COVID Pandemic Exposes the Ugly Secrets Hidden in America’s Healthcare System

[DrMetal]

This painting is priceless.

COVID Pandemic Exposes the Ugly Secrets Hidden in America’s Healthcare System:

A Physician Speaks Out, Healthcare Workers Unite

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[KnuxNole]

As someone who is NOT in New York, I commend everyone on the front lines. I have heard stories through social media about what's going on. My state doesn't even come close to the number of cases in NYC, but this does start to frighten me, especially with the concern about lack of PPE.

 

[tantacles]

This is an amazing article. I'm lucky enough right now to be in an academic hospital system that has been extremely transparent and has been planning despite a low volume of cases in our urban area. Elective surgeries are canceled. I hope I never have to deal with administrators like these, though I know my time will come.

 

[Meerkatology]

-US has less population density and more resources than china.
-US had 2 month head start to prepare while we watched events unfold in china.
...
-US will soon exceed china's infection #'s / death's by many folds.
-US healthcare workers have far worse PPE than those in china

so much for "greatest country in the world" eh?

so china/canada among others have banned americans from entering.
ill have to run to mexico now when **** hits the fan in california. i guess trump's wall was actually built to stop me.

 

[DrMetal]

-US has less population density and more resources than china.
-US had 2 month head start to prepare while we watched events unfold in china.
...
-US will soon exceed china's infection #'s / death's by many folds.
-US healthcare workers have far worse PPE than those in china

so much for "greatest country in the world" eh?

so china/canada among others have banned americans from entering.
ill have to run to mexico now when **** hits the fan in california. i guess trump's wall was actually built to stop me.

Eehh, I'll still take my chances in the United States. I'd rather be in an American ICU than a Tijuana one.

 

[Meerkatology]

U think there will be an icu bed left in a few weeks?

Nyc is trying to hook two ppl to one vent

 

[DrMetal]

U think there will be an icu bed left in a few weeks?

Nyc is trying to hook two ppl to one vent

You 'ever seen the inside of a Tijuana ICU? oh boy....don't ask me how I know. The night may have started off at a Tijuana strip club..........

 

[deleted480308]

-US has less population density and more resources than china.
-US had 2 month head start to prepare while we watched events unfold in china.
...
-US will soon exceed china's infection #'s / death's by many folds.
-US healthcare workers have far worse PPE than those in china

so much for "greatest country in the world" eh?

so china/canada among others have banned americans from entering.
ill have to run to mexico now when **** hits the fan in california. i guess trump's wall was actually built to stop me.

We aren’t literally welding people into apartments so yeah....we’re still better than china

 

[Meerkatology]

We aren’t literally welding people into apartments so yeah....we’re still better than china

I frankly wouldnt mind losing some human rights in order to stop a full on plague. The alternative is what we have here - partying and packing beaches while healthcare workers risk their lives helping them without proper protection

Im not aware that the chinese govt did anything overtly unreasonable other than branding the initial doctor who reported the case as a criminal. And that was the action of one incompetent official. Even that pales to what trump is doing to this country

 

[deleted480308]

I frankly wouldnt mind losing some human rights in order to stop a full on plague. The alternative is what we have here - partying and packing beaches while healthcare workers risk their lives helping them without proper protection

Im not aware that the chinese govt did anything overtly unreasonable other than branding the initial doctor who reported the case as a criminal. And that was the action of one incompetent official. Even that pales to what trump is doing to this country

You and I disagree on priorities.

I also find calling trump more dangerous than china in terms of how we are treating our citizens is laughable

 

[Meerkatology]

You and I disagree on priorities.

I also find calling trump more dangerous than china in terms of how we are treating our citizens is laughable

u mean complete and utter failure to contain a pandemic while going against every expert/governor's advice and then encouraging racism by blaming it on the "chinese virus?" he at one point refused to be tested after exposure, endangering everyone around him. he is not only ignorant but lacks any quality of a decent human being.

i don't find it so laughable, the only reason he has not/cannot do as much damage is because the US constitution limits his powers.
if he were to exchange places... who knows.

but lets see how this thing pans out, i may have to take back the part about him not being able to do as much dmg

 

[spartanwarrior]

-US has less population density and more resources than china.
-US had 2 month head start to prepare while we watched events unfold in china.
...
-US will soon exceed china's infection #'s / death's by many folds.
-US healthcare workers have far worse PPE than those in china

so much for "greatest country in the world" eh?

so china/canada among others have banned americans from entering.
ill have to run to mexico now when **** hits the fan in california. i guess trump's wall was actually built to stop me.

that's if you believe China's numbers. What nationality are you?

