DDS and MD degree

[DDSBound]

Yep, I'm new to the forum. I am very interested in possibly going for both a DDS (already accepted to a program) and an MD degree. What schools offer a joint DDS/MD degree? How long does it take to get them both? 8 years? or if you have a DDS are some years knocked off of med school? If I go through Dental school will I still have to take the MCAT? Lastly, if I did not apply to an MD program, and don't want to for another 2 years+, is that possible to do at that point? I have to know because I'm really interested in doing this. Thnx! I think it would make me better qualified, more respected and it would be more lucrative.

Oh, and I don't want to do oral surgery!

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[Denticized]

This question has been answered before but basically you have to be one in a million to get into the Case Western MD/DDs degree which is a 5-year program and no you don't have to become an oral surgeon.

 

[prez_al]

How exactly does having a MD with a DDS make you more lucrative? It would probably give you a better background to be a MD as you will know EVERYTHING that has to do with the human body.

 

[INFNITE]

pick one and work harder at it instead of picking both and do mediocre job at them

 

[DDSBound]

It doesn't matter what people tell me to do... I want to do both DDS and MD. The question is the path to take. I see a bunch of schools that say on the dental fact sheet they also have an MD program. All I want to know is how many years I will have to go after obtaining my DDS if I don't want to do oral surgery. That's it! If no one can answer that directly, I'll keep trying to figure out my own answer. Thanks though for trying. I'm not putting down people with only a DDS degree. I just think I know what I need to do for myself.

 

[pmantz]

Why don't you ask an expert rather then people on SDN.

Did you know that if you have DDS, you are a doctor who cares for patients.
When is a degree about prestige, (I know there is some) but come on, I never met a person and thought oh they don't have an MD, they would be better off if they did. My physician wishes he would have chose dental over medicine. Almost every profesional I know(dentists,professors,doctors) reiterate what a great decision dentistry is.

Why both, doesn't make sence, if you want an MD so bad why didn't you apply to medical school.


I am excited to be a DDS and have friends who don't understand why I chose Dental over medical. I see dentistry is medicine, its just a specialty, their was no choice. I just got the chance to pick my specialty before my graduate education.

 

[BuckeyeDDS]

All I want to know is how many years I will have to go after obtaining my DDS if I don't want to do oral surgery.

Most likely answer: Take the MCAT and go to 4 years of med school. Then you'll have your MD degree. My question is what are you going to then practice, medicine or dentistry? You're still going to have to pick one.

 

[1992Corolla]

It doesn't matter what people tell me to do...

And there lies your problem...good luck with your career endeavors.

 

[Drill2Fill]

If you don't plan on being a oral surgeon, why do you want the MD?

 

[wizziefiend]

I'd say it's a ten year path. Both degrees require logic and critical thinking skills to complete. And well, so far you have not demonstrated such. So they'd probably hold ya back every once in awhile.

But, I know of a student who did take the MCAT, did amazing but rejected her spots at tops schools...she wanted to become a dentist. The dental schools took her 99th percentile on the MCAT and accepted her...she just had to take the DAT prior to matriculation so they could put her number into their averages. I'd be willing to bet every med school would require the MCAT or they'd use your dental board score.

Best of luck. And I wouldn't be suprised if patients thought you were a better dentist because of the MD. Seriously...lots of people think MD=god. But if you want lucrative, I'd say study harder in dental school, specialize, then work real hard establishing your practice and keeping your patients happy. You'll be golden.

 

[armorshell]

It doesn't matter what people tell me to do...

Probably not the best attitude to be going into dental school with.

"SCREW YOU professor man! I'll drill WHAT I want, WHEN I want, HOW I want"

 

[DDSBound]

OK... I didn't mean I think I know everything and I am unwilling to learn what people in the profession have to tell me or even in this forum if it is quality. I was just asking a simple question that has yet to be answered. I want to practice dentistry. I want an MD and a DDS degree for the heck of it (the reason doesn't matter). I just want a simple... "it will take 4 yrs to get an MD degree after your DDS unless you go into Oral Surgery"... or "it will take 2 additional years to get your MD degree." If you don't know the answer, it is OK! I thought this was going to be simple. I didn't want everyone to get so defensive.

 

[DDSBound]

I'd say it's a ten year path. Both degrees require logic and critical thinking skills to complete. And well, so far you have not demonstrated such. So they'd probably hold ya back every once in awhile.

But, I know of a student who did take the MCAT, did amazing but rejected her spots at tops schools...she wanted to become a dentist. The dental schools took her 99th percentile on the MCAT and accepted her...she just had to take the DAT prior to matriculation so they could put her number into their averages. I'd be willing to bet every med school would require the MCAT or they'd use your dental board score.

