CSU sees dramatic decrease in clients

[WannaFixFounder]

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CSU has continued to raise their rates and provide mediocre client services, and sub-standard care in several lacking departments (IMO). Until recently, there were 2 options for large animal owners seeking advanced diagnostics and surgery: CSU or Littleton Large Animal Hospital over 2 hours away. In colic and severe lameness situations, of course you go to the closest hospital. Recently, a private large animal clinic offering surgical and advanced care opened within 1/2 hour of CSU. Since then, case loads at CSU have dropped dramatically. CSU vet school students have been leaving mid-day for months due to the light case load (and hence nothing to learn from).

The new surgery clinic is reportably also very successful.

Just a heads up to anyone considering or attending CSU. Lots of turnmoil there recently and lots of unhappy students.

http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080519/UPDATES01/80519018

State, CSU pouring $2M into vet hospital to avoid layoffs

BY TREVOR HUGHES • [email protected] • May 19, 2008

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A $1 million infusion from state taxpayers is helping the veterinary hospital at Colorado State University avoid layoffs as pet and livestock owners cut back on medical care for their animals.

The infusion came in the same month in which the top two administrators at the James L. Voss Veterinary Teaching Hospital stepped down. CSU has also given the hospital an extra $1 million.
Hospital director Dan Smeak and hospital administrator Chris Grippo both quit on Wednesday. Smeak, recruited from Ohio State just last August, said he wanted to return to surgery and teaching. Smeak brought Grippo with him from Ohio State.

CSU officials say the departures of Grippo and Smeak were voluntary. But they come as CSU and state taxpayers are pouring a sudden $2 million into the vet hospital.

In an e-mail sent earlier this month, the dean of the veterinary school said the infusion of cash would help prevent layoffs. Lance Perryman, Dean of the College of Veterinary Medicine and Bio-medical Sciences, said some vacant positions will remain frozen.

Perryman said the $1 million from the state was being matched with an additional $1 million from his office.

"While we greatly appreciate the $1 million in new base (state) support, the additional matching funds are essential to prevent personnel layoffs that would have been required to achieve a balanced hospital budget during the current economic downturn," Perryman wrote. "I am pleased that matching funds from the university and the dean's office should enable us to avoid personnel layoffs in the VTH for economic reasons."

The hospital has been raising its rates over the past few years, officials said, but pet owners without insurance often find it hard to pay for animal care, especially if they are already struggling to pay their own bills.

See www.coloradoan.com for updates.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

PS As a local taxpayer, I wish they would have not tripled the capacity at the Equine Orthopedic Research center with fancy barns, or halted the massive construction of the diagnostic imagining lab rather than use $1 million taxpayer dollars to patch a hole. If CSU doesn't improve their client services, they'll be in the same situation when this million runs out.

 

[ri23]

It seems like you have been posting a lot of negative things about CSU. Where do you get from that article that there are a lot of unhappy students? CSU provides an excellent education and has leaders in vet med from many different fields. The fact that they are having economic problems is really not a reflection on the school, as much as it is on the economy as a whole. I can't help but think that some of this negativity stems from the fact that you didn't get in, being that you applied to this school the last app cycle.

 

[loo]

CSU provides an excellent education and has leaders in vet med from many different fields. The fact that they are having economic problems is really not a reflection on the school, as much as it is on the economy as a whole.

Definitely agree! Most vet schools (with a couple of exceptions) are institutions that rely on state funds/grants, student tuition, and donations to keep afloat. There are some schools whose research departments bring in money or have some solid backing from pharmaceutical/nutritional/agricultural companies, but many do not.

It is also important to note that it is very expensive to update facilities using today's dollars. They're dealing with many of the same issues graduates face, namely clients who can't or won't pay for care.

The only "issue" I read was about an administrator who didn't want to administrate; but rather teach instead. Seems sensible for him to admit this, move on, and let someone else (with stronger administrative skills) take over.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

The only "issue" I read was about an administrator who didn't want to administrate; but rather teach instead. Seems sensible for him to admit this, move on, and let someone else (with stronger administrative skills) take over.

Haven't they had 4 in 2 years? Isn't that a lot?

I lived and worked in the area and learned a lot. I know a plenty of students there. And beleive me, the recent turn of events were much more than simply wanting to get back to teaching.
-----------------------------------------------------------

 

[laurafinn]

I understand you're angry at these vets for the treatment of your horses, but these things are best taken up with the vets directly, not vented in a public forum. Plus, your comments come across as sour grapes.

