Debating withdrawing acceptance to pursue MD

[allinthehips]

Last spring I applied narrowly (6 DO, 6MD) with the idea that I wanted to pursue FM. Now I have worked in ortho for nearly a year and believe I have found my calling.

I have been accepted to several “top tier” DO programs (DMU,KCU,ATSU; deposit paid at DMU), however am considering withdrawing and applying broadly to MD programs this upcoming cycle. My interpretation of the AOA/ACGME merger is that DO grads hoping to pursue ortho will be fighting an even steeper uphill battle (programs opening up slots to MD grads, taking both boards, etc).

1) Would withdrawing burn future bridges in the DO world if I failed to be accepted MD? / Would a school accept again in the future after withdrawing?
2) Is there any way to defer matriculation a year and retain acceptance?
3) Am I interpreting the merger correctly?
4) WTH should I do?

Appreciate any and all feedback!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

Why do you think that you will be attractive to MD schools, given the lack of success that you've had so far?

A number of schools (MD and DO) do ask if you been accepted elsewhere.

Deferrals are hard to get and usually go to people with illness or significant life issues.

It's already hard to get into AOA Ortho...there aren't many spots to begin with. Yes, more doors are closed to you as a DO, but please do not engage in the conceit that you'll just magically waltz into Ortho as an MD. Competitive residencies are competitive for a reason. But the gestalt I've heard from DO colleagues is that AOA PDs will be favoring DOs for the foreseeable future.


Frankly, I suggest that you give up your accepts and let someone who wants to be a doctor right now get your seat.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

What are your stats? This is the first question if you are deciding b/w DO or MD.

 

[allinthehips]

Thanks for the reply, I do appreciate the candor.

By no means do I think it would be “easy” or I could waltz into it with a MD. One of the DO ortho docs I work with explicitly stated it was harder to be a DO in the field. This is compounded via the MD I primarily work with pushing me to reapply.

I do not have solid evidence that my updated CV (more experience, more non-clinic volunteering, possibly better LORs) would increase my chances for MD and I have no bias against DO (applied 50/50 this cycle). I am simply conflicted and trying to make a calculated decision regarding my future.

 

[Rekt]

Thanks for the reply, I do appreciate the candor.

By no means do I think it would be “easy” or I could waltz into it with a MD. One of the DO ortho docs I work with explicitly stated it was harder to be a DO in the field. This is compounded via the MD I primarily work with pushing me to reapply.

I do not have solid evidence that my updated CV (more experience, more non-clinic volunteering, possibly better LORs) would increase my chances for MD and I have no bias against DO (applied 50/50 this cycle). I am simply conflicted and trying to make a calculated decision regarding my future.

You still did not mention your stats. That is the most important part of how anyone can respond to you.

Personally, I would absolutely never advise anyone to go to DO school. Take a year and do every single thing you can to make yourself more competitive. The upcoming years for DO students are going to be disastrous.

 

[allinthehips]

What are your stats? This is the first question if you are deciding b/w DO or MD.

LizzyM ~65. 2000+hrs clinic exposure 200+ volunteering. 3rd auth in peer reviewed pub, etc etc

 

[BorntobeDO?]

LizzyM ~65. 2000+hrs clinic exposure 200+ volunteering. 3rd auth in peer reviewed pub, etc etc

I would apply more broadly to MD and see where it goes, you obviously can't apply again to schools that accepted you, and DMU is good, but its still DO outside of its immediate area. If you like Ortho go MD. Its still hard, but hard (say 5-6/120) is better than the 1/200 that will be matching Ortho as DO's in the near future.

 

[deleted480308]

LizzyM ~65. 2000+hrs clinic exposure 200+ volunteering. 3rd auth in peer reviewed pub, etc etc

Is it worth $200k and the potentially more than 50% chance you never end up a doctor to maybe double the 3%odds that if you do matriculate that you end up in ortho?

