Could it be happening soon???

Started by Doctor M
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Doctor M said:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/23/news/companies/cvs_caremark_pharmacy.fortune/

:biglove:
Click to expand...


I understand why you would be thrilled about this and congratulations on your success w/ your independent, but what I fail to understand is why no one on here seems to complain about Express Scripts, for example, blocking consumers from using CVS/Walgreens/etc. and forcing them to mail order. Okay, you can give the BS answer of "CVS and Caremark are two different companies" yada yada... What does this matter in the grand scheme of things? Express Scripts is a PBM and they are forcing patients to use their DISPENSING method of mail order (which is FAR worse for the patient vs. CVS/Caremark and the choice btw mail order and in-store). So just because Express Scripts doesn't have a store on every corner, this isn't a problem? Please, spare me the legal rants, I do understand the legal ramifications of misuse of a vertical merger like this, but the hypocrisy of the lack of condemnation of mail order on here pisses me off.
 
StevePerry said:
I understand why you would be thrilled about this and congratulations on your success w/ your independent, but what I fail to understand is why no one on here seems to complain about Express Scripts, for example, blocking consumers from using CVS/Walgreens/etc. and forcing them to mail order. Okay, you can give the BS answer of "CVS and Caremark are two different companies" yada yada... What does this matter in the grand scheme of things? Express Scripts is a PBM and they are forcing patients to use their DISPENSING method of mail order (which is FAR worse for the patient vs. CVS/Caremark and the choice btw mail order and in-store). So just because Express Scripts doesn't have a store on every corner, this isn't a problem? Please, spare me the legal rants, I do understand the legal ramifications of misuse of a vertical merger like this, but the hypocrisy of the lack of condemnation of mail order on here pisses me off.
Click to expand...

nope, cause there is a CVS on every corner in this country...If Express scripts had an Express Scripts Pharmacy on every corner as a retail outlet and forced everyone to go to the pharmacy they owned, then yes, I would be pissed...but you are comparing apples and oranges...CVS/caremark is using the information they can get from each other to force pts back to their CVS pharmacies...Many of my patients have gotten letters from Caremark telling them to go to CVS or else... No, not Mail order, got to a retail store....If express scripts sent pts letters to use their mail order facility, fine, but to use an "express scripts retail pharmacy" instead of any "retail" corner drug store...that is BS...That is my argument...
 
Doctor M said:
nope, cause there is a CVS on every corner in this country...If Express scripts had an Express Scripts Pharmacy on every corner as a retail outlet and forced everyone to go to the pharmacy they owned, then yes, I would be pissed...but you are comparing apples and oranges...CVS/caremark is using the information they can get from each other to force pts back to their CVS pharmacies...Many of my patients have gotten letters from Caremark telling them to go to CVS or else... No, not Mail order, got to a retail store....If express scripts sent pts letters to use their mail order facility, fine, but to use an "express scripts retail pharmacy" instead of any "retail" corner drug store...that is BS...That is my argument...
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So giving two choices (mail order OR in-store) instead of one (mail order only) is worse? You are still restricting choice even more so. So you are saying if these patients called Caremark and asked for mail-order this would be a problem? Really? CVS/Caremark most likely assumes that people HATE mail order so they direct them to CVS. Restricting dispensing choice is restricting dispense choice. Agree to disagree I guess.
 
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StevePerry said:
I understand why you would be thrilled about this and congratulations on your success w/ your independent, but what I fail to understand is why no one on here seems to complain about Express Scripts, for example, blocking consumers from using CVS/Walgreens/etc. and forcing them to mail order. Okay, you can give the BS answer of "CVS and Caremark are two different companies" yada yada... What does this matter in the grand scheme of things? Express Scripts is a PBM and they are forcing patients to use their DISPENSING method of mail order (which is FAR worse for the patient vs. CVS/Caremark and the choice btw mail order and in-store). So just because Express Scripts doesn't have a store on every corner, this isn't a problem? Please, spare me the legal rants, I do understand the legal ramifications of misuse of a vertical merger like this, but the hypocrisy of the lack of condemnation of mail order on here pisses me off.
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Dude, mail order has been around for a 100 years. I read an old article I think in drug topics that was reprinted from 1901 or there abouts talking about how mail order was going to be the death of pharmacy. Mail order is its own worst enemy. No customer service, slow delivery times and no desire to handle or fix any problems turns most people off. Sure there are thoses that are forced into mail order. Most people choose not to use mail order because it sucks. Honestly if you had to choose between CVS, Walgreens or mail order which would you choose? All three options stink. You get long wait times and crappy customer service with all three but at least with mail order you get your prescriptions cheaper.

