Confused about Postbacc

[ScriptFlip]

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Hey, I don't know if this is the right subsection to post my question. Sorry if it's not.

I was a bio major for the first 2 years of undergrad, and was doing well. In my 2nd and 3rd years however, I failed/received low grades in my med school pre-reqs (due to unfortunate circumstance, as well as my immaturity) and was subsequently forced out of my major. At the same time, I decided against being a doctor. Now that I have graduated with a economics degree, I have been reconsidering the option, but know that my previous record will hold me back. (I would like to at least try for an MD instead of a DO)

I want to try getting into a postbacc program (for career changers), but I think I have taken too many science courses to apply. At the same time, I don't know if an informal postbacc will help me; nor can I apply for an SMP because I have not taken the MCAT. When I was put in the effort, I excelled at my science courses, so I know that medical school is doable. Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me? I want to fix the mistakes I made when I was too immature to set my priorities straight. Could I even apply for a postbacc? I have also heard SMPs are an option, but I have gone so long without taking the pre-reqs that I will probably end up with a low MCAT score. Conversely, I know I could do great on the MCAT if I could brush up on my science. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to begin? I know that informal postbaccs are possible, but I feel as if I will be unable to enroll in the courses I need in a timely manner. Thanks for your help.

TLDR: made a lot of mistakes, do not know if I can fix it/ where to begin fixing my situation. Which program should I shoot for so that I can attempt to become an MD.

sGPA 2.65, cGPA 3.1 majorGPA 3.7, SAT 2350

 

[Moko]

I would like to at least try for an MD instead of a DO. I want to try getting into a postbacc program (for career changers), but I think I have taken too many science courses to apply. At the same time, I don't know if an informal postbacc will help me; nor can I apply for an SMP because I have not taken the MCAT. ... I have also heard SMPs are an option, but I have gone so long without taking the pre-reqs that I will probably end up with a low MCAT score. Conversely, I know I could do great on the MCAT if I could brush up on my science. sGPA 2.65, cGPA 3.1

Tough situation to be in, but others in similar situations have succeeded in the past by putting in significant amounts of time and effort. The "easiest" and quickest route to becoming a physician is by retaking the classes in which you did poorly in, and then applying DO (taking advantage of their grade replacement policy).

If you're only considering MD schools though, I'd still retake the pre-reqs to refresh your memory for the MCAT while giving yourself a slight GPA boost. Call some post-bacc programs and see if they'll accept you as a non-degree seeking student. You shouldn't have trouble finding a program that'll be happy to take your money. Depending on what your cGPA, sGPA and MCAT are after all of this, you can consider doing a SMP. The MD path is going to be longer, more expensive, and riskier. Make sure that what you want to do in the future cannot be achieved by pursuing DO. Best of luck!

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

sGPA 2.65, cGPA 3.1 majorGPA 3.7

Tough spot to be in. Take enough classes to get your sGPA above a 3.0 and go SMP.
MD will be a long long road for you my friend. I assume you also don't have the necessary EC's?
Do reconsider DO, otherwise be prepared to essentially re-do your undergrad.

 

[ScriptFlip]

Tough situation to be in, but others in similar situations have succeeded in the past by putting in significant amounts of time and effort. The "easiest" and quickest route to becoming a physician is by retaking the classes in which you did poorly in, and then applying DO (taking advantage of their grade replacement policy).

If you're only considering MD schools though, I'd still retake the pre-reqs to refresh your memory for the MCAT while giving yourself a slight GPA boost. Call some post-bacc programs and see if they'll accept you as a non-degree seeking student. You shouldn't have trouble finding a program that'll be happy to take your money. Depending on what your cGPA, sGPA and MCAT are after all of this, you can consider doing a SMP. The MD path is going to be longer, more expensive, and riskier. Make sure that what you want to do in the future cannot be achieved by pursuing DO. Best of luck!

Thanks, how would I go about finding postbacc programs that would do this? Would it put me in a disadvantage compared to those who are in actual postbacc programs? How would the postbacc courses I take as a non-degree seeking student affect my GPA vs otherwise?

 

[ScriptFlip]

Tough spot to be in. Take enough classes to get your sGPA above a 3.0 and go SMP.
MD will be a long long road for you my friend. I assume you also don't have the necessary EC's?
Do reconsider DO, otherwise be prepared to essentially re-do your undergrad.