 

[spartanwarrior]

u mean complete and utter failure to contain a pandemic while going against every expert/governor's advice and then encouraging racism by blaming it on the "chinese virus?" he at one point refused to be tested after exposure, endangering everyone around him. he is not only ignorant but lacks any quality of a decent human being.

i don't find it so laughable, the only reason he has not/cannot do as much damage is because the US constitution limits his powers.
if he were to exchange places... who knows.

but lets see how this thing pans out, i may have to take back the part about him not being able to do as much dmg

Interesting how those that come here for a better life with more civil liberties and opportunity to succeed than anywhere in the world, are the most ardent critics at times of the leaders of this nation and the system in general. I guess Ebola and Lyme's are racist as well. I'm sure you'd fare much better under the caring system of the Chinese Community Party or under the Kleptocracy in Russia.

 

[spartanwarrior]

I frankly wouldnt mind losing some human rights in order to stop a full on plague. The alternative is what we have here - partying and packing beaches while healthcare workers risk their lives helping them without proper protection

Im not aware that the chinese govt did anything overtly unreasonable other than branding the initial doctor who reported the case as a criminal. And that was the action of one incompetent official. Even that pales to what trump is doing to this country

like a guppy, you swallowed it hook line and sinker....you must be the CCP's PR rep.

Report from the UK today: scientists briefed Prime Minister Boris Johnson that China could have underreported its coronavirus spread "by a factor of 15 to 40 times".

Hmm..that would put China's numbers as high as 3.2 million infected and over 132,000 dead. TRANSPARENCY IS THE KEY.

Estimates Show Wuhan Death Toll Far Higher Than Official Figure

Based on cremation figures, Wuhan residents estimate more than 40,000 have died, compared with an official toll of 2,535.

www.rfa.org

Need I say more?

 

[tantacles]

Interesting how those that come here for a better life with more civil liberties and opportunity to succeed than anywhere in the world, are the most ardent critics at times of the leaders of this nation and the system in general. I guess Ebola and Lyme's are racist as well. I'm sure you'd fare much better under the caring system of the Chinese Community Party or under the Kleptocracy in Russia.

I think your perspective is interesting, and I also think that being critical of our leaders is important. I think if we all dug deep, we could totally give this administration a compliment sandwich, but I also think we have some huge problems, like Trump calling the virus the Chinese Virus and the so far limited mobilization of resources with regard to PPE that's been rationed to hospitals in critical areas, leading to increased spread.

I think there's a middle ground here. There's a place for government to shut down public spaces, as they now have been doing (delayed in some areas, but that's neither here nor there), but there's also a role for some personal freedoms, like the right to get food.

The only comparison we truly need to make to other countries is "what can we do better to keep people safe while preserving people's rights?" It's uncalled for to malign people based on perceived nationality.

 

[spartanwarrior]

I think your perspective is interesting, and I also think that being critical of our leaders is important. I think if we all dug deep, we could totally give this administration a compliment sandwich, but I also think we have some huge problems, like Trump calling the virus the Chinese Virus and the so far limited mobilization of resources with regard to PPE that's been rationed to hospitals in critical areas, leading to increased spread.

I think there's a middle ground here. There's a place for government to shut down public spaces, as they now have been doing (delayed in some areas, but that's neither here nor there), but there's also a role for some personal freedoms, like the right to get food.

The only comparison we truly need to make to other countries is "what can we do better to keep people safe while preserving people's rights?" It's uncalled for to malign people based on perceived nationality.

In regards to your last statement, I disagree. I was not maligning but educating the ignorant and probably willfully ignorant individual. Of course there can be a middle ground, but there are some of us that have bled, suffered, and died for the freedom of speech of those that use irrational rhetoric. When others that come here have not sacrificed for the freedoms we Americans hold dear, they best have some humility, but at best, informed opinions.

