CRNA vs. AA What's the diff?

[Raydanation]

I see alot of people mentioning CRNA and AA. What's the difference? CRNA must have a masters...when I see AA I think of associates degree, but I'm sure taht's not what it means.

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[deleted6669]

I see alot of people mentioning CRNA and AA. What's the difference? CRNA must have a masters...when I see AA I think of associates degree, but I'm sure taht's not what it means.

nope , AA is also an MS level degree.
crna's are nurses who do 2 yrs of grad schooland practice anesthesia.
AA's are non-nurses(lots of medic, rt's, etc) who do 2 yrs of grad school and practice anesthesia.
places that use both use them interchangeably.
see the AA programs at emory, case western, and south university for examples.
also this site is helpful:
http://www.anesthesiaassistant.com/AnesthesiologistAssistantEducation.html

 

[jwk]

I see alot of people mentioning CRNA and AA. What's the difference? CRNA must have a masters...when I see AA I think of associates degree, but I'm sure taht's not what it means.

An AA is an anesthesiologist assistant, similar to a PA, a physician assistant. You're thinking Associate of Arts.

 

[jacketwrestler]

 

[foreverLaur]

http://www.anesthesiaprogram.com/

http://www3.uakron.edu/nursing/Academic/anesthesia.htm

 

[MrJosh9788]

do you need work experience for the AA as you do for the CRNA?

 

[foreverLaur]

do you need work experience for the AA as you do for the CRNA?

No. That is why some people find the AA profession more appealing than the CRNA profession.

AA requires a year of: biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, anatomy, physiology, calculus, English and a semester of biochem and the MCAT and an undergraduate degree. You can then enter straight into a masters program.

CRNA requires you to work 2 years in critical care as an RN first.

Depending on where you are in life and what your long term goals are, each has its own pluses and minuses.

I personally wasn't sure what I wanted to do right away so I haven't taken all those science prerequisites. If I were to ever take them and the MCAT, I'd just go to medical school personally. I am going to graduate with a degree in psychology, enter an 11 month accelerated BSN program, and then work for 2 years while gaining experience, paying off undergraduate loans, and hopefully making some money to pay for my MSN program.

I also like the nursing option because if I ever decide I no longer want to work in anesthesia, I can do a post masters program and then work as a nurse practitioner or still use my RN license. If all you have is a Masters in AA, you are sorta stuck unless you do a whole different program, although I suppose you could always go to medical school. I'd also assume someone who take all those classes would have a science degree and could enter a Ph.D program or something.

So, in my opinion, it all depends on where you are in life and what your long terms goals are as to which program is better for you. For me, i think the CRNA program sounds much better.

Not to mention the fact that a CRNA can work under any doctor, legally, and can practice in all 50 states. An AA can only work under an Anesthesiologist MD/DO and is currently only legal to practice in a few states although that will obviously change.

 

[deleted6669]

do you need work experience for the AA as you do for the CRNA?

recommended but not required although lots of aa's are former rt's and medics.

 

[RAMPA]

recommended but not required although lots of aa's are former rt's and medics.

agree. experience will make you more competitive, just as long as your GPA isnt crappy.

look at Nova's class on their website.
of the AA students 2 are PAs, 2 are RTs, one is a ACNP, one is a PT. others are also former CNAs, EMTBs, and pharmacy techs.

the prior experience should help out with the learning curve.

 

[foreverLaur]

agree. experience will make you more competitive, just as long as your GPA isnt crappy.

look at Nova's class on their website.
of the AA students 2 are PAs, 2 are RTs, one is a ACNP, one is a PT. others are also former CNAs, EMTBs, and pharmacy techs.

the prior experience should help out with the learning curve.

ACNP as in Acute Care Nurse Practitioner?! That doesn't make much sense - why not go the CRNA route? I doubt the NP had all those prior science courses.

 

[deleted6669]

ACNP as in Acute Care Nurse Practitioner?! That doesn't make much sense - why not go the CRNA route? I doubt the NP had all those prior science courses.

maybe they really want to work at a place that uses AA's and no crna's.....

 

[RT2MD]

CRNA requires you to work 2 years in critical care as an RN first.

foreverLaur,
Saw this bit of information on two of your posts, just wanted to let you know that it is actually one year of critical care:
(From the AANA: Requirements)

As for the AA experience bit... well... I think that a lot of CRNAs think that AAs are worse anesthesia providers because the don't have to have any clinical nursing education... I believe that I have heard one member on this board say something to the effect of "How can somebody be a good anesthesia provider if they don't even know what a foley catheter is before starting their program". This came from a person claiming to be a resident, although having familial ties to the CRNA profession.

