Individually, Samac yelling at fruit to self prez in game thread, sure, I could see that just being samac being samac
Individually, PSV yelling at fruit in game thread, no read on whether that's the norm for her.
Together, now being in F5 with YOLO in place, both samac and PSV one right after the other screaming at fruit to self prez right before he gets flipped as a wolf isn't damning, but it's pretty far from clearing in my mind.
Blah. I mean yes, sure. That doesn't make much sense from a w!samac world, but given nothing makes much sense this game, I can't just clear you for it.
If you're village though you really need to get off this SAR train. You asked me to comb. I combed.
I know I'm not paired with rae. I feel as strongly rae is village as you do SAR.
So even if it is PSV we're going to do this same song and dance and go to F3 with you and SAR yeeting rae and then me getting yeeted because you're convinced SAR is village.
We are too divided of a village and that is ironic given the blocc.
Individually, Samac yelling at fruit to self prez in game thread, sure, I could see that just being samac being samac
Individually, PSV yelling at fruit in game thread, no read on whether that's the norm for her.
Together, now being in F5 with YOLO in place, both samac and PSV one right after the other screaming at fruit to self prez right before he gets flipped as a wolf isn't damning, but it's pretty far from clearing in my mind.
I am not paired with PSV. PSV put me in a tie last night at the last minute to potentially go over prior to yolo.
No reason for a wolf to send their wolf partner over.
I know I'm not paired with rae. I feel as strongly rae is village as you do SAR.
So even if it is PSV we're going to do this same song and dance and go to F3 with you and SAR yeeting rae and then me getting yeeted because you're convinced SAR is village.
We are too divided of a village and that is ironic given the blocc.
Did you even read my posts? Because I am open to a discussion but I just spent like three hours going through SAR's posts, again, and I have not seen a single objective counterargument or reason to say she's a wolf.
Did you even read my posts? Because I am open to a discussion but I just spent like three hours going through SAR's posts, again, and I have not seen a single objective counterargument or reason to say she's a wolf.
Which again, is giving me flashbacks to last game where I spent a heck of a lot of time on rereading Zenge and had vampy and mkg deciding to vote there without engaging with the posts, so it's not exactly a convincing argument.
A SAR Investigation Part 1: Interactions with Known Wolves
Subsection A: Stagg/SAR
I didn't find direct interactions between them, but I still think her joining the Stagg vote at the time she did looks pretty good (breaking the tie towards him in particular)
Other than myself, I believe SAR has the strongest Stagg unpartnering argument of anyone left in the game.
And this post from Stagg makes me think he actually wanted/thought he would have had time to play after D1, so I just doubt a packmate decides to make that pivotal vote and not give him more time to engage.
These were the only reads Stagg gave before voting April. If I were to get paranoid about anything I think it would be this (rule of three!!), but given the threadstate at the time this could also have easily been a collection of three villagers dropped for confusion/anti-spew purposes.
Overall SAR's treatment of Stagg is a strong village lean, with a little room for paranoia
Stagg interactions were minimal at best and 3rd vote on Stagg. He was busy with work and may have known he'd not have time to wolf. Nothing with Stagg is clearing. The fruit interactions are better.
A SAR Investigation Part 1: Interactions with Known Wolves
Subsection B: fruit/SAR
Early stuff is meh, but fruit initially treating rae and SAR exactly the same is kind of interesting. Off the cuff I think it is likely they aren't both his partners, though from my perspective one of them must be since PSV/samac doesn't make sense as a pairing.
SAR doesn't really say anything useful about fruit early on either.
Later rae moves into fruit's village reads but SAR is still in neutral. Also thought it was funny that he still had Stagg in neutral here despite yelling just a few posts prior that he was village?? That's not important now but made me chuckle.
This is kind of indirectly related, but earlier I think samac brought up and I agreed that it would be odd for fruit to bring attention to the Stagg wagon if there was a bus, but it does seem that he did in fact do that since SAR, rae, and samac are all there. Stagg (7) - SAR, rae, Indy, Dubz, samac, JJJ, Zenge
SAR and I had a short fruit discussion on D2. She didn't really go anywhere with it so it's more nothingness.
(I provided some quotes)
Mentally putting a pin on this to see if she followed up on it in her later fruit case.