 

[tantacles]

In regards to your last statement, I disagree. I was not maligning but educating the ignorant and probably willfully ignorant individual. Of course there can be a middle ground, but there are some of us that have bled, suffered, and died for the freedom of speech of those that use irrational rhetoric. When others that come here have not sacrificed for the freedoms we Americans hold dear, they best have some humility, but at best, informed opinions.

"that's if you believe China's numbers. What nationality are you?"

This comment heavily implies that you are assuming the poster is Chinese and that their comment is invalid because of that. You absolutely were maligning that poster for perceived nationality, and I feel obligated to object to it.

If you have an objection to someone's opinion, stick to logic. Your subsequent post had plenty of logic, but this post was not ok.

 

[spartanwarrior]

"that's if you believe China's numbers. What nationality are you?"

This comment heavily implies that you are assuming the poster is Chinese and that their comment is invalid because of that. You absolutely were maligning that poster for perceived nationality, and I feel obligated to object to it.

If you have an objection to someone's opinion, stick to logic. Your subsequent post had plenty of logic, but this post was not ok.

Of course you're wrong. You put those two statements and extrapolated something that was not there. Perhaps you should go into telepathy.

Look back at the statemen the OP made" ill have to run to mexico now when **** hits the fan in california. i guess trump's wall was actually built to stop me." From this I made the assumption he was not an American or at least not born here.

Secondly, the OP made this statement: "
US has less population density and more resources than china.
-US had 2 month head start to prepare while we watched events unfold in china.
...
-US will soon exceed china's infection #'s / death's by many folds.
-US healthcare workers have far worse PPE than those in china

so much for "greatest country in the world" eh?

so china/canada among others have banned americans from entering."

From that, this is where I responded with "that's if you believe China's numbers"

I guess I need to draw and connect the lines for you genius!

You must be a snowflake or something..

 

[Meerkatology]

Interesting how those that come here for a better life with more civil liberties and opportunity to succeed than anywhere in the world, are the most ardent critics at times of the leaders of this nation and the system in general. I guess Ebola and Lyme's are racist as well. I'm sure you'd fare much better under the caring system of the Chinese Community Party or under the Kleptocracy in Russia.

let me get this straight, what you are essentially saying is:

1. you assume im a minority
2. because im a minority im in no place to criticize the leaders of this country because its "my privilege" to be here living the good life?

how very trump of you.

In regards to your last statement, I disagree. I was not maligning but educating the ignorant and probably willfully ignorant individual. Of course there can be a middle ground, but there are some of us that have bled, suffered, and died for the freedom of speech of those that use irrational rhetoric. When others that come here have not sacrificed for the freedoms we Americans hold dear, they best have some humility, but at best, informed opinions.

since you yourself have bled and suffered for our rights. how dare those immigrants question the fruits of your effort.

now good sir, if you would enlighten my puny ignorant mind on what specific sacrifices you have made for my freedom of speech and which fields of battle did you bleed on.

 

[deleted480308]

let me get this straight, what you are essentially saying is:

1. you assume im a minority
2. because im a minority im in no place to criticize the leaders of this country because its "my privilege" to be here living the good life?

how very trump of you.



since you yourself have bled and suffered for our rights. how dare those immigrants question the fruits of your effort.

now good sir, if you would enlighten my puny ignorant mind on what specific sacrifices you have made for my freedom of speech and which fields of battle did you bleed on.

We could also just talk about the absurd defense of china from a human rights standpoint... why?

 

[spartanwarrior]

let me get this straight, what you are essentially saying is:

1. you assume im a minority
2. because im a minority im in no place to criticize the leaders of this country because its "my privilege" to be here living the good life?

how very trump of you.



since you yourself have bled and suffered for our rights. how dare those immigrants question the fruits of your effort.

now good sir, if you would enlighten my puny ignorant mind on what specific sacrifices you have made for my freedom of speech and which fields of battle did you bleed on.

Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Actually I assumed nothing, you told us...

Ad hominem attacks does nothing to give credence to your flawed argument which I won clearly....

