Concern about anti-lgbt behavior

[Textuality]

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You're pretty quick to assume that I am not in your situation.

Aren't you the one who's saying not to judge people before you know them? I haven't told you anything about myself, so if you're going to make the point that we shouldn't judge people just based on their outward appearance, perhaps you should lead the tradition.

Haha, hun, I wasn't referring to you, if I was I would have quoted you 😛 Like I'm doing now. You, yes you. I'm just saying, in general, if one hasn't been on the end of the "***", "****" , "come here lez and let a real man F* you" type of harassment, one might have a hard time understanding why some of us have a hard time ignoring it.

🙂

Coool.

 

[bodonid]

Edit- nevermind. Going to bed.

 

[flaahless]

the problem is that there are so many different terms that could be used that no one knows what to use. as a white person, I can tell you that a lot of the time I'm literally afraid around black people because I feel like I'm one wrong word away from getting my *** kicked.

this may or may not be something black/african american people consider. white people actually largely feel like they're discriminated against by blacks.

I feel you. If we met in real life and you called me black, I wouldn't get upset or hate you forever. I'd be like... "yo man, can you not call me that?" And you'd probably be like, "no prob homie." And then we'd toast to a bottle of guiness or heff or whatever. I think it's more of a respect thing. I'm not going to expect you to know that I dislike the term black, just as I'm not going to expect you to know that I had a low-key crush on Ashlee Simpson (pre-op). But once you know, just respect it. But some people brush it off and blatantly and directly ingore it and say things like... "the term african american is stupid." That's rude man.

And as far as the reverse/discrimination thing. That's a whole new can of worms. I think it largely depends on a combination of economic status, region, education and personal experiences.

 

[Textuality]

edit

Haha, did you really edit something else out? Now I'm curious 😛

 

[armybound]

I feel you. If we met in real life and you called me black, I wouldn't get upset or hate you forever. I'd be like... "yo man, can you not call me that?" And you'd probably be like, "no prob homie." And then we'd toast to a bottle of guiness or heff or whatever. I think it's more of a respect thing. I'm not going to expect you to know that I dislike the term black, just as I'm not going to expect you to know that I had a low-key crush on Ashlee Simpson (pre-op). But once you know, just respect it. But some people brush it off and blatantly and directly ingore it and say things like... "the term african american is stupid." That's rude man.

And as far as the reverse/discrimination thing. That's a whole new can of worms. I think it largely depends on a combination of economic status, region, education and personal experiences.

as long as people know racism goes both ways, I'm happy. I think it's a largely understated fact that white people feel discriminated against. It's probably seen as acceptable for "payback" or some such.

but yeah, don't ever think white people are racist for saying "black". the "rules" as it were are constantly changing, and we can't keep up.

 

[Tin Man]

Haha, hun, I wasn't referring to you, if I was I would have quoted you 😛 Like I'm doing now. You, yes you. I'm just saying, in general, if one hasn't been on the end of the "***", "****" , "come here lez and let a real man F* you" type of harassment, one might have a hard time understanding why some of us have a hard time ignoring it.

🙂

Coool.

I just don't understand "being offended." I've been on the business end of plenty of people's trashholes, and I just never bothered to lend them any credence. So, despite having been attacked myself, I simply cannot understand why people even bother reacting to it on any sort of an emotional level. If you're gay, then being called a "***" just means that the person has a problem with you being gay. Who cares? An opinion is an opinion, and while I'm not going to bring up the "right to an opinion" idea (since that technically doesn't exist), I will say that nobody has any reason to let what someone else thinks of their gender, skin color, or sexuality get to them. There just really isn't an excuse for it, especially, when concerning sexuality, you choose to live openly knowing what kind of a world we live in.

 

[suwaifo]

i want to second this opinion. i feel like this too a lot of times, especially when i'm with my husband (who is African).

when i was in africa, you could call a spade a spade. i'm white. you're black. it was simple. i realize the history is way different, but i didn't feel uncomfortable and people never made it an issue.

i don't want to offend anybody, but it's like walking on eggshells here.