While I don't agree with the entirety of that members post, I do think that having a bit of experience can't hurt! I'm an RT and have been working for a couple of years in critical care and feel that my experience will help me for going to AA school. I guess my point is that I agree with the previous statement of experience isn't required... but it couldn't hurt!

Best of luck to all!

-RT2MD (RT2AA?)

 

[foreverLaur]

Weird. The school must have given me incorrect information when I called.

 

[RT2MD]

Weird. The school must have given me incorrect information when I called.

No prob! Just wanted to let you know. The caveat is that most RNs that I know that go on to CRNA school have more than one year. I think that this is mostly because of the high demand for CRNAs, they end up taking RNs that have more experience (Sort of like the minimum gpa is 2.5... but the average might be 3.75)... just for what it's worth!

Good luck in your endeavors!

 

[Doc Oct]

I'm not trying to pick on you foreverLaur, but it's also not true that you have to take the MCAT to become an AA. Only two out of the five schools require it.

 

[foreverLaur]

I'm not trying to pick on you foreverLaur, but it's also not true that you have to take the MCAT to become an AA. Only two out of the five schools require it.

Like I said.. or meant to say... that I am basing my information on the only program I am aware of - Case Western/University Hospitals. They require the MCAT. Do the other schools just require the GRE General Test? Do they recommend the MCAT? I guess the Case Western program must be more challenging to get into in terms of required prerequisites.

 

[Doc Oct]

Like I said.. or meant to say... that I am basing my information on the only program I am aware of - Case Western/University Hospitals. They require the MCAT. Do the other schools just require the GRE General Test? Do they recommend the MCAT? I guess the Case Western program must be more challenging to get into in terms of required prerequisites.

From what I remember the breakdown is like this:
Case: MCAT
Emory: GRE or MCAT
South: GRE
Nova: GRE
UMKC: MCAT

I agree that Case is probably the most challenging to get into in terms of prereqs. I think Nova is probably the hardest in terms of acceptance rate though.

 

[vpgraham]

As for the AA experience bit... well... I think that a lot of CRNAs think that AAs are worse anesthesia providers because the don't have to have any clinical nursing education... I believe that I have heard one member on this board say something to the effect of "How can somebody be a good anesthesia provider if they don't even know what a foley catheter is before starting their program". This came from a person claiming to be a resident, although having familial ties to the CRNA profession.

While I don't agree with the entirety of that members post, I do think that having a bit of experience can't hurt! I'm an RT and have been working for a couple of years in critical care and feel that my experience will help me for going to AA school. I guess my point is that I agree with the previous statement of experience isn't required... but it couldn't hurt!

Best of luck to all!

-RT2MD (RT2AA?)

I have seen AA's who have never worked in critical care setting but has some type of healthcare experience, nevertheless. They are doing well in their practice.

The other reason that many CRNA's look down on AA's is that AA's are not allowed to practice independently. So what?

You could be practicing independently, but if you're complication rate is high, then how is that better than supervised practice? The safety record of all anesthetists really is one of the important issues here.


http://members.boardhost.com/Anesthesia/
http://members.boardhost.com/Anesthesia/

 

[RT2MD]

I have seen AA's who have never worked in critical care setting but has some type of healthcare experience, nevertheless. They are doing well in their practice.

The other reason that many CRNA's look down on AA's is that AA's are not allowed to practice independently. So what?

You could be practicing independently, but if you're complication rate is high, then how is that better than supervised practice? The safety record of all anesthetists really is one of the important issues here.


http://members.boardhost.com/Anesthesia/
http://members.boardhost.com/Anesthesia/

Agreed.

 

[foreverLaur]

Personally, I think a lot of the "experience" arguments are pretty over-rated. You would have the benefit of understanding vents pretty well, which would be a benefit, but most RNs with med/surg or clinic experience really won't have much of a leg to stand on when they go to AA or CRNA.