The people you're slamming will be your colleagues, and vet medicine can be a very small world. It is not wise to alienate people so early in your career.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

I find the sort of arrogant unprofessional behavior described in this article a classic example of what I have seen as a client numerous times at CSU.

They don't want to do lay-offs because their AVMA visit is this year. Again, as a taxpayer, I think that's a crappy reason to spend my tax dollars. There is a reason fewer people are going there.

http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080520/NEWS01/805200331


Departures come amid budget struggles at CSU vet hospital

BY TREVOR HUGHES • [email protected] • May 20, 2008

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The top two administrators at Colorado State University's veterinary hospital quit under pressure last week as the facility struggles to overcome a $2 million shortfall.

Dan Smeak, hospital director, and Chris Grippo, hospital administrator, quit the James L. Voss Veterinary Teaching Hospital on Wednesday.
Both say they left to protest the way CSU administrators are handling the hospital's finances, including a $1 million state bailout.
"Are Dan and I faultless? Of course not. I wish we had taken certain actions sooner. But the reason we resigned was that we couldn't work with that administration," Grippo said Monday. The $1 million state payment, along with $1 million from the university's central budget, has allowed the nationally known hospital to avoid layoffs.
Forced out?

CSU said both men left voluntarily.
Smeak said he quit after losing support of university administrators. Grippo said he left because those same administrators showed a "blatant disregard" for how the hospital was supposed to spend the $1 million state payment.
Lance Perryman, dean of the College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences has repeatedly declined requests for comment.
On Monday, CSU executive vice president Tony Frank attributed the hospital's financial troubles to fewer customers seeking animal care and to a policy that diverted some state funding from the hospital into CSU's general fund. He declined to comment on the specifics of Smeak and Grippo's departure.
But when contacted Monday in Finland, Smeak said he was effectively pushed out.
"When I met with (Perryman) on Tuesday, he said, 'Dan, you're done.' I wasn't forced. But what can I do? If the dean says your power is over..."
Budget woes

Smeak joined the hospital in August 2007 and recruited Grippo from the Air Force to join him in October 2007.
Both men were new to CSU, and Smeak had little prior administrative experience.
Right away, Grippo, said, he and Smeak noticed that the approximately $130 million budget for the vet hospital failed to account for routine expenses that Grippo said ought to have been caught by Perryman's office months before both men arrived. Both said revenues were about $800,000 short, with a pending shortfall of about $1.5 million.
According to CSU officials, the hospital faces a $1.3 million revenue shortfall on a $12.8 million outside revenue projection. The hospital had surpluses of about $316,000 and $424,000 in the last two years from outside revenues, earned from treating patients.
"If they had their eye on the ball, they should have seen that right away," said Grippo, a professional hospital administrator. "They blew the budget projection and built the budget incorrectly."
Last winter, as Smeak and Grippo raised concerns about the looming deficit, Sen. Steve Johnson of Fort Collins proposed giving the hospital $1 million in state money.
Johnson is a CSU veterinary school grad and sits on the Legislature's powerful Joint Budget Committee.
The appropriation written by Johnson into the state budget specified the money would go directly to the hospital, bypassing CSU's normal budget appropriation, and was limited to fixing the hospital's "loss in revenue."
Smeak and Grippo said that upset CSU administrators who proposed spending $100,000 of that payment to expand an existing spay/neuter program.
"While that's a noble cause, that's not what the Senate intended the money to be used for," Grippo said. "If you take $100,000 out of a broke budget, you have to lay off three people."
Smeak said a CSU administrator "went ballistic" when he and Grippo pointed out the Legislative restrictions.
"I said to (Sen.) Steve Johnson, if you get this $1 million supplement, make sure the dean can't reduce my budget," Smeak said Monday. "The dean was totally upset with that."
Citing confidentiality rules, Frank said he could not respond to Smeak's comments. He said the university was pleased with the $1 million from the Legislature, and thanked Johnson.
Johnson said he's also butted heads with CSU administrators over financial issues.
"They can't even get $1 million without making a mess out of it," Johnson said Monday. "They've got to follow the directives of the Legislature. We give out the cookies. Take it out on us, not the hospital administrator. I think they ought to work with us. We're trying to help them."
Smeak said at the same time he was being told to cut expenses, Perryman's office warned him not to reduce staffing as the hospital underwent a national accreditation process earlier this year. [ READ: AVMA site visit] 😱