Stop walking on the eggshells then. Why do you even need to bring up such matters when talking to someone? I don't know how you guys talk to or meet new people but I certainly don't find the need to bring up anything personal like race or sexuality.

 

[135892]

the problem is that there are so many different terms that could be used that no one knows what to use. as a white person, I can tell you that a lot of the time I'm literally afraid around black people because I feel like I'm one wrong word away from getting my *** kicked.

this may or may not be something black/african american people consider. white people actually largely feel like they're discriminated against by blacks.

Yeah, some African Americans/blacks are the most racist people I know. But of course no one can say anything about it

 

[bodonid]

Ha! You did it again! Changing my post, edit was a placeholder.


And to the poster earlier, I wasn't comparing racism with homophobia. I was just saying that they are both equally ignorant and that many people don't understand that their homophobia is abnormal (which can be true of racism)

(In other words, I thought I was iterating a commonly held opinion in a place intended for discussion... wasn't flaming.)

 

[Textuality]

I just don't understand "being offended." I've been on the business end of plenty of people's trashholes, and I just never bothered to lend them any credence. So, despite having been attacked myself, I simply cannot understand why people even bother reacting to it on any sort of an emotional level. If you're gay, then being called a "***" just means that the person has a problem with you being gay. Who cares? An opinion is an opinion, and while I'm not going to bring up the "right to an opinion" idea (since that technically doesn't exist), I will say that nobody has any reason to let what someone else thinks of their gender, skin color, or sexuality get to them. There just really isn't an excuse for it, especially, when concerning sexuality, you choose to live openly knowing what kind of a world we live in.

Well, you can deal how you want to deal. I"ll deal with it how I want to deal, and face the consequences of my actions. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Jolie South]

Stop walking on the eggshells then. Why do you even need to bring up such matters when talking to someone? I don't know how you guys talk to or meet new people but I certainly don't find the need to bring up anything personal like race or sexuality.

i don't bring it up but sometimes it comes up randomly.

like say i'm at work and i have to refer a coworker to another colleague who is black for instance. this coworker has never seen the colleague before, so i have to give a physical description.

"yea, you need to talk to mike. his desk is in the 200 lab (where 20 other people sit). he's the really tall black guy that sits on the left side."

there aren't always ways to get around it. it's not like mike wears a huge name tag on his chest all the time. in this situation, i would hesitate before saying anything and then wonder if i said the correct thing after i said it. i don't always have time to personally walk this coworker over to mike to avoid awkwardness.

 

[Textuality]

Yeah, some African Americans/blacks are the most racist people I know. But of course no one can say anything about it

Oh...I dunno, us asians can get pretty racist too. Most of my relatives in China still instinctively dislike the Japanese.

 

[flaahless]

as long as people know racism goes both ways, I'm happy. I think it's a largely understated fact that white people feel discriminated against. It's probably seen as acceptable for "payback" or some such.

but yeah, don't ever think white people are racist for saying "black". the "rules" as it were are constantly changing, and we can't keep up.

Definitely. I'd say that racism doesn't merely go both ways, it goes every way.

For instance, my best friend since I was 11 is a caucasian dude. But our entire crew is african american with one filipino american right. Whenever we go to play ball and things get heated, some ignorant dude on the opposing team will be like... "blah blah blah shuttup 'whiteboy' blah blah."
And then we all chime in like.. "Wtf? What does that have to do with anything?"

Or for my filipino friend, they'll be like "blah blah blah insert famous asian american actor here _____..." And that's uncalled for.

In this situation though, my two friends are the minorities on the basketball court. And they get discriminated against. Is it fair? No. Should it be tolerated? No.

Racism goes a lot of ways. I think the first step to stopping it is respect.

I feel like I somehow hijacked this thread. Sorry OP.

 

[bodonid]

Oh...I dunno, us asians can get pretty racist too. Most of my relatives in China still instinctively dislike the Japanese.

Yeah, cutting off your fifth distal phalanx in protest is bordering on psychotic (Koreans, I know, but still protesting Japanese and for similar reasons)

 

[flaahless]

i don't bring it up but sometimes it comes up randomly.

like say i'm at work and i have to refer a coworker to another colleague who is black for instance. this coworker has never seen the colleague before, so i have to give a physical description.

