Creation of an Optometric Surgery Residency (analagous to OMFS for Dental)

[Penguin2012]

I don't care if it upsets Opthamologists. They don't care about us so screw them.

Wow, just wow. I sincerely hope this pre-opt doesn't become an optometrist. This type of attitude will not help anyone, especially himself. I can't take Gochi's opinions seriously anymore. Nothing he says is constructive.

I too am a pre-opt, starting in SCCO this fall. But I prefer to work with MDs rather than against them. If a person wants to perform extensive eye surgery, they should have gone to medical school. However, I think we can all agree that FB removal etc. can be done by optometrists.

I think this thread is becoming a flame war, maybe it should be closed.

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[eyestrain]

Who said opthamologists are the only ones capable of performing eye surgery ?

Well, I don't know what an opthamologist even is, so I won't comment on them. I do know that ophthalmologists do surgery because they went to med school and that laws and medical boards say they can.

 

[gochi]

You have got to be kidding me. You linked us to some doc's business card (notice proper use of apostrophe there) to make a point? What are you doing? None of us are so naïve as to believe that the term "optometric physician" hasn't been used before. We know that some people call themselves. All of your evidence is irrelevant because you're clearly missing the point. Would you care to tell me why you think the term optometric physician exists? I'll give you a hint: there is one and only one reason to defend the use of the term optometric physician, and that is so that we receive equal reimbursement from medical insurance providers for the procedures we code.

If you really didn't care about whether or not the term physician is associated with your name, would you have made that post? I mean honestly, you wouldn't have felt the need if that were true. I've had similar discussions with podiatry students insistent upon their so-called right to call themselves "med students" b/c they attend "podiatric medical school," i.e., podiatry school. I'm really starting to wish you'd go join that camp and quit spewing this kind of puffery all over the optometry boards. I really think you ought to heed my and others advice and just cool down. All you're doing is spinning your wheels here.

The buisness card was an example illustrating that optometrists are optometric physicians. I'm not missing the point(insurance thing), I already know what you're talking about and I do believe most doc's do aswell. And there are more reasons for having the term "physician" next to optometric.

Cool down ? I was never upset or anything. I just don't like the idea of stupidty implied by doc's in there postings, thats all.

I made the post to prove an incompressible point, which I have repeatedly. I was just stating that optometrist=optometric physician. Nothing more or less. I never said optometrists are physicians. If they were, I wouldn't become an OD.

 

[eyestrain]

And by saying that, you are calling the entire NOVA optometric student body/profs/admins etc. liars.

They're not liars, but it does seem a little pathetic to me.

If the term optometric physician was so irrelevant in the optometric world, then why is it grossly being used ?

I don't know. Probably for the same reason so many docs insist on displaying their name incorrectly as "Dr. John Doe, OD".

 

[cpw]

They're not liars, but it does seem a little pathetic to me.

It's the title that's on our licenses in the state of Florida. So, NOVA matches the state license. My license says "optometric physician".

 

[gochi]

Wow, just wow. I sincerely hope this pre-opt doesn't become an optometrist. This type of attitude will not help anyone, especially himself. I can't take Gochi's opinions seriously anymore. Nothing he says is constructive.

I too am a pre-opt, starting in SCCO this fall. But I prefer to work with MDs rather than against them. If a person wants to perform extensive eye surgery, they should have gone to medical school. However, I think we can all agree that FB removal etc. can be done by optometrists.

I think this thread is becoming a flame war, maybe it should be closed.

Go ahead, don't take my opnions seriously. Though, it's pretty obvious here, that people can't handle the truth.

Did you not read "Hello's" posting ? OMD's are gonna laugh at you. You don't care about that ?

 

[gochi]

Well, I don't know what an opthamologist even is, so I won't comment on them. I do know that ophthalmologists do surgery because they went to med school and that laws and medical boards say they can.

Goodness. Why do you keep missing the point ? Again and again......

 

[gochi]

They're not liars, but it does seem a little pathetic to me.



I don't know. Probably for the same reason so many docs insist on displaying their name incorrectly as "Dr. John Doe, OD".

Redudancy does not imply incorectness.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The buisness card was an example illustrating that optometrists are optometric physicians. I'm not missing the point(insurance thing), I already know what you're talking about and I do believe most doc's do aswell. And there are more reasons for having the term "physician" next to optometric.

Cool down ? I was never upset or anything. I just don't like the idea of stupidty implied by doc's in there postings, thats all.

