Confusion about Pre-Requisites

[deleted1136042]

At my UG, we are able to skip both Gen Bio 1 + 2 with AP Biology credit. I was always told that I shouldn't use AP credit, but as a Bio major, I'm going to be taking harder biology classes anyways (e.g. Genetics, Physiology). My school already does this really weird thing were we have 1 semester of Gen Chem + 2 semesters of Organic + 1 semester of Biochem (but we label the first semester of Organic on AMCAS as Gen Chem 2), so I was wondering if I could just do the same with my biology courses? Basically skip out of Gen Bio 1 & 2, and label my genetics and physiology courses as Gen Bio 1 and 2.

The only reason why I am even considering this at this point is because medical schools like Yale have advised "Students entering college with a strong background in the sciences, as demonstrated by advanced placement, are encouraged to substitute advanced science courses for the traditional requirements listed above." Therefore, if I am able to skip Gen Bio 1 & 2, should I skip them and replace them with my genetics and physiology courses instead?

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[GoSpursGo]

I would not do this. On a basic level, you’re punting on a chance to get two good science grades, and also solidify your foundation for those upper level courses. Unless retaking gen bio results in you extending graduation, I would just take the courses.

I don’t really buy that anyone will ding you for retaking, if they even notice the AP credit at all

 

[Med Ed]

Yale is just encouraging more people to weed themselves out.

The smart student takes the AP courses in high school, then essentially retakes them as intro courses in freshman year of college, and banks an easy 4.0 in the process. Once your GPA gets set in the first year it becomes really hard to move (in either direction). Use that to your advantage.

The not-so-smart student walks directly into upper level courses, and either gets massacred outright or has to fight much harder than necessary to keep their GPA above water. A few years later they're on SDN asking for advice on a DIY post-bacc versus SMP.

 

[sciencehistorian]

If you are thinking of the same school I'm thinking of, then I wouldn't advise this path—the intro bio courses are frankly rubbish, but they introduce you to the style of (not so great...) teaching and assessment that will be maintained in upper level coursework and it's better to be adjusted to that style on easier lower division coursework than upper division topics. You shouldn't be in a particular rush, anyway, unless you want to graduate early or double major.

Do pay close attention to who's instructing the class and their previous semester grade distributions. The curves are brutal and unfortunately not easy As, but some curves are kinder than others.

 

[deleted1136042]

If you are thinking of the same school I'm thinking of, then I wouldn't advise this path—the intro bio courses are frankly rubbish, but they introduce you to the style of (not so great...) teaching and assessment that will be maintained in upper level coursework and it's better to be adjusted to that style on easier lower division coursework than upper division topics. You shouldn't be in a particular rush, anyway, unless you want to graduate early or double major.

Do pay close attention to who's instructing the class and their previous semester grade distributions. The curves are brutal and unfortunately not easy As, but some curves are kinder than others.

Definitely outed myself as a Berkeley student. Never heard so many bad things about Mike in my life... but that's fair. It's just I can graduate a semester early if I skip out of 1A/1B. Could I PM for more questions?

 

[chilly_md]

Berkeley is definitely not a school I’d recommend skipping ahead in.

 

[sciencehistorian]

Definitely outed myself as a Berkeley student. Never heard so many bad things about Mike in my life... but that's fair. It's just I can graduate a semester early if I skip out of 1A/1B. Could I PM for more questions?

Sure.

 

[eigen]

IME, the risk/reward almost never benefits using AP credit to skip out of relevant coursework.

Having some good "review" classes in that first semester both helps you re-tread material that you will be seeing again on the MCAT, and have some potentially easier classes as you're adjusting to college.

One huge change from HS (including AP) to college is pace and how much self-regulation/motivation/organization is needed to do well.

I'd also be super careful of labeling your first semester OChem as "Gen Chem II". For one, that will cause issues for you with schools that want to see two semesters of OChem. For another.... Organic and General chemistry don't cover the same content. It's much more common to label an inorganic or qual. analytical class as "Gen Chem II".

 

[deleted1136042]

IME, the risk/reward almost never benefits using AP credit to skip out of relevant coursework.

Having some good "review" classes in that first semester both helps you re-tread material that you will be seeing again on the MCAT, and have some potentially easier classes as you're adjusting to college.

One huge change from HS (including AP) to college is pace and how much self-regulation/motivation/organization is needed to do well.

I'd also be super careful of labeling your first semester OChem as "Gen Chem II". For one, that will cause issues for you with schools that want to see two semesters of OChem. For another.... Organic and General chemistry don't cover the same content. It's much more common to label an inorganic or qual. analytical class as "Gen Chem II".

Thanks for the response. I'll prolly end up taking Gen Bio, but the statement about not classifying OChem 1 as Gen Chem II is unavoidable, as that's the sequence my school follows.

Sure.

On second hand, I love being ghosted by someone at my to be Alma Mater

 

[eigen]

Thanks for the response. I'll prolly end up taking Gen Bio, but the statement about not classifying OChem 1 as Gen Chem II is unavoidable, as that's the sequence my school follows.

The sequence your school follows doesn't matter. General chemistry and organic chemistry are two different sets of subject matter.

Even in schools where students start with organic chemistry, they don't classify it as General Chemistry I/II. This is why a lot of schools say 1 year of "inorganic" chemistry instead of 1-year of general chemistry. Same when schools only have a single semester General Chemistry course. Students can either reach out to schools (many will accept a single semester course) OR those students need to take an inorganic/analytical course to satisfy the requirement.