"yea, you need to talk to mike. his desk is in the 200 lab (where 20 other people sit). he's the really tall black guy that sits on the left side."

there aren't always ways to get around it. it's not like mike wears a huge name tag on his chest all the time. in this situation, i would hesitate before saying anything and then wonder if i said the correct thing after i said it. i don't always have time to personally walk this coworker over to mike to avoid awkwardness.

Jolie, you seem like really cool people. Like dude said above you, don't walk on eggshells. Be yourself. Trying to completely PC is impossible. Someone is bound to get offended by something. If it happens, I'm sure no one will think that you are mean spirited person. Chances are, they will just brush it off and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Nothing is wrong with the scenario above. It's ridiculous for someone to expect you to know everything that offends them. If I were Mike I'd just be like.. "yo Jolie... can you call me dark skinned instead?" And you'd be like "no problem fam," and then we would toast and sing joyful songs.

 

[135892]

Jolie, you seem like really cool people. Like dude said above you, don't walk on eggshells. Be yourself. Trying to completely PC is impossible. Someone is bound to get offended by something. If it happens, I'm sure no one will think that you are mean spirited person. Chances are, they will just brush it off and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Nothing is wrong with the scenario above. It's ridiculous for someone to expect you to know everything that offends them. If I were Mike I'd just be like.. "yo Jolie... can you call me dark skinned instead?" And you'd be like "no problem fam," and then we would toast and sing joyful songs.

So now the correct term "dark skinned"? Good to know. Just give me a weekly update as to what the politically correct term has changed to

 

[flaahless]

So now the correct term "dark skinned"? Good to know. Just give me a weekly update as to what the politically correct term has changed to

Why are you being a jerk about it? 😕 I'm just saying to respect my decision to be called whatever I want. Why is that so difficult?

 

[suwaifo]

So now the correct term "dark skinned"? Good to know. Just give me a weekly update as to what the politically correct term has changed to

I'm pretty sure he was just using that as an example of people having their own opinions.

 

[bodonid]

So now the correct term "dark skinned"? Good to know. Just give me a weekly update as to what the politically correct term has changed to

Aww, that's not nice. But he has a point. "Dark skinned" and "black" are pretty much synonymous.

I'll save you the trouble and reply to my own post: Historical connotations, racist undertones, etc.

 

[Jolie South]

Jolie, you seem like really cool people. Like dude said above you, don't walk on eggshells. Be yourself. Trying to completely PC is impossible. Someone is bound to get offended by something. If it happens, I'm sure no one will think that you are mean spirited person. Chances are, they will just brush it off and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Nothing is wrong with the scenario above. It's ridiculous for someone to expect you to know everything that offends them. If I were Mike I'd just be like.. "yo Jolie... can you call me dark skinned instead?" And you'd be like "no problem fam," and then we would toast and sing joyful songs.

i realize that. it's just that sometimes i feel like as a white person it's taboo for me to say how i feel about racial issues/appellations.

 

[bodonid]

I'm pretty sure he was just using that as an example of people having their own opinions.

I think he did say that his term of choice is "light skinned" for white people. Makes sense to me. But white makes sense too.

 

[suwaifo]

Haha, hun, I wasn't referring to you, if I was I would have quoted you 😛 Like I'm doing now. You, yes you. I'm just saying, in general, if one hasn't been on the end of the "***", "****" , "come here lez and let a real man F* you" type of harassment, one might have a hard time understanding why some of us have a hard time ignoring it.

🙂

Coool.

Unless you come from the south or something, calling someone hun can be really patronizing.

 

[bodonid]

Unless you come from the south or something, calling someone hun can be really patronizing.

WOW!! you took the least offensive word in the post and took it DOWN! You're good...

Have fun boys and girls (patronizing?) I really am going to beddy-bye now.

 

[flaahless]

Aww, that's not nice. But he has a point. "Dark skinned" and "black" are pretty much synonymous.

I'll save you the trouble and reply to my own post: Historical connotations, racist undertones, etc.