Madoff offered a better deal

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Is it worth $200k and the potentially more than 50% chance you never end up a doctor to maybe double the 3%odds that if you do matriculate that you end up in ortho?

Madoff offered a better deal

He already got into DO school, and good ones at that, I am pretty sure if he just wants to become a doctor he can do it again. There are tons of new schools every year.

I agree that the absolute percentage of ortho docs is low, but there is no denying that at about any USMD multiple people match Ortho every year, whereas it is becoming less and less common in DO even with our larger class sizes. even if its 5/120 vs 1/200 thats basically an 8x better chance. The absolute might be going from 0.5% chance to 4% but 4% is a lot better than 0.5%.

Edit: put some actual numbers down below. Appears to be about 3x at this moment.

 

[deleted480308]

He already got into DO school, and good ones at that, I am pretty sure if he just wants to become a doctor he can do it again. There are tons of new schools every year.

I agree that the absolute percentage of ortho docs is low, but there is no denying that at about any USMD multiple people match Ortho every year, whereas it is becoming less and less common in DO even with our larger class sizes. even if its 5/120 vs 1/200 thats basically an 8x better chance. The absolute might be going from 0.5% chance to 4% but 4% is a lot better than 0.5%.

When the DO schools find out he turned down an acceptance, hid odds plummet.

And I thought I was being conservative by 3% odds or ortho DO as my school (6/150 before the nrmp even happened)

This like giving up a bird in the hand for some magic beans in hopes of a gold egg laying goose (mixed metaphor/fable, forgive me)

 

[BorntobeDO?]

When the DO schools find out he turned down an acceptance, hid odds plummet.

And I thought I was being conservative by 3% odds or ortho DO as my school (6/150 before the nrmp even happened)

This like giving up a bird in the hand for some magic beans in hopes of a gold egg laying goose (mixed metaphor/fable, forgive me)

Campbell had 6/150 in AOA, which is good especially for a DO school, but that won't be around in 2 years. How many DO's are matching ACGME, and how many of our programs are making the transition (and even more important staying DO only)? We are losing slots all over and ACGME Ortho has never been DO friendly. I just don't see how this can be good advice for someone who is gonna graduate in 2020 beyond.

 

[deleted480308]

Campbell had 6/150 in AOA, which is good especially for a DO school, but that won't be around in 2 years. How many DO's are matching ACGME, and how many of our programs are making the transition (and even more important staying DO only)? We are losing slots all over and ACGME Ortho has never been DO friendly. I just don't see how this can be good advice for someone who is gonna graduate in 2020 beyond.

I think stay in the known quantity is great advice as I don't think they will be ortho either way.....but that risk and the crushing regret of doing it wrong is on them

 

[BorntobeDO?]

From NRMP for 2017:

From AOA for 2017

Thats your raw stats. Last year there were 121 Ortho slots. Assuming that all of those take DO's, with the projection of 10k DOs entering in 2022 the match percentage overall would be 1.2% if all programs make the cut (they won't) and if they only matched DOs (also not happening).

If there are approx 20k USMD then there are 710 USMD students matching that would be 3.55% matching Ortho overall based on 2017 numbers.

So even with DO friendly assumptions, his chances are almost 3x better in an USMD than a DO school. If you want Ortho go MD.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

LizzyM ~65. 2000+hrs clinic exposure 200+ volunteering. 3rd auth in peer reviewed pub, etc etc

If you are dead set on ortho, I'd say reapply, but don't apply this coming cycle, take this coming year off and make yourself as competitive as possible for MD.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

You still did not mention your stats. That is the most important part of how anyone can respond to you.

Personally, I would absolutely never advise anyone to go to DO school. Take a year and do every single thing you can to make yourself more competitive. The upcoming years for DO students are going to be disastrous.

Why not?

 

[sab3156]

Why not?

Is this a serious question?