 

[Meerkatology]

Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Actually I assumed nothing, you told us...

Ad hominem attacks does nothing to give credence to your flawed argument which I won clearly....

this just in, wordiness doesn't make u sound smart. keep that in mind for interviews.

i told you what? my statement about trump building a wall? it was a merely a satirical reference to the Berlin wall, which was supposedly to keep out west germans but it truly just served to stop east germans from escaping their own country.

 

[spartanwarrior]

this just in, wordiness doesn't make u sound smart. keep that in mind for interviews.

i told you what? my statement about trump building a wall? it was a merely a satirical reference to the Berlin wall, which was supposedly to keep out west germans but it truly just served to stop east germans from escaping their own country.

someone has a limited lexicon, so therefore has to resort to personal attacks in order to save face...try verbose instead, sounds much more elegant and "smart".

great, so even better. you're an American that thinks a totalitarian government is doing better than this country. I'm sure we could arrange a one way flight for you to Wuhan and then write us a letter telling us how great things are there..

" frankly wouldnt mind losing some human rights in order to stop a full on plague." I'm sure those in the Holocaust said the same about their captors and the Uighers in Xinjiang...wow, the utter absurdity of your statement is nothing less than ludicrous... your myopic view of the world is frightening....

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

 

[deleted270145]

Of course you're wrong. You put those two statements and extrapolated something that was not there. Perhaps you should go into telepathy.

Look back at the statemen the OP made" ill have to run to mexico now when **** hits the fan in california. i guess trump's wall was actually built to stop me." From this I made the assumption he was not an American or at least not born here.

Secondly, the OP made this statement: "
US has less population density and more resources than china.
-US had 2 month head start to prepare while we watched events unfold in china.
...
-US will soon exceed china's infection #'s / death's by many folds.
-US healthcare workers have far worse PPE than those in china

so much for "greatest country in the world" eh?

so china/canada among others have banned americans from entering."

From that, this is where I responded with "that's if you believe China's numbers"

I guess I need to draw and connect the lines for you genius!

You must be a snowflake or something..

Your argument skills are weak to the point that you need to resort to name-calling ("snowflake") and belittlement ("I guess I need to draw and connect the lines for you genius!").

The post about the wall that you were referring to was clearly meant to sarcastically reference to the irony of how Trump's wall was meant to keep Mexicans and Central/South American refugees out of the US, but now that the US has the most cases/deaths from COVID-19, it's more apt for other countries (i.e., Mexico) to want to prevent Americans from crossing into their countries.

that's if you believe China's numbers. What nationality are you?

In regards to your last statement, I disagree. I was not maligning but educating the ignorant and probably willfully ignorant individual. Of course there can be a middle ground, but there are some of us that have bled, suffered, and died for the freedom of speech of those that use irrational rhetoric. When others that come here have not sacrificed for the freedoms we Americans hold dear, they best have some humility, but at best, informed opinions.

You're making repeated assumptions that the poster is an immigrant/minority. What you're basing these assumptions on is anyone's guess because in my reading of his/her posts, this person didn't say anything about where they or their family is from. Do you find it hard to believe that an American-born Caucasian individual could possibly be criticizing our dear supreme leader?

And you're taking it one step further by implying that immigrants who haven't "sacrificed for the freedoms we Americans hold dear" need to have "humility" when criticizing the leaders of this country. If anything, it sounds like you're the snowflake and got real triggered...

Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Actually I assumed nothing, you told us...

Ad hominem attacks does nothing to give credence to your flawed argument which I won clearly....

You definitely didn't win the argument, champ.

 

[deleted270145]

And for the record, I am taking anything the Chinese government reports about the incidence/mortality rate of COVID-19 within their borders with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Little Green Mensch]

To be honest, considering that the Wuhan Flu hits diabetics and the obese far harder than metabolically-healthy individuals, we are fortunate that our deaths have not been higher. Americans are not, by and large, a healthy people. This speaks, I think, to the fact that our ability to provide supportive acute care is pretty good. There is certainly the potential that things could get much worse, of course, especially if we start to run out of hospital and ICU beds.

I would be extremely hesitant to compare our numbers to China, because it is obvious that the Chinese government has lied through its teeth from the very beginning of this epidemic.

