Decision time: Davis or Penn? Help wanted

[Rac Umich]

ok, this is really getting down to the wire, but i'm soliciting help because i'm totally spent and can't think clearly.

i'm trying to decide between UC Davis and Penn.

my interests are: oncology and zoo medicine (slight interest in ER med).
i'm originally from ohio, now in ann arbor (small city in michigan) finishing my phD in pathology with a strong focus in cancer biology. i'm very athletic (soccer, running, biking) and enjoy living in a place where i can walk/bike everywhere, be out late at night (even run) and get a coffee anywhere.

here are my pros/cons of the schools, any advice or overlooked +/- can be mentioned.

penn greats:
15K/year renewal academic scholarship
good oncology dept
good er medicine
midwest (close to home)
big city - lots to do

penn drawbacks:
not much zoo med exposure (biggest drawback!)
less safe city - can't run at night, etc
weather (not bad, but davis is best)

uc davis greats:
awesome zoo med program
in state residency after 1 yr
awesome electives
warm weather
safe

uc davis drawbacks:
oncology program lost dr. london to ohio st
tiny town college town (i'm 28 y/o)
far from home

alrighty, any advice or opinions would be GREATLY appreciated. i know i'm fortunate to get into both places, but i want to pick the right place for me. if i could transplant uc davis to penn, i would, i think.

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[CanadianGolden]

Penn is NOT in the midwest...(just FYI, as a committed coastal person, there's no way I could let that slide).

I can't tell you what to do, but both are great schools, so you really can't go wrong.

 

[pupsforseeing]

I was in this same quandary, trying to decide between Davis and Penn. I took the cop out by deciding neither and waiting a year to go to vet school, but that's neither here nor there I would think if your passion is zoo med, that would give Davis a huge leg up. Both seem to have great ER med programs. I don't know too much about the oncology programs at both, so I can't comment there. I do like that Davis' curriculum is quite a bit more free in terms of electives and externships so you have more chances to pursue specifically want interests you.

After doing undergrad in a tiny rural town, the idea of living in a city for a few years sounds great. I liked Philly and all it has to offer. For me, the fact that I've done undergrad in western PA means some of my really good friends are going to professional school in Philly, so it'd be nice to be near them. At Davis, save one or two people in the Davis/Sac area, I wouldn't really know anyone outside the vet school. Both are quite bike friendly, but for me, Penn had the advantage that I could get housing much closer to the vet school. I will not be bringing a car with me, but will be raising a guide dog puppy, so riding my bike to school every day is out. I don't want to have to take public transportation every day, so being within walking distance is important to me.

I do really love the weather at Davis. I loved when I was out there for my interview and everyone was sitting outside on the patio studying/eating lunch. Then, when I flew home to PA that night, I had to navigate back to school through an ice storm!

Another draw for me (that is quite specific, so probably doesn't generalize well!) is Davis' proximity to "service dog row" and established relationships with a lot of the larger service/guide dog programs in NorCal. Penn is about an hour from The Seeing Eye, but the dean wasn't aware of any established programs they had with him.

This was probably less than helpful, but good luck in making a decision! They're both really great schools, I don't think you can go wrong with your choice.

 

[tiddlywinks]

Just my two cents. I picked Davis over Penn, primarily because of my interest in zoo med (and I'm from PA). I'm in my first year, and don't regret my choice at all. There are a lot of electives in wildlife / non-domestic medicine that, from what I saw of the Penn curriculum, just aren't available at Penn. I took Comp Anatomy/Physiology of non-domestic animals last quarter and am taking husbandry and management of captive animals (basically, in zoos) right now. The Wildlife and exotics clubs are very active, I've already done a necropsy on a sealion, and there's just a ton of opportunities in the region and in the whole state (like a course they offer over spring break where you go down to southern california and get behind the scenes veterinary tours of seaworld and the wild animal park, and also get to practice capture of wildlife.) Whereas when I told the Upenn people I wanted to do zoo med, all they offered was the ability to do externships in the fourth year.