"They were nailing us from both sides," Smeak said.
Frank acknowledged the hospital faced budget problems that he blamed on a university policy dating from the early 2000s. Back then, as the state budget shrank, CSU diverted state tax dollars from the financially successful hospital into its general fund, to support other programs.
The hospital raised its rates in response, Frank said, and things worked pretty well until the economic downturn took hold last year.
"Fewer people are coming into the VTH and the ones who are coming in are spending less," Frank said.
He said hospital administrators came to the central CSU administration last fall, discussed the problem, and committed to cutting costs, a hiring freeze, and other measures intended to reduce the deficit.
Frank said he had no knowledge of any budgeting errors made at the hospital and declined to comment on the relationship between Smeak and Perryman.
Perryman on May 8 e-mailed hospital staff to tell them that CSU's central budget would be providing a $1 million match to the state bailout, which was enough to forestall layoffs. Smeak said he was never consulted on that plan.
"(Perryman) never called me. He never talked to me. He basically cut us off," Smeak said. "It's been extremely difficult. I've never failed at anything in my life."

 

[WannaFixFounder]

I understand you're angry at these vets for the treatment of your horses, but these things are best taken up with the vets directly, not vented in a public forum. Plus, your comments come across as sour grapes.

The people you're slamming will be your colleagues, and vet medicine can be a very small world. It is not wise to alienate people so early in your career.

What's wrong is wrong and right is right. All people make mistakes but every vet that worked on this horse's case refused to admit that the original diagnosis was wrong and the decisions were also inappropriate. It would have cost this horse his life if I didn't insist on taking him elsewhere (against the attending CSU vet's opinion).

Believe me, if I am posting this on a open forum, I have many more stories like this. I am not the first or last person to have a tradgic mis-diagnosis occur, which severely harmed or even killed an animal. In our veterinary oath, we'll agree to the statements below. According to what I have seen, no one has been interested in learning from the upsetting and financially draining mistakes which occurred on the animals I entrusted CSU with.

"I will practice my profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. I accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement of my professional knowledge and competence."

I would be happy to have the reputation for challenging my colleagues to provide better care, admitting mistakes, and lifelong learning. I plan on never subjecting myself to an environment where maintaining egos and profiting financially are the top priorities.

 

[soxbox]

I have read a lot of your posts and it seems as if you are a tad bitter that you were rejected from CSU and try to, through in your occasional digs at CSU, make yourself feel better. I appreciate your posting this information, but it would be nice to back up your thoughts as to what all this supposed turmoil is? Just because a hospital director steps down does not mean all hell has broken loose (especially if he is staying on as a doctor). And yes... there were 4 directors in 2 years... though 2 of them were INTERIM directors... quite a common practice for places to have a temp position filled while looking for the permanent replacement.

I also have a feeling that a lot of other places will be suffering from a decreased case load as paying for animal bills becomes a lower priority than feeding one's family when the economy is swirling down the drain... I worked at Tufts for 5 years and most people would do whatever they could to avoid taking their pets to Tufts... nothing to do with bad service, but the costs are ridiculous... same thing here....

If you truly think CSU is so horrific, why did you apply not only for the regular DVM program, but for one of the combined programs as well???????

 

[WannaFixFounder]

geez, you sure like the personal digs- do you make yourself feel better?

 

[twelvetigers]

Yikes! I'm not sure this post belongs on this forum. I'm sure you have valid reasons for your opinions, WFF, but a personal blog etc. might be a better place to voice them - this forum is supposed to help pre-vetters and new vet students, not to put down a vet school.

Again, opinions are everyone's right - I just don't think this is a good outlet.

 

[ri23]

"I just started Ross and they let in some people who I think don't have a chance in hell here."

"I will graduate, on time, with only about 30 people of the 96 students starting in May. I am already making bets on who will be gone within a year. I'm picking friends that are mature and highly motivated. Together, we've nicknamed ourselves the "A Team""

After reading previous posts that you have made, I find it ironic the comments you made about the doctors at CSU being arrogant. While no doctor is perfect, and every vet makes mistakes (I'm sure both you and I will in our future careers), that is certainly not a reason to judge the entire vet school.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

Maybe you missed "I only dealt with one department at CSU, with a handful of doctors, that I can honestly and openly highly recommend for both their outstanding clinical and client skills."

