D.O. degree change

[DuxburyPembroke]

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Here is your DO in the movie business!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OshAN8Y2uJk
And I love this clip because it sort of plays into what you said to. And because it makes me

I would take Bruce Campbell to represent me over Gray's Anatomy anyday.👍

 

[lewstools]

Here is your DO in the movie business!!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OshAN8Y2uJk[/YOUTUBE]

And I love this clip because it sort of plays into what you said to. And because it makes me

Hey that was great. What movie was that?

 

[lewstools]

First of all, one of the doctors on Dr. 90210 was a DO.

Secondly, who cares!

Thirdly, the point you are missing is that the general public can care less. Do you think they know the difference between DDS and DMD or DVM and VMD? Your argument only exists on SDN and among a subclass of DO students/residents who are insecure about themselves or blame their "shortcomings" on the profession.

The vast majority of people, when they are sick (or need warm food), go to the hospital and the first person who is wearing a stethoscope is a doctor to them. If you've ever worked in the ED, you know that all PAs and NPs are called "doctors" by the patients. The vast, vast vast majority of people don't look at your degree when choosing/seeing a doctor and choose doctors by word of mouth.

If one follows your logic, all DOs should be out there without patients but as you and I know, most DOs are doing very well with no patient shortages.

Last but not least what is your point?

My point? Watch the clip posted...Then, ask yourself why not simply allow DOs to opt into an MD trajectory if they choose? The times have changed and the differences between MD and DO are tiny. With the PAs and NPs being identified as doctors, THAT could be a public safety concern. I do not believe that NPs and PAs should under any circumstance hold themselves out as physicians, and with the upswing in the DNP for nurses, confusion will increase. My suggestion is to stratify, and simplify the delivery of health care because we all know that the patient's perception, at some point, and to some degree is integral in sound medical care.

 

[lewstools]

My point? Watch the clip posted...Then, ask yourself why not simply allow DOs to opt into an MD trajectory if they choose? The times have changed and the differences between MD and DO are tiny. With the PAs and NPs being identified as doctors, THAT could be a public safety concern. I do not believe that NPs and PAs should under any circumstance hold themselves out as physicians, and with the upswing in the DNP for nurses, confusion will increase. My suggestion is to stratify, and simplify the delivery of health care because we all know that the patient's perception, at some point, and to some degree is integral in sound medical care.

I got on this topic after I read this book a few days ago and it went into the whole MD DO topic which peaked my interest and I came here to read others thoughts on the subject. I don't want to mention the book's title, but it went to the heart of the matter nicely.

 

[Mbeas]

Then, ask yourself why not simply allow DOs to opt into an MD trajectory if they choose? The times have changed and the differences between MD and DO are tiny.

😕

If the differences are tiny, then why shouldn't DO's be able to "opt into an MD trajectory" (or whatever that means)?

ETA: I'm feeding a troll 👍.

 

[scotchtapetest]

My point? Watch the clip posted...Then, ask yourself why not simply allow DOs to opt into an MD trajectory if they choose? The times have changed and the differences between MD and DO are tiny. With the PAs and NPs being identified as doctors, THAT could be a public safety concern. I do not believe that NPs and PAs should under any circumstance hold themselves out as physicians, and with the upswing in the DNP for nurses, confusion will increase. My suggestion is to stratify, and simplify the delivery of health care because we all know that the patient's perception, at some point, and to some degree is integral in sound medical care.

The posted clip is a satiric clip made by some bored DO! It's not real.

If you want to "opt into an MD trajectory" go to a MD school.

If you decided to go to a DO school (for whatever reason) stop complaining, you are going to be a DO for the rest of your life (i.e. if you graduate). If you are not comfortable with that drop out!

Also agree with the above post, I think our "MD trajectory" guy/gal is a troll!

 

[lewstools]

The posted clip is a satiric clip made by some bored DO! It's not real.

If you want to "opt into an MD trajectory" go to a MD school.

If you decided to go to a DO school (for whatever reason) stop complaining, you are going to be a DO for the rest of your life (i.e. if you graduate). If you are not comfortable with that drop out!

Also agree with the above post, I think our "MD trajectory" guy/gal is a troll!

