Convince Me To Go Do

[Doc Henry]

Like a lot of people I always thought of becoming a doctor as getting an MD....I am open to the idea of DO especially since I've had the benefits of spinal manipulation from my grandpa who went to DO school.

I guess I just need encouragment that DO is the way to go. I have been losing faith in a lot of doctors and part of me feels like a DO school might restore that faith with their attitude toward finding the root of a problem rather than just treating a symptom.

So..I'm on the fence- convince me please! Oh and dont use easier to get into as a reason! Thats my least favorite thing to hear.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Dr JPH]

Like a lot of people I always thought of becoming a doctor as getting an MD....I am open to the idea of DO especially since I've had the benefits of spinal manipulation from my grandpa who went to DO school.

I guess I just need encouragment that DO is the way to go. I have been losing faith in a lot of doctors and part of me feels like a DO school might restore that faith with their attitude toward finding the root of a problem rather than just treating a symptom.

So..I'm on the fence- convince me please! Oh and dont use easier to get into as a reason! Thats my least favorite thing to hear.

Why do you need to be convinced?

What do you want to hear?

"Convince me that I should become a well trained physician."

"Convince me that I should dedicate my professional life to improving the health and well being of thousand of my patients."

Sorry, but if you need to be "sold" on the idea of going to DO school then you are better off not going.

Retake the MCAT and try AMCAS again.

 

[Doc Henry]

I'm not saying I can't get into MD schools. I just dont know if I want to. I thought that a forum full of people who chose DO schools would be encouraging.

I guess I should have asked you to tell my why you chose DO.

 

[RAD11]

Nobody should need to encourage you to go DO. After doing some research about DOs, you should just know.

 

[Jack Daniel]

I'm not saying I can't get into MD schools. I just dont know if I want to. I thought that a forum full of people who chose DO schools would be encouraging.

I guess I should have asked you to tell my why you chose DO.

I thought the lines in "MD" were too angular and harsh and preferred the smooth, rounded curves of a "DO". Since the degrees are pretty much equal, this reason is as good as any.

 

[Doc Henry]

thanks for the help...so glad i have this forum during the difficult process of applying to med school. Serious answers anyone?

 

[Dr JPH]

I'm not saying I can't get into MD schools. I just dont know if I want to.

There you go. You answered it yourself. You dont want to be an MD.

See how helpful I am?

DOs...helping those who help themselves.

 

[Dr JPH]

thanks for the help...so glad i have this forum during the difficult process of applying to med school. Serious answers anyone?

What are you looking for?

You want to know what websites to go to to apply? no problem.

You want to know what to say during an interview? Ok.

You want to know about OMT. I can help.

But to say "convince me that I should become a DO" is a ridiculous question.

I never said "convince me that I should become a surgeon." Its what I wanted to do. It fit me. It fit my personality. It fit my lifestyle. It is what I WANTED, not what someone sold me on.

Just the fact that you are asking that question poses another one...why bother going through the 'difficult process of applying to medical school' if you yoruself arent sure enough to NOT have to ask?

 

[Doc Henry]

I have always been sure I wanted to be a doctor. Lately though, I have just seen so many negative aspect of medicine. I just want to make sure that i pic the path that will give me the best tools to try and change some of the things I don't like.

I think you are right though, I have already answered my question. I seem to have a lot more positive thoughts about DOs and increasingly negative thoughts about MDs. I guess I just wanted a little encouragment.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I have always been sure I wanted to be a doctor. Lately though, I have just seen so many negative aspect of medicine. I just want to make sure that i pic the path that will give me the best tools to try and change some of the things I don't like.

I think you are right though, I have already answered my question. I seem to have a lot more positive thoughts about DOs and increasingly negative thoughts about MDs. I guess I just wanted a little encouragment.

are you sure you want to be a doctor? DOs for the most part don't have negative feelings/thoughts for MDs.

 

[Dr JPH]

I guess I just wanted a little encouragment.