"All applicants must have at least one year of recent experience in one of the following acute care settings: recovery room, emergency room, or medical, surgical, neonatal, or pediatric intensive care." (Case Western Reserve University)

So, med/surg nursing and such won't qualify as the required experience for a CRNA program. This is even lenient from what I have seen. They have to have critical care RN experience. Another CRNA program states:

"A minimum of one year of current critical care experience. Current experience is defined as one consecutive year of critical care nursing. The following does not constitute critical care experience for admission to The University of Akron: operating room, labor and delivery, step down telemetry units, neonatal intensive care, emergency room, pediatric intensive care, post anesthesia care units and cardiac catheterization labs."

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

I believe that I have heard one member on this board say something to the effect of "How can somebody be a good anesthesia provider if they don't even know what a foley catheter is before starting their program". This came from a person claiming to be a resident, although having familial ties to the CRNA profession.
-RT2MD (RT2AA?)

How does the ability to put a foley in translate into providing mid-level anesthesia? Funny stuff...unless I am completely missing something.

BTW, I doubt I'll be able to make the UMKC 2nd class. Had to debate between buying a house or paying for the program.

 

[foreverLaur]

Interesting, didn't know that. Though I still wonder how applicable even CCRN work is to passing gas.

Well they do a lot more than just knock people out before surgery and wake them up after. My friend is a CRNA and she described her duties as:

" love being a CRNA, but you have to do what you feel is for you. I always watch the entire surgery, and would venture to say that it is the responsibility of the anesthesia provider to do so. My role is to keep the patient stable, determine what treatments they need during surgery (blood transfusions, pain management, etc.) and do those things. I also do a lot of nerve blocks, epidurals, spinals, central and arterial line placements, etc."

 

[foreverLaur]

The bolded section is terrifyingly irresponsible.

It isn't like she isn't also carefully observing the stats of the patient. All the CRNAs I have seen while observing surgeries have also observed a large portion of the surgery. She's currently at a large university teaching hospital and they require the CRNAs to observe the surgery - they can't just chill out behind the blue drape.

 

[jwk]

Unless she has someone else watching the monitors with her, closely observing "a large portion of the surgery" is a really bad idea. Which side of the blue drape does she stand on? Lord . . .

Clueless - what kind of resident are you?

The anesthesia provider doesn't watch 100% of the surgery literally. But they damn sure better be paying attention to the operation itself and to what's going on. ForeverLaur is still in college and understands that much.

 

[jwk]

Ortho.

So how do your anesthesiologists watch the entire operation? Do they peer over the drape? Stand on the surgical side and watch? Cut a hole?

It's one thing to periodically ask, "How much longer?" It's quite another to say that the anes people should watch the entire case. It is the surgeon's responsibility to inform anesthesia of any intraoperative complications that occur. It is not the anesthesiologist's job to follow the case on their own; they have enough to do on their side.

Spoken like a true arrogant surgeon - you clearly have no concept of what anesthesia does on their side of the screen. I can't begin to tell you how many surgeons we've bailed out, PARTICULARLY orthopedic docs. I had a cardiac arrest on a bipolar hip (that should never have been done to begin with) and the surgeon wanted to finish hammering in the implant before we turned the patient flat and started CPR.

We are ALWAYS paying attention to what's going on with the surgery. To do otherwise would be malpractice.

 

[foreverLaur]

Spoken like a true arrogant surgeon - you clearly have no concept of what anesthesia does on their side of the screen. I can't begin to tell you how many surgeons we've baled out, PARTICULARLY orthopedic docs. I had a cardiac arrest on a bipolar hip (that should never have been done to begin with) and the surgeon wanted to finish hammering in the implant before we turned the patient flat and started CPR.

We are ALWAYS paying attention to what's going on with the surgery. To do otherwise would be malpractice.

thank you

 

[FutureDMD1234]

Sorry for intruding. I'm bored. I have a question, because I don't understand this situation. Why are there AA's and CRNA's since they have the same job function? I understand that they come from different backgrounds. Why shouldn't there be an AA practicing? Why nurses feel that it is necessary to practice as a CRNA? They met the requirement to become an AA. It isn't necessary to have NP and PA also.

