostly referring to m1+m2, for my state med school there isn't any supplemental material

(2) comparing tests.... are top private schools test difficulty level (the same, pretty much the same, different, or really different) from public schools?

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[Morzh]

Based on everything I've ever read or heard, it's pretty much going to kick your butt wherever you go. They all teach to the same step 1 exam. Schools have nothing to gain by making courses unnecessarily hard.

 

[lisi326]

^yeah. no matter where you go, your bum is going to get kicked with more information than you think you can possibly learn. we all take the same board exam.
rather than being worried about difficulty level, I'd worry about the curriculum set-up. a lot of schools do it very differently, and it's worth it to consider. my school has a more semester-like system, where we're taking 5 classes with a traditional midterm/final week, and I love it - yeah, the week before midterm sucked a ton, but I don't have to be wildly concerned with studying my butt off all the time like at some schools where you have a test or quiz literally every week. some schools do a systems-based approach, which has its up and downs, and some schools do a ton of PBL, which you may love or hate. all of that is the more important thing than how hard it's going to be - which is very.

tl;dr: curriculum set-up > difficulty level

 

[Etorphine]

let us not forget the fact that at these top schools, the average gpa hovers around 3.83 and ~36 MCAT. In other words, this cohort of individuals are academic beasts. When the point is to be at the top of your class (literally; some schools break you up into quartiles), I'd argue it is harder when your competition is on their game.

EDIT: this is only if you're interested in an ultra-competitive specialty. If not, I don't think there would be any difference with state schools, and it would come down to curriculum, etc.

 

[Barcu]

Same material. Different grading policies that do matter to some people.

Competition is arguably higher at top schools but I doubt it's much more than what most people believe.

Med school is hard.

 

[flatearth22]

let us not forget the fact that at these top schools, the average gpa hovers around 3.83 and ~36 MCAT. In other words, this cohort of individuals are academic beasts. When the point is to be at the top of your class (literally; some schools break you up into quartiles), I'd argue it is harder when your competition is on their game.

EDIT: this is only if you're interested in an ultra-competitive specialty. If not, I don't think there would be any difference with state schools, and it would come down to curriculum, etc.

I like how this argument works for the SDN hivemind at the med school level but not at the UG level where the cohort of individuals have 2250+ SAT, 4.0+ GPA, and are also academic beasts.

 

[Morzh]

I like how this argument works for the SDN hivemind at the med school level but not at the UG level where the cohort of individuals have 2250+ SAT, 4.0+ GPA, and are also academic beasts.

Impossible. 1600 is a perfect SAT score.
joking... just reminiscing about my good ole' HS days

 

[flodhi1]

Impossible. 1600 is a perfect SAT score.
joking... just reminiscing about my good ole' HS days

SAT scores from 1600 to 2400 yeah it's a little weird.

 

[235788]

I like how this argument works for the SDN hivemind at the med school level but not at the UG level where the cohort of individuals have 2250+ SAT, 4.0+ GPA, and are also academic beasts.

Yeah right, you know as well as I do that the ivy league has gone down the toilet for UG when compared to how it used to be. Admissions are more concerned with >/= # females/male, 10% black people, 18% asian, etc rather then only accepting the brightest and fiercest academic juggernauts.


Ivy League in the 70s >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ivy league Today

Thats why I had no problem taking a fullride from a state school. BTW I was accepted to Dartmouth (the worst one, but still one) for UG (f that debt).

Also, If you knew you wanted to be a doctor wouldn't you opt for the option of least debt and the opportunity to be a big fish in a small pond?

 

[flatearth22]

Yeah right, you know as well as I do that the ivy league has gone down the toilet for UG when compared to how it used to be. Admissions are more concerned with = # of males/females, 10% black people, 18% asian, etc rather then only accepting the brightest and fiercest academic juggernauts.

Ivy League in the 70s >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ivy league Today

and how is that any different from top med schools?

Fact still remains that top high schools, UG's, med schools, residencies, etc. have, on average, smarter and harder working people than mid-level schools and programs which makes it harder for any one individual to do well. Being a student at a top program is like being a football team in the SEC whereas being a student at a mid level program is like being a football team in the WAC.

And while many top schools have increased diversity along gender, racial, and socioeconomic lines, they have done so by largely cutting back on legacy admits which is definitely a good thing. So instead of admitting the George W. Bush's of the world instead they're admitting poor racial minorities who might have scored lower than the average matriculant but also had fewer resources and a less-than-ideal academic environment growing up

 

[tiedyeddog]

4.0+ GPA, and are also academic beasts.

My dog could have earned a 4.0 in high school.The problem with high school GPAs is obvious, variance in difficulty is HUGE between schools. Your Washintgon D.C. bordering school is much better prep than your podunk county school in rural texas.

 

[Narmerguy]

This should be good.

Let's not concern ourselves that this OP's first and only post is on a classic, controversial flame topic.