Not slamming the whole school, only the departments in which all of their top board certified doctors evaluate my animals, and, according to other specialized vets, made poor decisions and improper diagnosis's that almost cost the animal their life. The mistakes I have seen (more than the one described above) border on the line of malpractice, and certainly does not condone a positive (or accurate) learning environment. Figured it'd be something a potential student may want to know about, esp. with the tuition increases. If you're paying a 1/4 million dollars for an education it better be a damn good one where you don't have to go home early on clinic days (again, only my opinion... )

I strongly believe that some of the best ways to learn is through constructive criticism. However, it doesn't appear that anyone bashing me with personal attacks here agrees. Let's hope CSU is trying to change for the better.

Here's a comment left on the online version of the newspaper. Believe me, a lot of local people know what's going on.

"It is time for the administration to change. This is just one more example of poor leadership at the hospital. Since the new dean came on board, the hospital has been put on back burners for research. There have been many very good teachers who have left or have been pushed out due to the dean and assistant dean. This is not the direction this needs to go. the hospital is there for the community and more importantly for teaching the students. The students are the ones getting the raw end of the deal.....no cases.....poor teaching. Time to move on administration."
5/20/2008 9:59:58 PM


Oh, and 2 people have already withdrawled from my class before the first exam. It is only realistic to say that our class will be similar to years before in terms of drop-out rates. Maybe I should go CSU style with blinders on and repeat over and over "This is not happening".

 

[Bill59]

I think the point is this is not really an appropriate forum for clients to criticize specific, named veterinarians/veterinary hospitals. It's not really fair to present only one side of the story -- and there is ALWAYS more than one side -- when the other side can't respond.

And since you've tossed out the term malpractice, I'll throw out another legal term. Libel.

If you're seriously interested in providing constructive criticism, you would be far better to discuss this with the specific persons involved.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

If you're seriously interested in providing constructive criticism, you would be far better to discuss this with the specific persons involved.

And what would make you think I didn't?

 

[rexosaurus]

For someone who says they try to associate themselves with more mature people, you sure are acting pretty immature on this forum. This is not a place to discourage people, slam doctors or hospitals. I'm pretty sure you don't know every single thing that happens at CSU. There are a lot of beaurocratic issues that go on behind the scenes, things aren't as simple as they look when running a hospital. Perhaps when you become a vet, you will be challenged with a case, make your best diagnosis, and be wrong. It happens. Do you honestly think the vets you dealt with had malicious intent?
And as far as the admissions committee at CSU not accepting you, perhaps they saw something in you that you still haven't seen in yourself; thus not a good fit for their school.

 

[SweeTeaPie]

I understand you're angry at these vets for the treatment of your horses, but these things are best taken up with the vets directly, not vented in a public forum. Plus, your comments come across as sour grapes.

The people you're slamming will be your colleagues, and vet medicine can be a very small world. It is not wise to alienate people so early in your career.

Why is it bad to report something like this in an open forum? As a fellow horse owner, I want to know where I can go to get effective care for my horse. I had a frustrating experince with a vet and my trainer over what eventually turned out to be EPM in my pony. Both the vet and my trainer didn't feel that I was correct in believing that he had EPM, so I took him to New Bolton Center where he was correctly diagnosed and treated for EPM. Due to neglegence on the vet and my trainers part, my pony now has assymetrial gluteal muscle atrophy that will most likely never recover completely.

New Bolton was great, but my vet really dropped the ball. And I know of other ponies in that barn that had EPM that were never treated and "exhibted until they had nerve damage in their face!".

As owners, it's our responibility to get proper care for our horses, something that is sometimes hard to find. I appreciate what the OP is trying to warn us about. And as a prospective equine vet, I want to make sure I go to a school that has a good equine rep. Don't be down on her for giving us a head's up! She has just as much a right to tell fellow equestrians about her experince as she does telling the actual vets. And this IS useful for this forum because I have seen numerous questions as to "Where is the best school for equine?"

Gosh, can't someone point out something negative that they've encountered without being labeled as "bitter"?

