Decisions....

[Erapitt]

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Okay, so here goes..... I am a 25 year old federal contract specialist set to begin law school at a top ranked school (GW) in the Fall. However, there is one problem.... I am learning that being a lawyer isn't what I want. Medicine is always something that I have desired and I truly want to help people, however, my Bachelors Degree is in English Literature.

I have been looking into post-bac programs at night here in the DC area (American's seems to be decent, Georgetown's looks great but only offers day classes). My major question is this: I graduated college in 2003, in 2002, my junior year, I decided to take some premed courses. I took Bio I and received a B, Bio II and received a C, Chem I and received a C, and withdrew from Chem II half way through.

I was working full time while attending school full time, had some personal issues going on, and overall just wasn't focused on the work. That being said, it has also now been 3 years since I took those courses. If I enter a post-bac program now, will I be able to start anew and simply take the entire set of premedical courses or will my youthful past haunt me?

Lastly, at 25, are my nuts to be going back to school for 2 years of premed courses, then hoping for medical school when I already have law school laid out in front of me?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[Law2Doc]

Okay, so here goes..... I am a 25 year old federal contract specialist set to begin law school at a top ranked school (GW) in the Fall. However, there is one problem.... I am learning that being a lawyer isn't what I want. Medicine is always something that I have desired and I truly want to help people, however, my Bachelors Degree is in English Literature.

I have been looking into post-bac programs at night here in the DC area (American's seems to be decent, Georgetown's looks great but only offers day classes). My major question is this: I graduated college in 2003, in 2002, my junior year, I decided to take some premed courses. I took Bio I and received a B, Bio II and received a C, Chem I and received a C, and withdrew from Chem II half way through.

I was working full time while attending school full time, had some personal issues going on, and overall just wasn't focused on the work. That being said, it has also now been 3 years since I took those courses. If I enter a post-bac program now, will I be able to start anew and simply take the entire set of premedical courses or will my youthful past haunt me?

Lastly, at 25, are my nuts to be going back to school for 2 years of premed courses, then hoping for medical school when I already have law school laid out in front of me?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Before you jump into a post bac, you probably should do some shadowing or volunteering or some clinical job to see if you really want to do medicine. You aren't too old to do the premed path, but you sound a bit wishy washy from your post. You applied to law school (GW is great, but I'm not sure a school ranked #20 is what I would tout as a "top ranked" school, per se), but now all of a sudden once accepted you suddenly want medicine? Know something about the field first, and if you still want it, then go for it.

 

[Erapitt]

Before you jump into a post bac, you probably should do some shadowing or volunteering or some clinical job to see if you really want to do medicine. You aren't too old to do the premed path, but you sound a bit wishy washy from your post. You applied to law school (GW is great, but I'm not sure a school ranked #20 is what I would tout as a "top ranked" school, per se), but now all of a sudden once accepted you suddenly want medicine? Know something about the field first, and if you still want it, then go for it.

First, I guess I didn't go into as much detail as I could have. My brother is a doc and I have worked in clinics and done hospital volunteer work on and off for about three years. Upon graduating college is when the idea of medical school started coming to light but then I abandoned it as unlikely.

Second, I can sense the law school snob in you and I am sorry for saying "top ranked," but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Let me rephrase, "I was accepted into a respected law school." The snobbish attitude of your post is a bit much. I realize to you top 15ers that anything outside of your realm is trash, but a top 20 school out of 187 isn't a bad accomplishment. I asked a question and was hoping for some advice, not to be berated bc my law school acceptance isn't good enough for someone like yourself.

 

[letsrun4it]

First, I guess I didn't go into as much detail as I could have. My brother is a doc and I have worked in clinics and done hospital volunteer work on and off for about three years. Upon graduating college is when the idea of medical school started coming to light but then I abandoned it as unlikely.

Second, I can sense the law school snob in you and I am sorry for saying "top ranked," but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Let me rephrase, "I was accepted into a respected law school." The snobbish attitude of your post is a bit much. I realize to you top 15ers that anything outside of your realm is trash, but a top 20 school out of 187 isn't a bad accomplishment. I asked a question and was hoping for some advice, not to be berated bc my law school acceptance isn't good enough for someone like yourself.

Start taking classes at your nearest college and you could apply in June 2007! Basically, if it's what you want to do with your life- do it! Don't let anything stand in your way but start NOW!