 

[flatearth22]

My dog could have earned a 4.0 in high school.The problem with high school GPAs is obvious, variance in difficulty is HUGE between schools. Your Washintgon D.C. bordering school is much better prep than your podunk county school in rural texas.

Way to quote out of context. That's why they have the SAT. 25th percentile SAT scores at top schools = 75th percentile SAT scores at upper-mid level schools. Top UG's also (naturally) have higher MCAT averages amongst premeds. My whole point is that a top student at a mediocre school isn't, necessarily, superior to a mediocre student at a top school. Is Auburn, a mid-level SEC team, necessarily better than Nevada, a top-level WAC team?

 

[235788]

Way to quote out of context. That's why they have the SAT. 25th percentile SAT scores at top schools = 75th percentile SAT scores at upper-mid level schools. Top UG's also (naturally) have higher MCAT averages amongst premeds. My whole point is that a top student at a mediocre school isn't, necessarily, superior to a mediocre student at a top school. Is Auburn, a mid-level SEC team, necessarily better than Nevada, a top-level WAC team?

College football = medicine

 

[reynoldsnumber]

Way to quote out of context. That's why they have the SAT. 25th percentile SAT scores at top schools = 75th percentile SAT scores at upper-mid level schools. Top UG's also (naturally) have higher MCAT averages amongst premeds. My whole point is that a top student at a mediocre school isn't, necessarily, superior to a mediocre student at a top school. Is Auburn, a mid-level SEC team, necessarily better than Nevada, a top-level WAC team?

Where are you trying to go with the football analogy?

Arguably the best football player of all time (Jerry Rice) went to a no name college (Mississippi Valley State) in a no name conference (Southwester Athletic Conference).

As others on here have said, where you go to school matters, but not as much as you would think. It really depends on you as an individual and what you want to put into it.

 

[Etorphine]

I like how this argument works for the SDN hivemind at the med school level but not at the UG level where the cohort of individuals have 2250+ SAT, 4.0+ GPA, and are also academic beasts.

by the time you get to med school you have two selection processes that have already occurred, with the second being more stringent. nice strawman though

Where are you trying to go with the football analogy?

Arguably the best football player of all time (Jerry Rice) went to a no name college (Mississippi Valley State) in a no name conference (Southwester Athletic Conference).

As others on here have said, where you go to school matters, but not as much as you would think. It really depends on you as an individual and what you want to put into it.

+1

 

[liveoak]

all med schools are the same.

 

[235788]

I think the privates have really lost their luster in today's world. If you have a state school that pumps out tons of specialists and you want to be a specialists (Ex: OSU/Wayne state/Cinci are some around me) then how could you justify the cost?

Two students both want to be orthopods, one goes to private (60k/year w/ living) and the other to a solid state school (45k/year w/ living). Both graduate and enter ortho residencies and eventually do private practice ortho. In the end both are equal, but one has far less debt. Yes, some privates give you a better shot at some residencies, but if you still match and save tons of money who cares.

It would be different if you went to a PC med school though. OP, if your state school has competitive matches then I'd give it thorough look before siding w/ the private.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I think the privates have really lost their luster in today's world. If you have a state school that pumps out tons of specialists and you want to be a specialists (Ex: OSU/Wayne state/Cinci are some around me) then how could you justify the cost?

The difference is not specialist vs. primary care. Many of those trying to get into the best residencies do so because they want to then go into academic medicine. Medicine is a very small community, and knowing the big shots at big institutions helps you land academic jobs.

When you look at match lists don't just look in what specialties people go into but also look at where.

 

[anbuitachi]

Its hard wherever you go. Probably less work if you go to a place with no lectures. can save a lot of time. state school is only easier to get higher rankings vs a better ranked school. then again residencies look at med school ranking as well.. so in the end it kind of balances out.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Way to quote out of context. That's why they have the SAT. 25th percentile SAT scores at top schools = 75th percentile SAT scores at upper-mid level schools. Top UG's also (naturally) have higher MCAT averages amongst premeds. My whole point is that a top student at a mediocre school isn't, necessarily, superior to a mediocre student at a top school. Is Auburn, a mid-level SEC team, necessarily better than Nevada, a top-level WAC team?

How was that out of context? You can't compare undergraduate admissions to medical school admissions. You can't compare medical school to residency. Different factors going on. If you could, people would be asking for your SAT scores during residency applications.

And a guy with a 2.5 GPA from Harvard is going to have troubles getting into medical school anywhere. I am going to go ahead and say that yes, a superior student (35+MCAT,~4.0) from a state school is going to do far better during application to medical schools than the dude from an ivy with a 3.4/30. Guarantee it.

And a mediocre student(low step 1 scores...) even from a top ten school is going to have trouble matching into plastics. Fact.

 

[ponyo]

How was that out of context? You can't compare undergraduate admissions to medical school admissions. You can't compare medical school to residency. Different factors going on. If you could, people would be asking for your SAT scores during residency applications.

And a guy with a 2.5 GPA from Harvard is going to have troubles getting into medical school anywhere. I am going to go ahead and say that yes, a superior student (35+MCAT,~4.0) from a state school is going to do far better during application to medical schools than the dude from an ivy with a 3.4/30. Guarantee it.