 

[deleted927028]

New York Times



People say free market capitalism brings out innovation and lowers the cost. I always said free market will never work for essential services and goods. Here is the proof. The following lines prove what kind of animals we have become and how government run healthcare leads the rest of the world.



“But the team has not yet reached an agreement with a North American manufacturer, in part because the major pharmaceutical companies there typically demand exclusive worldwide rights before investing in a potential medicine.

“I personally don’t believe that in a time of pandemic there should be exclusive licenses,” Professor Hill said. “So we are asking a lot of them. Nobody is going to make a lot of money off this.” “

 

[deleted480308]

New York Times



People say free market capitalism brings out innovation and lowers the cost. I always said free market will never work for essential services and goods. Here is the proof. The following lines prove what kind of animals we have become and how government run healthcare leads the rest of the world.



“But the team has not yet reached an agreement with a North American manufacturer, in part because the major pharmaceutical companies there typically demand exclusive worldwide rights before investing in a potential medicine.

“I personally don’t believe that in a time of pandemic there should be exclusive licenses,” Professor Hill said. “So we are asking a lot of them. Nobody is going to make a lot of money off this.” “

Then dr. Hill can make the medicine if it’s so easy

If they want a huge investment from companies that do this for a living....pay them

 

[deleted927028]

Then dr. Hill can make the medicine if it’s so easy

If they want a huge investment from companies that do this for a living....pay them

What huge investment? So, you justify vultures demanding worldwide exclusive rights to rip off people at the time of pandemic when they had no hand in inventing the vaccine?

 

[deleted480308]

What huge investment? So, you justify vultures demanding worldwide exclusive rights to rip off people at the time of pandemic when they had no hand in inventing the vaccine?

Manufacturing takes investment too, there has to be a payoff for the financial risk

 

[deleted927028]

Manufacturing takes investment too, there has to be a payoff for the financial risk

That’s why our government has to either take over the healthcare sector or at least have a parallel involvement. If we had built government owned plants, we need not beg the private companies or foreign countries for everything.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That’s why our government has to either take over the healthcare sector or at least have a parallel involvement. If we had built government owned plants, we need not beg the private companies or foreign countries for everything.

And there is an argument to be made for having things like generic meds and medical supplies be made by the government as a national security issue.

 

[deleted480308]

And there is an argument to be made for having things like generic meds and medical supplies be made by the government as a national security issue.

I’m gonna disagree philosophically but I understand the initial appeal for those not of my bent

 

[TwistedTea]

That’s why our government has to either take over the healthcare sector or at least have a parallel involvement. If we had built government owned plants, we need not beg the private companies or foreign countries for everything.

Yes the government involving itself in a supply chain automatically fixes the problem. History proves this.
/s

 

[deleted927028]

Yes the government involving itself in a supply chain automatically fixes the problem. History proves this.
/s

Of course, it will fix the problem. Look at other countries.

 

[deleted480308]

Of course, it will fix the problem. Look at other countries.

Our system is better

 

[deleted927028]

Now, if the vaccine from Oxford gets the approval (seems almost guaranteed) and it becomes available in September as predicted, Americans will miss out on affordable/free and early access to the vaccine. Because our private companies are not interested in manufacturing that vaccine as it doesn’t guarantee them billions. The government cannot import those vaccines because the countries that are lined up to manufacture those vaccine, will serve their population first. So what will happen? Either NIH sponsored vaccine gets the approval and they transfer the patent with exclusive rights to a private entity for hefty bribe or a private company might come up with a vaccine which is highly unlikely. Either way, Americans/insurance will be paying more than $10000 for the vaccine and probably six months of later. Everyone will celebrate and claim that this is the best deal of the world and demand the government to keep stay away from their lives. Because they have been brainwashed to believe that IT IS THE FREEDOM.

