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Current Chances?

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by Doktor_dud3, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 Pre-Med
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    Hey Guys,

    Kinda curious abiut my chances as is for my school (Wingate University). I feel like im on the right track but im not too sure so any advice is appreciated.

    -4.0 GPA (Cumulative/Science)
    -No PCAT, not required for applicants above 3.0 (should I take this?)
    -President, Pre-Pharmacy Club
    -Chemistry Club Member
    -Involved in Chemistry Research
    -Employed Part Time at CVS as a Pharmacy Tech, Employed as a Tech for 1.5 yrs total
    -A little bit of Community Service, only volunteer at a free pharmacy occasionally, am trying to step this up by volunteering at a hospital
    - First Gen college student (I doubt this still matters)
    -I will also have 2 years of pre-reqs, no bachelors


    I feel like I need to improve my CS hours, and I will have a better chance, not sure though. Maybe take the PCAT?

    Any advice would be super, thanks in advance!!

    -Dd3
     
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  2. BigBoss

    2+ Year Member

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    You'll get in anywhere mate.
     
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  3. Timbo

    7+ Year Member

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    You're fine. I'm curious what your pre-pharmacy club does though?
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 Pre-Med
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    Currently we have guest speakers or informative club meetings and various other things. Pharmacists, pharmacy students, and faculty. Learn about the life of a pharmacist, pharmacy student, etc. We also participate in volunteer work, competitions among pre-pharm clubs of other schools, and just general club things like parties and socials. We also do mock interviews. For instance, closer to application time I plan on having a meeting about how to operate PharmCAS and the like. Theres a decent amount of stuff that goes into it, and ive probably missed a few things, but thats about it lol.
     
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  5. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    There’s nothing you can do to on top of maintaining your GPA... As a contingency, you can study your PCAT prep once you’ve at least completed Ochem 1. As you said though, maintain above a 3.0 GPA and you bypass the PCAT at your school.

    In other words, your batting 1000 / 1000 at the plate. Keep up what your doing your golden.
     
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  6. allantois

    5+ Year Member

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    Take MCAT/GRE/DAT and apply elsewhere
     
  7. Timbo

    7+ Year Member

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    Very cool. Do any of those pharmacist guest pharmacist speakers tell people to stay the f away from pharmacy? That's probably I would do...
     
  8. stoichiometrist

    7+ Year Member

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    This is true. The idea of pre-pharm clubs doing volunteering, mock interviews, pharmacist guest speakers talking about their lives, making themselves a more competitive candidate, etc. is very 2008. In this day and age anyone who has a pulse and qualifies for $200k+ in student loans can get in.
     
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  9. princeafrica

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    I used to be pre-pharmacy club president. I helped a lot of students get pharmacy technician jobs at Walgreens. Subsequently all the students that got jobs as pharmacy techs stopped pursuing pharmacy....
     
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  10. OP
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    Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 Pre-Med
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    I try to tell my friends at school that pharmacy isnt some silver bullet career and that they need to know what they are getting into. I tell them to try to work as a tech and what not before they really commit to this thing. Unfortunately most seem to only chase dollar signs.
     
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  11. UGAZ

    UGAZ SDN Gold Donor
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    Take MCAT ...stay away from pharmacy career. Limited job opportunities and limited income.
     
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  12. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    You will get into almost any school. You realize deans are filling schools with anyone regardless of if they have all the pre-requisites or a criminal record involving
    selling street heroin for profit
    ?
     
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  13. CaNvWa farm

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    My school brought in a CVS supervisor and here are things that he talked about:
    Never before has the pharmacy job market been so tight (tens of applications for one opening)
    Never before has the wage been so low ($50/hr in most states, $60/hr in Alaska)
    Never before have hours been cut so many (down to 32 to 24 hrs/wk)
    We're in the worst season and don't know how long the season is but for sure it'll not be 5 years. It can be 10 or 15 years...
    Have you talked about that?
     
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  14. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    I think it will last 15-20 years then pharmacy schools will close and then supply will shrink. It will take a while to get rid of all this excess supply as new grads change fields / die off. I think if your not too concerned about working full time or earning money pharmacy is still a great field to get into. It's only the greedy people obsessed about money really getting punished. If you truly went into pharmacy to HELP people you would not mind working 20 hours a week for 50K a year. That's still enough to support a family of five living modestly. I went into pharmacy to learn and help people. So as long as i'm making at least 15-20 bucks an hour i'll be pretty happy. Greedy and egotistical people BTFO'd.
     