Sorry, but I'm not a troll. I made a simple post on another thread and got a litany of PMs and nasty comments. I am not a DO, rather an MD. If you don't like my opinion disregard it-My concern is the public safety issues surrounding extenders representing themselves as physicians.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Sorry, but I'm not a troll. I made a simple post on another thread and got a litany of PMs and nasty comments. I am not a DO, rather an MD. If you don't like my opinion disregard it-My concern is the public safety issues surrounding extenders representing themselves as physicians.

You first started ranting about "Benjamins" and how DOs exist just to make extra money for the boards/AOA/etc. Then you switched to DOs vs MDs in television. After that you switched to PAs and NPs then you talked about the book you've recently read about DOs vs MDs and now you are talking about public safety! All in the same thread!

In any case, your opinions have been duly noted on this thread. Thanks for sharing! 👎

 

[lewstools]

You first started ranting about "Benjamins" and how DOs exist just to make extra money for the boards/AOA/etc. Then you switched to DOs vs MDs in television. After that you switched to PAs and NPs then you talked about the book you've recently read about DOs vs MDs and now you are talking about public safety!

In any case, your opinions have been duly noted on this thread. Thanks for sharing! 👎

I can see you have the breadth and depth of viewing multiple conceptual constructs among revealing tangential posts, yet cannot categorize, compartmentalize them to suit your world view. OK. Your conceptual ceiling has been reached. I'm done here for now. Thanks for the replies which goes pretty much to mental agility. The cutesy hand sign? if you properly understood it's origins you'd reconsider using them.

But us trolls have fussing about to do. SO what do Benjamins, DOs Money for boards, Television and Movies have to do with what I've written on this thread? Here's the book: Field of Crons by DD Cross. it pretty much covered these topics to some sextant. Keep your thumb in a comfy place too.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

I can see you have the breadth and depth of viewing multiple conceptual constructs among revealing tangential posts, yet cannot categorize, compartmentalize them to suit your world view. OK. Your conceptual ceiling has been reached. I'm done here for now. Thanks for the replies which goes pretty much to mental agility. The cutesy hand sign? if you properly understood it's origins you'd reconsider using them.

But us trolls have fussing about to do. SO what do Benjamins, DOs Money for boards, Television and Movies have to do with what I've written on this thread? Here's the book: Field of Crons by DD Cross. it pretty much covered these topics to some sextant. Keep your thumb in a comfy place too.

This is just sad.

Being a bit bored on a Saturday morning and after reading a few of lewstools book-hawking posts (he's got one on the allo forum too) I did a little looking up on the old internets. He was accused of being a viral marketer on the allo board, but no, nobody would pay for the viral marketing of a book this lacking in interest from a self published hack author. Then I read a review on amazon written by DD Cross - same non-sensical rambling prose as lewstools. We're not going to read your book bro. And the plural of corn is corn, field of corn...

 

[scotchtapetest]

I can see you have the breadth and depth of viewing multiple conceptual constructs among revealing tangential posts, yet cannot categorize, compartmentalize them to suit your world view. OK. Your conceptual ceiling has been reached. I'm done here for now. Thanks for the replies which goes pretty much to mental agility. The cutesy hand sign? if you properly understood it's origins you'd reconsider using them.

But us trolls have fussing about to do. SO what do Benjamins, DOs Money for boards, Television and Movies have to do with what I've written on this thread? Here's the book: Field of Crons by DD Cross. it pretty much covered these topics to some sextant. Keep your thumb in a comfy place too.

Read his/her other posts! This person has created a thread on Allo forum for this book and his posts are getting the same awesome replies as this thread. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=884622

The book s/he is talking about is apperantly a $2.99 book only available as "Kindle" Edition on Amazon (so it's not even worth printing on paper)!

The book's writing style is very similar to this person's posts: Ranting with no defined meaning and includes more than a few curse words per paragraph.

Here is a quote from the book: "Tommy's a D.O. now? S*** wasn't he a chiropractor or somethin' like that? ... Tommy wanted to write prescriptions and said f*** it. He upped and went to osteopathic school." (Citation: Field of Corns by D.D. Cross).