Because you will have an extremely difficult time trying to match into anything competitive, the quality of mentorship, research, and clinical rotations at DO schools is generally quite poor, you will also have to waste many hours on OMM, you will have to take both boards for anything even moderately competitive, etc. There are many other reasons why MD schools are a far better option. People should only go to a DO if they cannot, for whatever reason, get into an MD school.

 

[kenjixshadow]

Believe ortho is your calling isn't the same as matching into ortho. You must prepare for the most ridiculous application in order to match into ortho even as an MD - top 10% of class rank with AOA, 250+ on Step 1/260+ on Step 2, multiple publications, and murder all of your sub-i (+/- if you power lifting). Even with that, you may only get less than 10 interview invites.

Now, if your application is anything less stellar, you may not match and have to settle for plan B. Ortho or burst is a premature decision and you shouldn't go to medical school solely based on that. If ortho is still a must for you, then give up your acceptance. However, you'll likely not able to get another acceptance from any DO school again if you don't make it to MD school. If that ever happens, don't blame on us that we didn't warn you.

 

[Cinemed]

Is this a serious question?

Because you will have an extremely difficult time trying to match into anything competitive, the quality of mentorship, research, and clinical rotations at DO schools is generally quite poor, you will also have to waste many hours on OMM, you will have to take both boards for anything even moderately competitive, etc. There are many other reasons why MD schools are a far better option. People should only go to a DO if they cannot, for whatever reason, get into an MD school.

While your points are not wrong, your gloom and doom DO vibe makes me think this is your reaction when you realize the DO student rotating alongside you is smarter than you as an MD:

 

[Wjldenver]

Calculate the probability of getting into an MD program. If you believe you have at least a 60% chance of matriculating, I say drop your DO acceptances and go for the MD. It is simply a much tougher road as a DO, particularly if you want to match into a competitive specialty. Even as a 4th year DO student, you face some discrimination in the University of Colorado system for example. Out of state DO applicants for a one month 4th year rotation are required to pay $4,000 for the privilege. (In state DO applicants get a discount to $2,000.) A number of other competitive 4th year rotation spots are simply not offered to DO students at the CU Med School.

In addition, all of the time you spend on OMM could be used to increase your USMLE score in a MD program. It's not just about passing the USMLE, it's more about getting a score of at least 220 to be mildly competitive. When I run across folks who do not have the stats to get into the University of Colorado MD program, I strongly suggest they apply to a number of out-of-state MD programs which do not have a stringent in-state bias. Goro and Faha come up with out-of-state MD program suggestions all of the time on the what are my chances sub-forum.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

While your points are not wrong, your gloom and doom DO vibe makes me think this is your reaction when you realize the DO student rotating alongside you is smarter than you as an MD:

Come back to this post after the match and tell me you still feel the same way.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

Is this a serious question?

Because you will have an extremely difficult time trying to match into anything competitive, the quality of mentorship, research, and clinical rotations at DO schools is generally quite poor, you will also have to waste many hours on OMM, you will have to take both boards for anything even moderately competitive, etc. There are many other reasons why MD schools are a far better option. People should only go to a DO if they cannot, for whatever reason, get into an MD school.

Of course I know that lol it's pretty obvious.
Person I quoted seemed to imply that he wouldn't advise anyone to go DO, regardless of circumstances. It's one thing to be competitive enough for MD, but its another thing to be borderline, re-applying and repeatedly getting shunned from MD. That person is gonna wish he went DO when he had the chance x amount of years ago.

 

[Cinemed]

Come back to this post after the match and tell me you still feel the same way.

I'll be too busy making my DO money to care.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I'll be too busy making my DO money to care.

Making my DO money = Paying my twice as large loans. Higher cost = better right?

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

if you are that confident that youll get into USMD go for it
buttt from personal experiance i thought about doing the same, my friend and i had identical stats, and i mean down to gpa.001. I chickened out, he didnt. He reapplied, i took my acceptance and ran with it. Im a 3rd year DO, hes now a second year DO student because second time around he got waitlist again so he took the DO route now.