I also like the fact that we have our large animal clinic right here next to our small animal, versus being an hour away like the New Bolton Center. That way I can get exposure to food animal and equine stuff as well throughout.
Upenn does have a really nice, fancy looking teaching hospital (for small animal), while ours is kinda old and doesn't look as nice, but we have amazing new labs, classrooms and teaching facilities.

Davis is a cute little town. I've never lived in a small town; it's kind of a transition and there isn't that much to do (especially in terms of nightlife), but then, it's not like you have a whole lot of free time in vet school anyway. Stores tend to close pretty early, which is annoying. But sacramento (~20min) and San fran aren't too far away. There's great skiing in Tahoe nearby and we're going whitewater rafting this weekend. Overall it's really nice to live here, there's nice quiet neighborhoods and parks.

I actually did live in Philly very close to the vet school for a summer and I really liked it, but the whole safety issue was kind of a concern.

So.. long and rambling post. Hope it's at least semi-helpful

 

[hoodle]

Hi! Well, first, congrats on your choice. You'll be happy at either place. I think the decision will depend on what's the most important to you - city life or athletic life, ER or Zoo/Wildlife.

Penn
1) an INCREDIBLE place for emergency medicine - really, the best in the couuntry I think in terms of case load and professors.
2) not nearly as strong in terms of wildlife, but good exotics. Not as good for zoo, but still obviously a great program, as people say the most important for zoo med is a fundamentally solid internal medicine background, rather than actual exposure to zoo animals.
3) Philly is a city with pros and cons:
pro: lots of nightlife, restaurants
cons: dangerous, grimy, weather. the weather is a consideration for running - when it's icy and cold and narsty, you're not going to want to run.
4) money - you have a good deal here.
5) location - Philly is not really all that close to either ohio or michigan!
- nearest gorgeous outdoor areas sort of frustrating. I'm from seattle and there, you're spoiled in terms of beautiful mountains/hiking within 1 hour drive. Philly is really close proximity to incredible urban centers (new york, boston, baltimore, DC) but not jawdropping natural beauty, though you can find it.

6) other thing that rankles with me - New Bolton seperate from main campus. This encourages specialization (incredible small animal, fabulous large animal) but makes a more integrated or mixed experiece more difficult.

=====================================

Davis:
1) very strong programs in nearly everything, ESPECIALLY zoo/wildlife.
2) not the incredible emergency strength at Penn, but nothing to sneeze at!
3) Davis as a city has pros and cons:
cons: smallish, no nightlife (or college-based), more insular
pros: "i'm very athletic (soccer, running, biking) and enjoy living in a place where i can walk/bike everywhere, be out late at night (even run) and get a coffee anywhere." This sounds like Davis. It's a super athletic town, very outdoors oriented. Lots of coffee shops and little restaurants. Very very safe, low crime.
4) Location:
Sacramento: 20 minutes (fancier/more ethnic restaurants, bars, etc)
San Francisco: 1 hour-ish (maybe hour + 15 minutes).
Lake Tahoe area: 2 hours (fabulous skiing, hiking, etc)
coast - gorgeous california coasts, monterey bay, santa cruz, etc
wine and dine - nappa valley! ahh.
5) money - not as good for you as penn.
6) integrated hospital

Maybe this helps?!

You'll make a good decision!!

 

[BobDog]

ok, this is really getting down to the wire, but i'm soliciting help because i'm totally spent and can't think clearly.

i'm trying to decide between UC Davis and Penn.

my interests are: oncology and zoo medicine (slight interest in ER med).
i'm originally from ohio, now in ann arbor (small city in michigan) finishing my phD in pathology with a strong focus in cancer biology. i'm very athletic (soccer, running, biking) and enjoy living in a place where i can walk/bike everywhere, be out late at night (even run) and get a coffee anywhere.

here are my pros/cons of the schools, any advice or overlooked +/- can be mentioned.