Here is the "about the author" as per Amazon:
"D.D. Cross is an author of several novels and screenplays. Prior to an extensive career in the entertainment industry Cross attended graduate school, and obtained two medical doctorates, trained in surgery, practiced, and made numerous contributions to the scientific community."

http://www.amazon.com/Field-of-Corn...?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327775712&sr=1-3

This person is definitely a troll and very likely the author or beneficiary of this "book" trying to advertise it on SDN! 👎thumbdown👎

 

[lewstools]

Read his/her other posts! This person has created a thread on Allo forum for this book and his posts are getting the same awesome replies as this thread. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=884622

The book s/he is talking about is apperantly a $2.99 book only available as "Kindle" Edition on Amazon (so it's not even worth printing on paper)!

The book's writing style is very similar to this person's posts: Ranting with no defined meaning and includes more than a few curse words per paragraph.

Here is a quote from the book: "Tommy's a D.O. now? S*** wasn't he a chiropractor or somethin' like that? ... Tommy wanted to write prescriptions and said f*** it. He upped and went to osteopathic school." (Citation: Field of Corns by D.D. Cross).

Here is the "about the author" as per Amazon:
"D.D. Cross is an author of several novels and screenplays. Prior to an extensive career in the entertainment industry Cross attended graduate school, and obtained two medical doctorates, trained in surgery, practiced, and made numerous contributions to the scientific community."

http://www.amazon.com/Field-of-Corn...?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1327775712&sr=1-3

This person is definitely a troll and very likely the author or beneficiary of this "book" trying to advertise it on SDN! 👎thumbdown👎

I was entertained by it, I don't understand the nastiness. I read it in paperback, so don't know if commenting about worthiness based on format is entirely accurate. Again, I was truly amused.

 

[lewstools]

This is just sad.

Being a bit bored on a Saturday morning and after reading a few of lewstools book-hawking posts (he's got one on the allo forum too) I did a little looking up on the old internets. He was accused of being a viral marketer on the allo board, but no, nobody would pay for the viral marketing of a book this lacking in interest from a self published hack author. Then I read a review on amazon written by DD Cross - same non-sensical rambling prose as lewstools. We're not going to read your book bro. And the plural of corn is corn, field of corn...

Sorry `BRO' not my book. Just read it. Why be a dick? Dick. Continue with your morning boredom. Cheers.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

Why be a dick? Dick.

 

[DocEspana]

Well played, good sir!

 

[Mbeas]

pic of J.C.

my new favorite "come at me bro" pic

And the loose stool was finally banned...

 

[John146]

To all pre-med DO's and pre-clinical DO's:

Just wait until you are on rotations and you get asked by a gazillion patients, what's a DO or what is osteopathic medicine? There's no single question I hate to answer more than that and I'm sure I'll have to answer it probably a million more times before I graduate.

 

[scotchtapetest]

To all pre-med DO's and pre-clinical DO's:

Just wait until you are on rotations and you get asked by a gazillion patients, what's a DO or what is osteopathic medicine? There's no single question I hate to answer more than that and I'm sure I'll have to answer it probably a million more times before I graduate.

I have done most of my clinical rotations at large academic hospitals some of which are very DO "unfriendly" places and I can count the number of times I've been asked that question on one hand (i.e. after 3.5 yrs of med school). Also, once I explain it, all the responses have been very positive and personally don't mind it at all!

However, If you are not comfortable with who you are or if you are insecure about your training/skills, then I can see how that could be a problem!

 

[DocEspana]

To all pre-med DO's and pre-clinical DO's:

Just wait until you are on rotations and you get asked by a gazillion patients, what's a DO or what is osteopathic medicine? There's no single question I hate to answer more than that and I'm sure I'll have to answer it probably a million more times before I graduate.

Yea, i gotta say, I've probably been asked it about 10 times ever in my medical school career (2.5 years of it) and 5 of them were by girls I was on dates with. only 5 of them have ever come from patients. So i dont see it as a big deal at all. Its something i prepped tons of good explinations for, but never really had to use them.

 

[donkeykong1]

Yea, i gotta say, I've probably been asked it about 10 times ever in my medical school career (2.5 years of it) and 5 of them were by girls I was on dates with. only 5 of them have ever come from patients. So i dont see it as a big deal at all. Its something i prepped tons of good explinations for, but never really had to use them.

Got any good ones? I've recently been asked by some of my fellow classmates from undergrad.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Got any good ones? I've recently been asked by some of my fellow classmates from undergrad.

