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I suppose we should be glad for our private dental healthcare delivery system.
Check out what is happening in Britain.
Check out what is happening in Britain.
KY2007 said:Here in the good ole US of A we do things a little different. If you can't afford to get that tumor removed from your head, well you just go to the hospital and have it removed anyway. Then when the bill for $150,000 dollars comes in the mail, we just go ahead and throw it in the trash with all the other junk mail. j
ku06 said:46 million is a gross overestimate from what I've heard. Some undershoot 30 mil others overshoot it, but when these "studies" are said and done it comes out somewhere around 30 mil. Many of these people choose not to have healthcare. Where I work, I am given health insurance. Many of the other 23 year olds and up do not take the health insurance because they want to go buy alcohol and party instead. This is actually fairly common. If you can't afford healthcare there is medicaid in our country which is insurance for the poor! If you do not qualify for medicaid that means you can afford healthcare (you may have to sacrifice that cell phone, cable television package, vacation, cigarettes, etc.). The reason so many people do not have insurance is because they are taking advantage of the system. If they get sick they get help through the emergency rooms and catholic hospitals and then declare bankruptcy so that don't have to pay. They take their chances and buy a nicer car instead of health insurance because health insurance is not fun. It should be illegal to live without health insurance just like its illegal to drive without car insurance. If you can't afford it then the government can provide a safety net until you get back on your feet and can afford it.
ku06 said:46 million is a gross overestimate from what I've heard. Some undershoot 30 mil others overshoot it, but when these "studies" are said and done it comes out somewhere around 30 mil. Many of these people choose not to have healthcare. Where I work, I am given health insurance. Many of the other 23 year olds and up do not take the health insurance because they want to go buy alcohol and party instead. This is actually fairly common. If you can't afford healthcare there is medicaid in our country which is insurance for the poor! If you do not qualify for medicaid that means you can afford healthcare (you may have to sacrifice that cell phone, cable television package, vacation, cigarettes, etc.). The reason so many people do not have insurance is because they are taking advantage of the system. If they get sick they get help through the emergency rooms and catholic hospitals and then declare bankruptcy so that don't have to pay. They take their chances and buy a nicer car instead of health insurance because health insurance is not fun. It should be illegal to live without health insurance just like its illegal to drive without car insurance. If you can't afford it then the government can provide a safety net until you get back on your feet and can afford it.[/QUO
Very true!!!!!!!
Mithridates said:Canadian here. I agree, those are some pretty sad and horrible statistics. I wasn't surprised (but was still sad) to see those stats about Canada. Like waiting 3 months for an MRI. Canada/Britain have a very different health care system than the US. But in Canada, things may move a little slower, and this may affect the progression of illness, but at least everyone who needs it will eventually get it. The US has a disgusting disparity in health care when socio-economic factors are played in. I read an article the other day that says that 46 million americans have no health insurance whatsoever. Sucks to be them huh?! What do you do if you get cancer, and have no money or health insurance. Your ability to access health care in Canada/Britain does not depend on the amount of money you have. Although it has its problems, Health Care in Canada is quite simply amazing.
I know that some of what I've said has a pretty high *flame* index. It's a controversial issue. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. So, please be nice.
Mithridates said:I don't think anyone's really flaming me here. I'm learning a little more about the US healthcare system with these posts. But you say people come to the US for private dentistry. That's B.S. Medicine, yes, but not dentistry. Dentistry is pretty much the same - private.
Mithridates said:I never said it was free.
Canada's policy is that everyone looks after everyone else. It's a community. In America, it seems that a person's illness is their individual problem. But the truth is that it isn't. Poor people getting sick and having related financial problems hurts everyone, the rich and the poor.
Mithridates said:So, are you saying that they didn't like Canadian-trained dentists? Or that they just have a problem with Canadians. Grab a catalogue of dentists in the toronto area from the Ontario Dental Association, and you'll find that a whole bunch of them (I wouldn't be surprised to guess 20%) are trained at US schools.
I don't think that good credit is an issue with many people on the bottom of the socioeconomic scale. If your pulling down $18,000 per year and have a family of 4, its not like your going to go out and buy a house or a new car. Besides their credit is already bad from not paying the light bill on time. I'm not making fun of them, this is just one of the sad facts of american culture. When your poor you prioritize and food definately comes first. With this being said I prefer our way to anyone elses. Some people may not have insurance, and some may not even have a car. However, I don't see many malnourished people around.Mithridates said:Throw it in the trash, and get all kinds of credit problems?! Sure, you can get the healthcare, but then what? Then you gotta worry about money afterwards. Is that okay with you guys? I think that when someone's really sick, they should just have to worry about getting better.
Money and medicine just don't mix.
Mithridates said:I understand. You were just retelling what they had told you. I guess I took it the wrong way because of this statement:
There is no waiting for dentistry in Canada. For the most part, it's private like in the US. There's no situation in which someone who could afford american dental services can't get canadian dental services.
Medicine is a whole other story, and since this is a dental forum, maybe we should leave it at that.
Mithridates said:I couldn't disagree with this more. Tell this to someone who has MS, Parkinson's Disease, or some sort of other debilitating long-term disease. Every human being on earth is entitled to health care, no matter how little or how hard they work. In this post, you act like health care should be something you budget for like paying the rent, groceries, etc. People's health is too important a thing to be dealt with in this way.