 

[Cinemed]

Making my DO money = Paying my twice as large loans. Higher cost = better right?

Aside from my state MD which was significantly cheaper, the schools I was interested in, both MD and DO, were essentially the same cost. Plus, I got 1 II/1 acceptance, so your argument wasn't a factor. I'm just so grateful that in a few years I'll be a doctor.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Aside from my state MD which was significantly cheaper, the schools I was interested in, both MD and DO, were essentially the same cost. Plus, I got 1 II/1 acceptance, so your argument wasn't a factor. I'm just so grateful that in a few years I'll be a doctor.

There isn't an argument, just a joke.

 

[Chibucks15]

While your points are not wrong, your gloom and doom DO vibe makes me think this is your reaction when you realize the DO student rotating alongside you is smarter than you as an MD:

The thing is he is a DO student...the most self-hating one I've ever seen on here

 

[Eagles6389]

You still did not mention your stats. That is the most important part of how anyone can respond to you.

Personally, I would absolutely never advise anyone to go to DO school. Take a year and do every single thing you can to make yourself more competitive. The upcoming years for DO students are going to be disastrous.

OP, my advice would be to seriously consider if you are 100% set on Ortho and nothing else. If you are, you should drop the DO acceptance and reapply MD, whether that means retaking the MCAT, doing a post-bacc, w/e to make your application stronger for MD programs.

However, I think there's a lot of ridiculous statements made so far in this thread like "never go to a DO school" or "you will have an extremely difficult time trying to match anything competitive", because whether DO school is worth it entirely depends on what specialty you are interested in. If you are interested in primary care, it would be incredibly dumb to withdraw from going to a DO school to reapply MD. You won't face any bias trying to go into primary care residencies as a DO unless you are only aiming for the very top programs. Secondly, there are DOs that match into mildly-moderately competitive ACGME fields every year like EM, Anesthesiology, and OBGYN. Is it tougher to match into those fields as a DO? Sure it is. To the point where you shouldn't go to a DO school if you're a pre-med interested in one of those fields? Not at all.

Yes, the very competitive fields of Ortho, Ophthalmology, Derm, Urology, Neurosurgery, etc are extremely difficult to obtain as a DO to the point where you should seriously consider only going MD if that's what you are set on. But the rest of those mildly-moderately competitive specialties continue to match DOs every year, and I really doubt that will change much with the merger. If anything, the merger will eliminate the below-average DO students who could match AOA EM, General Surgery, etc. but it really won't have that detrimental of an effect on the DO students who have competitive scores aiming for those fields.

 

[sab3156]

Of course I know that lol it's pretty obvious.
Person I quoted seemed to imply that he wouldn't advise anyone to go DO, regardless of circumstances. It's one thing to be competitive enough for MD, but its another thing to be borderline, re-applying and repeatedly getting shunned from MD. That person is gonna wish he went DO when he had the chance x amount of years ago.

I agree with you on this. It's pretty risky, especially considering no school that accepted him previously is going to accept him a second time around.

 

[sab3156]

Believe ortho is your calling isn't the same as matching into ortho. You must prepare for the most ridiculous application in order to match into ortho even as an MD - top 10% of class rank with AOA, 250+ on Step 1/260+ on Step 2, multiple publications, and murder all of your sub-i (+/- if you power lifting). Even with that, you may only get less than 10 interview invites.

Now, if your application is anything less stellar, you may not match and have to settle for plan B. Ortho or burst is a premature decision and you shouldn't go to medical school solely based on that. If ortho is still a must for you, then give up your acceptance. However, you'll likely not able to get another acceptance from any DO school again if you don't make it to MD school. If that ever happens, don't blame on us that we didn't warn you.

Your post is full completely false information. The AVERAGE for Ortho step 1 is not even 250... Most MDs who try for ACGME ortho and have a decent application will probably match. The same cannot be said for even superstar DO applicants. That's the point here.