I made the post to prove an incompressible point, which I have repeatedly. I was just stating that optometrist=optometric physician. Nothing more or less. I never said optometrists are physicians. If they were, I wouldn't become an OD.

Having a business card proclaiming that you are on optometric physician doesn't make it so. Having scrubs that proclaim it doesn't either. Nor does your state association, the AOA, or your mother. The only people who can make such a claim would be each state's board of examiners (See CPW's post). However, though I'm not old enough to know the thought processes behind this decision, I would bet that Florida is that way for insurance purposes.

Go talk to a bunch of working ODs and ask whether or not they call themselves Optometric Physicians on anything other than insurance forms. The general consensus around here of the practicing optometrists seems to be an overwhelming no.

 

[ProZackMI]

"Note: There is no need for an apostrophe in "docs" and their is a pronoun, whereas there is not.
1. That is one pre-optometry student's accounting of an alleged verbal transaction between her and an eye care physician. Based on her account, the doctor was questioning why she wanted to go into optometry, offered reasons why she shouldn't (limited scope of practice, etc.), and encouraged medical school. So? I would hardly say he was bashing the entire profession of optometry. He is entitled to his opinion, isn't he? Let me ask you this, Mr. Gochi, if that student was pre-pharm, and made disparaging comments about pill-counters, would your panties be wound up? What if the student said "I wanna be a lawyer when I grow up!" and the doctor went on and on about bottom-feeding, blood-sucking parasite lawyers who are worthless because he's been sued before. Would this rub your rhubarb the wrong way? The fact is, there are some people out there who have strong opinions about given professions. I remember when I was doing my psychiatry residency, I would hear comments from preceptors, professors, fellow med students, and others that I was not going to be a real doctor, blah , blah, blah. Later, when I was in law school, my God, the comments and jokes people would say. Funny, everyone hates lawyers until they need one!

I've seen your posts in the pharmacy section and they were unkind to the pharmacists. You went on last year bitching about how a PharmD was overkill, pharmacists were overpaid, and all they did was count pills and they forgot their clinical knowledge. Couldn't some of those same points be applied to optometry? Not in your empty head."


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This is the conversation from the previously posted link.

"Hey guys, so I went to the Opthamologist today because I had an appointment for my case of dry eyes (my optometrist was a good for nothing that kept offering some lame drops that never work) and so as he dilated my eyes, he asked me what I was doing with my life. I told him I was interested in Optometry..and he just cuts me off and says "WHY!?? Why would you do that to yourself? Cmon you don't want that. All you're really going to be doing is prescribing and selling glasses. This is where you want to be. All that debt youre going to be in and just to be limited to that???" lol he made a scene and sounded really pissed. He wants me to goto medical school and be an opthamologist if anything lol But I dont want to do medicine."

You can tell by the doc's tone that he was indeed looking down upon the profession of Optometry. She even mentions that the doc created a scene. I guess this can be interpreted differently.


I was bitching ? That's hilarious coming from you sir.
Pharmacists are overpaid, and effectively, there job entails counting pills. This is my "strong opinion" about the profession of Pharmacy.

Those points, about pharmacy, might apply to Optometry, more or less. But, allowing OD's to incorporate surgery would eliminate some of those points.
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2. I don't care what any optometry student at NOVA calls himself. This is hardly evidence of the existence of a health professional called an optometric physician. In Michigan, if any OD called himself that, he'd find himself in trouble for misrepresenting himself as a physician. Most states prohibit such nomenclature from being used by non MD/DO/DPMs. Other states are more liberal (e.g., Oregon and Washington). I don't care how you spin it, a chiropractor is not a chiropractic physician, a psychologist is not a psychological physician, a pharmacist is not a pharmaceutical physician, a lawyer is not a legal physician, a dentist is not a dental physician, an NP is not a Nurse Practitioner Physician, a PA is not a Physician Assistant Physician, an audiologist is not an audiometric physician, a vet is not a veterinary physician, and an optometrist is not an optometric physician. What do you call someone who holds an OD degree and is licensed to practice optometry in a state? You call him/her OPTOMETRIST. Is this concept hard for you to understand?


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I've already made clear that an optometrist is an optometric physician. No matter how educated you are, you cannot argue that fact. Again, stop asking answered questions, like qwopty99. It's getting quite ridiculous now.

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3. If I'm an idiot, why is it I can understand the difference between their and there? I can see with your razor sharp logic and highly refined critical reasoning skills how such a detail might not matter, but before you go around making ad hominem attacks regarding your opponent's intellect, you might wish to spell correctly and use proper punctuation.