The CVS/Caremark thing is in our face everyday. I do agree most pharmacists have a poor understanding of how negativly PBMs affect us. The single greatest threat to pharmacy today are PBMs. They control the market and are reaping billions of dollars in profit every year.
 
StevePerry said:
So giving two choices (mail order OR in-store) instead of one (mail order only) is worse? You are still restricting choice even more so. So you are saying if these patients called Caremark and asked for mail-order this would be a problem? Really? CVS/Caremark most likely assumes that people HATE mail order so they direct them to CVS. Restricting dispensing choice is restricting dispense choice. Agree to disagree I guess.
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I never said Express scripts was good...I never had the chance to fill express scripts rx's if the only choice the pt had was mail order...However, a pt that comes to me and then MUST go back 1/2 mile up the street 3 months later because caremark sent them a letter is BS. I cannot compete with mail order, no independent can...But I can compete with CVS and Walgreens...In fact I beat them in every category possible: competent staff, prices, and even my hours are competitive...And since CVS/Caremark assumes people hate mail order they direct them to CVS? Ok, so only CVS? Why not just let them choose? They dont cause they reap the benefits either way...They could give 2 sh-ts about the patient, they care about the money they get from the plan sponsor...that is all they care about...
 
You want to be pissed off about something be pissed about this:

Thomas M. Ryan, Chairman of the Board President and Chief Executive Officer CVS CAREMARK CORP In 2008, Thomas M. Ryan raked in $24,102,648 in total compensation.

David B. Snow Jr. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer MEDCO HEALTH SOLUTIONS INCIn 2008, David B. Snow Jr. raked in $13,134,243 in total compensation.

George Paz President Chief Executive Officer Chairman EXPRESS SCRIPTS INC
In 2008, George Paz raked in $12,774,367 in total compensation.

Ronald A. Williams Chairman and Chief Executive Officer AETNA INC
In 2008, Ronald A. Williams raked in $24,300,112 in total compensation.

Michael B. McCallister President & Chief Executive Officer HUMANA INC In 2009, Michael B. McCallister raked in $6,509,452 in total compensation.

This does not include stock options and other compensation. Check this out:

UnitedHealth CEO
Stephen J. Hemsley
2007 Compensation
$13.2 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042
Former Managing Partner and CFO of Arthur Andersen (BusinessWeek)
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$744,232,068
2009 Options Exercise
$127,001,281Value of Wayzata, Minnesota Home (Hennepin County Assessor)
$6,640,000

CIGNA CEO
Edward Hanway
Five-Year Compensation, as of April 30, 2008 (Forbes)
$120.51 millionTotal Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$28,881,000
Value of New Jersey Beach Home (Cape May County Assessor)
$13,607,400
Articles:
The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after CIGNA reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday.

Humana CEO
Michael McCallister
2007 Compensation
$10.3 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$1,017,308
Five-Year Compensation Total (Forbes)
$15.1 million
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$60,865,194
2006 Options Exercise (SECForm4)
$22,294,710
Value of Park City, Utah Home (County Assessor)
$6,978,380
 
MountainPharmD said:
You want to be pissed off about something be pissed about this:

Thomas M. Ryan, Chairman of the Board President and Chief Executive Officer CVS CAREMARK CORP In 2008, Thomas M. Ryan raked in $24,102,648 in total compensation.

David B. Snow Jr. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer MEDCO HEALTH SOLUTIONS INCIn 2008, David B. Snow Jr. raked in $13,134,243 in total compensation.

George Paz President Chief Executive Officer Chairman EXPRESS SCRIPTS INC
In 2008, George Paz raked in $12,774,367 in total compensation.

Ronald A. Williams Chairman and Chief Executive Officer AETNA INC
In 2008, Ronald A. Williams raked in $24,300,112 in total compensation.

Michael B. McCallister President & Chief Executive Officer HUMANA INC In 2009, Michael B. McCallister raked in $6,509,452 in total compensation.

This does not include stock options and other compensation. Check this out:

UnitedHealth CEO
Stephen J. Hemsley
2007 Compensation
$13.2 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042
Former Managing Partner and CFO of Arthur Andersen (BusinessWeek)
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$744,232,068
2009 Options Exercise
$127,001,281Value of Wayzata, Minnesota Home (Hennepin County Assessor)
$6,640,000

CIGNA CEO
Edward Hanway
Five-Year Compensation, as of April 30, 2008 (Forbes)
$120.51 millionTotal Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$28,881,000
Value of New Jersey Beach Home (Cape May County Assessor)
$13,607,400
Articles:
The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after CIGNA reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday.