I said "dark skinned" in a semi-humourous way. I was gonna say "orange" but I didn't make sense. Anyways, I was trying to emphasize the point that if I want to be called an Ostrich, then damn, call me an Ostrich. Respect it.

When Muhammed Ali changed his named from Cassius Clay, people were reluctant to call him Ali. Why? What's wrong with honoring someone's decision to be called whatever they desire? 😕

 

[Tin Man]

Aww, that's not nice. But he has a point. "Dark skinned" and "black" are pretty much synonymous.

I'll save you the trouble and reply to my own post: Historical connotations, racist undertones, etc.

There's historical connotations of being Irish, too.

The point is that black is exactly what it sounds like: dark skinned. Of course it's racial to a degree in that it describes a race of people, as does white, or brown, or yellow, or whatever. It's not even really referring to color, since I've never seen a truly "black" black person.

There's historical connotation with being called "Negro", yet many prefer that. There's historical connotation with being called "African-American", but many don't like that (mainly because it's the "African" part that's historical now). There is historical connotation with being called "colored", yet the main civil rights group refers to black people as "colored."

There's going to be historical connotations no matter what. "Black", believe it or not, seems to be the least offensive of them all, since it is used on most official documents right next to "white".

 

[flaahless]

i realize that. it's just that sometimes i feel like as a white person it's taboo for me to say how i feel about racial issues/appellations.

That's a personal issue that goes much deeper than honoring someone's decision to be called whatever they desire.

 

[Tin Man]

Unless you come from the south or something, calling someone hun can be really patronizing.

Are you trying to pick a fight or something?

I have no problem with being called "hun." At least someone thinks I'm a sweetie pie. Although, I can't imagine why others fail to grasp my individual charm.

 

[flaahless]

There's historical connotations of being Irish, too.

The point is that black is exactly what it sounds like: dark skinned. Of course it's racial to a degree in that it describes a race of people, as does white, or brown, or yellow, or whatever. It's not even really referring to color, since I've never seen a truly "black" black person.

There's historical connotation with being called "Negro", yet many prefer that. There's historical connotation with being called "African-American", but many don't like that (mainly because it's the "African" part that's historical now). There is historical connotation with being called "colored", yet the main civil rights group refers to black people as "colored."

There's going to be historical connotations no matter what. "Black", believe it or not, seems to be the least offensive of them all, since it is used on most official documents right next to "white".

I get that. I'm not debating that, nor am I representing the entire African American culture. I represent myself. Not the NAACP, likewise, they don't represent me. They represent the NAACP.

All I am saying is to respect someone's desire to be calle whatever they want. Whether that is black, or african american or Tin man. Respect it.

Since your display name is Tin Man, I'm not going to be a jerk and be like "Tin Man is stupid. You're not made of tin. I'm gonna call you Susan instead (ala Dr. Cox)." That's just foolish. I'm going to respect your desire to be called whatever you want. That's all I'm saying.

 

[suwaifo]

I said "dark skinned" in a semi-humourous way. I was gonna say "orange" but I didn't make sense. Anyways, I was trying to emphasize the point that if I want to be called an Ostrich, then damn, call me an Ostrich. Respect it.

When Muhammed Ali changed his named from Cassius Clay, people were reluctant to call him Ali. Why? What's wrong with honoring someone's decision to be called whatever they desire? 😕

That's different. If you knew someone all your life and they drastically changed their name, it would be pretty hard for you to adjust too.

That and if you personally understand your own philosophy, it's kind of redundant to have other people be aware of your awareness. Maybe I'm just strong, but I can take the hit and just keep things to myself. I might be wrong though, I don't know the background on what being called Muhammed Ali means. Maybe it's something completely different, but if it's a matter of pride, suck it up.

 

[InfinitePour]

When Muhammed Ali changed his named from Cassius Clay, people were reluctant to call him Ali. Why? What's wrong with honoring someone's decision to be called whatever they desire? 😕

It is a hassle to keep up to date with what every group wants to be called at the moment, and people dislike change in general. For example, switching to the metric system would be practical, but most do not want to do it.

 

[flaahless]

That's different. If you knew someone all your life and they drastically changed their name, it would be pretty hard for you to adjust too.

