Debt and Ortho

[VJP212]

I got into Harvard a few years ago and turned it down for my state school (kind of expensive, no-name state school). I was that kid - high school valedictorian, 4.0 in college, high DAT score. I only applied to Harvard to see if I could get in, never had any intention on going there. Ended up doing a public health scholarship, so no debt. Will be starting endo this summer at a good, relatively inexpensive program. And if I could do it all over again, I'd absolutely do a gap year between college and dental school.

How did you get a public health scholarship? Does it require a commitment to work in a certain place?

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[charlestweed]

I got into Harvard a few years ago and turned it down for my state school (kind of expensive, no-name state school). I was that kid - high school valedictorian, 4.0 in college, high DAT score. I only applied to Harvard to see if I could get in, never had any intention on going there. Ended up doing a public health scholarship, so no debt. Will be starting endo this summer at a good, relatively inexpensive program. And if I could do it all over again, I'd absolutely do a gap year between college and dental school.

Congratulations for getting into a cheap endo program! Getting accepted to endo straight out of dental school is not easy since most endo programs prefer applicants with work experience. You must do very well in dental school. This is exactly what I’ve tried to tell young kids to do. Use their good academic stats to get into cheap schools. The Harvard’s name may be beneficial for people who plan to work right after graduation…like engineers, teachers etc. But to become a dentist, picking the cheapest school to attend is the smart financial decision.

It’s good that you didn’t take any gap year between college and dental school. I know you wish you should have taken a gap year and this is where I disagree with you. How are you going to live during the gap year since you are no longer qualified for student loan? Rely on your parents again? Get a minimum wage job that you hate so you can support yourself? When you take a gap year, you essentially extend the period of being a student for another year. It sucks being a poor student…no money, no respect. And the worst part of being a student is you have to deal with unreasonable instructors at school…..you have to go around begging the instructors for signatures, for LORs etc. Don’t you want to get out that miserable student lifestyle ASAP and become a boss sooner? Time is money.

 

[Cold Front]

I got into Harvard a few years ago and turned it down for my state school (kind of expensive, no-name state school). I was that kid - high school valedictorian, 4.0 in college, high DAT score. I only applied to Harvard to see if I could get in, never had any intention on going there. Ended up doing a public health scholarship, so no debt. Will be starting endo this summer at a good, relatively inexpensive program. And if I could do it all over again, I'd absolutely do a gap year between college and dental school.

That’s awesome. But you are still in the minority of the high stats students who turn down Ivy League schools. Otherwise, no one would go to those schools and their GPA and DAT scores would be similar to middle and lower competitive schools. I still think majority of hard workers in life would like to feed from fruits on top of the tree - whether it’s education, business, etc. You decided to apply to Endo, a hard to get into speciality, a rare inexpensive program that all highly qualified Endo applicants wanted to get into, but that’s because of your hard work that paid off and you wouldn’t pass on that opportunity. Congrats!

 

[UncleJoesVeneers]

It’s good that you didn’t take any gap year between college and dental school. I know you wish you should have taken a gap year and this is where I disagree with you. How are you going to live during the gap year since you are no longer qualified for student loan? Rely on your parents again? Get a minimum wage job that you hate so you can support yourself? When you take a gap year, you essentially extend the period of being a student for another year. It sucks being a poor student…no money, no respect.

I went to college on full academic scholarships at an inexpensive state university. Worked during the summers. And I'm also an only child from a middle class family that doesn't have debt. So yes, my parents likely would have helped pay some bills. But they also didn't have to pay for college or dental school since I had full scholarships and a stipend. Taking a gap year to travel around the country or even do fun odd jobs would have been invaluable in my early 20s, I think. 2/3 of dental students come from the top quintile of family wealth in the United States. So I'm not an outlier. I went straight from high school to college to dental school to GPR to four years of full-time FQHC dentistry. A gap year somewhere would have been worth it. It's certainly a privilege, but I think it's wrong to suggest that it's a poor decision if you don't have outstanding debt. Opportunity cost isn't simply financial. You don't get your youth back. Formative relationships and experiences in youth are invaluable.

How did you get a public health scholarship? Does it require a commitment to work in a certain place?

I did the NHSC scholarship. Did a GPR, then four years in public health FQHCs. Probably would have skipped the GPR in retrospect, but again I didn't have debt and I was paid a fair wage in a fun city so it was a good year. FQHC dentistry is a major burnout. Glad to be moving on.