I am reading interactions with more skepticism after this point because once fruit says this:
He is clearly in damage control mode. I won't throw everything out because I do think with this game setup it would still be so damaging to lose another wolf unnecessarily, but 1) less damaging than if they started with 3 and 2) it would be silly not to set up some evidence of clearance for the remaining two when fruit was under such heavy suspicion, especially in a setup where the cleared villagers can't be killed easily.
And because of that, this interaction is less meaningful in full context. It would be a pretty easy one to manufacture, there's not much push or emotion there, it is overall just kind of...there.
(this isn't a rule of threes thing, as a reminder, these were the yeet options that day)
She doesn't mention fruit by name here which is a little odd? This is indirect fruit shading since he was one of the people pushing the Clem/Zenge difference check. But it's also indirect Jay shading (and maybe others, I can't remember who else was on that train).
D3 SAR and rae hanging out together in neutrals again, rae later moves back up to green. SAR was in fruit's neutrals for...literally the entire time he was alive, which isn't a great look for her.
D4, by this point fruit is on the docket and despite what Zenge insisted he was very much in a lot of people's wolf reads and in danger of being voted out, so I would expect shenanigans to ensue. Treading carefully with village points here.
Noting for completeness but not strong enough in either direction to move the needle. If he was trying to distance from SAR idk why he would turn around and be like "nah nvm" so quickly though.
And SAR still in neutrals
This isn't a direct interaction with fruit but is a contextual one of sorts. This post is I think one of the strongest cases for v!SAR outside of the Stagg/Jay tie break, and I think even stronger than her later case on fruit (that one is good but given timing and threadstate I would not be shocked about a wolf making a similar post, we'll get there though).
Knowing now that indy and genny were both village, it is obvious that the pack was looking to still get the indy misyeet if fruit went over - that would explain him not voting for indy etc etc. It therefore would be so counterproductive for SAR to make a post so strongly in indy's favor. You just can't walk a stance like this back, especially knowing fruit is going to flip wolf if he goes over. Now it turns out everyone mostly ignored her thoughts here and ended up speedrunning indy after the fruit flip anyway, but she wouldn't have known that this post wouldn't impact people's reads.
Next up SAR does her fruit push, including a vote that ties him with indy.
I don't think it's impossible for a wolf partner to make this post. It doesn't feel like w!SAR posting to me, but that's nebulous and I know won't mean much to anyone else. I will temper the points I give here for the aforementioned threadstate reasons.
She did in fact bring up the Zenge/Clem difference check that she had mentioned before, looks good that she didn't drop that train of thought. Overall these points are good, if it had occurred earlier in the game or even earlier in the day I would give it a strong village lean (at the time it felt like it confirmed my village read on her tbh), but given context now I will keep that more mild.
I also went on a side quest to look through SAR's posts from the champs practice game since it has been quite a while since I've played with w!SAR, and I just don't see anything like this level of effort in there. She did put both of her partners as wolf in her GTH reads and voted for mayo (but moved off) d1 so I get the paranoia people have there, but there wasn't this amount of pushing them and clearing their counters with like, pulling quotes and giving strong evidence. I wouldn't expect her to bus more and harder this game given the number of misyeets wolves need to win here increases more with every wolf death because of the lack of nightkills. The only time she ended the day on a wolf partner that game was when Zenge had his fake red check on mayo and flipped village.
I also looked for ISOs from her in that game and only found...one, and otherwise a lot of mentions of her doing ISOs but not actually showing her work
- on Dina (village), who she ended up hedgey on and later was asking for particular people's thoughts on Dina, which felt a bit like she was looking for permission to push there.
Very different imo than the ones here that I quoted above and the earlier one on Zenge where she provided more evidence and gave more solid stances. I don't see that level of hedge and outsourcing in her ISOs in this game that she had there.
Overall, direct interactions between SAR and fruit are neutral, fruit's treatment of SAR gives her mild wolf points, and SAR's clearing of indy while casing fruit combine for a slight village lean.
As a side meta note, her efforts in this game compared to her most recent wolf outing give her another village point.
So the interactions with fruit aren't clearing, but village lean and the most clearing is her treatment of Stagg?
This is different from Zenges tho. There are 2 wolves left, not 1. Numbers wise I am looking at a pool of 4 people.
Dubz plz.