 

[Erapitt]

Does anybody know of the repubility of American University's program? I work here in the area and they offer night classes so it would be a good fit. However, I don't want to waste time on a program that will do me no good. Also, I need to find out if it is alright to retake the classes listed above or if I am screwed at this point.

 

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

I understand a little bit of what you are going through, as I originally went the law school route before learning that yes, I was smart enough to go to med school and yes, I really should go there after all. I think it's great that you figured that out at 25, because it took me almost ten more years to get to where you are now.
However, before you start worrying about your BA GPA or a post-bac program or anything else, you might want to consider taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Why, exactly, do you think that "...being a lawyer isn't what [you] want"? No offense, but if you haven't even started law school yet, how do you know what it means to be a lawyer? A JD opens up a lot of opportunities, many of which have nothing to do with the courts and other lawyers.
That would be the first big question; the second big question follows logically: how do you know you want to be a doc?
These aren't Zen questions. You have to be able to articulate answers to them in your primary application's personal statement, your secondary applications, and your interviews, because that is going to be the $64,000 question. Med schools will overlook a couple of C's in your GPA -- mine did -- but if you can't make them understand why you're jumping ship mid stream then you're going to get screwed.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but maybe you want to give the law a (nother) chance. Med school will still be there in five or ten years if you want it that badly.

 

[Erapitt]

I understand a little bit of what you are going through, as I originally went the law school route before learning that yes, I was smart enough to go to med school and yes, I really should go there after all. I think it's great that you figured that out at 25, because it took me almost ten more years to get to where you are now.
However, before you start worrying about your BA GPA or a post-bac program or anything else, you might want to consider taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Why, exactly, do you think that "...being a lawyer isn't what [you] want"? No offense, but if you haven't even started law school yet, how do you know what it means to be a lawyer? A JD opens up a lot of opportunities, many of which have nothing to do with the courts and other lawyers.
That would be the first big question; the second big question follows logically: how do you know you want to be a doc?
These aren't Zen questions. You have to be able to articulate answers to them in your primary application's personal statement, your secondary applications, and your interviews, because that is going to be the $64,000 question. Med schools will overlook a couple of C's in your GPA -- mine did -- but if you can't make them understand why you're jumping ship mid stream then you're going to get screwed.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but maybe you want to give the law a (nother) chance. Med school will still be there in five or ten years if you want it that badly.

Thanks for the response. Without getting into a huge essay here, I want to be a doctor to treat patients. Plain and simple jist of it. The volunteer work I have done has been deeply rewarding and it has caused me to start to pursue this more seriously than in the past.

Regarding trying law school..... That is an expensive thing to "try." Granted, the agency I work for will pay for the majority of my law school, nonetheless, I am going to have to disagree with you regarding trying it out just to see if its for you.

I am also going to have to cite that every lawyer or judge I have spoken to up to this point has said, you go to law school to become a lawyer. Its entirely too expensive to hope other opportunities spout from it.

I am going to continue soul searching, but in the meantime it would be nice to get some straight forward answers to my questions.

 

[njbmd]

Okay, so here goes..... I am a 25 year old federal contract specialist set to begin law school at a top ranked school (GW) in the Fall. However, there is one problem.... I am learning that being a lawyer isn't what I want. Medicine is always something that I have desired and I truly want to help people, however, my Bachelors Degree is in English Literature.

I have been looking into post-bac programs at night here in the DC area (American's seems to be decent, Georgetown's looks great but only offers day classes). My major question is this: I graduated college in 2003, in 2002, my junior year, I decided to take some premed courses. I took Bio I and received a B, Bio II and received a C, Chem I and received a C, and withdrew from Chem II half way through.

I was working full time while attending school full time, had some personal issues going on, and overall just wasn't focused on the work. That being said, it has also now been 3 years since I took those courses. If I enter a post-bac program now, will I be able to start anew and simply take the entire set of premedical courses or will my youthful past haunt me?

Lastly, at 25, are my nuts to be going back to school for 2 years of premed courses, then hoping for medical school when I already have law school laid out in front of me?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Hi there,
If you have really decided that law is not for you then plot a strategy for getting into medical school. The good thing about GW is that many courses are offered at night including some of the pre-med courses. University of Maryland has a good post bacc program and the Hopkins post bacc is off the scale (probably the best in the country).