Humana CEO
Michael McCallister
2007 Compensation
$10.3 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$1,017,308
Five-Year Compensation Total (Forbes)
$15.1 million
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$60,865,194
2006 Options Exercise (SECForm4)
$22,294,710
Value of Park City, Utah Home (County Assessor)
$6,978,380
Click to expand...

Thats just disgusting...
 
MountainPharmD said:
Damn Sparda you and these vidoes err I mean animated gifs. What did you do find a website with all these on there?
Click to expand...

Yeah, another forum called Luelinks. The new trend is to respond to posts with gifs and pictures instead of emoticons, lol. Most of the discussion on those forums is about "Life, Universe, and Everything in between", just random daily stuff, and also NWS/NLS stuff.

NWS = Not Work Safe
NLS = Not Life Safe
 
MountainPharmD said:
Damn Sparda you and these vidoes err I mean animated gifs. What did you do find a website with all these on there?
Click to expand...

Yeah, another forum called Luelinks. The new trend is to respond to posts with gifs and pictures instead of emoticons, lol. Most of the discussion on those forums is about "Life, Universe, and Everything in between", just random daily stuff, and also NWS/NLS stuff.

For example, one guy posted up a picture of him and his girlfriend where he asks her to marry him. About 6 replies later, someone commented that they've seen his girlfriend before, and as it turns out, his girlfriend was/is a porn star.

NWS = Not Work Safe
NLS = Not Life Safe
 
CEO's are generally some of the best in their industries, right? In 2010, Tiger Woods made more than all these evil CEO's put together. I think compensation all around is pretty skewed, but CEO's should be the "best of the best" in their respective industries, so why shouldn't they make a fraction of what some idiot who is 6'10" and can put a ball in the hoop makes?

10) Dale Earnhardt
He is one of the most popular NASCAR drivers ever to appear in the sport. Despite his relatively poor performance compared to his competitors, Earnhardt has earned twice as much as his closest rivals. Thanks to impressive sponsorship and merchandising deals, Dale Earnhardt Jr. is set to earn $34 million this year.
9) Valentino Rossi
The leading competitor in the thrilling sport called motorcycle racing. With a solid record of wins behind him, there is no surprise Yamaha alone pays him $16 million a year just to ride for them. With all of his endorsement deals included, he earns in excess of $35 million this year.
8) Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao is one of the worlds most well known boxers, with his lethal speed and power helped him win against boxing greats such as Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton. He is tied at $40 million.
7) Phil Mickelson
One of two pro-golfers to appear on this list. With his regular sponsorship deals and regularly won tournaments, he has definitely made himself a household name. He has won countless tournaments, not to mention The Masters twice. He is tied at $40 million.
6) LeBron James
One of the highest paid basketball players in the NBA, with teams vying for him in the upcoming season. While LeBron James may be able to get the highest possible wage under NBA rules, there is a possibility he will go further afield for higher wages. He is also tied at $40 million.
5) David Beckham
The famous footballer from England is set to make $42 million with prestigious deals for companies such as Giorgio Armani and Adidas. Beckham is on contract to Los Angeles Galaxy, but has temporarily been loaned out to AC Milan.
4) Kimi Raikkonen
The highest paid Formula 1 driver in the world has not had the best of luck in recent years. Despite this, he still has lucrative endorsements and a nice wad of cash from Ferrari every year. He is tied at $45 million.
3) Michael Jordan
He might have retired, but his name is still going strong, as his Jordan brand sales are worth a cool $1 billion. With most of the thanks to Nike, Jordan is one of the highest paid athletes in the world. He is tied at $45 million.
2) Kobe Bryant
One of the greatest players in the NBA today. Known as the ‘Black Mamba’ Bryant earns $21 million a year, which is more than doubled by endorsement deals. He is tied at $45 million.
1) Tiger Woods
He might have had some shadows cast on his career in the last few months, but even with a string of affairs, Tiger Woods is still on route to earn $110 million this year. Despite a recurring knee injury, Tiger Woods is set to be the first athlete to earn $1 billion during his career and that is why he tops our list of the highest paid athletes.
 
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CK8652 said:
CEO's are generally some of the best in their industries, right? In 2010, Tiger Woods made more than all these evil CEO's put together. I think compensation all around is pretty skewed, but CEO's should be the "best of the best" in their respective industries, so why shouldn't they make a fraction of what some idiot who is 6'10" and can put a ball in the hoop makes?