 

[deleted927028]

Our system is better

Yeah, if you millions to throw away

 

[deleted480308]

Now, if the vaccine from Oxford gets the approval (seems almost guaranteed) and it becomes available in September as predicted, Americans will miss out on affordable/free and early access to the vaccine. Because our private companies are not interested in manufacturing that vaccine as it doesn’t guarantee them billions. The government cannot import those vaccines because the countries that are lined up to manufacture those vaccine, will serve their population first. So what will happen? Either NIH sponsored vaccine gets the approval and they transfer the patent with exclusive rights to a private entity for hefty bribe or a private company might come up with a vaccine which is highly unlikely. Either way, Americans/insurance will be paying more than $10000 for the vaccine and probably six months of later. Everyone will celebrate and claim that this is the best deal of the world and demand the government to keep stay away from their lives. Because they have been brainwashed to believe that IT IS THE FREEDOM.

Really the NIH shouldn’t be funding anything, that would be more freedom

 

[deleted927028]

Health Insurance Premiums Could Rise by Over 40% Due to Coronavirus, Study Warns | The Motley Fool

U.S. insurers will have to pay tens (or hundreds) of billions of dollars to cover the treatment of COVID-19 patients, and we should expect them to pass those costs along.

www.fool.com

May just now started, but the vultures already collide together to decide how royally they can rape the Americans next year. Imagine what would be the outrage if the government increased the income, sales or Medicare tax by 40%. or even 1%. The entire country will be up in flames. But If private companies raise the insurance premium by 40% or any %, no one will open their mouth, citizens, politicians, media guys and everyone. Because they have been brainwashed into believing that IT IS FREEDOM AND WE ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HAVE THE FREEDOM.

Today I came to know about concierge healthcare model, I really liked it and got excited. For a minute I thought of going for this option along with a catastrophic coverage to free myself from thr vultures called private insurance. It would have saved me at least 80% . But those vultures already figured it out, bribed the politicians and shut that door by making it not available pretty much everyone that would use it. They ensured that no one can escape. SO MUCH FOR FREEDOM AND FREE MARKET. So, basically the corporations can do anything they want, they can raise the premiums by whatever they want but the government should not control them BECAUSE, DOING SO IS SOCIALISM. But it is absolutely fine if these same corporations bribe the politicians and put controls on vulnerable people BECAUSE IT IS FREEDOM. WTF man?

I am seriously wondering, is there any other country where people are more stupid and take pride in their stupidity? I doubt it.
I can also guarantee this, no other country around the world where they have socialized medicine will not raise the tax on their citizens by no more than 2% or they may not raise it at all. But who cares? Those people live in a socialist country. We are such a incorrigible fools who always vote against our own interest every single time. Today I read an article, they interviewed the people of one race and asked what are the things want for their community. More than 80% of them asked for pretty much everything Bernie offered including government run healthcare. You know what ? They still voted overwhelmingly against Bernie TWICE and they are the PRIMARY reason why Bernie lost the 2020 nomination. Why did they do that even after knowing Bernie stood for all those things that they want? Because both times, the candidates they overwhelmingly voted for, had worked for their guy. Go figure !!! I hope they have 40% extra for next year.

 

[FutureInternist]

The folks who are against government funded healthcare system like to point out the “death squads” that other governments have supposedly set up.

Italy did implement a “if you’re older than X, have a nice week of life while we save the younger folks”.

Diseases that overwhelm the system in such a way are rare and thus so will these types of restrictions.

The “if you can’t pay for it then you don’t deserve it” folks are OK with using police, firefighters, roads, schools (depending on # of kids), public parks, libraries etc etc etc, that they didn’t fully pay for, but then since they (thankfully for them) have the funds for pretty good healthcare (limited by what insurance and which docs within those insurance your employer picks), they cannot fathom someone else getting it for “free”.

Somehow I doubt that these same folks would be OK with unplugging their spouse from the vent as soon as their insurance runs out, but since the chances of that for any one individual is small, they continue to bang the “don’t give any free healthcare” drums.

Additionally, although logic isn’t their strong suit, they fail to see the connection b/w an investment made into a populace’s healthcare and the huge dividends it pays in terms of inc’d productivity, less stress, less mental health issues etc.

Trillions for military, trillions for business bailouts and trillions for tax cuts and in $ sitting in offshore accounts is somehow OK, but lets make sure the downtrodden, bad luck folks don’t get PCP visit w/o paying for it.... sickening.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Trillions for military, trillions for business bailouts and trillions for tax cuts and in $ sitting in offshore accounts is somehow OK, but lets make sure the downtrodden, bad luck folks don’t get PCP visit w/o paying for it.... sickening.