 

[foreverLaur]

sorry for coming here, i'm bored. i got a question. i don't understand this. Why is there AA and CRNA and they do the same thing? i understand they come from different backgrounds but why don't there be just AA. a nurse can be an AA. why it has to be a nurse practicing separately as a midlevel provider. just like PA and NP. it just doesn't make sense to have two different field doing the same thing. if you are offended by this as a nurse, don't be. i support their work as far being a midlevel provider but why come out with a NP program and PA already exist.

first off.. your grammar makes me

second off... a PA is taught on the medical model (typically doing 1 year of coursework similar to a year of medical school and then 1 year of clinical rotations similar to those done in the third year of medical school). PAs are found a lot in surgery and other hospital based positions.

an NP is taught on the nursing model and is found more commonly in primary care situations such as pediatric and family practice offices.

at least that is where i have seen them most often. however, NPs and PAs can all work pretty much anywhere. i typically do not see any NPs in surgery, however, unless they are also an RNFA.

another difference between PA and NP is that a PA does not specialize. he or she can work in ER and then one day decide to go work in ortho surgery and then work in CT surgery and then hop over to a dermatology office. a PA also has the option of doing a PA residency to increase chances of being accepted into a specialty straight out of school where experience is valuable, such as surgery. an NP specializes in school and would have to return to school to change specialties (typically about a year).

currently, AAs can only practice in a few states where CRNAs can practice nationwide. there are some who complain about the AA profession because they are not required to have any previous experience before entering school, where a CRNA program requires one year or critical care experience (this typically means ICU and generally does NOT include ER, step down units, PACU, NICU, and PICU). There are others who think the experience is unnecessary. in the end, it doesn't really matter which route you go - do whichever one works best for you. for someone with a nursing background, CRNA is clearly the better route because they probably have not taken all the premedical requirements that are prerequisites to an AA program and have not taken the MCAT. vice versa, for someone without a nursing background, the AA route is clearly better. the two options allow the profession to reach a larger number of people, which is needed with all the shortages.

 

[fab4fan]

sorry for coming here, i'm bored. i got a question. i don't understand this. Why is there AA and CRNA and they do the same thing? i understand they come from different backgrounds but why don't there be just AA. a nurse can be an AA. why it has to be a nurse practicing separately as a midlevel provider. just like PA and NP. it just doesn't make sense to have two different field doing the same thing. if you are offended by this as a nurse, don't be. i support their work as far being a midlevel provider but why come out with a NP program and PA already exist.

It looks like you're doing your part to celebrate the New Year.

 

[FutureDMD1234]

first off.. your grammar makes me

second off... a PA is taught on the medical model (typically doing 1 year of coursework similar to a year of medical school and then 1 year of clinical rotations similar to those done in the third year of medical school). PAs are found a lot in surgery and other hospital based positions.

an NP is taught on the nursing model and is found more commonly in primary care situations such as pediatric and family practice offices.

at least that is where i have seen them most often. however, NPs and PAs can all work pretty much anywhere. i typically do not see any NPs in surgery, however, unless they are also an RNFA.

another difference between PA and NP is that a PA does not specialize. he or she can work in ER and then one day decide to go work in ortho surgery and then work in CT surgery and then hop over to a dermatology office. a PA also has the option of doing a PA residency to increase chances of being accepted into a specialty straight out of school where experience is valuable, such as surgery. an NP specializes in school and would have to return to school to change specialties (typically about a year).

currently, AAs can only practice in a few states where CRNAs can practice nationwide. there are some who complain about the AA profession because they are not required to have any previous experience before entering school, where a CRNA program requires one year or critical care experience (this typically means ICU and generally does NOT include ER, step down units, PACU, NICU, and PICU). There are others who think the experience is unnecessary. in the end, it doesn't really matter which route you go - do whichever one works best for you. for someone with a nursing background, CRNA is clearly the better route because they probably have not taken all the premedical requirements that are prerequisites to an AA program and have not taken the MCAT. vice versa, for someone without a nursing background, the AA route is clearly better. the two options allow the profession to reach a larger number of people, which is needed with all the shortages.

i didn't read over the message. that's why. why can't you get experience from NICU and PICU? I know it's pediatric but I thought they were more difficult to handle than general care.

 

[foreverLaur]

i didn't read over the message. that's why. why can't you get experience from NICU and PICU? I know it's pediatric but I thought they were more difficult to handle than general care.

It wasn't that there were typos - it was more so just poor knowledge of grammar... unless of course you were trying to look uneducated on purpose.

I don't make the rules for experience, I just read them.