I don't even know where to begin, where would I start? How would I begin enrolling in courses to boost my GPA as well as ensuring that any Med Schools I apply to will take them seriously?

 

[CHoge25]

How many of the pre reqs did you take??

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

I don't even know where to begin, where would I start? How would I begin enrolling in courses to boost my GPA as well as ensuring that any Med Schools I apply to will take them seriously?

I personally like the idea of a "do-it yourself" postbacc. Essentially you go to the closest state university near you and start taking classes. Take a significant amount of science course (since your sGPA is the lowest). After essentially about year of a high 3.7+ GPA, you would apply to SMPs. After finishing that SMP with a 3.7+ you can try to apply (you now have demonstrated that you can take the rigor of med school and are not likely to dropout.)
However, since you will never impress adcoms with your GPA, you will have to attract them with either very good ECs or a killer MCAT.

 

[ScriptFlip]

How many of the pre reqs did you take??

A lot, unfortunately. I got A's in the beginning, until family issues and life caused me to fail. If I could take these again, I could easily get A's.

CHEM1,2,3
BIO 1,2,3
OCHEM 1,2
PHYS 1

I wish there was a way to reset my undergrad transcript 🙁

 

[CHoge25]

A lot, unfortunately. I got A's in the beginning, until family issues and life caused me to fail. If I could take these again, I could easily get A's.

CHEM1,2,3
BIO 1,2,3
OCHEM 1,2
PHYS 1

I wish there was a way to reset my undergrad transcript 🙁

So pretty much have taken every pre-req minus PHYS 2.... Is your end goal to become a MD? DO? Any preference?

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

So pretty much have taken every pre-req minus PHYS 2.... Is your end goal to become a MD? DO? Any preference?

He/she has a preference for MD

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

I wish there was a way to reset my undergrad transcript 🙁

That's exactly what DO grade replacement is (that's why everyone is recommending it).
Do you know about it?

 

[CHoge25]

He/she has a preference for MD

Woops, missed that! Okay OP than I agree that you should go to your state college for a year, take PHYS 2 and upper level Bio courses (if you feel ready to take them)..... you need to get that sGPA above 3.0 and kill the MCAT... your SAT score shows you very smart, although it does not directly correlate to the MCAT by any means it does show you have the raw potential to do it.
-This is the longer, more riskier route. It is important that you know your goals. on top of getting top grades and MCAT score for your situation, you will need to start getting some EC's. Realistically this could be a 3-4+ year process.

The D.O Route.......
-retake the classes you did poorest in (C's or lower) and get A's in them. Take the MCAT, but you will not need to stress about it as much as MD. You will be competitive if you score well. Bust your a$$ in med school and get the best residency you can.
-much shorter/cheaper route.

 

[ScriptFlip]

So pretty much have taken every pre-req minus PHYS 2.... Is your end goal to become a MD? DO? Any preference?

I'd like to be an MD. In that regard, this is a little off topic, but is there any benefit that comes with being a DO? From what I know, DOs are seen by people and doctors as second class and looked down upon. I genuinely enjoy medicine, and I enjoyed shadowing doctors earlier in my undergrad years. Despite this, many people go into medicine for the prestige; and it seems like DOs receive little, if any respect, especially from MDs. I personally respect DOs, MDs, and everyone, but I don't want to work in an environment where I'd be looked down upon simply because I made bad choices when I was younger.

 

[CHoge25]

I'd like to be an MD. In that regard, this is a little off topic, but is there any benefit that comes with being a DO? From what I know, DOs are seen by people and doctors as second class and looked down upon. I genuinely enjoy medicine, and I enjoyed shadowing doctors earlier in my undergrad years. Despite this, many people go into medicine for the prestige; and it seems like DOs receive little, if any respect, especially from MDs. I personally respect DOs, MDs, and everyone, but I don't want to work in an environment where I'd be looked down upon simply because I made bad choices when I was younger.

If I was you I would read up on DO and seriously consider it. You are a little off base with what you are saying, but yes DO have been fighting the stigma of the past. Then again, there are some environments where MD & DO don't matter and everyone gets along fine. If you do not have your heart set on being a neurosurgeon, I would go DO... save time, money, and give yourself the best chance to be a doctor. After that it is what you make it

 

[ScriptFlip]

That's exactly what DO grade replacement is (that's why everyone is recommending it).
Do you know about it?

Yes, I do, but DOs seem under-appreciated and disrespected by MDs and the general population in a sector where many people enter due to the prestige it offers.