 

[WannaFixFounder]

I appreciate what the OP is trying to warn us about. And as a prospective equine vet, I want to make sure I go to a school that has a good equine rep. Don't be down on her for giving us a head's up! She has just as much a right to tell fellow equestrians about her experince as she does telling the actual vets. And this IS useful for this forum because I have seen numerous questions as to "Where is the best school for equine?"

Gosh, can't someone point out something negative that they've encountered without being labeled as "bitter"?

Sweetie, sorry to hear about your pony. That must be devastating, esp. knowing EPM can be treated so well in the early stages.

Like I said, I expected much more from the #2 vet school in the country that has a multi-million dollar equine center and multi-million dollar equine orthopedic research lab. This horse's current vet is a CSU grad but admits CSU dropped the ball here.

Hope this gave someone a heads up 🙂

 

[WannaFixFounder]

rexosaurus, what's your issue? I'm just presenting facts. Why are you personally bashing me for that? 😕

 

[laurafinn]

Why is it bad to report something like this in an open forum?

Because there are two sides to any story, and the vets involved were not invited to provide their perspective.

Like other professions, veterinary medicine depends on the maintenance of respectful and collegial relations among practitioners.

While I am not a fan of maintaining a veterinary "thin, blue line," I do think that vets have a responsibility to consider the perspective and the standard human fallibility of the other vet. There is a reason that the public is not invited to human hospital M&M conferences. All of us will make mistakes. The important thing is to learn from them. This does NOT mean that corrective actions are not taken, but that publicly dragging a vet through the mud is rarely, if ever, indicated.

A helpful background read is Jerrold Tannenbaum's Veterinary Ethics: Animal Welfare, Client Relations, Competition and Collegiality.

Gosh, can't someone point out something negative that they've encountered without being labeled as "bitter"?

Absolutely. But that is not what is happening here.

 

[StealthDog]

As a fellow horse owner, I want to know where I can go to get effective care for my horse.

... which isn't the purpose of this forum.

 

[Bill59]

Why is it bad to report something like this in an open forum?

- It's not the purpose of this forum. There are plenty of places on the internet clients can go to complain about veterinarians.

- Laypersons are rarely qualified to determine if a veterinarian is negligent or not. They aren't familiar with standards of care regarding diagnosis and treatment of various diseases. A missed diagnosis or poor outcome is NOT synonymous with negligence or malpractice. And no, I don't expect anyone to believe this until they've graduated with a DVM and been in clinical practice.

- We only get one side of the story. So there's too much potential bias for readers to determine the accuracy of the OP's conclusions.

- Naming specific veterinarians/hospitals isn't fair because they can't respond. Even if they read this, it would be unethical for the attending doctors to discuss the details of a specific client and patient.

 

[Electrophile]

WFF, I understand your frustration and your wish to vent. That's totally understandable. I'm definitely also not one to mince words. But another thing to consider is that as a future vet, especially if you want to do equine, you'll be seeing those folks at national meetings and that sort of thing. Also if you want to do a residency, you'll need to be in good standing with the peers in the field so that they'll accept you into a residency program. So my point is that you can be angry, but at the same time, don't totally burn bridges.

To give you an example, I have a lot of disagreements with a lot of the veterinary nutritionists out there on VIN. But even if they get personal or condescending (which they do when someone brings up the raw diet or holistic brands of food, which is very, very frustrating), until your level of credentials and experience match theirs, remember to keep it polite and professional as possible. You can still get your opinion across in a firm way. Facts are facts, so even if you can't change everybody's mind, you'll be respected more and not just considered an upstart vet student with an attitude (or a pre-vet, which is probably worse). I've noticed on the clinical nutrition boards that some of them are slowly somewhat more open to holistic brands these days and I've had other vets e-mail me and tell me I'm doing a great job of making my points without being overbearing. Always good to hear. 🙂 So my advice is to keep your head down until you've got just as many degrees as they do. Then you can make all the enemies you like. 😀

 

[WannaFixFounder]

-

- Laypersons are rarely qualified to determine if a veterinarian is negligent or not. They aren't familiar with standards of care regarding diagnosis and treatment of various diseases. A missed diagnosis or poor outcome is NOT synonymous with negligence or malpractice. And no, I don't expect anyone to believe this until they've graduated with a DVM and been in clinical practice.

So you're saying a lawyer can't understand negligence or malpractice unless they are a DVM AND in Practice. 😱

 

[wi girl]

Decided I don't really want to get involved.