You cannot erase your past grades but you have minimal "damage control" to make up for. The most important thing for you is to get a good solid knowledge foundation in the pre-med courses and do great on the MCAT. Your volunteering is fine so you can put that on hold until you get your coursework under control. No matter what your previous grades, you are going to want to make sure that you have the knowledge from those courses as well as upgrading your grades.

At age 25, you have plenty of time to take your time and get some good grades. There is little difference in getting accepted to medical school at age 30 versus age 35 as long as you are a competitive applicant so take your time and get the knowledge and grades that you need to be competitive.

Finally, if you DO NOT want to be an attorney, then let the law school go. If you want to practice medicine then figure out what you need and start moving forward. This is your life and you do not need anyone to tell you how to live it or what to do. Go with what you want to do and you will have few regrets.

In DC, since there are plenty of good schools and programs around, you can carve out your own post-bacc and get what you need. Get a copy of the latest MSAR (Medical School Admission Requirements) and figure out how you can meet the needs of the schools that interest you. Then get them done and apply.

njbmd 🙂

 

[1Path]

I am going to continue soul searching, but in the meantime it would be nice to get some straight forward answers to my questions.

I'm just jumping in here for Law2doc who BTW, IS a lawyer desiring to become a doctor.

Your response to Law was unecessarliy terse. Law happens to be one of the kindest, helpful, and most humble SDN'ers around. And lets be real here, a kind AND humble lawyer/premed is a special thing!

Having said all that, I'll have to agree with Law and the other poster about being sure this is what you want to do. Changing careers 5 months before you're to head down a path VERY different from medicine is a reason to proceed cautiously.

Good Luck!

 

[Scottish Chap]

Okay, so here goes..... I am a 25 year old federal contract specialist set to begin law school at a top ranked school (GW) in the Fall. However, there is one problem.... I am learning that being a lawyer isn't what I want. Medicine is always something that I have desired and I truly want to help people, however, my Bachelors Degree is in English Literature.

I have been looking into post-bac programs at night here in the DC area (American's seems to be decent, Georgetown's looks great but only offers day classes). My major question is this: I graduated college in 2003, in 2002, my junior year, I decided to take some premed courses. I took Bio I and received a B, Bio II and received a C, Chem I and received a C, and withdrew from Chem II half way through.

I was working full time while attending school full time, had some personal issues going on, and overall just wasn't focused on the work. That being said, it has also now been 3 years since I took those courses. If I enter a post-bac program now, will I be able to start anew and simply take the entire set of premedical courses or will my youthful past haunt me?

Lastly, at 25, are my nuts to be going back to school for 2 years of premed courses, then hoping for medical school when I already have law school laid out in front of me?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

I know someone in a similar position. He was one day from starting law school at Georgetown and his heart was always in medicine. He didn't enroll and immediately began in a post-bac program affiliatd with Jefferson in order to complete the sciences. He gained admission to Jefferson and he's now in his last year of training in ENT surgery. Don't waste your time and money on law school if you really don't want to be there or you'll end up an embittered law student, and that might be hard to recover from. It's never too late....

 

[Erapitt]

Okay, first, sorry law. I'm goin through some complicated things outside of this decision right now, didn't mean to be snipping.

Second, this wasn't some miracle decision. I was accepted into law school LAST fall. I deferred for one year because I wasn't sure it was what I wanted. I didn't just decide out of the blue not to go. Its been a year of thinking.

Regarding if I do go, noone seems to be able to tell me if I can retake the classes that I haven't taken in a while. I feel like I would def. not succeed at Chem II without taking Chem I again since it was so long ago and I got a C.

Anyway, again, I apologize law, however, the comments made were def. snooty and a bit offensive to me.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

Anyway, again, I apologize law, however, the comments made were def. snooty and a bit offensive to me.

Maitre D': I'm suggesting that you leave before I have to get snooty.
Ferris: Snooty?
Maitre D': Snotty.
Ferris: Snotty?

anyway, can you defer a year at law school while you try out a post-bacc?

 

[Erapitt]

Maitre D': I'm suggesting that you leave before I have to get snooty.
Ferris: Snooty?
Maitre D': Snotty.
Ferris: Snotty?

anyway, can you defer a year at law school while you try out a post-bacc?

I already used my one year deferral this past year. I either begin law school in the fall or I would have to reapply all over again.

 

[blee]

I graduated in 1999. Starting in summer '04, I re-took all of my pre-requisite courses in order to bump my GPA, show recent coursework, and prepare for the MCAT. It worked for me. BTW, I live around D.C. and I did my post-bacc at Georgetown. Excellent program.