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The comment about my spelling was quite hilarious.
I see you think like qwopty99. Not that it relly maters, but I think you should read the evident statements I have made about him, as they will apply to you. I hate to say this, but I really thought doc's were more intelligent.
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4. Calling all physicians egotistical is simply ridiculous and quite absurd. Wouldn't that be like me saying all optos are med school rejects who play with dials all day? Don't make sweeping generalization about a group of people without backing it up. Not all physicians are arrogant. Believe it or not, some actually want to help patients and care about their fellow human beings.

I'm not sure where you're from, but either English is not your native tongue, or you have significant OBS most likely due to a previous TBI or possibly an anoxic event. At any rate, apparently reading comprehension was not your bag in elementary school, so let me parse this in very simple terms so even you, with your incomplete community college education can understand:

In several posts, you state optometric physician and optometric surgeon are terms that are appropriate. The evidence to support this is what some students have embroidered on their scrubs at some school in Florida. I never said you hated calling yourself optometrist, because you're not an optometrist, but I did say "what's wrong with the moniker of optometrist?" Why must everyone emulate physicians? Why do other health care professionals need to be like MDs? My point was, be happy as an optometrist, be unique, and celebrate your uniqueness and specialized skill sets -- don't go around posing as something you're not. I think most optometrists are above the "chiropractic complex" I'm referring to, but there are some, mostly students, like you and Oculomotor, who feel otherwise. Note how no practicing ODs are in agreement with you two, who don't even possess undergraduate degrees yet.


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You can stop pretending now. It's human nature to look out for yourself no matter how hard you are trained to look out for others. I could back it up, and I can relate a personal experience that I had with an MD, but believe me, it will not change my original fact. It will just make you feel more like dense s**t.

You really think you know everything, dont you. Stop making these ridiculous assumptions about me and about what I think. That's all I really have to say.

You seriously think we want to emulate physcians ? I mean thats just ridiculous. I look down at physcians, like you, for the very reason they think everyone looks up to them. You guys are the ones with the "god-like" complexes.


You say, "note how no practicing ODs are in agreement with you two, who don't even possess undergraduate degrees yet." I say that's fine, this let's me know I'm right.
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I don't know how old you are, what community college you're attempting to graduate from, or what your real purpose here is, but I would suggest you consult a physician about your condition. He/she might be able to extricate your empty cranium from your anus.


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Nice. So this is what you were thought during MD school ?
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Wow, such hostility toward opticians. Why is it pathetic that an optician wears a white coat, when it's perfectly acceptable for an optometrist to wear one? Do either of you encounter body fluids? I worked for several years in an inpatient psychiatric unit as an attending. When I did rounds, I sometimes wore a white coat, but rarely. I have been bitten, scratched, punched, and had my testicles twisted so hard I almost passed out, during the course of treating and interviewing patients. The mentally ill can be quite agitated at times, as you well know, but I never wore a white coat. For the life of me, I can't see why either an optician or an optometrist would choose to do so for any purpose other than to feel like a "doctor". I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly, why would any OD need one? Just wear nice and comfortable clothes. I can see why dentists wear them or scrubs, or if you're working in a hospital that requires it (like the VA), but in your own shop? You just make yourself look like a tool.

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I'm just shaking my head at you have written here...give me a moment.

An Optician goes to school for two years, whereas an OD goes to school for 7-9. If a white coat makes the optometric physcian or optometrist look professional in the eyes of customers etc. then why not wear the white coat ? I don't have a problem with Opticians wearing a white coat, I just think its pathetic. It's my opinion.

Really, get over yourself misinformed MD.

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Actually, lab coats started with scientists who used them to protect their clothes and bodies from chemicals and other irritants while conducting experiments. Physicians started to wear them due to direct contact with patients. Blood, saliva, etc., are things to avoid and the white coats would protect clothing. It also became a quasi-uniform for medicine as it was white and clean-looking. I have no problem with any health care worker wearing a lab coat or smock when it's necessary. Nurses, pods, pharmacists, dentists, vets all work with compounds, drugs, elixirs, body fluids, and other nasty stuff and need them for protection. Chiros, PTs, ODs, audiologists, and SLPs do not do anything invasive, do not touch body fluids, and in general, have no reason for a white coat or scrubs.

Note: Try using a semicolon; it is a nice way to separate two unrelated clauses.

Yeah, it also makes you look like a tool. Maybe you think it'll get you laid or something? Do you think it impresses the chics? LOL. Who knows, wear your white coat and maybe some hottie will ask you out thinking you'll give her a discount on prime rib (because she thinks you work at the deli at a grocery store).

