D.O. scramble questions

[MiesVanDerMom]

Can you register for the D.O. match solely for the purpose of scrambling? You wouldn't have any programs to rank. You just want to scramble. Is this allowed?

Can you scramble in a specialty different from the one you're applying for?

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[peppy]

Can you scramble in a specialty different from the one you're applying for?

Technically possible, but I would not expect that to work unless you have a personal statement and letters of rec ready to go for that specialty to make it look like the other specialty was your first choice all along.
Not to mention that scrambling in general just isn't very successful. My impression (from having gone through it) is that most programs in the scramble just take the first few decent people that they see instead of going through the pile of applications to pick out the best people, so you may not even get a chance to be considered before the spots are gone.

If you're worried you haven't gotten enough interviews I would try to find some programs whose deadlines haven't passed to apply to or try asking some faculty you get along well with if they can help you by calling people they know at other programs or something.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Peppy,

I've received 12 interviews but not all in the same field. I've 5 for TY, 2 prelim surg, 2 DO and 3 MD (in the field I'm pursuing) ... I'm very concerned and the program secretaries all seem to be saying "it is crazy insane the number of applicants we've received" ... is the scramble going to be even worse? Should I take a DO spot instead? I'm kinda at a loss ... I'm taking USMLE Step 2 next week and hoping for high score to notch a some more MD interviews ... the DO ones won't happen b/c of the "if you dont rotate, dont expect an interview" rule ... thanks

 

[LOVE OB]

Why on earth would someone want to scramble if they didn't have to??? TRust me it is a brutal process that I would only wish upon my worst enemy.

 

[peppy]

Why on earth would someone want to scramble if they didn't have to??? TRust me it is a brutal process that I would only wish upon my worst enemy.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts too. In the scramble, you can't afford to be picky at all. You end up being grateful to get anything in the scramble, let alone anything not crappy. It's a last resort. At least making a rank list gives you some small bit of control.

 

[ShyRem]

The whole "you won't get a spot if you don't rotate here" is bunk. I matched to my #1 choice without rotating there. Never even rotated in the state actually.

But I wouldn't want to scramble if I didn't have to. Talk about stressful. And there are programs that won't take a scramble candidate. Ever. You're better off applying in the specialty you want and then scrambling if need be.

However, if at this point you have already applied for, say, OBGyn and now have figured out you absolutely HATE OBGyn, just don't rank programs. Cancel your remaining interviews and don't rank anything. And take your chances at the scramble. But you may not like what you end up with. Most reasonable/good programs will be full.

 

[fergustsi]

i think what the op means is foregoing the DO match. going into the acgme match, if he/she fails to match try to scramble into something into their chosen field in the acgme scramble. if unable to secure there, then pursue AOA scramble options as a last resort.

to participate in the AOA scramble im pretty sure you need to register with their matching service, NMS. fact check with your residency advisor at your home school.

Im registering with the NMS also as a just in case, heaven forbid i have to pick option 4 and scramble in the AOA.

 

[fergustsi]

The whole "you won't get a spot if you don't rotate here" is bunk. I matched to my #1 choice without rotating there. Never even rotated in the state actually.

But I wouldn't want to scramble if I didn't have to. Talk about stressful. And there are programs that won't take a scramble candidate. Ever. You're better off applying in the specialty you want and then scrambling if need be.

However, if at this point you have already applied for, say, OBGyn and now have figured out you absolutely HATE OBGyn, just don't rank programs. Cancel your remaining interviews and don't rank anything. And take your chances at the scramble. But you may not like what you end up with. Most reasonable/good programs will be full.

a lot , not all, of AOA programs are notorious for this mentality sadly. and its not they wont take you, they wont even interview you.
are you a DO?

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

The whole "you won't get a spot if you don't rotate here" is bunk. I matched to my #1 choice without rotating there. Never even rotated in the state actually.

But I wouldn't want to scramble if I didn't have to. Talk about stressful. And there are programs that won't take a scramble candidate. Ever. You're better off applying in the specialty you want and then scrambling if need be.

However, if at this point you have already applied for, say, OBGyn and now have figured out you absolutely HATE OBGyn, just don't rank programs. Cancel your remaining interviews and don't rank anything. And take your chances at the scramble. But you may not like what you end up with. Most reasonable/good programs will be full.

FM/Peds/IM doesn't count ... fact-check yourself there.

 

[chrisv]

Does anyone know if there's a published list of unfilled osteopathic residency spots? I know that you can find that out for the allopathic spots, but I'm curious about the osteopathic ones. At the NMS websites, it tell you within each specialty, how many spots were matched vs. unmatched but it doesn't tell you which program those unmatched spots belong to.
thanks in advance!

 

[tkim]

FM/Peds/IM doesn't count ... fact-check yourself there.

Multiple interviews for EM DO programs that I never rotated at. Fact.