Mithridates said:No, food is more important than healthcare. That's why people take care of that themselves , and why most are successful in doing so. I wouldn't trust any government to be the sole supplier of my nutrition.
I think that ultimately, socialized medicine is a moral issue. Having more money can buy you a better health insurance plan than what someone could get if they were poor. Say two people have the exact same illness. One works hard but is poor, the other works hard but is wealthy. Does the wealthier person deserve a higher quality of health care than the poor person just because they have more money. Are the wealthier more entitled to relief of pain and suffering? I guess if you can understand my reasoning here, you can understand why I like socialized medicine.
I feel like in this thread, there's sorta been an attitude that how much money you have is a direct result of how hard you work, or your desire to get on top. I disagree with this.
Fullosseus, I'm a first year dental student in Boston.
KY2007 said:Here in the good ole US of A we do things a little different. If you can't afford to get that tumor removed from your head, well you just go to the hospital and have it removed anyway. Then when the bill for $150,000 dollars comes in the mail, we just go ahead and throw it in the trash with all the other junk mail. j
KY2007 said:I don't think that good credit is an issue with many people on the bottom of the socioeconomic scale. If your pulling down $18,000 per year and have a family of 4, its not like your going to go out and buy a house or a new car. Besides their credit is already bad from not paying the light bill on time. I'm not making fun of them, this is just one of the sad facts of american culture. When your poor you prioritize and food definately comes first. With this being said I prefer our way to anyone elses. Some people may not have insurance, and some may not even have a car. However, I don't see many malnourished people around.
Mithridates said:I couldn't disagree with this more. Tell this to someone who has MS, Parkinson's Disease, or some sort of other debilitating long-term disease. Every human being on earth is entitled to health care, no matter how little or how hard they work. In this post, you act like health care should be something you budget for like paying the rent, groceries, etc. People's health is too important a thing to be dealt with in this way.
Mithridates said:maybe I haven't made myself clear. When I say health care I mean medical care, like from an MD. When I mean dental care, I say dental care.
Mithridates said:maybe I haven't made myself clear. When I say health care I mean medical care, like from an MD. When I mean dental care, I say dental care.
Mithridates said:what were you gonna say? That dental care is health care? If so, I agree. In canada they use those words to make the distinction.
Hey man, as long as you're not blatently flaming me, it's okay to say stuff. I think I've learned a lot from this thread. Just because you say something that contradicts what I have said, doesn't make it mean.
As for socialism being bad, you can lick my balls. But seriously, look at where you're saying that from. You're prob. a pretty successful dentist. You don't have to worry about having lower tier health care. But I guess that's the american philosophy, right? Every man for himself.
The US has a disgusting disparity in health care when socio-economic factors are played in. I read an article the other day that says that 46 million americans have no health insurance whatsoever. Sucks to be them huh?!
Mithridates said:LIke, check this out: [pdf file]http://www.familiesusa.org/site/DocServer/holesreport.pdf?docID=662
The problem with fullosseus' voucher idea is that there's always gonna be people left out.
Mithridates said:...I have absolutely no idea what you're talking a boot?
Mithridates said:Oh yeah, that's back when Nixon was in office and I could buy a cup of coffee for 20 cents. My mistake.
So this makes their statistics and tables irrelevant?
Mithridates said:I'm well aware of the ways data can be manipulated. However, I feel that you can make better generalizations about medical care by looking at possibly skewed statistics, than by looking at one case study about suzie poo in the UK who had to go to the US to get diagnosed correctly. The point I was trying to make is that there are no canadian citizens who don't have structured medical care. You could not make a report like that in canada.
Please someone answer me this: Imagine you are one of those unfortunate people who don't qualify for medicaid or medicare, can't afford a private health plan, and don't get a health plan for work. If you get sick you can get treated, but if those costs are so huge that you can't pay them off, what do you do?!! aside from filing for bankruptcy which is a bullsh*t option
Is bankruptcy the only option.
Fullosseousflap said:Alright we need a bit of levity to break up the discussion.
Click here and find out Canada's hidden socialistic healthcare agenda.
mike3kgt said:We need more SDNers/dentists like you... keep up the fight!
-Mike
Mithridates said:I'm well aware of the ways data can be manipulated. However, I feel that you can make better generalizations about medical care by looking at possibly skewed statistics, than by looking at one case study about suzie poo in the UK who had to go to the US to get diagnosed correctly. The point I was trying to make is that there are no canadian citizens who don't have structured medical care. You could not make a report like that in canada.
Please someone answer me this: Imagine you are one of those unfortunate people who don't qualify for medicaid or medicare, can't afford a private health plan, and don't get a health plan for work. If you get sick you can get treated, but if those costs are so huge that you can't pay them off, what do you do?!! aside from filing for bankruptcy which is a bullsh*t option
Is bankruptcy the only option.
Mithridates said:Hey buddy! Nice to meet someone else from TO, and someone who shares my ideals. Yeah, I totally won't mind paying high taxes for great social welfare and universal medical care for all. I'm still unclear about this american system though. But I was talking to some of my american classmates the other day, and all agreed that a large segment of the population is marginalized. Most said they would prefer the canadian system. I also plan on going back up to canada, so long as I don't get hitched with some american hottie.
Mithridates said:So this makes their statistics and tables irrelevant?