 

[elkbrucellaguy]

rexosaurus, what's your issue? Are you trying to tell me that the horse in the video isn't lame and shouldn't have had follow up x rays when the caregiver asked for them and that CSU really didn't "miss" the diagnosis of laminitis/founder for 6 months and didn't "miss" that the horse's coffin bone sunk? I'm just presenting facts. Why are you personally bashing me for that? 😕

I don't think you got Rex's point. In your first posts you make general broad statements making it sound like the entire VTH is filled with arrogant jerk veterinarians, departments are collapsing, and CSU is just a terrible place to learn. In my opinion you make inappropriate connections between the care your horse received and the current political state at the VTH. Only later do you describe your problem with the ONE resident treating your horse. Obviously one resident does not represent an entire department. I have recommended CSU's equine department on several occasions to friends, especially Dr. Bruce Connally who is an excellent equine vet in that department.

If you truly feel your horse received substandard care at CSU then start writing letters to the VTH Administration or maybe the CVMA, I honestly don't know what you do in this case. But for sure complaining about it on SDN isn't the correct response.

Secondly, if you don't like the current political state at the VTH and CSU and the taxpayer bailout, call your State Reps and Senators and annoy them. Attend the CSU Board of Trustees meeting and let them know what you are thinking. Again complaining about it on SDN is pointless and gives prospective students a biased one-sided view of what's going on at CSU.

 

[Bill59]

So you're saying a lawyer can't understand negligence or malpractice unless they are a DVM AND in Practice. 😱

In a malpractice trial, expert witnesses are used to describe standards of care, identify any breaches in those standards, and provide opinions as to whether those breaches are the most likely cause of injury. For a veterinary malpractice case, qualifications for an expert witness would include a veterinary medical degree, board certification by the relevant recognized college, and active engagement in clinical practice in the medical specialty or area of medicine about which they testify.

In other words ... yes, that's what I'm saying.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

I have recommended CSU's equine department on several occasions to friends, especially Dr. Bruce Connally who is an excellent equine vet in that department.

Since you mentioned his name.....

Dr Connally and Dr Purcell examined this horse in the beginning of December, 2007. These pictures show the horse in October and at the end of December 2007. Upon intake, she weighed 680 pounds (she weighed 920 upon purchase in June that year) and was rated a 1 on the Henneke scale, with a vet at the end of December stating she was "appalled by the condition of the horse".

On approx. December 10, when Purcell and Connally, along with several students on their ambulatory rotation, examined the above horse (and others) on emergency basis, Connally stated that the horse's jaw was broken (without taking radiographs) and that this horse, and the others on the farm, did not raise questions of suspected abuse or neglect and hence no reports were made about the care the animals received at this farm (which, per Colorado law which states the DVM's are required to report suspected abuse and neglect

http://www.dvmnews.com/dvm/News/Col...porting/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/437503)


Some others horses on the property:<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

The entire album
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh6/AnimalAngelsofDeath/

Radiographs in January showed no recent or previous fracture of the horse's jaw.
http://cbs4denver.com/local/Animal.Angels.Horse.2.620119.html
"Veterinarian Stacy Bluhm said the three horses were the thinnest she had seen come into Colorado Horse Rescue. She said she couldn't find a physical reason they were so underweight."

With a little bit of beet pulp and hay, here is the horse after 2 months of rehab <br>

The horse above horse after 4 months: <br>

A black and white paint horse named Dakota (which was severely underweight) died and a miniature donkey also perished during the 2nd and 3rd weeks of Decmeber- after these vets were at the farm (and nothing was reported) and before the story about massive neglect hit the media (due to several concerned citizens who were outraged by the situation) and THEN the animals were seized (first seizure 12/28/08) A total of 3 seizures occurred resulting in over 50 animals seized and criminal charges are pending.

http://www.timescall.com/news_story.asp?ID=5548
"Three malnourished horses arrived at the Colorado Horse Rescue last week from Animal Angels Horse Rescue in Larimer County, days before authorities seized 27 animals there Saturday."
"
Jenny Logan, barn manager at CHR, pointed out Ginger’s protruding hip bones and spine on Monday.
“Her ribs, you can count every single one, and her neck shouldn’t be sunken in,” Logan said. “Her biggest problem right now is she needs nutrition. She needs to eat.”
Nursing the horses back to health involves keeping them warm and well-fed.
Ginger’s handlers have the horse wrapped in a pink blanket to keep her warm so her energy can go to healing and gaining weight."





http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=83572


"Based on the results of Dr. Connally's report, a search warrant was issued for the removal of 27 animals, including 16 horses, ponies and a donkey, five llamas, five pygmy goats and one pig. The search warrant was executed Saturday."