 

[padfoot777]

I think turning down a DO acceptance so that four years down the line you have more options when applying to a highly competitive surgical field four years down the line might not be the best idea. OP, many people change their mind in medical school about what they think they want to go into, to jeopardize an acceptance at a US DO school for the chance at a US MD school (with no guarantee) does not sound wise to me. The merger will most likely make ortho even more competitive than it currently is for DO students, but there will most likely be programs that are still DO friendly even after their transition to ACGME. Regardless of DO or MD, strong ortho applicants typically have worked very hard throughout medical school for high board scores, research, and LOR's. It is going to be a very competitive process regardless of which route you ultimately decide to go.

 

[sab3156]

I think turning down a DO acceptance so that four years down the line you have more options when applying to a highly competitive surgical field four years down the line might not be the best idea. OP, many people change their mind in medical school about what they think they want to go into, to jeopardize an acceptance at a US DO school for the chance at a US MD school (with no guarantee) does not sound wise to me. The merger will most likely make ortho even more competitive than it currently is for DO students, but there will most likely be programs that are still DO friendly even after their transition to ACGME. Regardless of DO or MD, strong ortho applicants typically have worked very hard throughout medical school for high board scores, research, and LOR's. It is going to be a very competitive process regardless of which route you ultimately decide to go.

The difference is that an phenomenal DO applicant will probably still not get into any programs barring outstanding networking and influential connections. A decent app from the MD side will probably match. That's a massive difference, so it's not accurate at all to say that "both will have a hard time". They are at two different levels of difficulty.

That being said, of course he should not turn down the DO acceptances unless he has a very strong shot at getting into MD schools. Otherwise he might be screwing himself over forever.

However, I think there's a lot of ridiculous statements made so far in this thread like "never go to a DO school" or "you will have an extremely difficult time trying to match anything competitive", because whether DO school is worth it entirely depends on what specialty you are interested in.

That's why the statement was about "anything competitive". We aren't talking about pediatrics and family medicine. If people realize later on, like in 3rd year, that they want to go into something like ophtho/otolaryngology/ortho/etc.... they're pretty much out of luck.

 

[sleepyhead22]

Have you looked into PM&R at all OP? I'm an M1 and have a clinical assignment in it and it's a pretty cool set up, procedures if you want them, MSK subject matter, and easier to match into than ortho. My preceptor said he was originally planning on ortho but found the lifestyle a much better fit with PM&R and has been happy with that choice.

I think you could end up making a huge mistake if you turn down an acceptance for the CHANCE at an acceptance in the future when you have no idea if you'd end up going into ortho in the end anyways.

 

[Giovanotto]

Have you looked into PM&R at all OP? I'm an M1 and have a clinical assignment in it and it's a pretty cool set up, procedures if you want them, MSK subject matter, and easier to match into than ortho. My preceptor said he was originally planning on ortho but found the lifestyle a much better fit with PM&R and has been happy with that choice.

I think you could end up making a huge mistake if you turn down an acceptance for the CHANCE at an acceptance in the future when you have no idea if you'd end up going into ortho in the end anyways.

What?

 

[sleepyhead22]

What?

What Types of Treatments and Procedures Do Physiatrists Perform

 

[Giovanotto]

What Types of Treatments and Procedures Do Physiatrists Perform

I wouldn't consider any of those procedures, but thanks for the heads up, I was genuinely curious.

 

[cryhavoc]

You still did not mention your stats. That is the most important part of how anyone can respond to you.

Personally, I would absolutely never advise anyone to go to DO school. Take a year and do every single thing you can to make yourself more competitive. The upcoming years for DO students are going to be disastrous.

I really can’t see MD’s learning OMT, taking our board and doing well, then sniping all the DO residencies. Do you see that happening?