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Huh?

That's hilarious. Is that why you attended MD school ?

Then you realized, you were to ugly etc., so you went into law for some reason. But now you realize that everyone hates lawyers. And now you are stuck as an ugly MD and a hated lawyer. Damn, what a waste of money and life really.
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Yeah, I'm just like a kid. I'm not the 20-something working hard to raise his GPA in community college so I can grow up to be an optometric surgeon one day in my own gated community of a mind. How would you know what opticians want? You're not even an optician. You're a student. You have no place to comment on any of this. You're making sweeping generalizations and incorrect inferences about a profession that you know nothing about. If you actually knew what an optometrist did, you would not be here advocating for such drastic reform. If you actually knew what an OD degree prepared you for, you wouldn't be wanting to perform complex ocular surgeries.


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Meh...I don't have to work hard to get a respectable gpa. I just have to attend classes, which I'm doing right now.

It's logic. Opticians are opticians because they don't want to go through additional schooling and/or debt. Plus it takes time and sacrifices and a whole lot of other things, which they aren't ready to give up.

And exactly who are you to comment on the issue of opticians and optometrists. You're neither.

You got problems doc. I never stated that I wanted OD's to be able to "perform complex ocular surgeries." I said minor surgeries.
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Just like a kid, however, you think you know it all and continue to pepper this forum with your pukey pablum insisting you are making rational, educated points. Gochi = FAIL. Not just any fail, but massive FAIL. You are not only misinformed, but obviously intellectually challenged enough to continue spewing your self-serving nonsense and insulting others on here. Stop now and go back to playing Pokemon. When you actually complete a professional degree and obtain a license to practice, then come back and discuss your views with the grown ups rationally and logically.


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Sure I fail, but I always get up. But I mean your the glorified MD, you never fail. Give me a break. And I don't know what you're talking about when your telling me that I have failed. I'm not the one who attended MD school then Law school.

Grown-ups? Again, this is hilarious. Like I said, I don't have to be significantly educated to be correct. You think you're right just because you have earned a degree ? See, you're the one with the complex. Besides, why did you go into Psychiatry ? Were you too stupid to get into other specialties ?

Maybe I will go play pokemon. But atleast I won't be sadistic everyday of my life due to my abominated career.
Now, maybe you may think that your idea's/opinions are more rational then mine, but unless you are an Optometrist and are absolutely certain about your claims, which no one is, then your ideas/opinions are just as rational as mine.

So, let me get this straight, because I don't think optos should perform surgery without earning an MD or DO first, and completing a MEDICAL residency, I'm ugly. Furthermore, because I'm a psychiatrist and lawyer, I'm stupid?

Wow...thank you for that insight, Dr. Gochi. You saw right through me, huh? I applaud your psychodiagnostic acumen. Now, time for Grand Theft Auto

 

[ProZackMI]

See next post

 

[ProZackMI]

For all the idiots who don't think OD's aren't Optometric Physicians, take a look at this.

http://alumni-osu.org/sarasota/images/BusinessCards/Bockhold.jpg

Heck, google Optometric Physicians and the majority of the output websites will be societies, associations of opometric physicians, not optometrists, even though they are effectively the same thing.

Definition:
Optometric physicians are independent primary health care providers who examine, diagnose, treat and manage diseases and disorders of the visual system, the eye and associated structures as well as diagnose related systemic conditions

^This information is from www.eyes.org , or the Optometric Physicians of Washington

Defintion:
Optometrist: A health care professional who is licensed to provide primary eye care services: to examine and diagnose eye diseases such as glaucoma , cataracts , and retinal diseases and, in certain states in the U.S., to treat them; to diagnose related systemic (bodywide) conditions such as hypertension and diabetes that may affect the eyes; to examine, diagnose and treat visual conditions such as nearsightedness , farsightedness , astigmatism and presbyopia ; and to prescribe glasses, contact lenses, low vision rehabilitation and medications as well as perform minor surgical procedures such as the removal of foreign bodies.

^This information is from www.medicinenet.com.

So, now you can see, if you were to lethargic to before, that optometrist=optometric physician.

Now, I could care less about the term physician being associated with my name etc. but it is what it is. I agree with eyestrain, for once, that "an optometrist decided to call himself/herself that", a optometric physician. But you state "you can call yourself whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true." True? Relative to who and to what extent ? And by saying that, you are calling the entire NOVA optometric student body/profs/admins etc. liars.