"Larimer County Sheriff Jim Alderden says many of the horses were malnourished.

"Every time any of the personnel were on the scene to evaluate the condition of the animals, the water buckets were all frozen over, there weren't stock heaters, tank heaters in the water, there was inadequate water, and again, the feed wasn't a good quality feed," Alderden said. "

http://cbs4denver.com/pets/Animal.Angels.Horse.2.622204.html

"Lead veterinarian, Bruce Connally with Colorado State University, said among the horses, llamas and other livestock, the biggest problem is that they're malnourished.

"We didn't find medical reasons for them to be thin in most cases," Connally said."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_7945604

"The owner of a Wellington horse rescue accused of abusing the animals in her care was arrested today on 12 counts of animal cruelty, a misdemeanor. Alesha Matchett turned herself in to Loveland police and was released after posting $3,000 bail.
But Matchett could face additional charges after Larimer Sheriff and Larimer Humane Society officials today seized six horses, two llamas and several goats from the facility she operates, Animal Angels Horse Rescue.
Investigators seized 27 animals from the horse rescue on Dec. 29 — including horses, ponies, llamas and goats — after the county received complaints that they were malnourished and dehydrated."






I am very glad I was not a student on the rotation at the beginning of the month who left that farm, that horse, and 34 other equines without reporting it. I hope the students think on their own and do not always follow their mentor's reasoning and explanation. That black and white paint, who lied down in the frozen snowy ground without the energy to stand, died there, and whose carcass was primarily eaten by coyotes, could may have recovered if action was taken sooner.

Have fun on your ambulatory rotations at CSU!

 

[Pennvet]

withdrawled

CSU is a great school.

 

[Truth74]

Okay, I can understand where you're coming from, but now you're just abusing the forum.

When you were politely rebuked by veterinarians, you just came out swinging instead of heeding the message. Picking apart what people say does not change the fact that you have an axe to grind against some individuals at the school.

The only impression that I am getting is bitterness and an inability to understand why this is not an appropriate place to air this out.

 

[ri23]

You seem to be extremely stubborn and unwilling to hear anyone's opinion but your own. That was my original impression (from the horse slaughter thread - despite the vast veterinary stand for horse slaughter), and it has been verified here. Again, posting things like this does not show the whole story. One doesn't become a well respected veterinarian and leader in the field teaching at an amazing facility if one is not a competent veterinarian (and usually they are much more than competent). I see that there is really no point in arguing with you, as you have failed to respond to many of the salient points brought up by others on this thread.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

Obviously I am lying and have photo-shopped all these photos and fabricated the newspaper articles. CSU vets could never be wrong, just because they are a school.

 

[bclover]

WannaFixFounder,

I guess I don't see where you are interpreting anyone's comments as accusing you of lying or implying that you didn't experience this. It is just that enough is enough - there is nothing fruitful coming out of furthering this discussion. If you feel strongly enough about this (and I take it that you do) there are oh, so many other more effective venues than this forum for you to continue your complaints.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Have fun on your ambulatory rotations at CSU!

And the immaturity increases exponentially.....

This entire thread is a dig at CSU based off of a poorly done case (I won't get into how veterinarians have to be EXTREMELY careful about reporting even suspected abuse due to the number of legal issues, being sued for everything they have for libel as soon as they turn around, how poorly defined the legal definitions of animal neglect are - which by the way is something a veterinarian has nothing to do with, etc) Every hospital has them. It is inevitable - because humans are not perfect. It's medicine. It is something to be reported, be angry about, corrected, sure, but not used as graffiti on a forum because someone is bitter of their rejection.

And then you go off making generalizations about the entire VTH, all the veterinarians, and the quality of the education and service of the schools, and somehow seem to think that posting pictures of neglected horses makes your position completely rock-solid and correct, because none of us would dare argue with sad pictures of poor ponies.

This is one of the worst cases of unwarranted arrogance I have ever seen....


If you feel strongly enough about this (and I take it that you do) there are oh, so many other more effective venues than this forum for you to continue your complaints.