 

[deleted407021]

I really can’t see MD’s learning OMT, taking our board and doing well, then sniping all the DO residencies. Do you see that happening?

This is SDN, the sky is always falling and it’s the end of the world.

 

[NurWollen]

I really can’t see MD’s learning OMT, taking our board and doing well, then sniping all the DO residencies. Do you see that happening?

They won't have to learn OMT. The requirement that they learn OMT to apply to the former AOA residencies never really materialized. I'm sure programs with osteopathic recognition have to have OMM requirements, but very few programs have even gone for that.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[NurWollen]

This is SDN, the sky is always falling and it’s the end of the world.

No kidding. Five years ago people were saying that applicants would outnumber residencies and that DO would be the new Caribbean by 2018.

Now they're saying by 2025.

Then again, things have gotten more competitive. I think I would have gotten more interviews in my specialty if I had been applying 2-3 years sooner.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[NurWollen]

I agree with you on this. It's pretty risky, especially considering no school that accepted him previously is going to accept him a second time around.

Your post is full completely false information. The AVERAGE for Ortho step 1 is not even 250... Most MDs who try for ACGME ortho and have a decent application will probably match. The same cannot be said for even superstar DO applicants. That's the point here.

Both good points. Average MD applicants have opportunities that stellar DO applicants don't have. It sucks but it's true.

But, like you say, it's awfully risky for OP to turn down a DO acceptance for the less-than excellent chance at an MD acceptance, in order to go after a specialty he may or may mot even be interested in in a few years.

'don't go to DO school under any circumstances' is pretty extreme advice.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[Scrubs101]

Your post is full completely false information. The AVERAGE for Ortho step 1 is not even 250... Most MDs who try for ACGME ortho and have a decent application will probably match. The same cannot be said for even superstar DO applicants. That's the point here.

To be fair, its still 247 lol kinda splitting hairs

Orthos incredibly hard for MDs too, OPs chances at ortho are definitely going up if gets into an MD school but lets not tell them theyre a shoo-in as an MD either... but yeah its still a 75%+ chance of matching compared to what like 50% in the AOA match for DOs (not sure the accuracy of this just a number ive heard thrown around) and jack squat in the ACGME match (obviously it will just be the ACGME match by the time OP gets there though).

OP genuinely consider if you are absolutely dead set on ortho, if you cant possibly think of anything else in medicine youd want to do. Then yeah go for the MD, but i lean on the wary side of things and would go with the DO acceptance because the application process can shaft you in round 2 of it as well

 

[cryhavoc]

I can maybe see a desperate MD trying to get like a DO ortho residency if they really want it, but what about primary care? Does your average DO student have to worry about the primary care residencies being swept out from under him or her? If so, wish someone would have told me. I was led to believe that a DO could usually do primary care no issue without red flags. Why I didn’t waste time taking years off. Ain’t getting any younger and the loan debt ain’t getting any smaller.

Not sure about what I’d do in OP’s position. Never been interested in any competitive specilalties.

 

[Scrubs101]

Have you looked into PM&R at all OP? I'm an M1 and have a clinical assignment in it and it's a pretty cool set up, procedures if you want them, MSK subject matter, and easier to match into than ortho. My preceptor said he was originally planning on ortho but found the lifestyle a much better fit with PM&R and has been happy with that choice.

I think you could end up making a huge mistake if you turn down an acceptance for the CHANCE at an acceptance in the future when you have no idea if you'd end up going into ortho in the end anyways.

+1 to this OP if you have a genuine interest in MSK, PMR is a solid option that is definitely attainable for DOs, and if youre craving for even more interventional procedures you can do an interventional spine & sports fellowship or interventional pain!

 

[IslandStyle808]

No kidding. Five years ago people were saying that applicants would outnumber residencies and that DO would be the new Caribbean by 2018.

Now they're saying by 2025.