You have to do what feels right and what is best for you. None of us know you at all so there is no way we can encourage you to go into something that you may later regret.

Every physician has, at some point, been frustrated with the current state of the medical system. Its part of the job. Unfortunately, it may never change. It will likely get worse.

If thats enough to keep you from becoming a physician then perhaps the time and money spent on achieving that goal isnt worth it to you.

 

[Jack Daniel]

I assume you're certain of medicine as a career and you're only asking why should you go 'DO'.

If you have, or may have, an interest in manipulation (perhaps because of your grandfather's experience), go DO. The training is completely "built-in" as a DO.

If you haven't got a strong interest in manual medicine, then apply to both types of schools. If you get any acceptances, then visit them all and choose based on price, location or whatever.

If, however, you're not sure of medicine, then do this:
Think of anything else you'd rather do and do it. If nothing else comes to mind, you're ready to apply to medical school.

 

[Doc Henry]

Yes I'm sure I want to be a doctor

Clarification: negative thoughts toward the way many MDs are choosing to practice

I admit that DOs can have bad practices as well

Now I'm done talking...its not getting me anywhere. I'll just ask my question

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE DO over MD???

 

[Dr JPH]

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE DO over MD???

Better.

 

[Doc Henry]

I assume you're certain of medicine as a career and you're only asking why should you go 'DO'.

If you have, or may have, an interest in manipulation (perhaps because of your grandfather's experience), go DO. The training is completely "built-in" as a DO.

If you haven't got a strong interest in manual medicine, then apply to both types of schools. If you get any acceptances, then visit them all and choose based on price, location or whatever.

If, however, you're not sure of medicine, then do this:
Think of anything else you'd rather do and do it. If nothing else comes to mind, you're ready to apply to medical school.

Thank you! I like your advice about applying to both and appreciate that you aren't questioning my desire to be a doctor considering I never once said I might not want to be a doctor.

 

[Navicular]

Theres really no reason to choose MD over DO or vice versa. The schooling is almost identical and actual practice is also almost identical (look at the DOs in allopathic residencies... they're doing just fine). Pick the school that you like the best, be it MD or DO. Theres no reason for harsh sentiment toward each other. It's true that at one point MDs were far superior than DOs, but times change and DOs have proven that they can do the job as well as any MD.

 

[Nate]

Medical school will be the same except you will have an extra class one afternoon a week (OMM) and a history of Osteopathy mixed in there somewhere; you'll still suffer through Biochem, Physio, Histo, Genetics, Path, Medicine, Anatomy, Pharm, Micro etc. etc. The exact same classes as an MD school with the exact same types of professors with the exact same national equalizer, the licensing exams. You may have a bit more or less patient exposure and some community medicine type classes depending on which school you go to regardless of what degree they grant. 3rd and 4th year you will have medicine, surgery, OB/GYN, ER, pediatrics, geriatrics, psych, etc. etc. and whatever electives you chose, probably most anywhere you want to do them.

Different schools will have different curriculum types which may or may not foster competitiveness in the students, may or may not charge an arm and a leg for the same education, and may or may not offer resources beyond what you need. That has nothing to do with the degree that it grants.

In the end, it is your personality and character which will determine what type of doc you will be, not the degree. If you want to be a leader, want to follow your own principles, and want to improve the way health care is served in our country then it will be up to you to do the work, or not. No degree will empower you with those traits, but either degree will allow you to practice medicine in any specialty you chose to work for.

Good luck with your choice

 

[Doc Henry]

Theres really no reason to choose MD over DO or vice versa. The schooling is almost identical and actual practice is also almost identical (look at the DOs in allopathic residencies... they're doing just fine). Pick the school that you like the best, be it MD or DO. Theres no reason for harsh sentiment toward each other. It's true that at one point MDs were far superior than DOs, but times change and DOs have proven that they can do the job as well as any MD.

I see your point and agree that the difference in prestige between the two is fading rapidly. That being said; I would love some links to info about DO and any recommendations as far as schools go!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I guess I should have asked you to tell my why you chose DO.