10) Dale Earnhardt
He is one of the most popular NASCAR drivers ever to appear in the sport. Despite his relatively poor performance compared to his competitors, Earnhardt has earned twice as much as his closest rivals. Thanks to impressive sponsorship and merchandising deals, Dale Earnhardt Jr. is set to earn $34 million this year.
9) Valentino Rossi
The leading competitor in the thrilling sport called motorcycle racing. With a solid record of wins behind him, there is no surprise Yamaha alone pays him $16 million a year just to ride for them. With all of his endorsement deals included, he earns in excess of $35 million this year.
8) Manny Pacquiao
Pacquiao is one of the worlds most well known boxers, with his lethal speed and power helped him win against boxing greats such as Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton. He is tied at $40 million.
7) Phil Mickelson
One of two pro-golfers to appear on this list. With his regular sponsorship deals and regularly won tournaments, he has definitely made himself a household name. He has won countless tournaments, not to mention The Masters twice. He is tied at $40 million.
6) LeBron James
One of the highest paid basketball players in the NBA, with teams vying for him in the upcoming season. While LeBron James may be able to get the highest possible wage under NBA rules, there is a possibility he will go further afield for higher wages. He is also tied at $40 million.
5) David Beckham
The famous footballer from England is set to make $42 million with prestigious deals for companies such as Giorgio Armani and Adidas. Beckham is on contract to Los Angeles Galaxy, but has temporarily been loaned out to AC Milan.
4) Kimi Raikkonen
The highest paid Formula 1 driver in the world has not had the best of luck in recent years. Despite this, he still has lucrative endorsements and a nice wad of cash from Ferrari every year. He is tied at $45 million.
3) Michael Jordan
He might have retired, but his name is still going strong, as his Jordan brand sales are worth a cool $1 billion. With most of the thanks to Nike, Jordan is one of the highest paid athletes in the world. He is tied at $45 million.
2) Kobe Bryant
One of the greatest players in the NBA today. Known as the ‘Black Mamba’ Bryant earns $21 million a year, which is more than doubled by endorsement deals. He is tied at $45 million.
1) Tiger Woods
He might have had some shadows cast on his career in the last few months, but even with a string of affairs, Tiger Woods is still on route to earn $110 million this year. Despite a recurring knee injury, Tiger Woods is set to be the first athlete to earn $1 billion during his career and that is why he tops our list of the highest paid athletes.
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And how many people are going to lose their lives, homes, or otherwise be worse off because these athletes made the money they do? Pretty close to "0" I would say. The same cannot be said of insurance companies, whose business practices negatively impact the quality of life of countless people every day.
 
MountainPharmD said:
You want to be pissed off about something be pissed about this:

Thomas M. Ryan, Chairman of the Board President and Chief Executive Officer CVS CAREMARK CORP In 2008, Thomas M. Ryan raked in $24,102,648 in total compensation.

David B. Snow Jr. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer MEDCO HEALTH SOLUTIONS INCIn 2008, David B. Snow Jr. raked in $13,134,243 in total compensation.

George Paz President Chief Executive Officer Chairman EXPRESS SCRIPTS INC
In 2008, George Paz raked in $12,774,367 in total compensation.

Ronald A. Williams Chairman and Chief Executive Officer AETNA INC
In 2008, Ronald A. Williams raked in $24,300,112 in total compensation.

Michael B. McCallister President & Chief Executive Officer HUMANA INC In 2009, Michael B. McCallister raked in $6,509,452 in total compensation.

This does not include stock options and other compensation. Check this out:

UnitedHealth CEO
Stephen J. Hemsley
2007 Compensation
$13.2 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042
Former Managing Partner and CFO of Arthur Andersen (BusinessWeek)
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$744,232,068
2009 Options Exercise
$127,001,281Value of Wayzata, Minnesota Home (Hennepin County Assessor)
$6,640,000

CIGNA CEO
Edward Hanway
Five-Year Compensation, as of April 30, 2008 (Forbes)
$120.51 millionTotal Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$28,881,000
Value of New Jersey Beach Home (Cape May County Assessor)
$13,607,400
Articles:
The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after CIGNA reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday.

Humana CEO
Michael McCallister
2007 Compensation
$10.3 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$1,017,308
Five-Year Compensation Total (Forbes)
$15.1 million
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$60,865,194
2006 Options Exercise (SECForm4)
$22,294,710
Value of Park City, Utah Home (County Assessor)
$6,978,380
Click to expand...

If Obama had gone with the single-payer model, those jobs, and those salaries, would disappear.

Up here, the "Sunshine List," or list of public employees making more than $100,000 came out, and people are POed about the top healthcare salary, the CEO of Toronto's largest hospital, who made $830,000.

But millions of dollars for administrators? Why?
 
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Of course that would be if the numbers reported were accurate.

The 2009 Salary for Tom Ryan as 14 million on a base salary of 1.4 million. That means the value of the 2008 salary was inflated by options that are under water or he took a pa cut in 2009.