Then again, things have gotten more competitive. I think I would have gotten more interviews in my specialty if I had been applying 2-3 years sooner.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

I don't remember that one bit. We all thought DOs would still be getting exclusive access to DO residencies and that Caribbean students will be shut out by 2020. Now we are finding that residencies are not as easy to match into as before (including MD competition), and SOAPing/scrambling into your field might be a pipe dream depending on how competitive it is.

Now we have an internship crunch, where the amount of internships on the ACGME side have gone down (yes I checked the numbers) and the amount of applicants have gone up. So now more people who are applying to advanced positions are more reluctant to rank an advanced position above a categorical.

You can still match, but the stress of matching is far greater than its ever been and will continue to get worse.

 

[Meekor]

I went into med school dead set on doing psych or IM. Then after first year I was thinking EM, GI, or a surg field. I ended up matching gen surg. Your desires and passions will change as you go through school, so you might fall in love with FM again who knows.

The real question is... do you really want to become a doctor? Because if you love ortho for procedures and the things you can do in the OR etc., going to PA school and specializing in ortho is probably your safest option. I’ve encoutnered several surgical PAs that run the floor for the surgeons, see consults, and are the surgeons personal first assist on cases. If you want to be a doctor then I would suggest staying with your acceptance and working your ass off to keep as many doors open for you as you can.

 

[IslandStyle808]

+1 to this OP if you have a genuine interest in MSK, PMR is a solid option that is definitely attainable for DOs, and if youre craving for even more interventional procedures you can do an interventional spine & sports fellowship or interventional pain!

PM&R is a very versatile field, you can do a lot of different procedures. I know one doc that isn't even doing MSK stuff at all, she mainly deals with burn patients.

 

[NurWollen]

I don't remember that one bit. We all thought DOs would still be getting exclusive access to DO residencies and that Caribbean students will be shut out by 2020. Now we are finding that residencies are not as easy to match into as before (including MD competition), and SOAPing/scrambling into your field might might be a pipe dream depending on how competitive it is.

Now we have an internship crunch, where the amount of internships on the ACGME side have gone down (yes I checked the numbers) and the amount of applicants have gone up. So now more people who are applying to advanced positions are more reluctant to rank an advanced position above a categorical.

You can still match, but the stress of matching is far greater than its ever been and will continue to get worse.

I'm sure there were lots of SDN conversations that said what you describe. But I also remember occasionally reading threads as an incoming DO student back in 2013ish that made me worry I would never match.

Bottom line though, you're not wrong. Matching is still very doable and even likely for most people, and it's still a minority of people who have to SOAP, but I'm in peds (of course not very competitive) and I didn't get interviews at some places I probably would have maybe three years earlier.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

Of course I know that lol it's pretty obvious.
Person I quoted seemed to imply that he wouldn't advise anyone to go DO, regardless of circumstances. It's one thing to be competitive enough for MD, but its another thing to be borderline, re-applying and repeatedly getting shunned from MD. That person is gonna wish he went DO when he had the chance x amount of years ago.

*sigh* I don't know why I came back to this thread, when I should know better. I guess I just don't like seeing people make mistakes.

So, to follow up on this, as pointed out above:
DO: 1% chance of matching into Ortho
MD: 3% chance of matching into Ortho

"But the odds are 3x higher!"

OP's stats place him/her down around slightly below the median MD matriculant. This doesn't instill within me the confidence that this is someone who will match into Ortho.

OP doesn't have any MD IIs, much less a spot on a wait list. Odds of getting an accept to an MD school are ~40% for the entire pool of applicants, unless OP lives in a lucky state.

Now do y'all realize how risky this is?

 

[Scrubs101]

PM&R is a very versatile field, you can do a lot of different procedures. I know one doc that isn't even doing MSK stuff at all, she mainly deals with burn patients.

Wow thats actually really cool!

Yeah PMR definitely seems sweet, before medical school it I hardly knew what it was but it’s definitely on my radar now.

What’s that acronym stand for again lol