Considering dropping out

[voodoomagic]

As the title says, I'm considering dropping out and could really use some advice. I'm currently on leave of absence from a US medical school. For some background information, I decided to take a leave after my first year because of a severe episode of depression. I won't go into specifics, but I was suicidal and decided I needed to take a step back from school, despite doing pretty well academically. During my leave, I started seeing a counselor and psychiatrist regularly and was able to get to a relatively stable position. My psychiatrist thinks I may have bipolar disorder, so I'm currently being treated for that. Unfortunately, I've really fallen into another depression as I'm getting ready to reenter school in a couple weeks and I don't know if it was triggered by the prospect of starting school again. This has been the worst depression I've ever experience and I'm honestly just happy that I've managed to keep myself out of a psych ward.

My dilemma is that I really don't know if I want to be a doctor anymore or even can for that matter. There were some parts of my first year that I really enjoyed, but I think I was honestly pretty miserable through most of it. I know a lot of people say it gets better in your third year, but I have serious doubts about whether I can handle the stress of clerkships without falling into another cycle of depression. Part of me really thinks I should just drop out, but I already have a significant amount of student loan debt and I'm also just worried that I'll regret leaving. I've worked so hard to get to this point and I can't even imagine what I would do besides medicine.

So I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has advice for me. I've asked just about everyone in my life and I'm just desperate for help at this point.

Maybe consider psychiatry as a specialty. Being misdiagnosed is as dangerous or worse than no diagnosis.. I’ve experienced what you have, and it’s painful to field misdiagnoses. It’s actually more painful than what you’re even dealing with- depression may have caused. Tangible causes. Labeling it as BPD or anything is basically a form of “gaslighting” which actually ends up hurting you more than what you’re dealing with. It makes you want to shrivel up and not share unless it’s on anonymous forums etc. No one knows you but you. In my experience.. life’s battles add up and at some point they get you down. Life isn’t easy for most people.. at least it’s not always easy. You make some sense of it come up with your own philosophy or worldview.. and go on..
Just get to the root cause of it.. too many of us are medicated.. And beware of the effects others have on you.

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[Burnermed]

You should just leave. Your only one year in. That's a good stopping point. It only gets worse each year, and there are alot of people who wish they stopped at your point. Go find something that gives you more balance and is easier on your mental health.

 

[mdphd123j]

Ideally you could take a bit more time off, maybe work in a low stress job or something to be able to help out with finances, and focus on picking apart your med school career from your depression. If you can pick them apart and get to a better place, you may be able to continue on. If you (and your health care professionals) determine that medical school is a cause or contributing factor to your mental health condition, then maybe it's best to move on to something else.

I think a low-stress job could be very helpful, if for nothing else than to reduce your "returning-to-the-world" anxiety and restore some sense of agency. The fact that it would help a bit financially is a plus, but don't think of making money as an obligation during your LOA.

Literally set basement-level expectations for how "hard" the job needs to be, and go from there. Food service, clerical assistant, pet store employee, it doesn't matter... those are just the first things that came to my mind, but pick something that sounds mildly fun to you. And if you hate it? Quit by the end of the week. No biggie. It's not like you will need a LOR from them😏

Hang in there OP. We're rooting for you.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

We’re all different but I hope you don’t feel like having bipolar disorder is a death sentence on your career aspirations. I was diagnosed about 8 years ago. I was lucky, the symptoms went away pretty quickly when I went on medication. It might take a given person more or less time to adjust and your academic performance may be affected to some degree but your diagnosis needn’t define your ability to succeed.

That being said, it sounds like you’re having a pretty rough time in the short term. If I were you I would try to get as stable as possible before taking on school. Feel free to message me although I’m trying to stay off SDN since my second year is starting in a few days.

 

[Lem0nz]

Hey guys, I just wanted to come back and update you. I talked it over with my dean and he recommended extending my leave, as others suggested, rather than outright withdrawing. He knows I'm unlikely to return, but wants it to still be an option for me. I'm super lucky to be at a school that's been so supportive.

He also recommended that I look into careers in informatics, which I've never really considered before. I only got to use Epic a little bit over the course of my first year, but I thought it was pretty interesting. I also used to play around with Python before medical school and always enjoyed that. So I guess I was also wondering if anyone has researched/worked in informatics and might have some advice about the field and how I could explore it more? Sorry if there's a better place to ask this question.

I also just want to say thanks again for all your help. You guys made me feel a lot better about my decision/future.

Good choice. Set a date a month or two in the future that isn’t right now when you’re recovering from crisis mode and visit this topic again with your dean and/or your therapist and then make a calm and informed decision about what you want to do with your life. There are no wrong answers. You will be happy you did it the right way and deliberately rather than simply reacting.

Whatever you do, commit completely and don’t look back. Good luck friend.

 

[voodoomagic]

You should just leave. Your only one year in. That's a good stopping point. It only gets worse each year, and there are alot of people who wish they stopped at your point. Go find something that gives you more balance and is easier on your mental health.

Not really. First two years are all books. Then Residency is totally different from Rotations. Most Ortho guys hate internal medicine they respect it sure but hate it.. they don’t drop out of Med school because they have to do other things they dislike first.