CEO salary, actors salaries, athletes salaries and pharmacists salaries are set by the market.
 
Old Timer said:
Of course that would be if the numbers reported were accurate.

The 2009 Salary for Tom Ryan as 14 million on a base salary of 1.4 million. That means the value of the 2008 salary was inflated by options that are under water or he took a pay cut in 2009.

CEO salary, actors salaries, athletes salaries and pharmacists salaries are set by the market.
Click to expand...

Oh, I get it - just seems that the cost of American health care is enormously inflated by the salaries of people who are not only the highest paid in the health care system, but also are completely unnecessary for provision of health care.

You don't need people getting paid ten mill a year to have an effective health care system.
 
Pharmavixen said:
Oh, I get it - just seems that the cost of American health care is enormously inflated by the salaries of people who are not only the highest paid in the health care system, but also are completely unnecessary for provision of health care.

You don't need people getting paid ten mill a year to have an effective health care system.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying I disagree. I'm just saying the market sets the price of everything....
 
Old Timer said:
I'm not saying I disagree. I'm just saying the market sets the price of everything....
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very true, an entertainer (such as basketball players) are paid what they are paid cause its what we are willing to pay for a ticket...Its all what the market brings...How much is someone willing to pay for your services...
 
Doctor M said:
very true, an entertainer (such as basketball players) are paid what they are paid cause its what we are willing to pay for a ticket...Its all what the market brings...How much is someone willing to pay for your services...
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What "services" are these CEOs providing that warrant these staggeringly huge salaries?

Front line health care workers save lives, and get paid a fraction of the compensation of these CEOs.
 
Pharmavixen said:
What "services" are these CEOs providing that warrant these staggeringly huge salaries?

Front line health care workers save lives, and get paid a fraction of the compensation of these CEOs.
Click to expand...

Thats yet to be determined...All im saying is that I agree with oldtimer in that everyone is paid based on what the market is willing to pay...whatever services those CEO's are providing is what the "market" is willing to pay... I dont have the answer...
 
Doctor M said:
Thats yet to be determined...All im saying is that I agree with oldtimer in that everyone is paid based on what the market is willing to pay...whatever services those CEO's are providing is what the "market" is willing to pay... I dont have the answer...
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How can I complain about Tom Ryan. Since I joined CVS, the company has continued to grow, my salary has more than doubled, I was able to cash enough stock options to pay for a year of college for my oldest child. My 401K in the last year is worth more than the profit sharing I got as a independent. He be berry berry good to me.....
 
Pharmavixen said:
What "services" are these CEOs providing that warrant these staggeringly huge salaries?

Front line health care workers save lives, and get paid a fraction of the compensation of these CEOs.
Click to expand...


Whether or not their salaries are "warranted" is completely immaterial. It is what is determined by the market.

Does Lebron James "deserve" to be paid as much as an entire nation of third world doctors who are treating people? No. But people will pay to see him and buy his merchandise. It doesn't make it right, but understand that your feud is with capitalism. Frankly, not everyone can do what CEOs do- there is a reason they were able to mow through the competition and get to where they are. Health care workers are easier to replace. Similarly, a lot of people can do what third world doctors do but not everyone can do what Lebron does.
 
ffpickle said:
Whether or not their salaries are "warranted" is completely immaterial. It is what is determined by the market.

Does Lebron James "deserve" to be paid as much as an entire nation of third world doctors who are treating people? No. But people will pay to see him and buy his merchandise. It doesn't make it right, but understand that your feud is with capitalism. Frankly, not everyone can do what CEOs do- there is a reason they were able to mow through the competition and get to where they are. Health care workers are easier to replace. Similarly, a lot of people can do what third world doctors do but not everyone can do what Lebron does.
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What I'm just saying is, it's possible to provide health care services without having people in the system who collect multimillion dollar salaries. I disagree with the premise that these people collect big salaries because they deserve it, when in fact, they aren't needed at all - most countries in the world provide health care without these positions existing at all.
 
Pharmavixen said:
What I'm just saying is, it's possible to provide health care services without having people in the system who collect multimillion dollar salaries. I disagree with the premise that these people collect big salaries because they deserve it, when in fact, they aren't needed at all - most countries in the world provide health care without these positions existing at all.
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I agree with you. I believe the relevant term is "crony capitalism." These CEOs make money because the world is small at that level, and they sit on each other's boards. In order for CEO 1 to make a ton of money, he needs to let CEO 2 make a ton of money. Total shell game.