If the term optometric physician was so irrelevant in the optometric world, then why is it grossly being used ? I'm pretty sure there are OD's/Asmin's etc. such as yourselves who are capable of eliminating the term optometric physician, but why do they not ?
I say optometrist=optometric physician for the same reason that it can't be eliminated from the optometric world, and if it could it would have. So really, I'm not alone in this discussion as some people have said, but again, I could care less.

Gochi, I realize that I'm only a lowly psychiatrist, one of those horrid, evil MDs who constantly belittle and demean a profession that you have yet to enter, but seem to be fixated on, but after reading your nonsensical, illogical, and fallacious posts, I am beginning to think that you are indeed quite serious, which deeply concerns me.

If you're at a school, whether a community college or four-year college/uni, I strongly urge you to make an appt. with a counselor or psychologist. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious. Your posts are borderline and I can see why your grades have not been stellar.

Remember one thing, kid, it's not a title or white coat that will get you respect, it's who you are, how you act, and how well you do your job. I don't care if you're a garbageman, auto mechanic, doctor, optometrist, lawyer, or bouncer at a bar, if you do your job well, treat others with respect and dignity, and are comfortable with yourself, you'll be respected by others and will be well-adjusted.

Don't enter a career thinking it will get you respect. You'll go through life deeply disappointed. I really think you should get an assessment from a professional. Go to your school's counseling center and talk to someone there. If not, every county has a local Community Mental Health (CMH) that offers income-based MH services.

I detest online diagnoses, but I can feel your insecurity; it seeps through the computer like a pungent perfume. I also suspect there is a degree of depression you're dealing with and some learning disabilities. I'm also getting the impression that you might be from a different culture, perhaps foreign-born, and have some cultural issues as well. Some Asian cultures (an inference based on your screen name) push for careers in medicine or health care professions as they confer status. At any rate, you don't need to puff yourself up to feel whole or complete. Also, no matter who is footing the bill for your education, it is YOUR education, not your parents'. Don't let them push you into a career you are not meant to enter or should not enter for a variety of reasons.

Let's stop the name-calling and have a civil discussion. I strongly encourage you to seek professional help. If you need to talk more, PM and I can see about finding local resources for you, or helping you connect with your school's counseling center.

I think you need to sort through some of the things going through your head, get some focus going, and concentrate on academics. I also encourage you to consider a variety of occupations for what they have to offer you -- not because they might give you respect and status in society.

All professions have faults. Why do you think I left medicine? When I started medical school, I thought it would be a dream career as it was in days past when doctors controlled patient-care, not HMOs and heartless insurance companies that are only out for the bottom line. I was sorely mistaken. The health care system is a huge mess bordering on failure for most phyysicians. I escaped when I felt I could financially and have never looked back. Before you decide on a career, make sure it's right for you. I hope you don't end up like me, having completed one professional degree, incurring a huge student loan debt, only to realize that you're unhappy and want something else.

I suspect optometry would not be a good match for you. I don't know what would be, but I honestly don't think health care is a good place for you. Your counseling center will have career counselors and advisers that might help you sort through your abilities and interests to help you prepare for a rewarding career.

Good luck and please get some help at your school's counseling center. If you don't, I believe your problems will get worse and you'll end up dropping/failing out of school. Life can be confusing and college is a hard time for many, especially those who don't have adequate social support systems (e.g., family and friends) to help them deal with the day-to-day crises that plague us all. If you're college age, and I'm guessing you are, this should be the time of your life. Instead of spewing swill on SDN, study your a$$ off, focus on careers you'll enjoy and not regret, go out, meet girls, party, get laid, have fun -- live life. I'm 37 and out of school (for the fourth and final time!) and am JUST NOW starting to make up for my lost youth. I party more than most 21-year-olds now and love it! Have fun and try to enjoy your youth while it lasts, because school, family, student loans, and adult life will settle in soon enough.

Okay, </sappy rant>


Cheers,
Zack S.

 

[hello07]

Well said ProZackMI. You state many good points. Gochi, I am not a psychiatrist, psychologist, psychotherapist or LCSW but the man makes a valid point. Please, get some counseling or professional help. The man with 2 professional degrees is trying to seriously help you. I would like to offer the same advice to a few other OD students but I'll just keep to my self. No need to say anymore. They know who they are and also need some help.

 

[Penguin2012]

to Prozack's post.