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  15. Momus

    10+ Year Member

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    The only advice you should listen to.
     
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  16. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    I was accepted to Wingate the first year they opened up their pharmacy school but I ended up going somewhere else. I know it is super popular to bag on new pharmacy schools but Wingate was great and left a super good impression on me.

    I was actually interested in their Asheville campus. Asheville would be an awesome area to spend 4 years. I was particularly interested in the weekly drum circle meeting every Friday night in downtown Asheville. What a great place to spen a few years...

    As far as your chances go you are doing everything right. You have a job in pharmacy (which is the most important thing) and you have good grades.

    Please.... don’t listen to the a$$holes that are saying not to get into pharmacy. When you graduate pm me and I will tell you where jobs are since they are too busy playing video games instead of networking and marketing themselves. They won’t help you they will just bring you down. I just had a dinner meeting tonight with other pharmacy leaders and we talked about several job opportunities we are aware of and we are all happily employed. You should surround yourself with successful people and you will also be successful.

    Just remember to show confidence and let your experience show during your interview and you will do great. Be proud of your accomplishments and you will get in for sure.
     
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  17. GodIsBeautiful

    GodIsBeautiful Dee-Dee.

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    Love your positivity! Especially when you said, "they are too busy playing video games instead of networking and marketing themselves." I agree with you! :)

    There are so many people—actually, the same one or two people—that come to pre-pharmacy/pharmacy SDN threads talking about the lack of job in the pharmacy field, or having "contingency" plans; whatever that depressively means to them. I'm starting to think those people did not plan their career out, therefore are stumped and want to bring others down. :( Not every person, nor every state, is like what they've experience. Daftness in a nutshell.

    Good luck to them, but lackluster attitudes get nowhere. Thank you for your wise words!
     
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  18. Doctorishere12345

    Doctorishere12345 Probationary Status

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    i try to pm you but it doesn't allow me. Can you tell me where jobs at
     
  19. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    I was replying to someone else.
     
  20. stoichiometrist

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    Telling students that they will be fine if they network and stop playing video games is like telling millennials they will be able to afford a home if only they stop eating avocado toast.

    The BLS projects that 17,400 jobs will be created through 2026, or about 1,740 jobs/year starting in 2016. There are approximately 15,000 students graduating from pharmacy schools each year. The number of pharmacists graduating each year is about 10x the rate of organic job growth.
     
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  21. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    Ok pre-Pharm, this is an example of a type of individual that you will run into throughout life. This is a type that lacks confidence and feels better when it brings others down to its level.

    Although there is a challenge in the pharmacy job market you cAn rest assured that about 20 percent of the competition has developed this approach. So take its numbers and subtract 20% from the competition then you see the playing field level. If you play your cards right you can subtract 50% - or more... it’s all in how you perform and present yourself.
     
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  22. Timbo

    7+ Year Member

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    When your company keeps cutting your tech hours... When they stop giving raises to any of their pharmacists... When you lose your job because your pharmacy was bought out. Those aren't things you can plan for when we were in pharmacy school because it wasn't happening then. But now you, as pre-pharm, are seeing these things happen, you are in a better decision to plan your career accordingly.

    Come on man, what is all this confidence BS? When there's no openings, there's no openings. I remember a few months ago I phoned a DM looking for a position closer to a bigger city. He told me our company hasn't hired any new staff pharmacists in the past 6 years. I was confident af on the phone, but I guess not enough to magically open a new pharmacist position? What about all these new grads getting hired at $50/hr and less than 32h/week? Do you think it was because they weren't confident that they couldn't get land a six figure salary contract? Or maybe, just maybe it's saturation affecting market supply and demand?
     
    #22 Timbo, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:17 AM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 12:26 AM
  23. Pharmacy is a Scam

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    It’s because these are the other types of individuals in the field of pharmacy - the APhA board members, faculty members at pharmacy schools, corporate retail chain workers, and old timer pharmacists who have been employed at their current job for 20+ years and have never had to actually look for a new job themselves so they rely on their friends who graduated 10-15 years ago on what the job market is like who they themselves don’t have first-hand experience which then becomes a vicious cycle - who will be pumping sunshine about the field regardless of what the job market looks like because they have direct financial incentives to do so.