Best of luck. And I wouldn't be suprised if patients thought you were a better dentist because of the MD. Seriously...lots of people think MD=god. But if you want lucrative, I'd say study harder in dental school, specialize, then work real hard establishing your practice and keeping your patients happy. You'll be golden.

You were directly offended by question. I'm sorry for that but you shouldn't let people have such a big effect on you. Oh and of course you are right...because in posts on here you can sure tell how much logic and problem solving skills one has. I don't know that I have ever been so impressed with someone's "skills" as I am with yours.

 

[soswank]

OK... I didn't mean I think I know everything and I am unwilling to learn what people in the profession have to tell me or even in this forum if it is quality. I was just asking a simple question that has yet to be answered. I want to practice dentistry. I want an MD and a DDS degree for the heck of it (the reason doesn't matter). I just want a simple... "it will take 4 yrs to get an MD degree after your DDS unless you go into Oral Surgery"... or "it will take 2 additional years to get your MD degree." If you don't know the answer, it is OK! I thought this was going to be simple. I didn't want everyone to get so defensive.

I think people are getting defensive, because you seem to have an attitude about your self. If you are not willing to share your information, what makes you think people will share their information with you "for the heck of it". Give respect, and you will get respect.


And to answer your question, in order to do MD after DDS/DMD, it takes 4 years extra once you get accepted, and then residency.

 

[Jaybe]

OK... I didn't mean I think I know everything and I am unwilling to learn what people in the profession have to tell me or even in this forum if it is quality. I was just asking a simple question that has yet to be answered. I want to practice dentistry. I want an MD and a DDS degree for the heck of it (the reason doesn't matter). I just want a simple... "it will take 4 yrs to get an MD degree after your DDS unless you go into Oral Surgery"... or "it will take 2 additional years to get your MD degree." If you don't know the answer, it is OK! I thought this was going to be simple. I didn't want everyone to get so defensive.

I must start by saying that I generally support people who have a quest for knowledge, in general. However, in your case, you seem to have no discernable reason for pursuing an MD in addition to your DDS.

So you are stupid. Period. No one is getting defensive here, they are just pointing out your idiocy.

 

[SugarNaCl]

Wow... LOL. This post is getting pretty nasty. I don't know the answer to this and I was actually curious too. I posted something similar a couple of days ago, but personally... I don't want my MD, nor do I have my heart set on oral surgery right now but the most I can tell you from what I have learned is that the shortest well-known tracks to doing this is going to get your DDS then 4 years of MD or heading into a 4 yr OMS residency even if you don't want to be an oral surgeon. Some schools award you your MD after you finish the 4 years and some allow you the option of an additional 2 yr MD program after. I'm not sure of a clearer cut answer. I wish I knew too... if you want to go about this, you will probably have to email U Penn dent and med both and compare their answers. Good luck.

 

[armorshell]

If you really need an MD, and don't even plan to use it, just find some degree mill in Colombia and have them print you one off.

You can even tell people you got your degree from Colombia Medical School

 

[Jaybe]

Wow... LOL. This post is getting pretty nasty. I don't know the answer to this and I was actually curious too. I posted something similar a couple of days ago, but personally... I don't want my MD, nor do I have my heart set on oral surgery right now but the most I can tell you from what I have learned is that the shortest well-known tracks to doing this is going to get your DDS then 4 years of MD or heading into a 4 yr OMS residency even if you don't want to be an oral surgeon. Some schools award you your MD after you finish the 4 years and some allow you the option of an additional 2 yr MD program after. I'm not sure of a clearer cut answer. I wish I knew too... if you want to go about this, you will probably have to email U Penn dent and med both and compare their answers. Good luck.

Sorry, but this idea is so stupid, i have to wish the OP, "Bad Luck".

 

[SugarNaCl]

Sorry, but this idea is so stupid, i have to wish the OP, "Bad Luck".

Jaybe. I was trying to be nice to hope to convert the post. I agree it doesn't make much sense but we can't control how others think. Maybe he thinks mommy and daddy will respect him/her more. You never know what the emotional/physical reasons are behind people's motives and most of them would never admit them to anyone anyway. As a matter of fact, if asked directly about them, they would probably lie. It's sad, but true. To a degree we may all be like that.