A long-time friend of mine has a background in marketing and married an IT consultant who made his money from investments during the tech boom. She and he now both "consult." Basically, there is a tight circle of established investors and consultants in their particular field. They invest in their friends' companies and sit on their boards, then sell the companies or the product line, and vice-versa. It is a constant stream of "new" companies, "new" products and "new" boards -- but all the same recycled people serving on each others' boards and trotting out similar ideas to sell. Hey, it works for them, it's not illegal, and their net worth is unspeakably high, but it's basically a very insular group of people making money from scratching each others' backs. Not much innovation, just a lot of money changing hands.

I don't think it's going out on too much of a limb to deduce that there are similar goiings-on throughout other major industries like health care.
 
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jrf794 said:
And how many people are going to lose their lives, homes, or otherwise be worse off because these athletes made the money they do? Pretty close to "0" I would say. The same cannot be said of insurance companies, whose business practices negatively impact the quality of life of countless people every day.
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Which is exactly why it's absurd that the CEO's don't make more than athletes. CEO's of these companies actually do something, rather than just put a ball in a hoop or whatever. They're in charge of hundreds of thousands of people, a good amount of economy as a whole, and they make peanuts compared to Tiger Woods.

You ever wonder why some companies explode and some implode? I can tell you it's not the working of the store clerk at store #1419
 
Jetninjin said:
I agree with you. I believe the relevant term is "crony capitalism." These CEOs make money because the world is small at that level, and they sit on each other's boards. In order for CEO 1 to make a ton of money, he needs to let CEO 2 make a ton of money. Total shell game.

A long-time friend of mine has a background in marketing and married an IT consultant who made his money from investments during the tech boom. She and he now both "consult." Basically, there is a tight circle of established investors and consultants in their particular field. They invest in their friends' companies and sit on their boards, then sell the companies or the product line, and vice-versa. It is a constant stream of "new" companies, "new" products and "new" boards -- but all the same recycled people serving on each others' boards and trotting out similar ideas to sell. Hey, it works for them, it's not illegal, and their net worth is unspeakably high, but it's basically a very insular group of people making money from scratching each others' backs. Not much innovation, just a lot of money changing hands.

I don't think it's going out on too much of a limb to deduce that there are similar goiings-on throughout other major industries like health care.
Click to expand...

I've heard of this sort of thing. We had a little scandal last year where people who were supposed to be developing an electronic health system for the province basically squandered $ 1B of taxpayers' money for producing nothing. Where did it go? "Consultants" fees. One woman collected $ 400,000 for 3 months' work - and billing the government for every tiny little expense, like her Starbucks coffees.

(Come to think of it, maybe daily Starbucks' coffees are not so tiny an expense. You go in there for a coffee and a muffin, hand them a ten-dollar bill, and get coins back...)

Hearing about these consultants makes me feel like a sucker for going to school and learning a skill. All you have to do is meet the right people, go to lots of meetings, and re-invent the wheel over and over (how many Americans have electronic health in your states? Probably, what, ALL of you? So what in the hell were these people researching?)

Working for an hourly wage is for chumps like us...
 
Lol this thread kinda diverged towards a redistribution of wealth conversation 😀

CEO's and athletes probably (almost 99% probably) don't deserve as much money as they earn, but the market has no issue paying them that much. Movie starts and "famous" ppl kinda fall into this category too.

How does it make you feel knowing Paris Hilton makes like $8 million a year, while we, and pretty much every other section of this forum, work our butts off in school in then at our job. Not saying we deserve that much... Just that others could...
 
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Dezixn said:
Lol this thread kinda diverged towards a redistribution of wealth conversation 😀

CEO's and athletes probably (almost 99% probably) don't deserve as much money as they earn, but the market has no issue paying them that much. Movie starts and "famous" ppl kinda fall into this category too.

How does it make you feel knowing Paris Hilton makes like $8 million a year, while we, and pretty much every other section of this forum, work our butts off in school in then at our job. Not saying we deserve that much... Just that others could...
Click to expand...

People have been making that analogy, and the trouble with that comparison is that athletes, Paris Hilton and other sundry celeb-***** are not providing us with something we need, while healthcare is a necessity.

Basically, the healthcare system is set up to get a small number of people a huge payday. My point is, these people are not essential to the system, and this money can then go elsewhere. Like maybe into medical research, or pt care, f'r instance.
 
Today we had a patient who could not fill his wifes Lovaza at our store...It was mandatory Caremark Mail order...Not even the CVS down the street could fill it...Fine...I can live with that...comparing apples to apples...There is no difference between Lifecare and CVS located down the street...Equal competition...Mail order wins...fine...but mandate they go to CVS down the street...That is BS and it wont last...give it 2 years...thats how long it will take to break up this monopoly...I hope the next time a merger like this even comes to the table, we all just put a stop to it...

end rant
 
MountainPharmD said:
You want to be pissed off about something be pissed about this:

Thomas M. Ryan, Chairman of the Board President and Chief Executive Officer CVS CAREMARK CORP In 2008, Thomas M. Ryan raked in $24,102,648 in total compensation.