 

[gochi]

Gochi, I realize that I'm only a lowly psychiatrist, one of those horrid, evil MDs who constantly belittle and demean a profession that you have yet to enter, but seem to be fixated on, but after reading your nonsensical, illogical, and fallacious posts, I am beginning to think that you are indeed quite serious, which deeply concerns me.

If you're at a school, whether a community college or four-year college/uni, I strongly urge you to make an appt. with a counselor or psychologist. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious. Your posts are borderline and I can see why your grades have not been stellar.

Remember one thing, kid, it's not a title or white coat that will get you respect, it's who you are, how you act, and how well you do your job. I don't care if you're a garbageman, auto mechanic, doctor, optometrist, lawyer, or bouncer at a bar, if you do your job well, treat others with respect and dignity, and are comfortable with yourself, you'll be respected by others and will be well-adjusted.

Don't enter a career thinking it will get you respect. You'll go through life deeply disappointed. I really think you should get an assessment from a professional. Go to your school's counseling center and talk to someone there. If not, every county has a local Community Mental Health (CMH) that offers income-based MH services.

I detest online diagnoses, but I can feel your insecurity; it seeps through the computer like a pungent perfume. I also suspect there is a degree of depression you're dealing with and some learning disabilities. I'm also getting the impression that you might be from a different culture, perhaps foreign-born, and have some cultural issues as well. Some Asian cultures (an inference based on your screen name) push for careers in medicine or health care professions as they confer status. At any rate, you don't need to puff yourself up to feel whole or complete. Also, no matter who is footing the bill for your education, it is YOUR education, not your parents'. Don't let them push you into a career you are not meant to enter or should not enter for a variety of reasons.

Let's stop the name-calling and have a civil discussion. I strongly encourage you to seek professional help. If you need to talk more, PM and I can see about finding local resources for you, or helping you connect with your school's counseling center.

I think you need to sort through some of the things going through your head, get some focus going, and concentrate on academics. I also encourage you to consider a variety of occupations for what they have to offer you -- not because they might give you respect and status in society.

All professions have faults. Why do you think I left medicine? When I started medical school, I thought it would be a dream career as it was in days past when doctors controlled patient-care, not HMOs and heartless insurance companies that are only out for the bottom line. I was sorely mistaken. The health care system is a huge mess bordering on failure for most phyysicians. I escaped when I felt I could financially and have never looked back. Before you decide on a career, make sure it's right for you. I hope you don't end up like me, having completed one professional degree, incurring a huge student loan debt, only to realize that you're unhappy and want something else.

I suspect optometry would not be a good match for you. I don't know what would be, but I honestly don't think health care is a good place for you. Your counseling center will have career counselors and advisers that might help you sort through your abilities and interests to help you prepare for a rewarding career.

Good luck and please get some help at your school's counseling center. If you don't, I believe your problems will get worse and you'll end up dropping/failing out of school. Life can be confusing and college is a hard time for many, especially those who don't have adequate social support systems (e.g., family and friends) to help them deal with the day-to-day crises that plague us all. If you're college age, and I'm guessing you are, this should be the time of your life. Instead of spewing swill on SDN, study your a$$ off, focus on careers you'll enjoy and not regret, go out, meet girls, party, get laid, have fun -- live life. I'm 37 and out of school (for the fourth and final time!) and am JUST NOW starting to make up for my lost youth. I party more than most 21-year-olds now and love it! Have fun and try to enjoy your youth while it lasts, because school, family, student loans, and adult life will settle in soon enough.

Okay, </sappy rant>


Cheers,
Zack S.

That's quite amusing I mean, you finally stoped using profanity. Guess I should step upto the plate.

My post's aren't "nonsensical, illogical, and fallacious posts." So far, I have made one opinion and tried to fortify a fact: OD's should be allowed to do surgery and optometrist=optometric physcian. The prior is what I think can happen, the latter is a fact. I've proven that fact repeatedly. As for the other post's I have made, reffering to other members here, I really had no choice. Some of there posts were nonsensical, illogical, and fallacious so I assumed it would be best to reply with the same idea. You gotta remember the saying, fight fire with fire.

My post's are borderline ? This whole discussion is borderline. People keep on arguing about deviating the inevitable, and when one supports it, there bashed.

What respect are you talking about ? I don't think I ever used that word, or any other words which would imply respect in any of my postings. I'm going into Optometry because I want to; not because some one is forcing me to. I'm not like that. I don't care about getting respect, because at the end of the day, most of the people who give it are irrelevant. BTW, "Treat others the way you want to be treated" is a bunch of BS we were thought in elementary.