I also want you to look at this from my perspective where I'm at.
I know I'm village,
I'm 99% sure rae is village. She is also unpaired from PSV in my opinion.
I'm pretty confident you have been too unless there is some whacky with 2 packs.
This leaves me with 2 wolves.
And PSV and SAR.
SAR could fit a second bizzaro world and the flip could tell me if we're in a bizarro world.
I guess we can work in normal land and flip PSV, but she flips wolf you and I are going to dance around SAR next chance we get. and I will be voting her then.
I know rae has been side-eyeing samac recently though so I would need to look back at if that actually unpartners them or if it could be intentional distancing since samac has been getting at least some pressure since...well, at least since that fight with DVMD.
Sure, I could tell a packmate to sit on me when I don't think I'm going over.
But why would I antagonize you to put myself in a tie the night before yolo when I could have kept my mouth shut and you would have likely ended on genny? Why would I do that?
Why in the world would she want the nooblet to be the last wolf standing? That's a huge risk to take, and not one I would be keen on agreeing to if I was a wolf in the first place.
I guess we can work in normal land and flip PSV, but she flips wolf you and I are going to dance around SAR next chance we get. and I will be voting her then.
You know, I get that you've essentially pre-flipped me and had since yesterday. But you're talking as if Dubz is the only person whose vote matters to you, which is both suspicious and frustrating.
If you vote me and you're village, you lose. But you've consistently tried to get Dubz to agree to vote me as some sort of compromise despite Dubz saying she doesn't believe it's me.
Why in the world would she want the nooblet to be the last wolf standing? That's a huge risk to take, and not one I would be keen on agreeing to if I was a wolf in the first place.
I would push my nooblet to carry the win if I could.
But I would not put myself over on a nooblet who mind you I know you're busy didn't make the post miniumum last cycle.
You know, I get that you've essentially pre-flipped me and had since yesterday. But you're talking as if Dubz is the only person whose vote matters to you, which is both suspicious and frustrating.
If you vote me and you're village, you lose. But you've consistently tried to get Dubz to agree to vote me as some sort of compromise despite Dubz saying she doesn't believe it's me.
PRE-FLIPPED YOU
LIKE I WAS MAKING AN ARGUEMENT FOR A WORLD I COULD BE WRONG AND YOU COULD BE VILLAGE
IF BIZZARO WORLD ISN'T REAL I KNOW YOU'RE A WOLF THO
HANDS DOWN
I'm not cut out for this.
With rae who's village looking at me
and with PSV or DUbz being village and looking at me it's over.
Just vote me and hand it to the wolves.
I do want to point out no one has jumped on my SAR vote to try and hammer her.
I also want you to look at this from my perspective where I'm at.
I know I'm village,
I'm 99% sure rae is village. She is also unpaired from PSV in my opinion.
I'm pretty confident you have been too unless there is some whacky with 2 packs.
This leaves me with 2 wolves.
And PSV and SAR.
SAR could fit a second bizzaro world and the flip could tell me if we're in a bizarro world.
I guess we can work in normal land and flip PSV, but she flips wolf you and I are going to dance around SAR next chance we get. and I will be voting her then.
I don't understand you being so sure rae is village tbh. Like objectively idk how you reach 99%.
If I put my "samac is village" hat back on then it has to be her and PSV.
I am just really struggling with how hard you've been resisting me keeping my read on SAR at literally every opportunity. No matter what she does, no matter how many times I've told you that I've never misread her.
There were two wolves left when I was defending Zenge last game pls. It was just f6 instead of f5 and we were allowed to sleep.
Unless you're talking about something else?
That's my grading with timing and context. Like I said, I'm weighting fruit stuff less strongly because of the timing.
That is me trying to be cautious.
I don't understand you being so sure rae is village tbh. Like objectively idk how you reach 99%.
If I put my "samac is village" hat back on then it has to be her and PSV.
I am just really struggling with how hard you've been resisting me keeping my read on SAR at literally every opportunity. No matter what she does, no matter how many times I've told you that I've never misread her.
Because I feel confident in the nooblet and it's where I'm left.
I have not been able to clear SAR. I get what you're saying but I'm sorry, there isn't a world where she isn't a wolf given I know I'm village.
If it's not you it also has to be PSV.