    Like others have mentioned before, these are the types of people who brainwash pre-pharms into thinking that so long as they are harder working, more charismatic and better networkers then they will get jobs. Don’t get fooled by these folks. Reality is reality.

    And to the OP’s question: you will get in so long as you have a pulse and can take out $200k in loans. This has been iterated several times on this sub. It’s a half troll comment but it’s also true. Your stats are better than the majority of pre-pharm posts so I think you’re not truly scared of not getting in but just looking for some validation.
     
  24. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    Trust me - the past few posters may be pharmacists, but they are not the competition. They are what I would consider a write off worthy of complete ignorance, it gives me confidence to know that although the numbers are “scary”, a very large chunk of the numbers are barely even marketable for part time jobs. No one wants to work with that type of personality.
     
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  25. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    Although useful information:

    Users are reminded to stay on OP’s topic. We have a job market forum for such discussion.
     
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  26. Pharmacy is a Scam

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    Agreed and I think a similar analogy is the number of applicants for a residency program or for admissions to pharmacy school. While there may be 100 applicants for 1 spot, your “true” competition might be against only 20 candidates.

    The scary part here though is that as the total number of applicants increases, the odds of someone who is “qualified” to get a job substantially decreases because you introduce other factors besides merit that dilutes the number of available jobs for those “qualified” candidates. We all know that there are different hiring patterns/philosophies and that it is a completely subjective process as you go from one place to the next— so you might have organizations looking for people with the right experience, others are looking for “fit” or someone they know or someone internally, others might hire based on nepotism/my cousin or uncle works at this place so he’ll get me a job, others hiring based on alumni network i.e. this candidate is a shoo-in because we went to the same school and I’m going to “look out for him”. So while the proportion of “unqualified” candidates might be growing year over year, many of these candidates are going to land jobs based on one of these reasons I listed above (except the first one) which you might notice does not require someone to be “qualified” at all. You don’t have to be “marketable” to get a job through one of these methods and that is the scariest part which is the thought of someone with a 2.0 GPA who went to a diploma mill getting a job over someone who went to a top 5 school, had a 4.0 and did residency because the diploma mill graduate happened to check one of the boxes listed above while the resident didn’t.

    So my analysis of how the job market for pharmacists have changed are as follows:
    10-20 years ago: Having a degree and a pulse gets you a job
    3-10 years ago: Having a degree and the right credentials (residency, work experience etc.) gets you a job
    Last 2 years to the present: Having a degree and the right credentials and the right network gets you a job.

    Unfortunately most fresh new grads will not have all three attributes. Everyone will have a degree. But not everyone will have experience (limited number of residencies, and chicken-or-egg scenario for getting a “clinical” job fresh out of school) and 99% or more of new grads don’t have a network to rely on. And by network I don’t mean your professors or the pharmacists involved with club activities at your school because every student has that “network”. I mean practicing pharmacists unaffiliated with your school that you can call up for jobs.

    Therein lies the problem at the job market level, and the increased flux of pre-pharms and pharmacy students are worsening this outlook.
     
  27. giga

    Pharmacist U.S. Public Health Service 10+ Year Member

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    You will have no problem being accepted into the school of your choice (unless you start failing prereqs or there are some other red flags in your record that you didn't mention here, like criminal record or any kind of administrative actions...). As someone mentioned, with those grades and extracurricular activities (+ some more CS and physician shadowing) you could get into med school. I would recommend taking the PCAT if your state school requires it (you should apply to your state school - financially you won't find a better deal; even if you plan on having a scholarship or some other means of funding school, it's good to keep your options open in case funding for school falls through).

    Also, some unsolicited advice: make sure you've seriously considered other healthcare professions. Not just because of the current job market, but because I wonder if you might not be as challenged and fulfilled by pharmacy. Based on your current performance and level of engagement, you seem like someone who wants to excel in life and accomplish great things. These days, pharmacy schools are not attracting the greatest and brightest. Even in the days when the application process was a lot more competitive (~10-12 years ago), a lot of the pharmacy students I interacted with were only focused on getting a good paying job and making money. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that, but they weren't there because they had a genuine interest in pharmacy education or to be leaders or to do more than the bare minimum to get licensed and get a job. Many of my peers in pharmacy school strongly believed that they were simply consumers of education and just buying a degree, and had no interest in being challenged academically or professionally. When you're surrounded by that kind of culture, you might get bored or frustrated easily. Although it depends on what your motivations are... Again, based on your short summary of activities here, I wonder if you may be selling yourself short by going to pharmacy school. Just make sure you've explored all your options and you're confident that this is the battle you think is worth fighting and sacrificing for. Remember that pharmacists really don't have anyone advocating for them - it will be a constant uphill battle for your entire career to prove your worth and define your ever-changing role as a pharmacist, and you will be fighting this battle alone most of the time.