That's completely understandable. I don't see any harm in that. It's just when people refuse to do so because they think it's "stupid." Come on now.

 

[suwaifo]

Are you trying to pick a fight or something?

I have no problem with being called "hun." At least someone thinks I'm a sweetie pie. Although, I can't imagine why others fail to grasp my individual charm.

Nah, not trying to pick a fight, but since everyone's pointing out all these little things, I thought I would join in.

 

[Textuality]

Unless you come from the south or something, calling someone hun can be really patronizing.

It's also a Baltimore thing (which is where I'm currently situated). But since you find it patronizing, I'll make sure not to call you that.

Oh, and I love this commerial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgxOhG2nDOA

 

[suwaifo]

It's also a Baltimore thing (which is where I'm currently situated). But since you find it patronizing, I'll make sure not to call you that.

Oh, and I love this commerial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgxOhG2nDOA

I don't mean to be a smart aleck (and ironically I'm about to be one right now with what I say) but I didn't specifically say that I myself find it patronizing. Some people might though and thats all there is to it.

This is kind of on a tangent but I hate it how some people just can't take jokes. It makes life boring. People need to start trusting people or else nothing will ever be funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2y_GwKzxck This commercial is much catchier. It's kind of stupid though.

 

[Jolie South]

That's a personal issue that goes much deeper than honoring someone's decision to be called whatever they desire.

that makes sense, but unless we talk like we're doing here, even the most educated of us will remain prejudiced to some degree.

and by "saying how i feel", i didn't mean imposing my beliefs. i should have said asking questions about or bringing up racial issues. i also didn't mean to imply that this is something that i would or should do with every random person of a different color on the street either.

i actually think that this has been a very civil racial discussion as compared to most. 👍

 

[Textuality]

I don't mean to be a smart aleck (and ironically I'm about to be one right now with what I say) but I didn't specifically say that I myself find it patronizing. Some people might though and thats all there is to it.

This is kind of on a tangent but I hate it how some people just can't take jokes. It makes life boring. People need to start trusting people or else nothing will ever be funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2y_GwKzxck This commercial is much catchier. It's kind of stupid though.

Haha, I know you were exaggerating, I was just using the opportunity to illustrate Flaahless' etiquette.

I can take a joke if it's actually supposed to be a joke. Sometimes you just can't tell though. There have been times when I started laughing, and they were being dead serious...awkward.

 

[Nookular]

i want to second this opinion. i feel like this too a lot of times, especially when i'm with my husband (who is African).

when i was in africa, you could call a spade a spade. i'm white. you're black. it was simple. i realize the history is way different, but i didn't feel uncomfortable and people never made it an issue.

i don't want to offend anybody, but it's like walking on eggshells here.

wow. I seriously hope no pun was intended on this.

 

[flaahless]

wow. I seriously hope no pun was intended on this.

I don't get the pun. But I don't think Jolie was trying to be facetious. She's a sweetheart. I can vouch for her. 👍

 

[InfinitePour]

I have found this thread entertaining and educational. I have never discussed sexuality with a liberal crowd.

I have another question for this sexually tolerant crowd. How do you feel about adult brother-sister incest? Or bestiality with consenting animals? Can these situations be compared to lgbt?

 

[135892]

I have found this thread entertaining and educational. I have never discussed sexuality with a liberal crowd.

I have another question for this sexually tolerant crowd. How do you feel about adult brother-sister incest? Or bestiality with consenting animals? Can these situations be compared to lgbt?

adult brother-sister incest: If they both want to, sure
beastiality: sure, I don't see why not

 

[Nookular]

I don't get the pun. But I don't think Jolie was trying to be facetious. She's a sweetheart. I can vouch for her. 👍

spade is a racial slur for blacks.

 

[flaahless]

I have found this thread entertaining and educational. I have never discussed sexuality with a liberal crowd.

I have another question for this sexually tolerant crowd. How do you feel about adult brother-sister incest? Or bestiality with consenting animals? Can these situations be compared to lgbt?

As far as incest goes, I say let people do what they do. To each their own. Just because it's not for me, doesn't give me the power to hate on someone else's lifestyle choice.