Yes (always go with the truth),

There are two types of physicians in the US: DOs and MDs. Both practice the full scope of medicine and surgery and can be found in all fields however, DOs are trained with extra training/emphasis in/on the musculoskeletal system and manual medicine.

After that, the usual patient response is "Wow, I did not know that" followed by "what happened to the cup of water the nurse was going to bring me?"

BTW, as an OMS-0 don't worry about it (you have more important things to worry about now) and congrats on your admission!

 

[donkeykong1]

Yes (always go with the truth),

There are two types of physicians in the US: DOs and MDs. Both practice the full scope of medicine and surgery and can be found in all fields however, DOs are trained with extra training/emphasis in/on the musculoskeletal system and manual medicine.

After that, the usual patient response is "Wow, I did not know that" followed by "what happened to the cup of water the nurse was going to bring me?"

BTW, as an OMS-0 don't worry about it (you have more important things to worry about now) and congrats on your admission!

Well said. and yeah ur right i do have other things to worry about like well lets see how am i going to afford med school, housing, books, moving, consolidating undergrad loans and the list goes on....

 

[MedicineMike]

I like being at a DO school, and like being in the DO minority. However, I think OMM is not the be all-end all. It has it's advantages, and it takes up a large amount of my time, but i feel that even though I probably won't ever use OMM after I finish, it at least gives me opportunity to advance my hands-on skills. That is undeniable.

That being said, I feel that the older AOA heads are ******ed. They have this notion that DOs do something completely different from traditional medicine. Maybe in the 1800s, come on guys--we do the same exact shi%. In my opinion, it's those guys who are definitely helping the profession, but also allowing it to be stagnant w/ their ridiculous views about osteopathy. They need to get over themselves and realize that 99.9% of DOs are the same as MDs. That .1% is the DOs who actually do an OMM residency...

 

[bhavik]

Is this guy allowed to do this? Check out his degrees:

http://www.meetdrben.com/Portals/8/DrBen's Bio May 2011.pdf

 

[deleted432032]

Is this guy allowed to do this? Check out his degrees:

http://www.meetdrben.com/Portals/8/DrBen's Bio May 2011.pdf

Quote from link, 1st paragraph:

"He earned his Osteopathic Medical degree in 1981, his Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine degree in 2001, and his M.D. in 2004."

If he actually earned it by going through an allopathic medical school then yes. It looks like he did it through University of Science Arts & Technology Montserrat, West Indies, which has a DO to MD program.

http://www.usat.ms/
http://www.usat-montserrat.org/medicine.htm

 

[fzwarrior]

Quote from link, 1st paragraph:

"He earned his Osteopathic Medical degree in 1981, his Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine degree in 2001, and his M.D. in 2004."

If he actually earned it by going through an allopathic medical school then yes. It looks like he did it through University of Science Arts & Technology Montserrat, West Indies, which has a DO to MD program.

http://www.usat.ms/
http://www.usat-montserrat.org/medicine.htm

Sounds like a big waste of time and money to me.

 

[p1acebo]

sounds like a big waste of time and money to me.

+100.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Is this guy allowed to do this? Check out his degrees:

http://www.meetdrben.com/Portals/8/DrBen's Bio May 2011.pdf

Actually No!

You can NOT advertise yourself as a DO or a MD unless you are actually LICENSED as a DO or a MD regardless of your obtained degree(s).

For instance even if you go to a legit DO or MD school and you don't do a residency, even though you earned the degree you still can't advertise yourself as one unless you are licensed as such.

Now the problems with this guy:
1) His MD isn't legit to being with.
2) He has only done an AOA residency which can't be used for licensure as a MD.

This particular process he used to get a "MD" has also been rejected by multiple licensing board in past. Do a search on SDN and there are multiple threads on it!

More interesting is that I did a little search on this guy and as expected, he is only licensed as a DO in Georgia and (here is the kicker) he apparently has had some tax problems recently and tried to sue the IRS (see Bennie Stephen Johnson v. The United States) and guess what, he lost

Do I need to say anything more about this jacka**? I hope GA Board revoke his license ASAP! People like him are a danger to the public and an embarrassment to the profession!