Unless your school literally lists Organic Chemistry I as "General Chemistry II", you should not change it for AMCAS.

Also, Berkeley absolutely does have a second semester of general chemistry, you would just need to take it as an elective.

 

[deleted1136042]

The sequence your school follows doesn't matter. General chemistry and organic chemistry are two different sets of subject matter.

Even in schools where students start with organic chemistry, they don't classify it as General Chemistry I/II. This is why a lot of schools say 1 year of "inorganic" chemistry instead of 1-year of general chemistry. Same when schools only have a single semester General Chemistry course. Students can either reach out to schools (many will accept a single semester course) OR those students need to take an inorganic/analytical course to satisfy the requirement.

Unless your school literally lists Organic Chemistry I as "General Chemistry II", you should not change it for AMCAS.

Also, Berkeley absolutely does have a second semester of general chemistry, you would just need to take it as an elective.

Okay I really appreciate this advice, but if you are not a Berkeley student, you really cannot advise on this. Our Pre-Health Office explicitly tells us to list Chem 3A (Orgo I) as Gen Chem II, since we do not need to take Chem 1B (Gen Chem II). I am more than happy to discuss this with you over DMs, but all of this info is available online.

 

[eigen]

Okay I really appreciate this advice, but if you are not a Berkeley student, you really cannot advise on this. Our Pre-Health Office explicitly tells us to list Chem 3A (Orgo I) as Gen Chem II, since we do not need to take Chem 1B (Gen Chem II). I am more than happy to discuss this with you over DMs, but all of this info is available online.

Then your pre-health office is wrong (or you're misunderstanding them), and it will absolutely cause some students difficulty. And the information from Berkeley online is that the sequence (gen chem / organic I/II / biochem) will count for "many" medical schools. That's different than recategorizing your organic chemistry course as an inorganic chemistry course. Many medical schools will accept 1 semester of gen chem / 2 semesters of OChem / 1 semester of biochem as meeting their requirements already. But schools with a strict "8 hours of inorganic chemistry" requirement will not consider organic or biochemistry a substitute, and you'd need to take inorganic/analytical or take 1B as an elective.

The fact that you think I "can't talk because I'm not a Berkeley student" when this is my discipline (I'm a chemistry professor) and I've got a lot of experience advising students at schools with similar sequences suggests that you're either overly sure that "Berkeley" can never get anything wrong, or you haven't read posts on here from former students who got rejected from schools because of this advice / not having a second semester of inorganic chemistry. There's also a reason you see posts on here from former Berkeley students saying they highly recommend taking 1B because it will open up more schools for you and help with the MCAT.

Either way, I'm not sure why people post here and then want to argue with advice they're given, but you're the one taking the risk of being rejected from schools, so it's up to you to decide who you want to listen to.

 

[sciencehistorian]

On second hand, I love being ghosted by someone at my to be Alma Mater

A lack of response for four weekdays is not ghosting.

I did not take Chem 1B and was successful with a somewhat top/California-heavy school list. I know there are folks who do take Chem 1B.

I have responded to your message, but please do not contact me further. I might also politely suggest that approaching future interactions with people with grace will get you much further in life than doing so with hostility.

 

[Mr. Macrophage]

Then your pre-health office is wrong (or you're misunderstanding them), and it will absolutely cause some students difficulty. And the information from Berkeley online is that the sequence (gen chem / organic I/II / biochem) will count for "many" medical schools. That's different than recategorizing your organic chemistry course as an inorganic chemistry course. Many medical schools will accept 1 semester of gen chem / 2 semesters of OChem / 1 semester of biochem as meeting their requirements already. But schools with a strict "8 hours of inorganic chemistry" requirement will not consider organic or biochemistry a substitute, and you'd need to take inorganic/analytical or take 1B as an elective.

The fact that you think I "can't talk because I'm not a Berkeley student" when this is my discipline (I'm a chemistry professor) and I've got a lot of experience advising students at schools with similar sequences suggests that you're either overly sure that "Berkeley" can never get anything wrong, or you haven't read posts on here from former students who got rejected from schools because of this advice / not having a second semester of inorganic chemistry. There's also a reason you see posts on here from former Berkeley students saying they highly recommend taking 1B because it will open up more schools for you and help with the MCAT.

Either way, I'm not sure why people post here and then want to argue with advice they're given, but you're the one taking the risk of being rejected from schools, so it's up to you to decide who you want to listen to.

To add to this, there isn't even a need to improperly label the course if you've taken biochem. The vast majority of schools accept biochem as a replacement for one semester of general chemistry. Brown has a similar situation to Berkeley, where most students skip Gen Chem 1 and go straight to Gen Chem 2. The only schools that don't accept Biochem as a replacement for Gen Chem 1, according to Brown's prehealth advising, are:

Loma Linda University College of Medicine
Louisiana State University School of Medicine in New Orleans
Marshall University- Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine
Michigan State University College of Human Medicine
Ohio State College of Medicine
Texas A&M Health Science Center College of Medicine
Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center Paul L. Foster School of Medicine
Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center- Lubbock
The University of Texas Health Science Center- San Antonio
University of Hawai’i- John A. Burns School of Medicine
University of Kentucky College of Medicine
University of Nebraska Medical Center
University of Nevada School of Medicine
University of New Mexico-HSC School of Medicine
University of Utah School of Medicine
Wayne State University School of Medicine