Note the University of Akron's webpage: http://www3.uakron.edu/nursing/Academic/anesthesia.htm

"A minimum of one year of current critical care experience. Current experience is defined as one consecutive year of critical care nursing. The following does not constitute critical care experience for admission to The University of Akron: operating room, labor and delivery, step down telemetry units, neonatal intensive care, emergency room, pediatric intensive care, post anesthesia care units and cardiac catheterization labs."

 

[jwk]

Is this a joke? It's your job to watch the monitors, not the implant. Thank goodness you didn't take your own advice, or the patient might have been in arrest for minutes while you were staring at the implant on the wrong side of the drape.

And also, to point out the obvious: You (or the MDs you work for) do the preop screening. If the patient's cardiac status made the surgery too risky (ie - "should never have been done to begin with"), it was on you to shut the case down before it started.

Again - you're truly clueless - and not worth the effort to explain it to you.

 

[foreverLaur]

Is this a joke? It's your job to watch the monitors, not the implant. Thank goodness you didn't take your own advice, or the patient might have been in arrest for minutes while you were staring at the implant on the wrong side of the drape.

And also, to point out the obvious: You (or the MDs you work for) do the preop screening. If the patient's cardiac status made the surgery too risky (ie - "should never have been done to begin with"), it was on you to shut the case down before it started.

Do you seriously think the anesthesia provider sits behind the blue drape and does nothing but stare at the machine for 6 hours? I mean obviously they should never stare at anything but the machine during the entire surgery as they could kill a patient by looking away to glance at a clock.

The anesthesia provider is well trained in what him or her is doing. There is more to the job than staring at the machines.

 

[foreverLaur]

So I just realized that you're a college softmore who decided like two weeks ago that you want to be a nurse.

How many cases have you observed?

On one note, I have 164 quarter hours, making me a senior.

On a second note, I am an LPN (did it during PSEOP type thing - had my license when I graduated high school).

Thirdly, I was pursuing medicine until "two weeks ago" when I decided (after lots of shadowing and research) that pursuing the NP/PA route better fit my goals and wants.

Fourthly, I have spent 22 days observing in the OR. Some shadowing the surgeon/PA (mostly orthopaedic) and some shadowing the CRNA. I have done my shadowing at OSU East, Akron General, and the Cleveland Clinic.

Fifthly, what college educated person doesn't know how to spell sophomore?

Finally, I think that someone who is a veteran in the anesthesia profession better understands the requirements, duties, and how to best perform them better than a surgical intern. You have spent how many weeks on an anesthesia rotation vs the AA who has a degree in the field and has been practicing for years?

 

[foreverLaur]

Wait, you're an AA and a veteran in the anesthesia profession now?

Oh, I get it, you heard from someone how things are.

Have you ever stepped foot inside an operating room?

I was talking about another member, 'jwk' in terms of being a veteran in the anesthesia profession.

And it is quite easy to shadow in the OR. I just call the residency directory and they give me a list of dates and doctors and I let them know when/who I'd like to shadow.

For example, at OSU East I paged the resident when I arrived, he let me in the physicians entrance, and I followed him and the surgeon around every day for two weeks during my summer break. I obviously had to sign a bunch of stuff to do with HIPAA first, but that was about it. They told me where to stand and not to touch anything blue and were nice about making sure I could see.

 

[fab4fan]

I am a junior in college

But wait...

On one note, I have 164 quarter hours, making me a senior.

These posts came within days of each other. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this discrepancy.

Three weeks of observation is bupkis. It might have made you decide that your interests lie in anesthesia, but it doesn't make you capable of giving informed opinions on the subject. Calling and talking to people and repeating information you have gleaned from websites does not equal clinical expertise. You are just parroting what you have read or heard from others.

As I said before, you seem to be a very intelligent and motivated individual, and I don't doubt that one day you will do quite well in whatever field you decide to pursue. (P.S.-If you're going to be a CRNA, why are you identifying yourself as a "Pre-Med?" Why did you change your status from "Health Student?") But you lose credibility when you have no real experience to back up what you say--just "what I've read" or "the schools I've called." Yeah, big deal. Anybody can pick up a phone or click on a link.

If you are going to argue with people who have done the time and have the experience (and I am not referring to myself here, but the others you seem to be arguing with) don't be surprised if people call you on your inaccuracies/inconsistencies. God help you if you decide to do this with a doc when you're a nursing student or a new nurse.

They let you in "The Physicians' Entrance?" Wow...

 

[foreverLaur]

But wait...



These posts came within days of each other. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this discrepancy.