It's a fallback option for many, fulfills geographic needs for a few, and even a smaller minority is very dedicated to OMM and the other minor differences between allopathic medicine and osteopathy.

 

[supersash]

this is just a silly thread. what do you think you're going to get from a pre-do board when you say "convince me please!"

we're not here to "convince" you to do anything. ask a worthwhile question, and you'll get a worthwhile answer.

check the FAQ's if you have more specific questions about anything.

 

[sunnyjohn]

I think you should stick with MD schools.

Nothing to see here people.... Move along....


DO=DOctor!

 

[Protease]

<Commence Encourgement Speech>

You like DOs, you hate MDs.
I think your patient has STDs.
Once more I say going DO
has to be the only way.
For if you wonder of the path
Granpa will introduce you to Death.

You love OMT, anything less
will put you in misery.
So go little one,
apply to AACOMAS
before someone gets one of your diplomas.

Go work in a clinic,
a hospital, or with a doctor,
before you know it,
You'll be rich like Scott Proctor.

Remember, remember, apply early,
sometime in September.
All will be fine because
you have already,
made up your mind.
DOs are superior,
MDs are inferior,
Enjoy the rest of your life.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Thank you! I like your advice about applying to both and appreciate that you aren't questioning my desire to be a doctor considering I never once said I might not want to be a doctor.

No problem--applying to both schools is standard advice from most folks here on SDN.

If you're thinking DOs have a special connection to goodness, don't kid yourself. I really think that good physicians are people who study hard, have sympathy/empathy, and listen to their patients. You can do this with either degree.

One of my reasons for choosing DO is because of my interest in primary care. I think primary care is a great model and I hope that our healthcare system doesn't abandon this. If you're interested in primary care, you should definitely consider DO--8 of the top 10 schools nationwide that produce the most graduates entering primary care are DO schools.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_primarycare_brief.php

 

[Doc Henry]

<Commence Encourgement Speech>

You like DOs, you hate MDs.
I think your patient has STDs.
Once more I say going DO
has to be the only way.
For if you wonder of the path
Granpa will introduce you to Death.

You love OMT, anything less
will put you in misery.
So go little one,
apply to AACOMAS
before someone gets one of your diplomas.

Go work in a clinic,
a hospital, or with a doctor,
before you know it,
You'll be rich like Scott Proctor.

Remember, remember, apply early,
sometime in September.
All will be fine because
you have already,
made up your mind.
DOs are superior,
MDs are inferior,
Enjoy the rest of you life.

???????? Did you seriously just write that?????????????

 

[Protease]

???????? Did you seriously just write that?????????????

yes i did why?

 

[Doc Henry]

yes i did why?

intense...thats all, just a little intense.

 

[CTrainSJU]

If you do the research and have the gut feeling that the DO route is what you want to take then by all means do that. The motivation has to come from within yourself though. If at the end of the day you want to be a DO for your own reason then I'm sure all posters on this thread and other DO threads would say welcome to the family. Just wanted to put a somewhat positive and encouraging post here.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Seriously,

Choose what makes you happy. Most students who do go DO as a "back up " find that their is no real difference in practice and are too busy slogging it out in residency to notice the difference.

Yep, they may be a tad bummed during that summer before matriculation because that they can't brag as much as their pre-med pals (if they are the bragging type). Yep, they may have to explain to Grandma Ethel, Aunt Mary and Uncle Chuck what a Do is 100 times. Yep, your arrogant cousin may get into Harvard Med and rub you nose in it. Yep, you might be shut out of some residency programs by misguided PDs.

If it REALLY matters, if those two letters (MD) REALLY matter to you more than the chance to practice medicine, go to an allopathic school. Life is too short to spend your whole career worrying over letters of the alphabet

 

[Doc Henry]

Seriously,

Choose what makes you happy. Most students who do go DO as a "back up " find that their is no real difference in practice and are too busy slogging it out in residency to notice the difference.