But see, that would involve DOING something. It is so much easier to act the tough, "outraged" guy on anonymous, public forums *rollseyes*

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Also noticed how conspicuously this was posted on the *pre-vet* forum - not trying to dissuade people from applying, no, of course not, are you? Wouldn't you want to be encouraging people to come to CSU in order to fix these problems you see? It wouldn't just be sour grapes, right? Course not.

 

[dvm'08]

this thread and its accusations are completely ridiculous.

Boy do i look forward to having you (WFF) as a colleague someday........ honestly.

 

[RazorDoc2010]

Obviously I am lying and have photo-shopped all these photos and fabricated the newspaper articles. CSU vets could never be wrong, just because they are a school.

I don't think that's the issue here. More, your accusations and your reaction to everyone else feeling that you have gone about this the wrong way are the problem. Seriously, get your metaphorical panties out of a wad, and take this elsewhere if you feel so strongly.

The veterinary profession is just too small to burn bridges like this, whether you realize that right now or not.

 

[catdoc]

I don't think that's the issue here. More, your accusations and your reaction to everyone else feeling that you have gone about this the wrong way are the problem. Seriously, get your metaphorical panties out of a wad, and take this elsewhere if you feel so strongly.

The veterinary profession is just too small to burn bridges like this, whether you realize that right now or not.

I think WFF might have realized she has made a huge mistake and that she has already started to burn bridges and that is why she went through the majority of her posts today and edited out any information that might give a hint of who she is, as well as changing her avatar. There were pictures of her on the thread she started about starting school at Ross which have all been removed as well. I guess she can only feel big and bad when no one knows who she is.

 

[elkbrucellaguy]

I think PATHbrd should remove this thread

 

[twelvetigers]

I liked the Ross thread and was really looking forward to seeing more pictures and hearing more about experiences there. Now I kind of have a sour taste in the back of my throat... maybe it's grapes? I dunno. I'm a bit disappointed, though.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I think PATHbrd should remove this thread

Agreed....there isn't anything of use here.....

 

[bclover]

I think PATHbrd should remove this thread

Agreed....there isn't anything of use here.....

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hoodle]

I also agree - this is one of the more unprofessional threads I've read in a while. Everyone is entitled to their rants. But please, keep your bitterness at being rejected AWAY from these public conversations... or at least, as everyone is entitled to be bitter, don't try to disguise it as objective fact. You (WFF) are on a rampage, and it's not pretty or fun to witness. Get yourself under control and act like an adult.

Can this thread be blocked? please? It makes me upset to think of a perfectly good school being badmouthed to this extent, without any repercussions.

 

[elkbrucellaguy]

I also agree - this is one of the more unprofessional threads I've read in a while. Everyone is entitled to their rants. But please, keep your bitterness at being rejected AWAY from these public conversations... or at least, as everyone is entitled to be bitter, don't try to disguise it as objective fact. You (WFF) are on a rampage, and it's not pretty or fun to witness. Get yourself under control and act like an adult.

Can this thread be blocked? please? It makes me upset to think of a perfectly good school being badmouthed to this extent, without any repercussions.

I sent a message to PATHbrd asking her to review this thread and remove it, if she agrees that this is not benefiting the SDN community.

 

[PAThbrd]

All -

Please know that I was not ignoring your complaints. When a post is reported, a moderator (if not me, than another SDN mod) generally responds within a few hours. When no action is taken, it is often because either:

a. a post, while it may upset some members, is not technically against any SDN TOS or
b. the other SDN mods and I are determining the most appropriate course of action.
The other mods and I are notified via email as soon as posts are reported, so there is no need to continue to report posts and send me PMs. Someone is always working on the issue. So in the future, please be patient.

That said, this is a public forum and members have a right to express their opinions as long as the topic pertains to pre-veterinary issues. The original topic of this thread, although some did not like it, was about a newspaper article the OP saw about one of the vet school and the poster's opinion on said school. Most of you have, at some point, expressed both positive and negative opinions of schools you do not attend, much like the OP. Just because you don't agree with the person's opinion or the perceived motives behind their post, it is not against SDN policies to post as such.

However, at this point, the thread has progressed past the point of the original topic, is no longer a relevant pre-vet discussion and will be closed.

In the future, take each post with a grain of salt, everyone has different opinions on everything! And move on.

Thanks.