Three weeks of observation is bupkis. It might have made you decide that your interests lie in anesthesia, but it doesn't make you capable of giving informed opinions on the subject. Calling and talking to people and repeating information you have gleaned from websites does not equal clinical expertise. You are just parroting what you have read or heard from others.

As I said before, you seem to be a very intelligent and motivated individual, and I don't doubt that one day you will do quite well in whatever field you decide to pursue. (P.S.-If you're going to be a CRNA, why are you identifying yourself as a "Pre-Med?" Why did you change your status from "Health Student?") But you lose credibility when you have no real experience to back up what you say--just "what I've read" or "the schools I've called." Yeah, big deal. Anybody can pick up a phone or click on a link.

If you are going to argue with people who have done the time and have the experience (and I am not referring to myself here, but the others you seem to be arguing with) don't be surprised if people call you on your inaccuracies/inconsistencies. God help you if you decide to do this with a doc when you're a nursing student or a new nurse.

They let you in "The Physicians' Entrance?" Wow...

I am in my third year of college since I graduated high school, making me a junior. However, by credit hours, I am a senior. It depends on how you want to look at it. If you count the total number of years I have been enrolled as a college student (counting while in high school) this is my fifth year. So, describe me however you would like.

I have never once claimed to be an expert or pretended to have more experience/knowledge than I do. However, thinking that an anesthesia provider needs to spend 6 hours doing nothing but consistently staring at his/her machines is just silly. That person was, in a way, calling my friend that is a CRNA a poor anesthesia provider. She was taught in school that it is the duty of the anesthesia provider to watch the surgery (which can be done in conjunction with monitor the machines) is the proper and best thing to do. That is also the way the doctors she works under at a major university hospital want it done. Just because the surgical intern disagrees does that mean that is law and anyone who does anything but watch the machines is a poor anesthesia provider.

Letting me in the physician's entrance was just a matter of ease. Easier than having the resident leave the surgical wing and wandering to another part of the hospital to guide me to where I needed to be from the public entrance.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Again, as stated in other threads, please address the topic of the thread/forum and not the other posters. I am growing weary of these pissing matches.

 

[foreverLaur]

Again, as stated in other threads, please address the topic of the thread/forum and not the other posters. I am growing weary of these pissing matches.

I think it is silly that a poster is forced to list of credentials and experience in order to gain any credibility. I have never stated anything that is not true without first stating that it was my opinion. My opinion is allowed to differ from others and I shouldn't be called out for it. Completely ridiculous. You can feel free to disagree, but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think it is silly that a poster is forced to list of credentials and experience in order to gain any credibility. I have never stated anything that is not true without first stating that it was my opinion. My opinion is allowed to differ from others and I shouldn't be called out for it. Completely ridiculous. You can feel free to disagree, but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

In my experience, credibility is earned and not automatically conveyed. I wouldn't come in here and presume to tell a mid-level practitioner how to make the transition to a doctoral level health career because I don't know anything about that.

What I do know something about is getting along with people in general. It's an important skill. Fighting on the internet never earned anyone credibility.

I'm sorry you feel you aren't having a good experience at SDN. Perhaps the solution might be to try what I tried when I first joined: less talking and more listening/learning from those around me. It's worked very well for me so far. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

 

[foreverLaur]

In my experience, credibility is earned and not automatically conveyed. I wouldn't come in here and presume to tell a mid-level practitioner how to make the transition to a doctoral level health career because I don't know anything about that.

What I do know something about is getting along with people in general. It's an important skill. Fighting on the internet never earned anyone credibility.

I'm sorry you feel you aren't having a good experience at SDN. Perhaps the solution might be to try what I tried when I first joined: less talking and more listening/learning from those around me. It's worked very well for me so far. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

If you (or anyone) can find a post I made that I either didn't state as my opinion that is completely false and I can't credibly back up, then we'll talk.

I have a job here at school as an undergraduate business advisor. I'm not a business major. However, I did the research to gain all the knowledge that one would need to know to advise students on the coursework to take for various reasons and was able to easily pass the exam the school administers before someone is allowed to be an academic advisor. Just because you didn't personally go through the process doesn't mean you can't be knowledgeable about how to do it.

I see no harm in quoting something from a friend who has been working in a certain profession. I never said it was my experiences or my thoughts, but she provided a valuable viewpoint and saw no harm in sharing that with the SDN community.