 

[Lawpy]

Not really. First two years are all books. Then Residency is totally different from Rotations. Most Ortho guys hate internal medicine they respect it sure but hate it.. they don’t drop out of Med school because they have to do other things they dislike first.

Yeah but it'll get messy if OP's depression returns in clinical years because of the general suck.

 

[voodoomagic]

Yeah but it'll get messy if OP's depression returns in clinical years because of the general suck.

True. But OP is in Med school. Needs to consider alternatives.. not just a general straight up drop out. Med school followed by JD? MBA? Followed by translational research pathway to work in Pharma? It’s not something that should be chucked away lightly.. Depression.. is Depression.. unless the trigger is medical school itself..lot of people are depressed because the general suck is abound everywhere with lots of people.

 

[wholeheartedly]

There are lots of online resources to learn more about informatics. The one I‘ve seen are places like Coursera, EdX, MIT open courseware. Most of them are available free if you don’t care about the certificate.

UCSD has a highly rated bioinformatics specialization on coursera, Hopkins and Stanford have Healthcare Informatics. You can do python courses and R and whatnot many places online.

Give your brain a rest then play around with it a bit,

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

True. But OP is in Med school. Needs to consider alternatives.. not just a general straight up drop out. Med school followed by JD? MBA? Followed by translational research pathway to work in Pharma? It’s not something that should be chucked away lightly.. Depression.. is Depression.. unless the trigger is medical school itself..lot of people are depressed because the general suck is abound everywhere with lots of people.

This is bad advice for OP. It’s pretty obvious they need to be out of med school. The longer they stay, the more debt they’ll have and then more pressure they’ll feel to stick around to pay it off. In a person with a mood disorder, that’s not a great place to be.

 

[voodoomagic]

This is bad advice for OP. It’s pretty obvious they need to be out of med school. The longer they stay, the more debt they’ll have and then more pressure they’ll feel to stick around to pay it off. In a person with a mood disorder, that’s not a great place to be.

You’re telling me there are NO Physicians with mood disorders? That Physicians are all happy? Certainly, there is a point if it’s Medicine itself that’s causing it as opposed to non-clinical aspects of Medicine. But if it’s non-clinical aspects, those things are universal in every field. And much harder to deal with. In my experience most people start out bright eyed and naive about Medicine.. and love it. Later on as they learn the non-clinical realities of Medicine, that causes them issues. There are lots and lots of Physicians out there that cope with this. If you focus on them with a microscope you’ll find every Physician to have such issues. Dropping out is not the answer unless they really don’t like what they do.

It’s a truth that most Physicians are victims of an unethical system. How to navigate that system is what needs to be the point of discussion.

Changing the system is impossible.

OP, just search Mood Disorder or Depression in Physicians. It’s rampant. Most of us realize reality from ideal, late or mid-career. That’s when these issues typically arise. But when they occur in Med school, generally stressful but also a time of camaraderie and exploration and fun, well you may have Depression. You may be depressed no matter what. That’s different. Don’t give up your Med School so easily (although I will warn you to fully explore the specialty selection of training as in the political and economic aspects of them because they’ll be the bigger headache and cause turmoil for you and instability to your family).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You’re telling me there are NO Physicians with mood disorders? That Physicians are all happy? Certainly, there is a point if it’s Medicine itself that’s causing it as opposed to non-clinical aspects of Medicine. But if it’s non-clinical aspects, those things are universal in every field. And much harder to deal with. In my experience most people start out bright eyed and naive about Medicine.. and love it. Later on as they learn the non-clinical realities of Medicine, that causes them issues. There are lots and lots of Physicians out there that cope with this. If you focus on them with a microscope you’ll find every Physician to have such issues. Dropping out is not the answer unless they really don’t like what they do.

It’s a truth that most Physicians are victims of an unethical system. How to navigate that system is what needs to be the point of discussion.

Changing the system is impossible.

OP, just search Mood Disorder or Depression in Physicians. It’s rampant. Most of us realize reality from ideal, late or mid-career. That’s when these issues typically arise. But when they occur in Med school, generally stressful but also a time of camaraderie and exploration and fun, well you may have Depression. You may be depressed no matter what. That’s different. Don’t give up your Med School so easily (although I will warn you to fully explore the specialty selection of training as in the political and economic aspects of them because they’ll be the bigger headache and cause turmoil for you and instability to your family).

Holy logical fallacies Batman.

 

[voodoomagic]

Holy logical fallacies Batman.

Wait?! How’d you know I am Batman?!


Come on at least break down the argument rather than offer an opinion.
I’d venture neither you nor I are qualified to answer it.

But if OP says Medicine is causing his issues, then quitting is the answer. If it’s other life issues, then quitting won’t help. That’s the essence of what I am saying. What’s illogical about that?

But I do like your condescending know it all response.

OP should also beware to not let his or her feelings out too much because the stigma alone may cost him/her what they always wanted to do.

OP- seek out discrete in-person counseling/advice. Don’t give up your course unless you’ve nailed it down that’s the reason for your melancholy.