Yep, they may be a tad bummed during that summer before matriculation because that they can't brag as much as their pre-med pals (if they are the bragging type). Yep, they may have to explain to Grandma Ethel, Aunt Mary and Uncle Chuck what a Do is 100 times. Yep, your arrogant cousin may get into Harvard Med and rub you nose in it. Yep, you might be shut out of some residency programs by misguided PDs.

If it REALLY matters, if those two letters (MD) REALLY matter to you more than the chance to practice medicine, go to an allopathic school. Life is too short to spend your whole career worrying over letters of the alphabet

HaHa....you're right, no two letters should matter that much! I really don't want to be one more person who thinks they should. I can only hope that by the time my kids are looking into med school (if they choose to), they wont even think twice about the two letters.

 

[Onstarr]

<Commence Encourgement Speech>

You like DOs, you hate MDs.
I think your patient has STDs.
Once more I say going DO
has to be the only way.
For if you wonder of the path
Granpa will introduce you to Death.

You love OMT, anything less
will put you in misery.
So go little one,
apply to AACOMAS
before someone gets one of your diplomas.

Go work in a clinic,
a hospital, or with a doctor,
before you know it,
You'll be rich like Scott Proctor.

Remember, remember, apply early,
sometime in September.
All will be fine because
you have already,
made up your mind.
DOs are superior,
MDs are inferior,
Enjoy the rest of your life.

*clap* hilarious.

 

[shobbs]

I understand where you're coming from and I'm sure you didn't mean "convince me" in a bad way. What everyone is saying is true though. Its up to you! Probly a good idea to apply to both and make your decision after interviews....GOOD LUCK

 

[BiPap]

evening
I am new to this site but - I am a DO, as well as a 2nd yr Pulm/CC fellow at a large University Hospital; I was Chief at a well respected Allopathic IM Residency -
when I interview medical students at my institution, or Internal Medicine Resident candidates, or Pulm/CC fellow candidates, I tell them the same darn thing...the information in Harrisons and Sabistons... and all the other texts that we use, the information in them is what is important, your patients are only concerned with how you care for them, not your degree
and you will only learn how to care for them by working your butt off in WHATEVER school takes you in - but dont go to an Osteopathic institution for an interview without knowing some of the history behind AT Still and so on or they'll show you the door quicly

 

[Kuba]

It's a fallback option for many, fulfills geographic needs for a few, and even a smaller minority is very dedicated to OMM and the other minor differences between allopathic medicine and osteopathy.

haha, I love your candid posts.

 

[madscientist50]

I would only take issue with your first post of its "easier", I dont think its "easy" to get into any medical school. MD or DO you have about a 1 in 5 chance of getting into medical school if you look at class sizes versus total applicants of all MD and DO (US only) schools. I chose a DO app because of their higher rate of acceptance of non-traditional students as well as the philosophy of understanding the whole body. I also like the OMT training as well, I was wary at first but shadowed and recieved a treatment and I was very intrigued. As well as the fact that most MD schools are state schools and that means that if you are out of state, you are all but hosed unless you have some really really tough stats, as for say the Univ of Iowa, if you are an out of state app you will not get a 2ndary app if you have below a 3.6 GPA and a 30 MCAT, and will usually not get one if you are under a 3.8 GPA, and yet the avg GPA of the 2005 class was about 3.65. The DO Schools I have looked into do differentiate between in and out of state for apps only tuition, couple that with a great education and training as well as a heavy emphasis on primary care, in which I am interested and I chose DO schools for my apps.

 

[medicalkiss]

I am not going to convince you of anything... especially if it means that you would take the spot in a program from someone who is actually dedicated to being a DO from the start. You should be able to see the benifits of the program without having to be told what they are. It isnt something someone can just explain to you.

 

[NRAI2001]

How about the truth? 95% of the people at DO school didnt get into 1) any md school 2) didnt get into their local md school and didnt want to move.....

But since DOs can do everything an similarly trained MD can do they choose DO instead of spending a few years doing postbacc, retaking mcat...etc (or some people may have done this also).