penn greats:
15K/year renewal academic scholarship
good oncology dept
good er medicine
midwest (close to home)
big city - lots to do

penn drawbacks:
not much zoo med exposure (biggest drawback!)
less safe city - can't run at night, etc
weather (not bad, but davis is best)

uc davis greats:
awesome zoo med program
in state residency after 1 yr
awesome electives
warm weather
safe

uc davis drawbacks:
oncology program lost dr. london to ohio st
tiny town college town (i'm 28 y/o)
far from home

alrighty, any advice or opinions would be GREATLY appreciated. i know i'm fortunate to get into both places, but i want to pick the right place for me. if i could transplant uc davis to penn, i would, i think.

Are you planning on staying in research? If your dissertation work was in cancer biology, then it would seem that finding a place with good oncology research and clinics would be the first priority. I guess I am not quite sure how zoo/wildlife medicine fits into your career goals. I don't know much about Davis, but I know the oncology service at Penn was very active when I was there for interviews. The appointment list was full on a Friday afternoon.

I guess you need to decide what is more important, wildlife/zoo or oncology. I think Davis has the distinct advantage in zoo/wildlife and Penn has the advantage for oncology (due to combination of clinic case load and great research opportunities). Not to mention that you would be paying a significant amount less at Penn with the scholarship . Like Hoodle said, you also can't beat Penn for emergency medicine. This way you could indulge one of your other interests too.

 

[hoodle]

What Bobdog says makes total sense, and I totally neglected to mention it. If you want to continue with oncology, then you have to judge wildlife vs oncology. Do you want to do wildlife or zoo oncology? do either place have someone who does that? Or will that be a internship/residency?

 

[Rac Umich]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. This all very very helpful!

My big problem really is that I don't know which I like more - oncology or zoo med. That's what I want to figure out during vet school. I've had much more exposure to oncology (research-based, not clinical), but much less with exotic/zoo med. So, it's really hard to say which I like more. Ideally, I wanted to put myself at a school where I could get the greatest exposure to both oncology and zoo medicine. I'm not sure which place - Davis or Penn - offers me that opportunity.

 

[Angie09]

FWIW, I live 5 blocks from Penn's vet school right now, and I run by myself at night all the time (or with one of my dogs) and I've never felt worried. Not at 2 AM or anything like that, but I usually get home from work around 8 or 9, walk the dogs, and then sometimes go for a run. There are usually a fair amount of people around in West Philly (west of 38th), and if you cross 38th going toward downtown, it's pretty packed with students. Oh, and I'm a 5'5" female, so I'm sure people don't leave me alone because I intimidate them.

As for the other stuff, that's tough (excellent quandary to be in, though!). I had the same dilemma, and the price difference made Davis totally out of the question for me. I love California, and totally intend to move back there once I'm ready to settle down semi-permanently, but between the Penn scholarship and the huge tuition at Davis, it was more than enough to tip the balance. I think the research at Penn is great (I'm sure Davis is good too, but I'm a post-doc at Penn right now and have never worked at Davis) and I actually really like the city. Plus, as a couple other people mentioned, both emergency and oncology are big here. I think onc is pretty big at Davis too, though, isn't it? I think they'd recently finished building a new cancer center when I was there last year, and I'd imagine their caseload would have to be pretty big to justify something like that.

Obviously Davis is a college town, and I'd never categorize Philly that way, but the area right around the school seems to be pretty heavily saturated with undergrads (Penn, Drexel, Temple are all right here). Still, you'll have a much easier time finding chronological peers in Philly than Davis, I'd think (outside school, I mean).

I'm not really helping. Sorry.

BTW -- what kind of running do you do?

 

[hoodle]

Here's another thought:

At Penn, you die of bullet wounds.

At Davis, you die of skin cancer.

Good god, is it sunny. It's like 75 degrees and incredibly sunny here. wow... my eyes... are blinded by the light.... i feel like a little underground mole rat, blinking and squinting in the sun!