 

[USCTrojan11]

DO schools were founded on the premise of offering OMM and a different kind of care. If they wanted to be MD schools, they should have just started out as that. DO students SHOULD have gone to DO schools wanting to be a part of osteopathy (which I totally respect), not using it as a backup. If they wanted to be MDs, they should have. I acknowledge and respect those who made DO their first choice. The same can't be said for those who just wanted to be MDs and settled - they continue to drive the establishment of new DO schools (I know there's a physician shortage - but if the spots in DO schools were not filled, no one would want to make more DO schools right?). The two were established as separate bodies, the two represent different principles, lets keep it that way. Get over any insecurities about what letters are behind your name and live up to the values you claimed on your application.

To open another can of worms, should DOs be allowed to specialize in ALL specialties. Is a radiologist DO different from an MD radiologist? DOs should really be limited to specialties that are in their scope. They were founded on the premise of providing primary care...

 

[scotchtapetest]

DO schools were founded on the premise of offering OMM and a different kind of care. If they wanted to be MD schools, they should have just started out as that. DO students SHOULD have gone to DO schools wanting to be a part of osteopathy (which I totally respect), not using it as a backup. If they wanted to be MDs, they should have. I acknowledge and respect those who made DO their first choice. The same can't be said for those who just wanted to be MDs and settled - they continue to drive the establishment of new DO schools (I know there's a physician shortage - but if the spots in DO schools were not filled, no one would want to make more DO schools right?). The two were established as separate bodies, the two represent different principles, lets keep it that way. Get over any insecurities about what letters are behind your name and live up to the values you claimed on your application.

To open another can of worms, should DOs be allowed to specialize in ALL specialties. Is a radiologist DO different from an MD radiologist? DOs should really be limited to specialties that are in their scope. They were founded on the premise of providing primary care...

Where did you get the idea that DOs were founded to provide primary care? From day 0, DOs were trained to practice the full scope of medicine and continue to do so. Radiology and all other specialties are definitely within the scope of a DO's training whether or not there is a difference (who said there has to be a difference?).

Osteopathic medicine was founded on the basis of providing an alternative approach to the "establishment" (aka MDs) in the late 1800s when you guys were using cyanid to "treat" everything. Obviously differences have diminished since then.

 

[DrMediterranean]

Where did you get the idea that DOs were founded to provide primary care? From day 0, DOs were trained to practice the full scope of medicine and continue to do so. Radiology and all other specialties are definitely within the scope of a DO's training whether or not there is a difference (who said there has to be a difference?).

Osteopathic medicine was founded on the basis of providing an alternative approach to the "establishment" (aka MDs) in the late 1800s when you guys were using cyanid to "treat" everything. Obviously differences have diminished since then.

This. +1

 

[donkeykong1]

where did you get the idea that dos were founded to provide primary care? From day 0, dos were trained to practice the full scope of medicine and continue to do so. Radiology and all other specialties are definitely within the scope of a do's training whether or not there is a difference (who said there has to be a difference?).

Osteopathic medicine was founded on the basis of providing an alternative approach to the "establishment" (aka mds) in the late 1800s when you guys were using cyanid to "treat" everything. Obviously differences have diminished since then.

+2

 

[THH]

The two were established as separate bodies, the two represent different principles, lets keep it that way.

I'd actually like to hear how you think the two "different principles" differ in a practical sense? I only ask because one of the common criticisms of DOs/MDs remaining separated is that the "holistic" philosophy isn't any different than how any competent physician would treat a patient, regardless of the letters on his coat.

 

[bhavik]

Actually No!

You can NOT advertise yourself as a DO or a MD unless you are actually LICENSED as a DO or a MD regardless of your obtained degree(s).

For instance even if you go to a legit DO or MD school and you don't do a residency, even though you earned the degree you still can't advertise yourself as one unless you are licensed as such.

Now the problems with this guy:
1) His MD isn't legit to being with.
2) He has only done an AOA residency which can't be used for licensure as a MD.

This particular process he used to get a "MD" has also been rejected by multiple licensing board in past. Do a search on SDN and there are multiple threads on it!

More interesting is that I did a little search on this guy and as expected, he is only licensed as a DO in Georgia and (here is the kicker) he apparently has had some tax problems recently and tried to sue the IRS (see Bennie Stephen Johnson v. The United States) and guess what, he lost

Do I need to say anything more about this jacka**? I hope GA Board revoke his license ASAP! People like him are a danger to the public and an embarrassment to the profession!