I like the profession of Optometry. I don't see myself doing anything else, at this point. And believe me, no "depression" or "learning disability" or a sense of "insecurity" , if I possessed them, which I don't, will stop me from making money while helping people. But at the same time I'll probably be making a few people angry.

You know, most of these assumptions you have made here are drastically incorrect. It's funny how penguin used 4-thumbs up icons to depict her degree of agreement with you. Anyhow, you are right about my name, it is a foreign name; a homonym of Gucci.

I agree though, we should stop the name calling. I don't like it either, and usually I don't initiate it unless I have to. BTW, "pill-counters"/"surgical od's" etc. aren't examples of name calling, there just simplified opinions.

Hmm...you state that I should not go into a profession just because someone forces me to, yet you are telling me that optometry would not be a good match for me.

Don't worry about me doc. I'm good and well, psychologically and physically.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What respect are you talking about ? I don't think I ever used that word, or any other words which would imply respect in any of my postings. I'm going into Optometry because I want to; not because some one is forcing me to. I'm not like that. I don't care about getting respect, because at the end of the day, most of the people who give it are irrelevant. BTW, "Treat others the way you want to be treated" is a bunch of BS we were thought in elementary.

I truly hope you don't believe that. This general idea is, to my mind, at the foundation of the doctor-patient relationship.

 

[gochi]

I truly hope you don't believe that. This general idea is, to my mind, at the foundation of the doctor-patient relationship.

Elaborate.

Anyways, what I meant was that I have not disrespected others for no reason.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Elaborate.

Anyways, what I meant was that I have not disrespected others for no reason.

You seem to believe that the statement "Treat others as you would wish to be treated" is crap, as evidenced by the post that I quoted. I disagree with this on a very basic level.

One of the things we are often taught in school is to treat every patient in the same way that you want your doctors to treat you. I'm not talking specifics here - some folks want a down to business doc, some want a hugging touchy-feely doc, and some want a chatty doc who asks about the grandkids. I don't mean that. I just mean the general respect and actually giving a damn that everyone wants from their physicians. Maybe I'm just idealistic, but that respect and caring should be the foundation of any doctor-patient relationships - especially on a primary care level (like you guys).

I know what you were getting at as it specifically relates to this thread, and I would argue that point as well. Then again, I am an old-fashioned kind of guy who respects my elders (in this case, educationally speaking if not chronologically so).

 

[dpmPOD]

Hmm...you state that I should not go into a profession just because someone forces me to, yet you are telling me that optometry would not be a good match for me.

I would be shocked/terrified if you got into OD school.

 

[gochi]

You seem to believe that the statement "Treat others as you would wish to be treated" is crap, as evidenced by the post that I quoted. I disagree with this on a very basic level.

One of the things we are often taught in school is to treat every patient in the same way that you want your doctors to treat you. I'm not talking specifics here - some folks want a down to business doc, some want a hugging touchy-feely doc, and some want a chatty doc who asks about the grandkids. I don't mean that. I just mean the general respect and actually giving a damn that everyone wants from their physicians. Maybe I'm just idealistic, but that respect and caring should be the foundation of any doctor-patient relationships - especially on a primary care level (like you guys).

I know what you were getting at as it specifically relates to this thread, and I would argue that point as well. Then again, I am an old-fashioned kind of guy who respects my elders (in this case, educationally speaking if not chronologically so).

Yea, I agree with that, but ultimatley treating each other with respect is just an "act." Yes there are docs who genuinely respect the majority of their patients, but those are the very few I think. Not that thats bad or anything. But other's show respect just because they are forced to, i.e. more patients, increased references, they have to etc. and in turn the patients are forced to show respect back. Plus, I don't think the patient, as an example, truly believes that the doc actually respects him/her just because he/she is ill or w/e.

Believe it or not, I do respect my elders, excessively in fact. I respect them not because of what they do but who they are, what human characteristics they present and how they conduct themselves etc, and I'm presuming a doctor's visit will not allow the doc's exposure of these characteristics.

 

[gochi]

I would be shocked/terrified if you got into OD school.

Well, I'm quite shocked that you did not understand what I meant. Aren't you in Podiatric school ?

 

[dpmPOD]

Well, I'm quite shocked that you did not understand what I meant. Aren't you in Podiatric school ?

You just seem to have no idea about the profession you're trying to get involved in. I'm not sure if OD schools interview or not, but they'd probably just laugh at you if you went on about how you want to be an "optometic surgeon" and would point you toward med school.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I would be shocked/terrified if you got into OD school.