 

[fergustsi]

Does anyone know if there's a published list of unfilled osteopathic residency spots? I know that you can find that out for the allopathic spots, but I'm curious about the osteopathic ones. At the NMS websites, it tell you within each specialty, how many spots were matched vs. unmatched but it doesn't tell you which program those unmatched spots belong to.
thanks in advance!

opportunities.osteopathic.org

not right now, but after the match mid february, they will post a link with an excel spreadsheet somewhere in the bottom small print. the spreadsheet has all the programs that have empty spots.

 

[fergustsi]

Multiple interviews for EM DO programs that I never rotated at. Fact.

yes, i did too. but its not always the norm.

 

[chrisv]

opportunities.osteopathic.org

not right now, but after the match mid february, they will post a link with an excel spreadsheet somewhere in the bottom small print. the spreadsheet has all the programs that have empty spots.

Is the spread sheet from last year still on the website? If so, where? If its not on the website, then have people from the past downloaded it please post it here?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Multiple interviews for EM DO programs that I never rotated at. Fact.

Cool. It might be the minority. I've also heard from classmates receiving DO EM interviews at a few places that they didnt rotate through AND had a failed COMLEX score. It's probably b/c they never fill. I don't know ... but I'm glad you guys got in at places w/o filling ... most competitive locations AND specialties aren't quite like that. Plus, I imagine the programs are more competitive now than the were 5 years ago when there werent as many new schools either ...

 

[Akamu]

Anyone have any advice on how to play the match game with this whole DO vs allo thing? I'm afraid to rank anywhere I really don't wanna go in the DO match, and I don't want to ruin my chances at an allo spot i might love in case i dont match DO, but if I only rank four spots in the DO match am I being foolish? I'm interviewing for EM BTW

 

[tkim]

Anyone have any advice on how to play the match game with this whole DO vs allo thing? I'm afraid to rank anywhere I really don't wanna go in the DO match, and I don't want to ruin my chances at an allo spot i might love in case i dont match DO, but if I only rank four spots in the DO match am I being foolish? I'm interviewing for EM BTW

I would rank only your top DO choice, and only if it would have made it into your top three in a combined DO/MD match scenario.

 

[fergustsi]

I would rank only your top DO choice, and only if it would have made it into your top three in a combined DO/MD match scenario.

I received very similar advice make an absolute rank list with both programs combined, if a do program isn't in your top 3/4 then don't go into the aoa match. But if say you only have 3 or 4 acgme programs total and they all happen to be at the top of your list you may want to rethink that. Entering the acgme match with only a few programs ranked may be suicide.

 

[tkim]

I received very similar advice make an absolute rank list with both programs combined, if a do program isn't in your top 3/4 then don't go into the aoa match. But if say you only have 3 or 4 acgme programs total and they all happen to be at the top of your list you may want to rethink that. Entering the acgme match with only a few programs ranked may be suicide.

Well, yeah. If you don't have that 'magical' 10 MD interviews, then you statistically don't have enough interviews to get the 90+% match odds. If that's the case, you need to think pretty hard about doing the DO match.

When I interviewed, I had a couple of DO interviews, and less than ten MD interviews. My number one DO place sent me a 'ranked to match' email - that means more in the DO world than it does in the MD.

Was sweating until a couple more MD interviews rolled in and I was above 10. I made the hard decision to skip the DO match. I matched in my #3. Funny thing is, that except for the extra year DO EM residencies require, it would easily have been my #2 in a combined match. *shrug*

 

[Marianne11]

Well, yeah. If you don't have that 'magical' 10 MD interviews, then you statistically don't have enough interviews to get the 90+% match odds. If that's the case, you need to think pretty hard about doing the DO match.

What if 4 MD programs of the 8 are lower tier? How late did you pick up those extra interviews? A few programs have said they rank everyone that interviews..so if you pick them #1...unless 25 out of the 200 interviewees also said #1 and were above you, wouldn't the computer select you? I did not register for the DO match, I'm getting worried now.

 

[fergustsi]

What if 4 MD programs of the 8 are lower tier? How late did you pick up those extra interviews? A few programs have said they rank everyone that interviews..so if you pick them #1...unless 25 out of the 200 interviewees also said #1 and were above you, wouldn't the computer select you? I did not register for the DO match, I'm getting worried now.

actually you dont need 25 others to rank the hospital #1 and be ranked higher than you. you just need 25 others the hospital ranked higher than you to slip down their own ROL to wherever they ranked that hospital.
you could have 25 people that the hospital ranked above you and it be their #2,5,6 etc., meanwhile you were ranked below them and you ranked them #1 but youll still have to scramble.

i dont think its too late to register for the aoa match, it may be too late to get an interview offer if you dont have them already.

from the NMS website:
JANUARY 28, 2011
Final date for submission of student and program Rank Order Lists. No Rank Order Lists or registrations for the Match can be accepted after this date.Cost is 60 bucks, no late fee.