So he could have gotten away with it if he did an ACGME residency? Not sure I follow here

 

[scotchtapetest]

So he could have gotten away with it if he did an ACGME residency? Not sure I follow here

No he still didn't go to a legit/recognized MD school. He took few classes and got a "degree".

If he had gone to a legit/US recognized MD school and done an ACGME residency after his MD degree (like everyone else) then he would've been eligible for licensure. Still needed to be LICENSED as a MD prior to advertising himself as one!

 

[MT Headed]

I'd actually like to hear how you think the two "different principles" differ in a practical sense?

The DO radiologist X-rays the whole patient, not just the diseased organ.

 

[THH]

The DO radiologist X-rays the whole patient, not just the diseased organ.

 

[YiSheng]

The DO radiologist X-rays the whole patient, not just the diseased organ.

👍

 

[bhavik]

No he still didn't go to a legit/recognized MD school. He took few classes and got a "degree".

If he had gone to a legit/US recognized MD school and done an ACGME residency after his MD degree (like everyone else) then he would've been eligible for licensure. Still needed to be LICENSED as a MD prior to advertising himself as one!

Ah I see. Here he is:

https://www.gaphysicianprofile.org/profile.ShowProfileAction.action?lic_nbr=023999

 

[somekindof]

DO schools were founded on the premise of offering OMM and a different kind of care. If they wanted to be MD schools, they should have just started out as that. DO students SHOULD have gone to DO schools wanting to be a part of osteopathy (which I totally respect), not using it as a backup. If they wanted to be MDs, they should have. I acknowledge and respect those who made DO their first choice. The same can't be said for those who just wanted to be MDs and settled - they continue to drive the establishment of new DO schools (I know there's a physician shortage - but if the spots in DO schools were not filled, no one would want to make more DO schools right?). The two were established as separate bodies, the two represent different principles, lets keep it that way. Get over any insecurities about what letters are behind your name and live up to the values you claimed on your application.

To open another can of worms, should DOs be allowed to specialize in ALL specialties. Is a radiologist DO different from an MD radiologist? DOs should really be limited to specialties that are in their scope. They were founded on the premise of providing primary care...

You made sense until that last paragraph. DO students are trained and educated in the same way as MDs, so why should they be limited in their scope? Primary care isn't in "our" scope any more than it is for any other medical student. Primary care is emphasized in many MD schools as well.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

You made sense until that last paragraph. DO students are trained and educated in the same way as MDs, so why should they be limited in their scope? Primary care isn't in "our" scope any more than it is for any other medical student. Primary care is emphasized in many MD schools as well.

Agreed, at my NSU interview, they said their "focus" on primary care has been de-emphasized over the years simply because a lot of their students (50%) were specializing.

As to the post you quoted, who cares if some people use DOs as back-ups. In reality, OMM is a controversial method of practice and few DO's actually use it (the DO I shadowed only used it once in 5 weeks of shadowing). The stress of reapplying, retaking the MCAT, doing EC's that we may or may not enjoy, and other factors must be considered. DO is not a back-up, it's a means to an end.

 

[deleted432032]

No he still didn't go to a legit/recognized MD school. He took few classes and got a "degree".

If he had gone to a legit/US recognized MD school and done an ACGME residency after his MD degree (like everyone else) then he would've been eligible for licensure. Still needed to be LICENSED as a MD prior to advertising himself as one!

DO and MD is the graduate title given once you graduate medical school, as far as I have known. In other words, once you graduate from an allopathic or osteopathic medical school you are a DO or an MD, no one can take that away from you and you can use those initials. The residency is required to practice medicine but is not required to use the initials after your name, although if no residency is done on either side then it could lead to confusion depending on the setting you use them in.

Did this guy go through a legit MD school after his completion of a DO school? Not sure. Should he be able to use both in his name? If he didn't go through a MD school then no.

However, if Someone were to Actually go through both schools they could use both initials. They would only be allowed to follow one set on guidelines however, AOA or ACGME for licensure.

 

[PharmaTope]

Actually No!

You can NOT advertise yourself as a DO or a MD unless you are actually LICENSED as a DO or a MD regardless of your obtained degree(s).

For instance even if you go to a legit DO or MD school and you don't do a residency, even though you earned the degree you still can't advertise yourself as one unless you are licensed as such.