 

[PerioDont]

I went to college on full academic scholarships at an inexpensive state university. Worked during the summers. And I'm also an only child from a middle class family that doesn't have debt. So yes, my parents likely would have helped pay some bills. But they also didn't have to pay for college or dental school since I had full scholarships and a stipend. Taking a gap year to travel around the country or even do fun odd jobs would have been invaluable in my early 20s, I think. 2/3 of dental students come from the top quintile of family wealth in the United States. So I'm not an outlier. I went straight from high school to college to dental school to GPR to four years of full-time FQHC dentistry. A gap year somewhere would have been worth it. It's certainly a privilege, but I think it's wrong to suggest that it's a poor decision if you don't have outstanding debt. Opportunity cost isn't simply financial. You don't get your youth back. Formative relationships and experiences in youth are invaluable.



I did the NHSC scholarship. Did a GPR, then four years in public health FQHCs. Probably would have skipped the GPR in retrospect, but again I didn't have debt and I was paid a fair wage in a fun city so it was a good year. FQHC dentistry is a major burnout. Glad to be moving on.

this part honestly bothers me a lot. imo education should be a building block for families to start on the way to generational wealth and should be open to everyone.

Instead, it is now indebting the few poor students for life with high tuitions, and while the 'system' is definitely designed that it is much easier for middle class people to get into dental schools, even the vast majority of dentists cannot afford to pay for their own kids dental education. a large chunk of students at my school are legacies whose parents went to the very same d school before them.

Good for you for getting out with no debt.

 

[P7898]

I went to college on full academic scholarships at an inexpensive state university. Worked during the summers. And I'm also an only child from a middle class family that doesn't have debt. So yes, my parents likely would have helped pay some bills. But they also didn't have to pay for college or dental school since I had full scholarships and a stipend. Taking a gap year to travel around the country or even do fun odd jobs would have been invaluable in my early 20s, I think. 2/3 of dental students come from the top quintile of family wealth in the United States. So I'm not an outlier. I went straight from high school to college to dental school to GPR to four years of full-time FQHC dentistry. A gap year somewhere would have been worth it. It's certainly a privilege, but I think it's wrong to suggest that it's a poor decision if you don't have outstanding debt. Opportunity cost isn't simply financial. You don't get your youth back. Formative relationships and experiences in youth are invaluable.



I did the NHSC scholarship. Did a GPR, then four years in public health FQHCs. Probably would have skipped the GPR in retrospect, but again I didn't have debt and I was paid a fair wage in a fun city so it was a good year. FQHC dentistry is a major burnout. Glad to be moving on.

This is what people should strive for. Very inspiring. Congrats!

 

[yappy]

One of the biggest misconceptions about dentistry. This one actually made me chuckle. Easy to plan to work until 80, when the odds of that happening is closer to seeing a solar eclipse. Even if one could work until age 80 - why? Even during an economic downturn like now (during the pandemic), dentists are not planning on retire until age 80.

I was reading an article earlier, how covid in first 6 months of 2020 cut the US life expectancy by a full year. From 78.8 to 77.8 years. When the full year data comes out, it could be cut by 5 years or more. The Spanish flu cut life expectancy by around 14 years. No one should plan to work until age 80 under today’s health crisis climate.

I agree with your point that it is irresponsible to have a financial plan that depends on one working till 80. Personally I don’t think retirement is anything to look forward to but it’s important to become financially independent as soon as possible.

 

[charlestweed]

I went to college on full academic scholarships at an inexpensive state university. Worked during the summers. And I'm also an only child from a middle class family that doesn't have debt. So yes, my parents likely would have helped pay some bills. But they also didn't have to pay for college or dental school since I had full scholarships and a stipend. Taking a gap year to travel around the country or even do fun odd jobs would have been invaluable in my early 20s, I think. 2/3 of dental students come from the top quintile of family wealth in the United States. So I'm not an outlier. I went straight from high school to college to dental school to GPR to four years of full-time FQHC dentistry. A gap year somewhere would have been worth it. It's certainly a privilege, but I think it's wrong to suggest that it's a poor decision if you don't have outstanding debt. Opportunity cost isn't simply financial. You don't get your youth back. Formative relationships and experiences in youth are invaluable.

I really admire kids who are raised by wealthy parents and do well in school. Despite having a very comfortable lifestyle and all the materialistic things that their parents have provided for them, they still have the motivation to work hard for their future career. UncleJoesVenneers, I hope my children will be successful like you. Many of my "weahthy" friends are complaining about their adult children, who don't seem to care about their future.

I think it's easier for people like me (I came to the US with nothing...no Engish, no money) to have the right kind of motivation that helps them become successful. Without money, I didn't have the option to take a gap year to travel everywhere. Now looking back, I am glad that I didn't have that option. Facing adversity in life has taught me a lot.