    TL;DR: make sure to shadow as many different healthcare professionals in as many different settings before deciding that pharmacy is "the one." If you continue to maintain the level of performance you have currently, you have a lot of different options, and it would be smart to consider all of them.
     
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  28. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    Oh.... my...... goodness......
     
  29. GodIsBeautiful

    GodIsBeautiful Dee-Dee.

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    I'm not saying all of those things you have stated are not happen in real-life. You are misunderstanding me, beloved.

    I am talking about how Debby-Downers on SDN comment on people's threads, posting the same material: "Steer clear from pharmacy!" "Pharmacy is a scam!" (cough, cough @pharmacyisascam). I'm sorry, pharmacy is not what you dreamed, or your plans did not go as planned. Life isn't fair. But not everybody on SDN has the same plans or hardships as you. Don't automatically assume people are doing the same things as you with their degree. :)

    ----

    PSA To Future Sarcastic Repliers: So many other careers have saturation, or it is hard to get a job. Pharmacy is not the only one! So please, go to the DVD store and get yourself checked out, because you sound like a broken record at this point. Thank you.
     
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    #29 GodIsBeautiful, Jan 12, 2019 at 1:39 PM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 7:01 PM
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  30. Jbrl

    2+ Year Member

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    I won’t reiterate what’s been stated here about the job market, which I agree with...

    But have you considered applying to other, better schools? For example, even if you don’t want to apply outside NC, you have a good chance of getting into UNC Eshelman if you take the PCAT and perform decently. The school would:
    • Have better reputation (established pharmacy school and great ranking in pharmacy and overall)
    • Have better networks (more driven students, more alumni, etc)
    • Provide more career and research resources
    • Be cheaper for in-state students (which I assume you are or will be)
    It’s not uncommon for goals to change during pharmacy school. UNC would provide you with a better springboard for nearly anything you decide down the line.
     
    #30 Jbrl, Jan 12, 2019 at 2:43 PM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 2:55 PM
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  31. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    Nuff said... Thank you
     
  32. Timbo

    7+ Year Member

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    Understandable. I just feel some of the advice is misleading. Yes being confident, marketing yourself, and planning ahead is helpful but it's not going to open up new positions, it's not going to keep corporations from merging and closing stores, and it's not going to reverse market trends toward lower salaries. So yes you may land a job from being super confident, but it may not be at your ideal location of choice, it may not pay as much as you had hoped, and it's definitely not going to prevent your company to close your store down if they merge or decide business isn't profitable.

    And yes you are right, other careers are experiencing saturation. However from what I could find, when compared to other healthcare professions, pharmacy is the worst by far:
    Growth data is from BLS and I did my best trying to find most up to date numbers for graduates per year. NP is the second worst after pharmacy, but even then the rate at which supply is outpacing demand isn't even half of pharmacy's rate.
     
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  33. Doctorishere12345

    Doctorishere12345 Probationary Status

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    "When you graduate pm me and I will tell you where jobs are" so where jobs at
     
  34. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    And I already replied to you - I said that response was not intended to garner your interest. Sorry you got nothing
     
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  35. Doctorishere12345

    Doctorishere12345 Probationary Status

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    Really? I'm in a same situation and you don't want to help out. lol
     
  36. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    Sorry - the art of making a good first impression is real... You did not impress me..
     
  37. Doctorishere12345

    Doctorishere12345 Probationary Status

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    Your first impression is so real that I want to see you are trolling or not.
    Now I know my answer and know who you really are
     
    #37 Doctorishere12345, Jan 12, 2019 at 11:17 PM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 11:25 PM
  38. JustFillIt

    JustFillIt Probationary Status

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    Yea ok
     
  39. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    The original topic and question has now lost its purpose. Closing thread.
     
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