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

I'd like to be an MD. In that regard, this is a little off topic, but is there any benefit that comes with being a DO? From what I know, DOs are seen by people and doctors as second class and looked down upon. I genuinely enjoy medicine, and I enjoyed shadowing doctors earlier in my undergrad years. Despite this, many people go into medicine for the prestige; and it seems like DOs receive little, if any respect, especially from MDs. I personally respect DOs, MDs, and everyone, but I don't want to work in an environment where I'd be looked down upon simply because I made bad choices when I was younger.

The great majority of MD's treat DO's as equals (because they are). Only jerks would ever do the opposite.
DO stigma is becoming more and more rare as the years go by.

 

[CHoge25]

Yes, I do, but DOs seem under-appreciated and disrespected by MDs and the general population in a sector where many people enter due to the prestige it offers.

Are you entering medicine for prestige or because you want to be a doctor? Do you want some tag next to your name to say "look I'm better than you because I went to school X compared to Y" or do you want to have a job where you get to help people and make a difference in peoples lives. Just because you are MD does not mean you are a better doctor than a DO, not even close.

Usually I would say shoot for the stars, OP. But you do have to play with the cards you are dealt, and DO route is the smartest/most efficient for you.

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

Time to bring in the big guns @Goro @gyngyn
In case you don't know OP, these are medical school faculty members and part of admission committees.

 

[ScriptFlip]

Woops, missed that! Okay OP than I agree that you should go to your state college for a year, take PHYS 2 and upper level Bio courses (if you feel ready to take them)..... you need to get that sGPA above 3.0 and kill the MCAT... your SAT score shows you very smart, although it does not directly correlate to the MCAT by any means it does show you have the raw potential to do it.
-This is the longer, more riskier route. It is important that you know your goals. on top of getting top grades and MCAT score for your situation, you will need to start getting some EC's. Realistically this could be a 3-4+ year process.

The D.O Route.......
-retake the classes you did poorest in (C's or lower) and get A's in them. Take the MCAT, but you will not need to stress about it as much as MD. You will be competitive if you score well. Bust your a$$ in med school and get the best residency you can.
-much shorter/cheaper route.

Thanks for your help so far, I really appreciate it. If I were to pursue an MD and follow your suggestion, should I apply to postbaccs/SMPs after?

 

[ScriptFlip]

.

 

[CHoge25]

Thanks for your help so far, I really appreciate it. If I were to pursue an MD and follow your suggestion, should I apply to postbaccs/SMPs after?

SMP would be the best route. But you need a 3.0 and a good MCAT to be eligible. So this may include doing a year of classes (PHYS 2 + maybe 5-6 upper level bio courses) and then studying for MCAT and scoring very well. This may be a 1-2 year process. Also, I do not know if SMPs have requirements that would screen you out if you got say a D in a pre-req or something. I would check websites, I know Cincinnati has one I would browse the website just to see.

 

[ScriptFlip]

Time to bring in the big guns @Goro @gyngyn
In case you don't know OP, these are medical school faculty members and part of admission committees.

Thanks, I really appreciate that you're taking this much time to help me. 🙂

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

Thanks, I really appreciate that you're taking this much time to help me. 🙂

No issue. I received a lot of help from SDN before I applied (and during my cycle). Always glad to "pay it forward".

 

[Goro]

Post-bacs and SMPs are a dime--dozen. They don't care about how many science hrs you have; many of them are for career cvhangers to give you the pre-reqs; others are for GPA repair.

Not all of them require the MCAT.

You can also do a post-bac DIY.

Your fastest path to being a doctor is the retake all F/D/C science coursework and apply to DO schools.

Hey, I don't know if this is the right subsection to post my question. Sorry if it's not.

I was a bio major for the first 2 years of undergrad, and was doing well. In my 2nd and 3rd years however, I failed/received low grades in my med school pre-reqs (due to unfortunate circumstance, as well as my immaturity) and was subsequently forced out of my major. At the same time, I decided against being a doctor. Now that I have graduated with a economics degree, I have been reconsidering the option, but know that my previous record will hold me back. (I would like to at least try for an MD instead of a DO)

I want to try getting into a postbacc program (for career changers), but I think I have taken too many science courses to apply. At the same time, I don't know if an informal postbacc will help me; nor can I apply for an SMP because I have not taken the MCAT. When I was put in the effort, I excelled at my science courses, so I know that medical school is doable. Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me? I want to fix the mistakes I made when I was too immature to set my priorities straight. Could I even apply for a postbacc? I have also heard SMPs are an option, but I have gone so long without taking the pre-reqs that I will probably end up with a low MCAT score. Conversely, I know I could do great on the MCAT if I could brush up on my science. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to begin? I know that informal postbaccs are possible, but I feel as if I will be unable to enroll in the courses I need in a timely manner. Thanks for your help.