The truth is DO schools are easier to get into and the school they attend was the best school they got into, realizing that a physician is a phyisician.

 

[natsayshi]

Allopathic equal PC’S
Osteopathic equals Apple

I chose the elite, Apple

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Allopathic equal PC’S
Osteopathic equals Apple

I chose the elite, Apple

such an idiotic remark ... keep telling yourself that. DO is not elite to MD, nor is MD in most cases elite to DO ...

 

[hb2998]

Allopathic equal PC’S
Osteopathic equals Apple

I chose the elite, Apple

Thank god Apple's millions of dollar Ads had an impact on someone! I'm not a die hard fan of microsoft, but I know that Apple makes tons of false claims, their software/hardware is definitely subpar, but they still sell because there are tons of consumers who still "believe" that apple is superior. I don't know how you could believe that a company who is too cheap to spend money building their own framework, and doesn't financially support the people who built it (thousands of unix/linux developers) is superior to microsoft. I've seen nothing but lies out of Apple lately, and I'm hoping people would see the light sooner or later. Please lets not turn this Thread into an Apple vs. Microsoft conversation (please post in off-topic if you'd like).

But anyway, (DO-highly guarded philosophy)=MD. I honestly don't believe one is superior to the other. .

 

[jp104]

Allopathic equal PC’S
Osteopathic equals Apple

I chose the elite, Apple

Since we're making random claims...

DO = Hot redhead
MD = Hot blonde
Carrib = Hot Brunette



PS: Note that the above was not meant to be offensive to any hair-icity and may not be rebroadcast without the express writren consent of Major League baseball

 

[docem]

I see your point and agree that the difference in prestige between the two is fading rapidly. That being said; I would love some links to info about DO and any recommendations as far as schools go!

Read: The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America by Norman Gevitz

I have always been interested in becoming a DO, and this was very informative. Ultimately it is about which school fits best with your learning style.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Since we're making random claims...

DO = Hot redhead
MD = Hot blonde
Carrib = Hot Brunette



PS: Note that the above was not meant to be offensive to any hair-icity and may not be rebroadcast without the express writren consent of Major League baseball

Benign . . . . . . . . . . . What you be, after you be eight
CAT Scan. . . . . . . . . . . Searching for Kitty
Congenital . . . . . . . . . . . Friendly
Labour Pain . . . . . . . . . Getting hurt at work
Outpatient . . . . . . . . . A person who has fainted
Rectum . . . . . . . . . . . Damn near killed him!

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Since we're making random claims...

DO = Hot redhead
MD = Hot blonde
Carrib = Hot Brunette



PS: Note that the above was not meant to be offensive to any hair-icity and may not be rebroadcast without the express writren consent of Major League baseball

hey now, hot brunettes are not 3rd class

 

[CatsandCradles]

Let me use this analogy:

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

Now they are both made by the same company, but I think it's fair to say that a lot of people would pick a Lexus over a Toyota.

Osteopathic programs are going to get you to where you want, but it would sure be nice to have a little bit more prestige too.

I guess the upside of Osteopathic programs is that you can also do OMM.
And billing for that OMM might just be a good thing in these days of falling medicare and medicaid reinbursments and turf wars with encroaching midlevels.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Let me use this analogy:

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

Now they are both made by the same company, but I think it's fair to say that a lot of people would pick a Lexus over a Toyota.

Osteopathic programs are going to get you to where you want, but it would sure be nice to have a little bit more prestige too.

I guess the upside of Osteopathic programs is that you can also do OMM.
And billing for that OMM might just be a good thing in these days of falling medicare and medicaid reinbursments and turf wars with encroaching midlevels.

You know, comparing degrees to cars or computers, etc. is pretty stupid.
I think everyone knows what the deal is for the most part, why post these statements that will likely piss ppl off.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Let me use this analogy:

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

Now they are both made by the same company, but I think it's fair to say that a lot of people would pick a Lexus over a Toyota.