Mayhaps all those things are not good.

 

[deleted480308]

Health Insurance Premiums Could Rise by Over 40% Due to Coronavirus, Study Warns | The Motley Fool

U.S. insurers will have to pay tens (or hundreds) of billions of dollars to cover the treatment of COVID-19 patients, and we should expect them to pass those costs along.

www.fool.com

May just now started, but the vultures already collide together to decide how royally they can rape the Americans next year. Imagine what would be the outrage if the government increased the income, sales or Medicare tax by 40%. or even 1%. The entire country will be up in flames. But If private companies raise the insurance premium by 40% or any %, no one will open their mouth, citizens, politicians, media guys and everyone. Because they have been brainwashed into believing that IT IS FREEDOM AND WE ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HAVE THE FREEDOM.

Today I came to know about concierge healthcare model, I really liked it and got excited. For a minute I thought of going for this option along with a catastrophic coverage to free myself from thr vultures called private insurance. It would have saved me at least 80% . But those vultures already figured it out, bribed the politicians and shut that door by making it not available pretty much everyone that would use it. They ensured that no one can escape. SO MUCH FOR FREEDOM AND FREE MARKET. So, basically the corporations can do anything they want, they can raise the premiums by whatever they want but the government should not control them BECAUSE, DOING SO IS SOCIALISM. But it is absolutely fine if these same corporations bribe the politicians and put controls on vulnerable people BECAUSE IT IS FREEDOM. WTF man?

I am seriously wondering, is there any other country where people are more stupid and take pride in their stupidity? I doubt it.
I can also guarantee this, no other country around the world where they have socialized medicine will not raise the tax on their citizens by no more than 2% or they may not raise it at all. But who cares? Those people live in a socialist country. We are such a incorrigible fools who always vote against our own interest every single time. Today I read an article, they interviewed the people of one race and asked what are the things want for their community. More than 80% of them asked for pretty much everything Bernie offered including government run healthcare. You know what ? They still voted overwhelmingly against Bernie TWICE and they are the PRIMARY reason why Bernie lost the 2020 nomination. Why did they do that even after knowing Bernie stood for all those things that they want? Because both times, the candidates they overwhelmingly voted for, had worked for their guy. Go figure !!! I hope they have 40% extra for next year.

Your problem is with the govt barring you from the freedom to just buy catastrophic coverage, not capitalism

 

[deleted480308]

The folks who are against government funded healthcare system like to point out the “death squads” that other governments have supposedly set up.

Italy did implement a “if you’re older than X, have a nice week of life while we save the younger folks”.

Diseases that overwhelm the system in such a way are rare and thus so will these types of restrictions.

The “if you can’t pay for it then you don’t deserve it” folks are OK with using police, firefighters, roads, schools (depending on # of kids), public parks, libraries etc etc etc, that they didn’t fully pay for, but then since they (thankfully for them) have the funds for pretty good healthcare (limited by what insurance and which docs within those insurance your employer picks), they cannot fathom someone else getting it for “free”.

Somehow I doubt that these same folks would be OK with unplugging their spouse from the vent as soon as their insurance runs out, but since the chances of that for any one individual is small, they continue to bang the “don’t give any free healthcare” drums.

Additionally, although logic isn’t their strong suit, they fail to see the connection b/w an investment made into a populace’s healthcare and the huge dividends it pays in terms of inc’d productivity, less stress, less mental health issues etc.

Trillions for military, trillions for business bailouts and trillions for tax cuts and in $ sitting in offshore accounts is somehow OK, but lets make sure the downtrodden, bad luck folks don’t get PCP visit w/o paying for it.... sickening.

Sir/ma’am you built an army of strawmen there

 

[FutureInternist]

Mayhaps all those things are not good.

For sure they are not.
But have to have realistic goals, so completely ending them (or corruption in politics) is not possible.
Aim for the greatest good for the greatest number...... or at least a minimal good for a bunch of folks

 

[FutureInternist]

Sir/ma’am you built an army of strawmen there

Pointing out that there is more than enough $, to pay for healthcare for all is not a strawman when folks are saying there is not enough $, to pay for healthcare for all.