BTW, his total compensation was up 27%for 2009 :Up tp 30 million, yet the caremark side of the business is lagging....many contracts lost...hmmmm...
Click to expand...
 
Doctor M said:
MountainPharmD said:
You want to be pissed off about something be pissed about this:

Thomas M. Ryan, Chairman of the Board President and Chief Executive Officer CVS CAREMARK CORP In 2008, Thomas M. Ryan raked in $24,102,648 in total compensation.

BTW, his total compensation was up 27%for 2009 :Up tp 30 million, yet the caremark side of the business is lagging....many contracts lost...hmmmm...
Click to expand...

I would at least expect you would be accurate. Your claims about Tom Ryan's salary are as accurate as the Tea Party claims about Barack Obama.

Your figures are wrong as are your conclusions. As pointed out in this article, his salary decreased in 2009 from 2008 based on a reduction of his bonus because of the performance of the PBM side of the business.
NEW YORK — The head of drugstore chain and pharmacy benefits manager CVS Caremark Corp. received compensation valued at $14.4 million in 2009, down 17 percent the $17.4 million he received the previous year.
Click to expand...
CVS Caremark CEO Thomas Ryan earns $14.4 million in 2009, down 17 percent from year before
Click to expand...
 
Old Timer said:
Doctor M said:
I would at least expect you would be accurate. Your claims about Tom Ryan's salary are as accurate as the Tea Party claims about Barack Obama.

Your figures are wrong as are your conclusions. As pointed out in this article, his salary decreased in 2009 from 2008 based on a reduction of his bonus because of the performance of the PBM side of the business.

CVS Caremark CEO Thomas Ryan earns $14.4 million in 2009, down 17 percent from year before
Click to expand...

hmmm...i guess there is some discrepancy here:

http://www.pbn.com/detail/48697.html

His cash may have decreased, but his "overall package" increased...

BTW, do you have many friends?? Im just saying...your a bit egotistical whom i see as a passive aggresive "napoleon complex" type...I state a so called fact from the media which has nothing to do about you, yet you once again involve me in an insulting way...I swear you are related to Tom...BTW, did you ever own an independent? Or did you just work for one? I also ask cause there is a huge difference between working for one and owning one...Im just saying 🙂
Click to expand...
 
Look, You can call me names. You can act as silly as you want. If you can't attack my ideas or my facts, you attack me personally and call me names to belittle what I say. Very adult..

So let's get this straight,

If you read something in the media, it must be true and you don't have to critically read article, just pass it on. You don't have to check it, but if somebody else does, they must be **** or ****.

Second of all, I never owned an Independent. I worked for stepfather in his store for years and then I worked at a great place where I was the manager. I had an agreement with a right of first refusal to match any offers. Then when the guy went to retire, Eckerd walked in (during the 90's buying spree) and offered 250,000.00 more than our agreed upon price. Well I couldn't match and that was that. I have done everything you have done. I made budgets, made payroll, controlled inventory, They didn't have ALF's back then we did SNF's.

I fought the PBM;s from the beginning and was even involved in starting a grass roots effort to fight the PBM's because the associations wouldn't. So you can question my bonafides all you want. But there is nothing magical about what you are doing. I wish you well. I just wish you were accurate....
 
Old Timer said:
Look, You can call me names. You can act as silly as you want. If you can't attack my ideas or my facts, you attack me personally and call me names to belittle what I say. Very adult..

So let's get this straight,

If you read something in the media, it must be true and you don't have to critically read article, just pass it on. You don't have to check it, but if somebody else does, they must be **** or ****.

Second of all, I never owned an Independent. I worked for stepfather in his store for years and then I worked at a great place where I was the manager. I had an agreement with a right of first refusal to match any offers. Then when the guy went to retire, Eckerd walked in (during the 90's buying spree) and offered 250,000.00 more than our agreed upon price. Well I couldn't match and that was that. I have done everything you have done. I made budgets, made payroll, controlled inventory, They didn't have ALF's back then we did SNF's.

I fought the PBM;s from the beginning and was even involved in starting a grass roots effort to fight the PBM's because the associations wouldn't. So you can question my bonafides all you want. But there is nothing magical about what you are doing. I wish you well. I just wish you were accurate....
Click to expand...