Now the problems with this guy:
1) His MD isn't legit to being with.
2) He has only done an AOA residency which can't be used for licensure as a MD.

This particular process he used to get a "MD" has also been rejected by multiple licensing board in past. Do a search on SDN and there are multiple threads on it!

More interesting is that I did a little search on this guy and as expected, he is only licensed as a DO in Georgia and (here is the kicker) he apparently has had some tax problems recently and tried to sue the IRS (see Bennie Stephen Johnson v. The United States) and guess what, he lost

Do I need to say anything more about this jacka**? I hope GA Board revoke his license ASAP! People like him are a danger to the public and an embarrassment to the profession!

you are incorrect. i dont know georgia law but you can do this in many states. you cannot call yourself a physician and used false credentials to see patients if you are not licensed. however, he is licensed and he can see patients calling himself MD or DO all he wants.

there are a lot of physicians working in drug companies that did not go obtain a full medical license, they are still MD. you just cannot advertise medical services without being licensed as a physician in the US. He is licensed. argument is over.

From what I understand, this guy has done a lot of great things over his career. I never met him personally but I dont think you should trash his credentials when you are merely a medical student with zero accomplishments in your life while this guy has a storied career.

 

[TXKnight]

you are incorrect. i dont know georgia law but you can do this in many states. you cannot call yourself a physician and used false credentials to see patients if you are not licensed. however, he is licensed and he can see patients calling himself MD or DO all he wants.

there are a lot of physicians working in drug companies that did not go obtain a full medical license, they are still MD. you just cannot advertise medical services without being licensed as a physician in the US. He is licensed. argument is over.

From what I understand, this guy has done a lot of great things over his career. I never met him personally but I dont think you should trash his credentials when you are merely a medical student with zero accomplishments in your life while this guy has a storied career.

OK I'm not even in med school yet, regardless, I don't to be an MSI or whatever to understand that inmy opinion you should not call yourself something you are not. Is he licensed to practice? Yes. Is he a true MD/DO? NO. I don't even know how this guy got a license but this IMO is just wrong. Would you trust your sick kids with this guy or would you go with someone that has actually walked the walk?
Maybe he has done great things, but one of them is not calling himself something he is not.

 

[deleted432032]

OK I'm not even in med school yet, regardless, I don't to be an MSI or whatever to understand that inmy opinion you should not call yourself something you are not. Is he licensed to practice? Yes. Is he a true MD/DO? NO. I don't even know how this guy got a license but this IMO is just wrong. Would you trust your sick kids with this guy or would you go with someone that has actually walked the walk?
Maybe he has done great things, but one of them is not calling himself something he is not.

Regardless of anything else, I just would like to state that some do go through the process to earn both degrees. Licensure is different than a degree. You can hold both degrees, MD and DO, and practice under one of the two, difference between AOA licensure and ACGME licensure. The practicing part is the licensure, not degree earned.

I just ask everyone to look at the site below and judge for yourself if he earned an MD. Others could be licensed to practice under DO, but still hold a legitimate MD degree.

http://www.usat.ms/
http://www.usat-montserrat.org/medicine.htm

(PS. unable to find any info about this school to show whether it is creditable or not)

 

[Dharma]

To open another can of worms, should DOs be allowed to specialize in ALL specialties. Is a radiologist DO different from an MD radiologist? DOs should really be limited to specialties that are in their scope. They were founded on the premise of providing primary care...

Wow. To put it bluntly, you really don't know what the hell you are talking about.

 

[scotchtapetest]

you are incorrect. i dont know georgia law but you can do this in many states. you cannot call yourself a physician and used false credentials to see patients if you are not licensed. however, he is licensed and he can see patients calling himself MD or DO all he wants.

there are a lot of physicians working in drug companies that did not go obtain a full medical license, they are still MD. you just cannot advertise medical services without being licensed as a physician in the US. He is licensed. argument is over.

From what I understand, this guy has done a lot of great things over his career. I never met him personally but I dont think you should trash his credentials when you are merely a medical student with zero accomplishments in your life while this guy has a storied career.