And a mediocre student(low step 1 scores...) even from a top ten school is going to have trouble matching into plastics. Fact.

I think he was saying ceteris paribus...

 

[hottestguy]

kind of getting off topic...
I am saying public med schools are easy. Also, it's obvious it is harder to be top 20% at top private med schools versus state med school. I am asking how much harder the course load and tests are.

word bank: the same, pretty much the same, different, or very different.

examples (my opinion).
(1) high schools.
I'd say very different. some top private high schools have 30-40% of their graduates attend ivy league colleges versus some inner city high schools have 30-40% drop out rates. so these private high schools are a lot harder.
(2) colleges - sciene classes.
I'd say between pretty much the same to different. Ivy league schools science tests are a little harder than public schools. The fact that most Ivy league schools require you to read text books and research papers on top of basic class makes it different.
(2) colleges - non science classes.
very different. in public school english essays if you use correct grammer that is atleast a B. in a ivy league school, they grade a lot more than just grammer.
(3) grad schools.
very different. harvard business school vs. business school at a local college are two different things. Also research at MIT vs. research at a state school are very different. One of my friends at MIT didn't get his PhD because his research wasn't "that big" versus state public schools where your thesis is like a lab report, as long as you did the lab you get an A.
(4) top 20 med schools vs. state med schools
?????

 

[plauto]

No, it is not obvious. Top 20 schools are rated as such based on many parameters that have nothing to do with how hard the classes are. People gave you the answer. "top" schools do not offer harder classes. Only slight advantage I can think of is that the presence of big wigs might offer a bit of an advantage in getting into a competitive residency. Many state schools also employ big wigs.
You learn the same stuff at the same crazy pace no matter where you and you will be a good or bad doctor no matter where you go.

 

[gmcguitar4]

Normally when you hear people refer to top 20, it is regarding the top research programs. This is based off NIH funding and other parameters. There is also a list of top primary care institutions, which the "top school list" flips upside down.

Medical school is what YOU make of it. Not how the news rates it.

 

[hownowmauvecow]

And not all state schools are bad are lower ranked. Point in case, UTSW is tied for 22 (last time I checked). And I am pretty sure U Mich is up there too. Private does not always equal good. And in the end whats more important is going to a school that will be the best for you (in terms of learning styles, clinical experiences, matching, cost, etc.)

Plus someone with a 250+ board score from a state school will probably be more competitive than someone with below 220 from an Ivy or other top ranked school (assuming the high board score also correlated to better grades among other things.)

 

[mdhopeful65]

.

 

[JSU]

Which state schools are we talking about? Obviously not Cali schools...

 

[DoctwoB]

Plus someone with a 250+ board score from a state school will probably be more competitive than someone with below 220 from an Ivy or other top ranked school (assuming the high board score also correlated to better grades among other things.)

Well duh, but its hard to imagine going to a lower ranked school will boost your step 1 much.

OP, I wouldn't worry about it. Yes your class rank will probably be lower at Harvard then at random state U. But Step 1 is the great equalizer, and if you look at top school's match lists, even the "bad" matches are pretty darn good. Top schools often give out more honors grades as well then most state schools (though this is highly school dependent). Plus you can get better rec letters, research opportunities, better home residency, etc.

That being said, if your state school is good and much cheaper, that's pretty hard to turn down, as if you do well you'll still match just fine.

 

[45408]

Where are you trying to go with the football analogy?

Arguably the best football player of all time (Jerry Rice) went to a no name college (Mississippi Valley State) in a no name conference (Southwester Athletic Conference).

As others on here have said, where you go to school matters, but not as much as you would think. It really depends on you as an individual and what you want to put into it.

Oops, you misspelled "Aaron Rodgers" and "Butte Community College."

 

[45408]

kind of getting off topic...
I am saying public med schools are easy. Also, it's obvious it is harder to be top 20% at top private med schools versus state med school.

No, public med schools are not easy. You're also grossly overestimating the benefit that GPA/MCAT conveys toward being in the top 20% of your med school class. The skill sets are similar but not the same.

I am asking how much harder the course load and tests are.

I don't know. Ask someone who attended a public med school and a "top research" school. Oh wait, there aren't any. You're really only going to get heresay. In some regards, the "top" schools are easier if they're just pass/fail, but that's compounded by the possibility of class rankings.

(3) grad schools.
very different. harvard business school vs. business school at a local college are two different things. Also research at MIT vs. research at a state school are very different. One of my friends at MIT didn't get his PhD because his research wasn't "that big" versus state public schools where your thesis is like a lab report, as long as you did the lab you get an A.
(4) top 20 med schools vs. state med schools
?????

Much less different than grad school. The quality required of every US MD school is pretty high. I'm not very familiar with DO schools, and Caribbean schools have wildly variable quality.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

top schools are way way harder. there's a second half to netter's only top 20 schools have access to.