TLDR: made a lot of mistakes, do not know if I can fix it/ where to begin fixing my situation. Which program should I shoot for so that I can attempt to become an MD.

sGPA 2.65, cGPA 3.1 majorGPA 3.7, SAT 2350

 

[Mwooster]

From what I know, DOs are seen by people and doctors as second class and looked down upon.

Hate to be blunt, OP, but beggars cannot be choosers. Except on my street, where beggars routinely refuse to eat vegetarian pizzas.

You are currently being 'looked down upon" by the all American med schools, both MD and DO with your poor grades. If practicing medicine is what you want to do, then be grateful if a DO school gives you a shot in their matriculating class 3+ years down the road.

 

[ScriptFlip]

Post-bacs and SMPs are a dime--dozen. They don't care about how many science hrs you have; many of them are for career cvhangers to give you the pre-reqs; others are for GPA repair.

Not all of them require the MCAT.

You can also do a post-bac DIY.

Your fastest path to being a doctor is the retake all F/D/C science coursework and apply to DO schools.

Thanks! You said they don't care about how many science hours I have, but will the fact that I have not completed all my pre-reqs bar me from GPA repair post-baccs? If I were to do a DIY post-bac, should just enroll as a non-degree seeking student at the state university closest to me, or should I enroll at a more renowned school? Additionally, I know this may not be your area of expertise, but are loans available for DIY Post-baccs? Or would I have to pay out of pocket? Thanks again for your time.

PS Do you have a estimated timeline of how long it will take me to retake my science courses and when I could consider applying to med. school? (I'd have to retake 4, if I should also retake C+'s; 3 if not) If retaking the courses does not place my sGPA into a competitive range, what else could I do to boost it? Should I take other science courses that are not pre-reqs?
(sGPA for DO = 2.69; assuming I get all A's when I retake courses it will be 3.61... I'd also have to take Ochem 3 to finish my pre-reqs)

 

[ScriptFlip]

Are you entering medicine for prestige or because you want to be a doctor? Do you want some tag next to your name to say "look I'm better than you because I went to school X compared to Y" or do you want to have a job where you get to help people and make a difference in peoples lives. Just because you are MD does not mean you are a better doctor than a DO, not even close.

Usually I would say shoot for the stars, OP. But you do have to play with the cards you are dealt, and DO route is the smartest/most efficient for you.

Yea, I understand that, but as far as I know, DOs often do not get into the residencies they want. So there are many reasons I would rather not be a DO. It seems to me that MDs, who are the ones that say you should be in the field if you have a passion for helping people, are also often the ones who perpetuate the stereotype that DOs are beneath them. I'd love to help people, but there are many careers offer that opportunity (and many are not regulated to who they can help due to insurance policies). I firmly believe that the janitor who cleans the restrooms at the hospital are just as important as the MDs, but I have seen too many doctors act superior to others to willingly subjugate myself to that as a DO. I'm open to the idea of becoming a DO, and am considering it; but no one wants to enter a field where they will be treated like that. (in addition to getting the short end of the stick when it comes to residencies and job placement; I'd rather live in a city than in rural areas)

 

[CHoge25]

Yea, I understand that, but as far as I know, DOs often do not get into the residencies they want. So there are many reasons I would rather not be a DO. It seems to me that MDs, who are the ones that say you should be in the field if you have a passion for helping people, are also often the ones who perpetuate the stereotype that DOs are beneath them. I'd love to help people, but there are many careers offer that opportunity (and many are not regulated to who they can help due to insurance policies). I firmly believe that the janitor who cleans the restrooms at the hospital are just as important as the MDs, but I have seen too many doctors act superior to others to willingly subjugate myself to that as a DO. I'm open to the idea of becoming a DO, and am considering it; but no one wants to enter a field where they will be treated like that. (in addition to getting the short end of the stick when it comes to residencies and job placement; I'd rather live in a city than in rural areas)

If I was you I would get in contact with DO's, and shadow them. See what their daily interactions are like. Pick their brains. Ask them about residency match and this "stigma" they deal with. Many of them will tell you that where they work it does not matter that you are DO or MD, you are Doctor. I understand not wanting to limit yourself but you have already limited yourself by your undergraduate record. you still seem very uninformed about the life of a DO and for your situation it is really the only option that makes sense. Doctors are people that make good and smart decisions and for your case it would be to take the DO route. It is nothing to look down upon, it should be a journey you are excited about because you will start your path to practicing medicine.