Beastiality, that's a different subject because anaimal rights must be taken into account. But, if there is a such thing of consenting sexual activity between a human and a nonhuman, then let them do what they do.

 

[flaahless]

spade is a racial slur for blacks.

Ohhhh. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the heads up. Nonetheless, I don't think she meant it that way. She's good peoples.

 

[Textuality]

I have found this thread entertaining and educational. I have never discussed sexuality with a liberal crowd.

I have another question for this sexually tolerant crowd. How do you feel about adult brother-sister incest? Or bestiality with consenting animals? Can these situations be compared to lgbt?

Compared to LGBT? I don't think it's really quite the same thing in that I don't consider them to be general orientations, and because I happen to think homosexuality has a certain genetic component and I don't think incest or bestiality do (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, how exactly does an animal consent?

I don't object to incest as long as: both partners are over age and consenting adults. Although I'd really hope they don't have children due to the genetic issues.

Bestiality? Well, again, I don't know how animals consent. I guess if an animal came onto you sexually and you consented to it, then sure, whatever floats your boat.

 

[suwaifo]

I have found this thread entertaining and educational. I have never discussed sexuality with a liberal crowd.

I have another question for this sexually tolerant crowd. How do you feel about adult brother-sister incest? Or bestiality with consenting animals? Can these situations be compared to lgbt?

It's ironic. I'm quite conservative and I thought it was the conservatives that believed in free choice. I just don't care, I'm not gay but to each man his own I guess. I mean I have my own points about why I'm against some things but I don't need to bring them in here.

Letting people do what they want to do and doing the right thing are two different things. I'd say bestiality and incest are quite freakish but whatevs

 

[wutwinb]

This weeks episode was quite possibly the hottest thing i've ever seen. Between Tasha and Alice, Shane and the straight girl, Bette and Tina, and Max and Jodi's interpreter....well, yeah. It was nothing short of amazing. I still want to know for sure who burned down shane's hair salon. But i really miss Carmen, i wish she was still on the show. Haha still offtopic, but veering closer, and definitely more fun, so i'm for that convo!

I LOVE the L word!! I just started watching this year and have caught up on all the episodes already. Last week's episode was really amazing, this whole Bette/Tina thing is driving me nuts; can't they make it official already?! Also, Jennifer Beals/Bette Porter is my mixed hero, I love how she asked the writers to make Bette bi-racial.


I think there are only 3 episodes left this season, after that I won't know how to spend my Sunday nights...


Edit: Sorry to get off topic! I got too excited to see people talking about the L word

 

[Tin Man]

It's ironic. I'm quite conservative and I thought it was the conservatives that believed in free choice. I just don't care, I'm not gay but to each man his own I guess. I mean I have my own points about why I'm against some things but I don't need to bring them in here.

Letting people do what they want to do and doing the right thing are two different things. I'd say bestiality and incest are quite freakish but whatevs

That's exceedingly liberal of you.

You do realize that "liberal" means "free", right? I thought that it would sort of jump out at you, but I guess we can blame it on historical context... or something...

 

[suwaifo]

That's exceedingly liberal of you.

You do realize that "liberal" means "free", right? I thought that it would sort of jump out at you, but I guess we can blame it on historical context... or something...

I actually enjoy history a lot and to my understanding, liberal generally meant more government interference while conservative meant less government interference, i.e. social security and all that good stuff. Something like Reagan's "Government is the problem." I guess you could say I'm more libertarian, but that's just to keep tensions low. I'm pretty conservative on the inside.

 

[Drogba]

I have found this thread entertaining and educational. I have never discussed sexuality with a liberal crowd.

I have another question for this sexually tolerant crowd. How do you feel about adult brother-sister incest? Or bestiality with consenting animals? Can these situations be compared to lgbt?

You are quite the comedian...

 

[135892]

I actually enjoy history a lot and to my understanding, liberal generally meant more government interference while conservative meant less government interference, i.e. social security and all that good stuff. Something like Reagan's "Government is the problem." I guess you could say I'm more libertarian, but that's just to keep tensions low. I'm pretty conservative on the inside.

👍