 

[KingChris]

As far as I know you have to go six years of residency in OMFS or apply to med school afterwards, or apply to med school after dental school and have a good reason as to why you got your DDS and want to spend another 250k to get an MD (and not really utilize it). However, my girlfriends father, a graduate of UPenn dental was offered the chance to spend 6 additional months after graduation to receive his MD. He opted not to do it as he did not see the added benefit and really was ready to finally enter the profession after four long years of school.
IMHO I think dental schools such as UPENN, Harvard, Columbia, UConn, and many others are incorporating so much overall medical knowledge in the curriculum (especially those that combine med and dents in years 1 and 2) that there is virtually no added benefit to getting an MD, as you will already have much of the knowledge of that of a physician. I do not mean to offend you in any way or question your intelligence, but I think if you truly want some honest advice on this matter you must first be willing to tell us why you in fact want the M.D. and how you think it will contribute to your success as a dentist. Is it that you want to be a dentist or a physician? You applied to dental school, so why are you disatisfied with receiving a DDS? Patients typically go to an MD when they have a systemic ailment that needs treatment, not to an MD/DMD who pratices dentistry. You will rarely use the additional knowledge acquired by getting an MD as a dentist, and that sure is a lot of extra work, money, and time to get an MD simply for prestige.
I think the problem is that up until this point many of us have viewed success by how many things we can put on our resume, but now is the time to mature in our way of thinking and realize that we are going to become a doctor and that is truly the peak of the success we have all been striving for, it doesn't matter anymore how many things we do or how many degrees we get. We don't have to impress an adcom anymore...ever. Now we get to hone in on our skills and become a service to our communtiy.

 

[Critical Mass]

If you really need an MD, and don't even plan to use it, just find some degree mill in Colombia and have them print you one off.

You can even tell people you got your degree from Colombia Medical School

I hear that they have good fellowships in pain management there.

 

[gryffindor]

The answer is simple. You go to dental school and get your DDS. Then you have this desire to earn your MD just because you want to, no real reason. So you take the MCAT and apply to MD programs. You time it so you can start the med school right after you graduate from dental school. If you want a shortcut, it would probably have to be arranged on an individual basis with the school. You might have a better chance at a shortcut if you attended a dental school where they take the same exact basic science courses with the med students, and then get into the med school at the same institution and see if they will give you any waivers. Although you will need a reason for why you want to go to med school because they will ask you at your MD interview why you want to start over in med school since you already have your DDS. It's not like undergrad where they just blindly accept their applicants based on numbers without an interview. Medical schools make you interview to see why you want to earn your MD, so that's probably why everyone is giving you a hard time.

 

[goosestuff]

I hear that they have good fellowships in pain management there.

nice.

 

[aphistis]

nice.

The remark or the picture? Both are pretty good if you ask me.

 

[1992Corolla]

As of yet there are no dual MD/DDS(DMD) degrees. Case offers one, but remember, it is called Just in Case Western (Trolling , any biters?) for a reason.

Your serious answer would be pursue your dental degree for four years and then pursue the MD for four years + residency. By this time you should be well into your forties kicking back on over half a million in debt.

You could always do a six year OS residency and then practice dentistry, after all it would be the more lucrative way to go

 

[DDSBound]

Here it is. The true reason why I want a degree in both medicine and dentistry is I do not subscribe to the idea that MDs know enough about dentistry to treat their patients for dental issues... nor do I feel that a DDS will come out having enough background in general medicine to treat their patients the best they can. The only solution I see, for me to become the best possible dentist is to understand BOTH the oral aspects AND the systemic aspects. I'm very interested in research and I think it will help there too. If in fact I have to go to dental school for 4 years, one year residency and then go through medical school for another 4 years, I suppose I will do that. I was just wondering if I could knock a year or so off with similar courses. I wouldn't have to do a residency for the medical aspect because I don't plan on practicing traditional medicine. I plan on practicing dentistry. Sorry if there were any hard feelings. I was trying to spare the long explanation yesterday by just seeking an answer. Maybe this was a better approach. Thanks.

 

[gryffindor]

Here it is. The true reason why I want a degree in both medicine and dentistry is I do not subscribe to the idea that MDs know enough about dentistry to treat their patients for dental issues... nor do I feel that a DDS will come out having enough background in general medicine to treat their patients the best they can. The only solution I see, for me to become the best possible dentist is to understand BOTH the oral aspects AND the systemic aspects. I'm very interested in research and I think it will help there too. If in fact I have to go to dental school for 4 years, one year residency and then go through medical school for another 4 years, I suppose I will do that. I was just wondering if I could knock a year or so off with similar courses. I wouldn't have to do a residency for the medical aspect because I don't plan on practicing traditional medicine. I plan on practicing dentistry. Sorry if there were any hard feelings. I was trying to spare the long explanation yesterday by just seeking an answer. Maybe this was a better approach. Thanks.