No, you are wrong. You can NOT advertise yourself as a MD or a DO just based on your "degree" (at least in most states). Unless you are LICENSED you can NOT call yourself X X, MD. The reason being for public safety. Folks that work for pharma that don't hold a license don't (or definitely shouldn't) advertise themselves as DO or MD even though they may have earned the actual degrees. One could file a complaint against them with the state board and it could carry criminal sanctions if convicted.

If that wasn't the case and you didn't have to be licensed, I could give you a piece of paper that said you graduated from my school of medicine with a MD and you could go out and advertise yourself as one regardless of your clinical activity (since by your argument you wouldn't need a license and therefore you wouldn't necessarily have to go to an accredited medical school, and if it doesn't have to be accredited then there is no better one than bala565 school of medicine).

Furthermore, apparently not only you know him very well, but it appears that you know me very well too! If I was you, I wouldn't project my life story on others! And any schmuck who advertises himself as MD, DO, NMD is exactly that, a schmuck! (also when you read his CV, you find out that he is actually a super schmuck)!

 

[USCTrojan11]

Where did you get the idea that DOs were founded to provide primary care? From day 0, DOs were trained to practice the full scope of medicine and continue to do so. Radiology and all other specialties are definitely within the scope of a DO's training whether or not there is a difference (who said there has to be a difference?).

Osteopathic medicine was founded on the basis of providing an alternative approach to the "establishment" (aka MDs) in the late 1800s when you guys were using cyanid to "treat" everything. Obviously differences have diminished since then.

You might want to learn alittle about the history of your degree.

http://www.aacom.org/about/osteomed/Pages/default.aspx

"In fact, the mission statements of the majority of osteopathic medical schools state plainly that their purpose is the production of primary care physician"

The reason why DO was passed and allowed to form was their claim to meet the primary care need. Should they not stick with that?

 

[USCTrojan11]

You made sense until that last paragraph. DO students are trained and educated in the same way as MDs, so why should they be limited in their scope? Primary care isn't in "our" scope any more than it is for any other medical student. Primary care is emphasized in many MD schools as well.

This was phrased terribly and I apologize. What I'm saying is that there are specialties outside of the scope of a DO, not because of their training which is equal to an MD, but outside of the founding principle behind osteopathy. What is a DO radiologist and how is he using osteopathy in any matther? How is he different from an MD radiologist. Same with surgeons. Other specialties such as cardiology or gastro definitely are specialtys that fit the scope and training of a DO.

I did not be to insult you as saying your training is inferior. I meant to say there are specialties where it is actually useful and question whether DOs (assuming they went to DO school to practice and use tenets of osteopathy) should be specializing in areas where they can only use their training. It's not PC but let's be honest, general surg DO = general surg MD. If this person went to CCOM to really learn about and practice according to the 4 tenets, why would they pick a specialty in which they can't use it. My only reasoning is that they don't really have an interest in what osteopathy is all about and went to the DO school for the wrong reasons.

 

[USCTrojan11]

For the record, I really like and believe in what osteopathy is all about. I applied to both MD and DO schools despite my scores being "safe" for MD. I met amazing people in my interviews for both MD and DO schools and was willing to choose a school based on what they represented. I received multiple acceptances from both MD/DO and was hardset on going to a DO school despite everyone telling me it was stupid (attendings that were both MD and DO). It wasn't til I started talking to the students that I realized the hypocrisy going on at DO schools. The majority of the students were trying to integrate and say they were the same as MDs because they didn't get into an MD school. I saw students try to explain to my parents that DO was an "honors" MD degree, carried more prestige and were better than MDs (my dad is an MD and was terribly insulted - he also teaches both MD and DO students). Then there were the select few that I had the utmost respect for: they choose DO despite high scores, they believed in primary care and meeting the needs of the underserved, they acknowledged OMM was a tool that could be used to help their patients and they had no interest in trying to tell others they were better or worse than allopaths. I ended up at a top 10 MD school in a program that has a mission that coincides with what osteopathy is all about. I was set on AZCOM or DMU for the longest time. It wasn't until I got the sentiment that many of these kids were there for the wrong reasons that I couldn't do it. I believe in osteopathy and its principles but osteopathic schools in practice don't live up to these for the most part.

PS. It got ridiculous when a DMU student told me that I should go there instead of DGSOM despite it having better weather, closer to home, 20k less per year, better match, better scores, better avgs, better hospital system because I wouldn't have OMM and would feel inadequate.