 

[VAgirl]

Here's another thought:

At Penn, you die of bullet wounds.

At Davis, you die of skin cancer.

Good god, is it sunny. It's like 75 degrees and incredibly sunny here. wow... my eyes... are blinded by the light.... i feel like a little underground mole rat, blinking and squinting in the sun!

I think you need some sunglasses. In fact, I do, too. Now that we're gonna be Cali gals, it's time we each get a pair (and that way people won't be able to tell we're not from around there since our squinting, blinded eyes will be hidden). Now if only the pastiness of my skin wouldn't give me away...

 

[pupsforseeing]

I think you need some sunglasses. In fact, I do, too. Now that we're gonna be Cali gals, it's time we each get a pair (and that way people won't be able to tell we're not from around there since our squinting, blinded eyes will be hidden). Now if only the pastiness of my skin wouldn't give me away...

Don't worry, I'm a California girl born and raised and I'm as pastey as they come...it happens to the best of us Granted, now that I've lived in PA for the last few years, I blame it on the lack of sunlight out here. But, those who know me well know that my skin was hardly a few shades darker when I lived in sunny SoCal!

I'm moving to the Caribbean this summer and will spend most of the daylight hours outside. If I am still this pale at the end of next year, then there will be a problem!

 

[nyanko]

Good god, is it sunny. It's like 75 degrees and incredibly sunny here. wow... my eyes... are blinded by the light.... i feel like a little underground mole rat, blinking and squinting in the sun!

I grew up in Pittsburgh, but was tempered by living in Florida for 3 years before I came here, so this is nothing to me. In fact, the dry heat is a welcome change from the complete sauna that is central Florida for 3/4 of the year.

 

[Rac Umich]

If I end up in Davis too, then we can all have a contest to see who's the most pale, AND who can get darker the fastest. I guarantee I am the whitest white girl ever!

I still haven't decided bt Davis and Penn, I'm going to pay the deposit for Penn, and accept at Davis too. (I think that's allowed, no?) Then, go out and have another look around.

So, for those that have started to look for places in Davis. Is it really hard to find an apartment if you have a dog? I'm planning rescuing a Dobe this summer, and bring it to school with me. I know there are many apt options in Philly, including dog-friendly places. But, I know less about apts in Davis. And, my little critters - guinea pig, fishes, etc. - need/want an animal friendly landlord too!

 

[nyanko]

I still haven't decided bt Davis and Penn, I'm going to pay the deposit for Penn, and accept at Davis too. (I think that's allowed, no?) Then, go out and have another look around.

That's kind of a lame thing to do, but it's your prerogative.

 

[runnerDC]

I still haven't decided bt Davis and Penn, I'm going to pay the deposit for Penn, and accept at Davis too. (I think that's allowed, no?) Then, go out and have another look around.

No, this isn't allowed, and it is also highly unethical. Holding two spots denies others a fair chance at moving forward with their own decisions.

Please be cognizant of your peers' feelings, experiences, and plans in this process and don't deposit at two schools.

 

[critterfixer]

Agreed. That would be unethical. It would be akin to a school telling two applicants they are accepted for the same spot, and then telling one of them later that they can't really attend.

I don't know, but I think you could potentially lose your spot for doing this, so consider the option carefully. At this point, if you cannot decide between them, the difference must be so small that you should just pick one and be done with it.

 

[CanadianGolden]

It sounds like Davis would better fit your lifestyle. And yes, what you are proposing is very unethical and rude; it may cause someone else who actually WANTS to go to one of those schools to have to choose somewhere they don't want to go, or not be able to go anywhere at all.

 

[Rac Umich]

Alrighty kids I made a decision. It's Penn! So, thanks everyone for the help and suggestions. I hope everyone else gets to where they want to be.
Spots will be freed up at Davis, Cornell, Tufts, Michigan St, NC State, Ohio St and Wisconsin.

Good night.

 

[hoodle]

Well, congrats on your decision! I'm sad you're not coming to Davis though. what made finally swayed you?