But the truth is, ultimately, they both land up on the scrap heap some day. So which one was really "better"?

 

[Vix206]

Let me use this analogy:

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

Now they are both made by the same company, but I think it's fair to say that a lot of people would pick a Lexus over a Toyota.

Osteopathic programs are going to get you to where you want, but it would sure be nice to have a little bit more prestige too.

I guess the upside of Osteopathic programs is that you can also do OMM.
And billing for that OMM might just be a good thing in these days of falling medicare and medicaid reinbursments and turf wars with encroaching midlevels.

a sweeping analogy that is not true. would you say that DOs who place in residencies at Harvard/JHU, etc. (which i know for a fact have been accomplished) are "riding around in a corolla?" there are going to be superior doctors and horribly inadequate doctors no matter which degree they have.

can someone close this thread? it's getting on my nerves

 

[Kuba]

a sweeping analogy that is not true. would you say that DOs who place in residencies at Harvard/JHU, etc. (which i know for a fact have been accomplished) are "riding around in a corolla?" there are going to be superior doctors and horribly inadequate doctors no matter which degree they have.

can someone close this thread? it's getting on my nerves

The analogy focuses on prestige though, and for the most part probably holds true. It's like the Toyota Avalon and one of the Lexus models. Same car, same factory, different brand.

 

[Vix206]

The analogy focuses on prestige though, and for the most part probably holds true. It's like the Toyota Avalon and one of the Lexus models. Same car, same factory, different brand.

i see what your saying with your car clarification. but prestige doesn't come with your degree - it comes with the reputation you make for yourself as a physician. i'd say that a DO matching at Harvard will be more likely to have a prestigious career than an MD who matches at JoeSmoe Medical Center.

and yes, there aren't many DOs in the New Yorker's Top Doctors of the Year, but that's not why i'm going into the field.

 

[bluejuice007]

I appreciate the spirit and intention of the original question. And I for one was not offended and do not feel compelled to chastise the manner in which it was asked. The truth is there are real differences between DO and MD. However, the line is very fuzzy and depends largely upon where and what you end up doing for practice. Clearly from this thread it is obvious that everyone has an opinion, and opinions vary widely from person to person. This only complicates the decision for a prospective student.

The AOA and AMA are different organizations with some differences in philosophy. The AMA is much larger, older, with more members, more money and hence carries greater political weight and public recognition. This is both good and bad. The public is increasingly disappointed with our current method of health care delivery and by proxy with MDs. From a marketing stand point this is potentially good for DOs. Take a look in any insurance booklet that lists physicians and you will find few DOs relative to MDs. The last state I lived in had maybe 6 DOs, in a book of a several hundred physicians. I wanted a DO primary care physician and called every one in the book. None were accepting patients, all were busy, successful and in high demand. I was accepted by the first MD practice I called. Smaller is sometimes better, and I think the Mac vs. PC analogy works here (but not in the context used above). One is not better per se than the other, but rather each has its own strengths and weaknesses. It's like saying being Republican is better than Democrat. Pride often gets caught up in the debate and historical differences, and so if you are the one you say it is better than the other. While the statistics would lead you to believe that DO is easier on the front end - don't be fooled. Most DO schools value passion and experience as highly as the two numbers everyone stresses over. The history of the osteopathic profession is a compelling story and worth knowing. It may be as relevant today as when it was formed in 1874. The AMA for greater than a century has tried to crush DOs and have consistently failed. Their approach now seems to be to try and absorb and bring about an amalgamation of the two schools of medical practice. It should be noted that the AOA and AMA and all their affiliates cooperate in many areas on behalf of the nation's health care. As thoughtful Americans we typically reject monopolistic practices in business, politics, religion, medicine and other areas. While this practice invariably leads to tension I believe we are the better and stronger for it.

Best wishes!
~Jaz

References:
1. The Difference a D.O. Makes, by Bob E. Jones
2. Dubious Aspects of Osteopathy, Stephen Barrett, M.D.