Pointing out that folks who would deny others certain things, while availing themselves of those same things (w/o paying for them) is legitimate.

Folks here who rail against government subsidised healthcare seem to have no trouble with subsidised medical school... and guess what, its paying off major dividends in terms of productivity, increased tax collection etc since it was an investment that the government made in you.

Even if you do have insurance, it is still being subsidised by healthier individuals, so even then you are not paying your full share, but ofcourse you have no problem using resources needed to fix the issues..... just as long as you get to deny them to others.

Noe back to hoping I (nor you) catch Covid at the hospital. (Fingers crossed)

 

[deleted480308]

Pointing out that there is more than enough $, to pay for healthcare for all is not a strawman when folks are saying there is not enough $, to pay for healthcare for all.

Pointing out that folks who would deny others certain things, while availing themselves of those same things (w/o paying for them) is legitimate.

Folks here who rail against government subsidised healthcare seem to have no trouble with subsidised medical school... and guess what, its paying off major dividends in terms of productivity, increased tax collection etc since it was an investment that the government made in you.

Even if you do have insurance, it is still being subsidised by healthier individuals, so even then you are not paying your full share, but ofcourse you have no problem using resources needed to fix the issues..... just as long as you get to deny them to others.

Noe back to hoping I (nor you) catch Covid at the hospital. (Fingers crossed)

The govt shouldn’t be taking enough money from us to fund health care

Wanting to end a program doesn’t mean some folks aren’t still living in a reality where the program exists and distorts their market

I don’t suppoort subsidized med school. If you mean loans,those are non discharged and paid back with interest (unlike healthcare bills). I would end pslf and stop govt involvement in loans

Don’t equate a voluntary purchase of insurance using actuarial tables with govt takeover of healthcare, you’re smarter than that

 

[VincentAdultman]

Pointing out that there is more than enough $, to pay for healthcare for all is not a strawman when folks are saying there is not enough $, to pay for healthcare for all.

Pointing out that folks who would deny others certain things, while availing themselves of those same things (w/o paying for them) is legitimate.

Folks here who rail against government subsidised healthcare seem to have no trouble with subsidised medical school... and guess what, its paying off major dividends in terms of productivity, increased tax collection etc since it was an investment that the government made in you.

Even if you do have insurance, it is still being subsidised by healthier individuals, so even then you are not paying your full share, but ofcourse you have no problem using resources needed to fix the issues..... just as long as you get to deny them to others.

Noe back to hoping I (nor you) catch Covid at the hospital. (Fingers crossed)

Pointing out “well what about forever wars and bailouts” is irrelevant when you don’t think M4A is going to be cost effective, or improve outcomes, or if you’re just ideologically against it.

 

[FutureInternist]

Pointing out “well what about forever wars and bailouts” is irrelevant when you don’t think M4A is going to be cost effective, or improve outcomes, or if you’re just ideologically against it.

Sure... but some folks were talking about it not being affordable.

Depends on one’s reason for not being for it. If some folks say they don’t want to subsidise someone else’s care then I have issues with that, but if one thinks it won’t improve outcomes (which I disagree with) then there really is no way to argue that since the only way to know for sure is to do it.

 

[FutureInternist]

The govt shouldn’t be taking enough money from us to fund health care

Wanting to end a program doesn’t mean some folks aren’t still living in a reality where the program exists and distorts their market

I don’t suppoort subsidized med school. If you mean loans,those are non discharged and paid back with interest (unlike healthcare bills). I would end pslf and stop govt involvement in loans

Don’t equate a voluntary purchase of insurance using actuarial tables with govt takeover of healthcare, you’re smarter than that

Some of the interest on the loans is subsidised by the government while we are still in school or training.

Again, your issue with government run services seems to end right where you don’t need their services (or can afford going private).

If you are truly against subsidised anything, then your world view is to have a private police force, private firefighters, private libraries, private food banks and farms going out of business, and as we have seen many times in the past (and even more so currently) private whatever does not care about anything but the bottom line and will actively harm people to get a bigger profit.