PSV flips today and is wolf -> gives us 3 to chose from, i bet me you and rae.
We yeet rae because she can't be cleared.
I go to f3 with you and SAR.
Games over you're never voting SAR.
We've lost.
Wolves don't always do what's easy or logical. I'm not super interested in the "what-ifs".
I am struggling to see you village because you are willing to completely disregard Dubz's treatment of fruit and Stagg to pursue a two pack tinfoil. If there do wind up being two packs, okay, egg on my face I guess. But that is not the logical conclusion.
You're also consistently shutting down any discussion of Rae as a possible wolf, instead choosing to bring up the aforementioned tinfoil. The only discussion of Rae you've allowed is pertaining to SAR... and I assume you wouldn't consent to flipping Rae first, no?
You're also extremely pressed about Dubz voting with you. Which makes me think you're going for the villager most likely to vote another villager with you, and the other wolf can then hammer.
Look. If you're village, I apologize because this sucks. But I'm not going to apologize for following my own train of thought.
And while I requested someone to analyze Rae, all I got was samac saying she'd reviewed Rae's posts and couldn't see her as wolf. But there was no work being shown.
Wolves don't always do what's easy or logical. I'm not super interested in the "what-ifs".
I am struggling to see you village because you are willing to completely disregard Dubz's treatment of fruit and Stagg to pursue a two pack tinfoil. If there do wind up being two packs, okay, egg on my face I guess. But that is not the logical conclusion.
You're also consistently shutting down any discussion of Rae as a possible wolf, instead choosing to bring up the aforementioned tinfoil. The only discussion of Rae you've allowed is pertaining to SAR... and I assume you wouldn't consent to flipping Rae first, no?
You're also extremely pressed about Dubz voting with you. Which makes me think you're going for the villager most likely to vote another villager with you, and the other wolf can then hammer.
Look. If you're village, I apologize because this sucks. But I'm not going to apologize for following my own train of thought.
I absolutely do not consent to flipping rae today because she is a village noob pure baby. I'd rather be misyeeted than her.
I'm village. There is no world my play this game is wolfy. There is no world I put myself in danger of going over yesterday.
But it doesn't matter, game is over.
I'm pressed about getting rae and dubz to vote with me cause if we're village we have to be together.
Because I feel confident in the nooblet and it's where I'm left.
I have not been able to clear SAR. I get what you're saying but I'm sorry, there isn't a world where she isn't a wolf given I know I'm village.
If it's not you it also has to be PSV.
PSV flips today and is wolf -> gives us 3 to chose from, i bet me you and rae.
We yeet rae because she can't be cleared.
I go to f3 with you and SAR.
Games over you're never voting SAR.
We've lost.
Please stop pushing this narrative that I am just never voting whoever without reason or discussion or integrating new information. If PSV flipped wolf I would be reevaluating again and figuring out her most likely partner. If PSV flipped wolf I would have to reevaluate how fruit treats his packmates and how the pack treated each other in that context.
And while I requested someone to analyze Rae, all I got was samac saying she'd reviewed Rae's posts and couldn't see her as wolf. But there was no work being shown.
Please stop pushing this narrative that I am just never voting whoever without reason or discussion or integrating new information. If PSV flipped wolf I would be reevaluating again and figuring out her most likely partner. If PSV flipped wolf I would have to reevaluate how fruit treats his packmates and how the pack treated each other in that context.
I mean... There is an obvious explanation for that outside of the one you're pushing 🙃
I absolutely do not consent to flipping rae today because she is a village noob pure baby. I'd rather be misyeeted than her.
I'm village. There is no world my play this game is wolfy. There is no world I put myself in danger of going over yesterday.
But it doesn't matter, game is over.
I'm pressed about getting rae and dubz to vote with me cause if we're village we have to be together.
It's fine. I'll chalk this first misyeet up to wacky mechanics that breed insane levels of paranoia.
Can we go on and hammer me to end this game please?
I just am kinda done and don't want to fight a continued fight from 2 fronts with PSV and Dubz. At least one of you is village but we're never going to win this as village because we're not going to come to an agreement. I'd rather just go on and be done than do this all day.
I wish I could understand what world wolf!samac would put herself on the chopping block the day before unknown yolo to the villagers just because ???? when she could have just waited to start her push the next day
but ya know
we can't all get what we wish