 

[fab4fan]

Not only do you not get it, you don't want to get it. Both of these traits are terrifying, and neither will serve you nor your patients well.

You got good and patient advice from All4MyDaughter and from other senior members here. What a pity that for a smart girl you let your pride stand in the way of listening to their sound advice.

 

[rn29306]

Amazing that you require a surgical intern to tell you your job responsibilities.

I can assure you that jwk doesn't need a surgical intern to tell him how to do his job and neither do I.

I too watch alot of the surgical procedure and for various reasons. Interest in the case and getting a heads up on upcoming / potential problems are the main two. Do you really think surgeons announce when he or she is going to unclamp vessels that have been without blood supply? I could go on and on here, trust me. Anesthesia providers tend to grow very familiar with the sounds of their systems, monitors, and the sounds of the OR, even before graduating school. Do I need to explain that the rate from a pulse ox comes from the HR in a minute or the tone comes from the actual percent pulse ox? Any half trained anesthesia provider can tell you the patient's HR and pulse ox +/- 1 number without even looking at the monitor. Good providers can tell how much blood you are losing just by the sound of your suction and don't think that you have to announce the fact that you just hit a bleeder.....Everyone is already acutely aware of it. That often mundane 'whoosh' of the venilator tells me the circuit is intact and that my desired tidal volume is being delivered. My point is that I do not have to be looking at the monitor every minute of every case to be very well aware of what is going on during the case.

A surgical intern might be good for an emergent trach and that's about it. But you guys don't have a clue about anesthetic management.

Don't even get me started on ortho. Of all the specialties that like to dump on others, you guys are the worst. Last week I had a surgeon try to blame me for not drawing coags ON HIS PATIENT and saying we were providing substandard care by not drawing knee-jerk panels of blood work on all patients. This is the same tool that states he wants 0 out of 4 twitches for the duration of his case and not twenty minutes later tell the circulator to call for his next case. Speaking of knee-jerk, all orthopods care about is ancef 10-60 minutes prior to cutting, norcuron, and jacking your ipod all the way to maximum.

 

[foreverLaur]

Hmph. Looks like I was right about the anesthesia profession after all.

 

[rn29306]

You get the respect you earn. Based on what you've posted here, it doesn't suprise me one bit that you get dumped on and yelled at.

Same to you.

And the arguement about coags was shortly settled after I showed him his operative checklist and all he had to do was check what he wanted. The labs section was blank. Thats what you get when a surgeon lets residents work up a patient in the clinic and then the surgeon sees the patient for 45 seconds.

You guys blame others for just about everything. You don't even manage your patients post op for the most part, even for simple items such as diabetic control.

Why are you even on a clinician's forum anyways? 3K+ posts? Get a life dude.

 

[Farmer Jane]

"You guys"? "Get a life" Honestly, posts like these do not help reduce the animosity.

I would love--LOVE!!!--to come on here and respond to negative posts about nurses and say that they were 100% wrong. I would love to do that, but I refuse to be dishonest. When a nurse--at whatever level--acts with venom, gets on a highhorse, generalizes, etc, it affects the perception that other healthcare professionals have of all of us. Frankly, I don't appreciate it.

 

[fab4fan]

"You guys"? "Get a life" Honestly, posts like these do not help reduce the animosity.

I would love--LOVE!!!--to come on here and respond to negative posts about nurses and say that they were 100% wrong. I would love to do that, but I refuse to be dishonest. When a nurse--at whatever level--acts with venom, gets on a highhorse, generalizes, etc, it affects the perception that other healthcare professionals have of all of us. Frankly, I don't appreciate it.

What Jane said.

 

[timerick]

I think of the anaesthesia provider as being the patient's best friend throughout the surgery. Of course they will watch the surgery!!! From what I have seen, the anaesthetist will be increasing and decreasing various levels of pain relievers and such as the surgery goes through different phases, light work, highly stimulating work, etc. They will want to be well aware of the progress of the surgery, too, so they can time their anaesthetics well. Quite a job! Having a high-quality anaesthesia provider is as important as having a high-quality surgeon.

 

[BlackSails]

Same to you.

Tired is well respected, if occasionally inflammatory.


I think the argument here stems from different definitions of the word watch.

 

[jwk]

Tired is well respected, if occasionally inflammatory.


I think the argument here stems from different definitions of the word watch.

Well respected by whom?