Your solution isn't a good one because as a pre-dent, you don't know enough about medicine or dentistry at this point to make those assumptions. If your goal is to be a dentist who is well versed in systemic aspects, then there are more practical options than doing a 4 year MD. A 4 oral surgery residency will definitely make you an expert at medical aspects that relate to dentistry such as managing systemic illness to do dental procedures, anesthesia for sedation for dental procedures, trauma, surgery, etc. A 6 year OMS residency will do all that and get you the MD. This is a much better use of your 4 years if you want to be a better dentist rather than doing regular med school. A residency in Oral Medicine (2 or 3 years, I think) will also make you very familiar with systemic conditions and how they manifest orally and how to manage them (lupus, skin and mucosal conditions, Sjogren's, etc). There is also a lot of areas in Oral Medicine to puruse research. You can browse the NIDCR website for a better idea of the fields of oral medicine research.

There are even a lot of good GPRs that deal with a lot of medically compromised patients and require you to be well versed in treating these patients and in anesthesia as well. You can do 1 or 2 years in a GPR and get broader training in these things.

Doing a regular MD isn't going to make you a better dentist. They take the same basic science classes as us in the first 2 years, and their physical diagnosis classes won't help you in dentistry. Doing rotations in OB/GYN in your 3rd year won't make you a better dentist either, just ask the oral surgery residents.

 

[aphistis]

Here it is. The true reason why I want a degree in both medicine and dentistry is I do not subscribe to the idea that MDs know enough about dentistry to treat their patients for dental issues... nor do I feel that a DDS will come out having enough background in general medicine to treat their patients the best they can. The only solution I see, for me to become the best possible dentist is to understand BOTH the oral aspects AND the systemic aspects. I'm very interested in research and I think it will help there too. If in fact I have to go to dental school for 4 years, one year residency and then go through medical school for another 4 years, I suppose I will do that. I was just wondering if I could knock a year or so off with similar courses. I wouldn't have to do a residency for the medical aspect because I don't plan on practicing traditional medicine. I plan on practicing dentistry. Sorry if there were any hard feelings. I was trying to spare the long explanation yesterday by just seeking an answer. Maybe this was a better approach. Thanks.

I understand your position and I respect your desire to do learn as much as possible in order to best treat your patients, but you're jumping the gun a little, and making some unnecessary assumptions.

If you want more training in the medical side of dentistry after graduating from dental school, you can do OMS or oral pathology (recognized specialties), or do a good GPR or an oral medicine fellowship and practice as a general dentist.

You might be surprised how much you learn in dental school. You won't learn enough medicine to be a physician, but you'll be taught enough to properly manage your medically compromised patients as a dentist.

 

[Drill2Fill]

Here it is. The true reason why I want a degree in both medicine and dentistry is I do not subscribe to the idea that MDs know enough about dentistry to treat their patients for dental issues... nor do I feel that a DDS will come out having enough background in general medicine to treat their patients the best they can. The only solution I see, for me to become the best possible dentist is to understand BOTH the oral aspects AND the systemic aspects. I'm very interested in research and I think it will help there too. If in fact I have to go to dental school for 4 years, one year residency and then go through medical school for another 4 years, I suppose I will do that. I was just wondering if I could knock a year or so off with similar courses. I wouldn't have to do a residency for the medical aspect because I don't plan on practicing traditional medicine. I plan on practicing dentistry. Sorry if there were any hard feelings. I was trying to spare the long explanation yesterday by just seeking an answer. Maybe this was a better approach. Thanks.

Lol. you say this without taking a single dental or medical school course.

 

[goosestuff]

DDSBound...as much as it sucks that no one agrees with you, listen to (at least) aphistis, and others who have more experience.

Here's my unbiased answer: There is no easy way/shortcut, because there isn't too much precendence for a dentist who wants to be a MD but not OMFS. So after 4 yrs at DS, you decide you wanna go to MS, apply...do your thing. Maybe it's overkill to the rest of us, but, who cares?

You are already accepted for next year, right? Does your school also have a MS? Call them up, and ask if there are any options.

Luckily, you don't have to make any decisions now, assuming that since you are already in, any info you find out now wouldn't change where you'll be for the next 4 years. I'm sure things will become clear to you once you are in the thick of it (DS).

 

[gryffindor]

If you want more training in the medical side of dentistry after graduating from dental school, you can do OMS or oral pathology (recognized specialties), or do a good GPR or an oral medicine fellowship and practice as a general dentist.