First, let me just say that you started with the sarcastic comparison of the douche bag in the white house and the tea party...We obviously had two different articles that computed the TOTAL compensation differently...Instead of being sarcastic about, why dont you just post the article and discuss it, like this:

"The Associated Press formula is designed to isolate the value the company's board placed on the executive's total compensation package during the last fiscal year. It includes salary, bonus, performance-related bonuses, perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and awards granted during the year.

The calculations don't include changes in the present value of pension benefits, and they sometimes differ from the totals companies list in the summary compensation table of proxy statements filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which reflect the size of the accounting charge taken for the executive's compensation in the previous fiscal year."

One might conclude from the article above that the author has computed the total compensation based on past values of pension benefits...If one looks at the chart below, pehaps the authors of the two different articles computed the compensation at 2 different time periods?

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=CVS#symbol=CVS;range=6m

Therefore, perhaps we are both correct, just 2 different articles.

Seeing as though you are an "oldtimer' and have so much experience, I would have expected you to post a comment with some intelligent conversation...My post previous was far from that but it was retaliation...

BTW, what Im doing is magical and different from what you did with your stepfather...I actually own it. The difference between you and me is that im humble about it...The reason i asked you whether or not you owned it or not was because i dont think you want to understand the implications and consequences of this merger has on small businesses...I wasnt asking you to compare myself to you...The difference between you and me is that Im humble about what im doing...I dont really give a crap what you did 30 years ago...

In reading your posts on this forum, i would conclude that you do have "short mans syndrome" and you are passive aggressive...I know cause I use to be that way too...Im not short by any means, but i do know a passive aggressive attitude when I "read one"....I wish you well also and i do know this for a fact: You and I would not get along whatsoever, cause i already dont like you...Farewell Oldtimer :idea:
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Clearwater?

Dude, you live with all of the Scientologists! Have any celebrities ever come in and scolded you for stocking Prozac?
Click to expand...

Haha, yeah, i live in clearwater, but i work in St Pete...Ive actually never seen any celebrities around the shop...I dont think they would be caught around here...Not that its a bad location, but you know, middle income-low income area...Tom Cruise around here???lol

That would be funny if they held a rally outside of pharmacies for stocking prozac :laugh:
 
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Doctor M said:
First, let me just say that you started with the sarcastic comparison of the douche bag in the white house and the tea party...We obviously had two different articles that computed the TOTAL compensation differently...Instead of being sarcastic about, why dont you just post the article and discuss it, like this:

"The Associated Press formula is designed to isolate the value the company’s board placed on the executive’s total compensation package during the last fiscal year. It includes salary, bonus, performance-related bonuses, perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and awards granted during the year.

The calculations don’t include changes in the present value of pension benefits, and they sometimes differ from the totals companies list in the summary compensation table of proxy statements filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which reflect the size of the accounting charge taken for the executive’s compensation in the previous fiscal year."

One might conclude from the article above that the author has computed the total compensation based on past values of pension benefits...If one looks at the chart below, pehaps the authors of the two different articles computed the compensation at 2 different time periods?

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=CVS#symbol=CVS;range=6m

Therefore, perhaps we are both correct, just 2 different articles.

Seeing as though you are an "oldtimer' and have so much experience, I would have expected you to post a comment with some intelligent conversation...My post previous was far from that but it was retaliation...

BTW, what Im doing is magical and different from what you did with your stepfather...I actually own it. The difference between you and me is that im humble about it...The reason i asked you whether or not you owned it or not was because i dont think you want to understand the implications and consequences of this merger has on small businesses...I wasnt asking you to compare myself to you...The difference between you and me is that Im humble about what im doing...I dont really give a crap what you did 30 years ago...

In reading your posts on this forum, i would conclude that you do have "short mans syndrome" and you are passive aggressive...I know cause I use to be that way too...Im not short by any means, but i do know a passive aggressive attitude when I "read one"....I wish you well also and i do know this for a fact: You and I would not get along whatsoever, cause i already dont like you...Farewell Oldtimer :idea:
Click to expand...

First I said nothing about you. I made an analogy about two groups that don't like each other (Tea Party hates Obama Doctor M hates CVS) to make a point that the information you posted was not factual. You don't like CVS and that's fine, I could care less about that, but it is not right to post factually incorrect or misleading information in support of your dislike of said company.

Let me know when you count the increase in value of your 401K as part of your income. Do you say I made X from my salary and y from the profit of my company and z from the increase in my retirement and x+y+z is my income for the year.

You keep calling me names. You imply you know my height and therefore can explain my posts based on my lack of stature (that you have no knowledge of) and just so you know, you are as accurate about my height as you are about Tom Ryan's Salary.
 
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