By invoking Burnett's Law you hereby fail this thread.

 

[dpmPOD]

By invoking Burnett's Law you hereby fail this thread.

No. I didn't say he'd fail as a doctor; I merely implied that I would never trust my eyes to someone like him--someone who clearly is lacking maturity and direction. I know this is a little "game" that you like to play (as seen in your other posts on the "law"), but you lose this time. -1

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No. I didn't say he'd fail as a doctor; I merely implied that I would never trust my eyes to someone like him--someone who clearly is lacking maturity and direction. I know this is a little "game" that you like to play (as seen in your other posts on the "law"), but you lose this time. -1

Nonsense, it isn't so much failing as a doctor... its more used when one person claims that another shouldn't be a doctor because of their opinions, or when one person pities the patients of another based on those same opinions.

Basically, you can't judge the type of doctor a person will be based on their opinions. I could be the most racist, sexist man imaginable but that won't make me a bad doctor so long as I treat everyone the same. My personal opinions don't matter and its nothing more than a personal insult to suggest otherwise to anyone. Make a real argument with some substance and then we'll talk.

 

[dpmPOD]

Nonsense, it isn't so much failing as a doctor... its more used when one person claims that another shouldn't be a doctor because of their opinions, or when one person pities the patients of another based on those same opinions.

Basically, you can't judge the type of doctor a person will be based on their opinions. I could be the most racist, sexist man imaginable but that won't make me a bad doctor so long as I treat everyone the same. My personal opinions don't matter and its nothing more than a personal insult to suggest otherwise to anyone. Make a real argument with some substance and then we'll talk.

I'm more concerned about his behavior than about his opinions; I could care less about his opinions. The delusional nature of his posts is far more worrisome and is why I personally wouldn't admit him if I was on an admissions committee. Would it not be odd/dangerous for a school to admit someone who is unstable? I hope you don't think you're being clever for citing an imaginary law on SDN by the way.

 

[gochi]

You just seem to have no idea about the profession you're trying to get involved in. I'm not sure if OD schools interview or not, but they'd probably just laugh at you if you went on about how you want to be an "optometic surgeon" and would point you toward med school.

Ok...whatever. If you want to see why you are wrong, please re-read, or read the entire thread.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm more concerned about his behavior than about his opinions; I could care less about his opinions. The delusional nature of his posts is far more worrisome and is why I personally wouldn't admit him if I was on an admissions committee. Would it not be odd/dangerous for a school to admit someone who is unstable? I hope you don't think you're being clever for citing an imaginary law on SDN by the way.

If this is all that it takes for you to deny someone entrance to school, I'm somewhat concerned. The whole point of the law (not clever so much as time saving) is to say that someone's thoughts have no bearing on their ability to practice medicine/optometry/dentistry/whatever. How would you like it if I were to say "You come off as a condescending jackass who has no business taking care of patients"? That's basically the same thing you're saying here just with a different set of descriptions. No one here knows enough to say without a doubt that this guy is unfit to go to OD school, unless they have met him in real life.

As for this being his "behavior".... no. First, all we're seeing are his opinions on the subject. It is quite difficult to determine actual behavior from an internet forum. Second, there is the very real possibility that this is all an act or exaggeration. People behave differently when they have the shield of anonymity. Lastly, you are not only in a different field but you haven't actually started said field (unless DPM school is 5 years) so you have even less place than most of the other people here to comment on OD admissions.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I don't care if it upsets Opthamologists. They don't care about us so screw them.

I respectfully disagree with this assertion. Although it might appear like this is the case because the MDs that dislike optometry are always the most vocal, the fact is optometrists and ophthalmologists make a great team. The most successful eye care practices I've ever been to utilize both forms of doctors because each doctor recognizes their own strengths and interests as well as recognizing the strengths of their colleagues. The result is a full-service practice that works in harmony with itself. It's a win-win situation for the patients and the doctors.

Personally, adding surgery to the OD scope of practice just doesn't seem logical. Let the OMDs focus on surgery and more complex eye diseases because they're damn good at it. Let optometrists focus on optics (no pun intended) and primary eye disease management because they're damn good at it. Like I said before, when doctors recognize their own strengths and the strengths of others and put them into practice everybody wins. Invasion of one-another's strengths leads to conflict which ultimately results one side winning and one side losing. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather make everybody happy instead of making one side overly happy and another side overly sad/disappointed.

 

[cpw]

okay this thread is done. Multiple reported posts. Singling out users and people playing Dr Phil. It's just done on many levels.

I'm pulling the plug.