Just to clarify my post, Oral Surgery and Oral Pathology are 2 recognized specialties. Oral Medicine is different from Oral Pathology and while it's not a "recognized" specialty, there is advanced training in this field (a residency or fellowship, whatever you want to call it). They have their own academy, just like the Dental Anesthesiologists, another "unrecognized" specialty with advanced training residency or fellowships.

 

[1992Corolla]

To best treat your patients as a dentist then pay attention in your anatomical science and medicine classes in dental school. You take all the same core classes as an MD, you just get a different license because your focus is in a different area of the body. Biochem, Histology, Neuro, Anatomy, Physio, and more are all taught (at least here) by the same professors who teach the MD's.

There are also other great reference books to study up on after dental school (or during) that will make you a great clinician who knows the ins and outs of treating your health compromised patients while they are in your dental chair.

In the end you can go your own route, and go from point A to B like everyone else, all we are trying to say is there are better options on which route to take.

Look into GPR's or even better do an internship in OMFS (if you don't want to do OMFS - do a one year internship - still need decent grades) and get some hospital based dentistry/trauma, etc. from that experiance.

 

[FamilyMD]

My physician wishes he would have chose dental over medicine. Almost every profesional I know(dentists,professors,doctors) reiterate what a great decision dentistry is.

Dentistry is OK, but come on...EVERY professional you know tells you how great you are LOL for going to dental school . Did you blush typing this post? Make sure to take a course on modesty.

 

[reapply2007]

I agree with the professionals. My dentist says he wishes he would have gone to Dental School too.

 

[dmd2011]

The true reason why I want a degree in both medicine and dentistry is I do not subscribe to the idea that MDs know enough about dentistry to treat their patients for dental issues... nor do I feel that a DDS will come out having enough background in general medicine to treat their patients the best they can.

this is why ppl go to dentists for "dental issues" and go to MDs for everything else. if you really want to practice dentistry then you dont need that MD degree to be a good dentist.

 

[diagnodent]

Since I've graduated from dental school I went on to get my MD and then did a residency in Proctology because I thought that dental school didn't teach me enough about all the orifices in the body.

 

[dizzle23x]

i was volunteering at a d-school and met a student who was already had their MD and was on their way to getting their dental degree. he wants to move to a small rural town where he can be the only local dentist AND "doctor" (in quotes cause i know dentists are doctors too..) but yeah, it's 8 years w/o residency factored in and a lot of debt

 

[Drill2Fill]

Since I've graduated from dental school I went on to get my MD and then did a residency in Proctology because I thought that dental school didn't teach me enough about all the orifices in the body.

 

[dmd2011]

this thread is going downhill fast.

 

[Fuji]

In an effort to revive this thread: What are the legal rules about practicing with an MD and a DDS? Are you limited to one profession or the other, or can you practice as both?

 

[Drill2Fill]

I don't know how much economical sense it would make to seperate your time in each field, but i don't see how anyone could stop you if you where board certified in both.

 

[dmd2011]

as a patient, i wouldnt want to go to some physician/dentist one stop shop for all your healthcare needs. dentistry and medicine are two different fields and i just dont think a person could be good at either trying to do both.

 

[shabu2]

as a patient, i wouldnt want to go to some physician/dentist one stop shop for all your healthcare needs. dentistry and medicine are two different fields and i just dont think a person could be good at either trying to do both.

omg, this thread is out of control. Some of the posts are so wacked

 

[dmd2011]

are you saying my post is wack? all im saying is that the OP doesnt need an MD to be a good dentist.

 

[Drill2Fill]

I think he was being sarcastic. I think.

 

[caregood]

did you get accepted to UPENN already?

 

[goosestuff]

did you get accepted to UPENN already?

I would that a "UPENN SDM Class of 2011" in the signature would imply yes

 

[DDSBound]

did you get accepted to UPENN already?

Yep.

 

[aphistis]

In an effort to revive this thread: What are the legal rules about practicing with an MD and a DDS? Are you limited to one profession or the other, or can you practice as both?

Depends on your licensing as much as on your degrees. If you have the medical license, you can practice medicine. If you have the dental license, you can practice dentistry. If you have both, you can practice both.

 

[shabu2]

Depends on your licensing as much as on your degrees. If you have the medical license, you can practice medicine. If you have the dental license, you can practice dentistry. If you have both, you can practice both.

Just to add.....you can only practice within the limits specified by your specialty and scope of training. OB/GYN will not do derm procedures, etc