You have to play the card you have already and trying to go MD is not a smart call in your situation. But again this is just my opinion and I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide!!

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

Go to your local (cheap)state school (You'll probably have to pay out of pocket), and start taking classes.
Whether you want to go MD and DO, this step is still the same. Eventually you can make your decision on which route you want to take. You can always aim for MD and if that doesn't work you can try to go DO.

 

[Goro]

No.
You said they don't care about how many science hours I have, but will the fact that I have not completed all my pre-reqs bar me from GPA repair post-baccs?

Yes
If I were to do a DIY post-bac, should just enroll as a non-degree seeking student at the state university closest to me?

Probably
Additionally, I know this may not be your area of expertise, but are loans available for DIY Post-baccs?

Totally on you and your course load. keep in mind that for MD schools, they do not practice grade replacement; they average all the retakes and the originals.


PS Do you have a estimated timeline of how long it will take me to retake my science courses and when I could consider applying to med. school? (I'd have to retake 4, if I should also retake C+'s; 3 if not)

Yes
If retaking the courses does not place my sGPA into a competitive range, what else could I do to boost it? Should I take other science courses that are not pre-reqs?


Keep in mind that beggars can't be choosy. About 30% of DOs do get get into specialties.

 

[runlolarun23]

From my understanding, formal postbacc programs are for career changers who don't have many of the pre-reqs taken care of. I am a non-trad postbacc student aiming to get into an MD program. My undergrad was meh - major in Env Studies, minor in Bio, gpa 3.2. For the past 1.5 years , I've been taking CC classes part time and getting A's. I was able to get loans for this, otherwise going back to school wouldn't have been an option for me. Don't rush it. Take your time and do well in the classes you take. For me, DIY postbacc is the way to go because I can take all of the classes that I feel will make me the best candidate I can be (Med Ethics, Pathophysioloy, Genetics). The formal postbacc program couldn't compare since I've already taken basic Bio, Stats, etc. If you're looking for a place to begin, I suggest taking a couple comm. college classes. That is what I did; it had been ten years since I was in school and was unsure how it would be for me. I know taking comm. college classes comes with its own stigma but that is what works for me (the classes have been just as robust as my undergrad courses). I needed the availability of night classes and daytime childcare. Plus its cheaper.

 

[ScriptFlip]

From my understanding, formal postbacc programs are for career changers who don't have many of the pre-reqs taken care of. I am a non-trad postbacc student aiming to get into an MD program. My undergrad was meh - major in Env Studies, minor in Bio, gpa 3.2. For the past 1.5 years , I've been taking CC classes part time and getting A's. I was able to get loans for this, otherwise going back to school wouldn't have been an option for me. Don't rush it. Take your time and do well in the classes you take. For me, DIY postbacc is the way to go because I can take all of the classes that I feel will make me the best candidate I can be (Med Ethics, Pathophysioloy, Genetics). The formal postbacc program couldn't compare since I've already taken basic Bio, Stats, etc. If you're looking for a place to begin, I suggest taking a couple comm. college classes. That is what I did; it had been ten years since I was in school and was unsure how it would be for me. I know taking comm. college classes comes with its own stigma but that is what works for me (the classes have been just as robust as my undergrad courses). I needed the availability of night classes and daytime childcare. Plus its cheaper.

Where/how are you getting research, extracirriculars, etc. done? I keep hearing that research is instrumental to getting into Med/DO schools. Also, as far as I know, most med schools seem to not accept science coursework from CCs, do you have any suggestions regarding this?

 

[runlolarun23]

The only pre-req that wouldnt be accepted at CC level would be Biochem (from what I've seen anyway). No reason why my physics or orgo classes wouldn't 'count'. The CC biochem class was 100 level class and most med schools would like to see upper level. I worked in a lab for 5 years in R&D, so I've got that solid experience.