Don’t listen to opinionated quacks like us posers on this forum. Seriously.. despite all that’s advertised opening up can cause them to force you out.. you’d be too much of a liability and you may be left without choices.

Physicians, a lot of us, tend to come from privileged backgrounds and not entirely understand your struggles.

And for serious issues like yours, don’t resort to this forum. You’ve got a lot to lose. Try outside counseling- don’t go to people in your medical school.. that’s my opinion. It’s more privacy for you.

 

[MedMentalHealth]

Wait?! How’d you know I am Batman?!


Come on at least break down the argument rather than offer an opinion.
I’d venture neither you nor I are qualified to answer it.

But if OP says Medicine is causing his issues, then quitting is the answer. If it’s other life issues, then quitting won’t help. That’s the essence of what I am saying. What’s illogical about that?

But I do like your condescending know it all response.

OP should also beware to not let his or her feelings out too much because the stigma alone may cost him/her what they always wanted to do.

OP- seek out discrete in-person counseling/advice. Don’t give up your course unless you’ve nailed it down that’s the reason for your melancholy.

Don’t listen to opinionated quacks like us posers on this forum. Seriously.. despite all that’s advertised opening up can cause them to force you out.. you’d be too much of a liability and you may be left without choices.

Physicians, a lot of us, tend to come from privileged backgrounds and not entirely understand your struggles.

And for serious issues like yours, don’t resort to this forum. You’ve got a lot to lose. Try outside counseling- don’t go to people in your medical school.. that’s my opinion. It’s more privacy for you.

I really genuinely appreciate the advice. During my leave I'm going to put a lot of thought into what's causing my episodes. If I decide that medicine isn't causing the triggers, I may still return. I definitely don't want to throw away any opportunities, like you said.

I will say though that I've already opened up quite a bit to the medical school. I meet with my dean every couple of weeks to discuss how things are going, on top of regular outside counseling/psychiatry appointments. I may be a little naïve about the situation, but I've never had the impression that they wanted to force me out. It seems like they genuinely care about my wellbeing. They've offered to help me access resources through the school (i.e. counseling) and make any accommodations that I need. And like I said, my dean actually persuaded me to take a leave rather than withdrawing because he wanted me to still have the option to continue . This could be totally unique to my school, so I don't know what other students should do if they find themselves in a similar situation, but I thought I would put my experience out there. For all I know, they may just be concerned about the liability of not doing anything if something were to happen to me, but I don't feel like that's the case.

Again, I really appreciate your advice and will definitely take it into consideration.

 

[thepoopologist]

Either what you gain > what you lose or what you lose > what you gain. Your definition of lose or gain, now and ten years from now. Time to do some serious self examination.

 

[voodoomagic]

Good luck.

Be aware that the general mental state of the country hasn’t been that great for quite some time now. Separate the forest from the trees.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Not really. First two years are all books. Then Residency is totally different from Rotations. Most Ortho guys hate internal medicine they respect it sure but hate it.. they don’t drop out of Med school because they have to do other things they dislike first.

You don’t develop severe depression and anxiety from doing something you dislike. You develop it if the circumstance is too much for your mental health to handle.

there’s a lot of stress in the medical education system. Sure once you’re an attending you can mitigate some of the stress, but there are limits.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to equate unbearable stress to having to put up with a rotation or year of work you simply don’t enjoy.

 

[UrbanMidwest]

Just want to add that if you do ultimately make the decision to leave that it's okay. There are multiple paths in life that allow one to make a good life (however we define that) and to contribute to society, with some with decent pay. You may not become a physician, but then I again I can think of greater tragedies and disappointments one can go through that I wouldn't wish on them.

Take the needed time off, reassess and make a plan, be it continuation of your medical studies or off to a new adventure.

And I'm fully aware of what I just said on a site mainly used by those within the field of medicine.

 

[Lawpy]

Just want to add that if you do ultimately make the decision to leave that it's okay. There are multiple paths in life that allow one to make a good life (however we define that) and to contribute to society, with some with decent pay. You may not become a physician, but then I again I can think of greater tragedies and disappointments one can go through that I wouldn't wish on them.

Take the needed time off, reassess and make a plan, be it continuation of your medical studies or off to a new adventure.

And I'm fully aware of what I just said on a site mainly used by those within the field of medicine.

Telling people it's okay to consider alternative paths is actually pretty common on SDN. I don't usually see doctors happy with their jobs on the forums because... they're busy enjoying their jobs.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Telling people it's okay to consider alternative paths is actually pretty common on SDN. I don't usually see doctors happy with their jobs on the forums because... they're busy enjoying their jobs.

I don’t know. When I’m stuck at the hospital doing an ICU shift or waiting for a case to start and have downtime, I’ll post on SDN. Not to vent, but because I have downtime.

I think most of us with a life outside of work realize that there’s more to life than a job/career/title. For those who can be a doctor while maintaining their sanity, great! There’s a lot to enjoy in medicine. For those on the verge of a nervous breakdown from the stress of school/training/the actual job of being a doctor, looking for an alternative is not only ok, but probably a must.