It might work for you, too, but I'm guessing your coursework is a little more recent. Try asking adcoms at local med schools; you have three within the city limits. I think they'll be okay with it, especially if you haven't taken the rest of the pre-reqs yet.

I'm going to assume that you know you want to go into medicine, at least as much as any of us really "knows" what we're getting into. If you want this, it can be done, and you never know how things will turn out until you go for it.

 

[Erapitt]

I graduated in 1999. Starting in summer '04, I re-took all of my pre-requisite courses in order to bump my GPA, show recent coursework, and prepare for the MCAT. It worked for me. BTW, I live around D.C. and I did my post-bacc at Georgetown. Excellent program.

It might work for you, too, but I'm guessing your coursework is a little more recent. Try asking adcoms at local med schools; you have three within the city limits. I think they'll be okay with it, especially if you haven't taken the rest of the pre-reqs yet.

I'm going to assume that you know you want to go into medicine, at least as much as any of us really "knows" what we're getting into. If you want this, it can be done, and you never know how things will turn out until you go for it.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the science courses I listed I took in 2001-2002 year so they are def. more recent, however, still long enough ago that there is no way I am going to remember the material. I guess I will start calling a couple adcoms next week and see what they have to say.

 

[blee]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the science courses I listed I took in 2001-2002 year so they are def. more recent, however, still long enough ago that there is no way I am going to remember the material. I guess I will start calling a couple adcoms next week and see what they have to say.

The fact of the matter is that you probably won't be prevented from taking those courses anyway. And when you report your grades in AMCAS, your newer grades will be averaged into your GPA along with all of your older grades. If an adcom wants to pick and choose and re-calculate, that's their right...but I doubt many would go through the trouble. Adcoms might be able to give you an idea of how they view re-taken coursework, of course, and that would be good information to have.

I think that a post-bacc program is your best bet in this process. I'm a big advocate of being a full time student for various reasons, but if you can't do that, then you will have to pick one with hours that suit you. Fortunately, there are several schools around here that offer classes at convenient times.

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

Erapitt,

I don't know if GW will permit it, but another idea / option for you is to defer another year, take the pre reqs for medicine along with the MCAT, and go for the joint MD/JD program...unless Law holds absolutely NO interest for you...but there ARE many areas / sub-specialties in which MD/JD grads can work. Additionally, you are not too old to take on this long of a training period...probably, the perfect age to do so, actually.

Just an idea for you... 🙂

 

[Erapitt]

Erapitt,

I don't know if GW will permit it, but another idea / option for you is to defer another year, take the pre reqs for medicine along with the MCAT, and go for the joint MD/JD program...unless Law holds absolutely NO interest for you...but there ARE many areas / sub-specialties in which MD/JD grads can work. Additionally, you are not too old to take on this long of a training period...probably, the perfect age to do so, actually.

Just an idea for you... 🙂

Thanks, but I really have no desire to do a duel degree program like that.

Also, I think I need to clarify. I have been out of school for two years. I never went to GW in the past. I have been accepted there for law school. I cannot take classes other than those prescribed for law students.

I also want a more formalized program. I don't think it does much good to just take the classes and hope for the best. Hence why I am looking into post bac programs.

Thanks for all the advice. Keep it coming

 

[Law2Doc]

Anyway, again, I apologize law, however, the comments made were def. snooty and a bit offensive to me.

No offense taken. But in all fairness it is you who used the words "top ranked", first, so I actually read your post as the one being snooty... 🙂
The only advice I have is to have a good backstory as to how and why you decided you wanted to be a doctor, why you followed your prior career path for as long as you did, why you are changing streams, and why now. It will all come up, and better hold water. Saying you want to "treat patients" or "help people" is too cliche, so you are going to need a better hook.
As for postbac, you probably can retake the few classes you took previously. Good luck.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Second, I can sense the law school snob in you and I am sorry for saying "top ranked," but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Let me rephrase, "I was accepted into a respected law school." The snobbish attitude of your post is a bit much. I realize to you top 15ers that anything outside of your realm is trash, but a top 20 school out of 187 isn't a bad accomplishment. I asked a question and was hoping for some advice, not to be berated bc my law school acceptance isn't good enough for someone like yourself.

This I agree with, but unfortunately it's how the legal world works. Medicine is sort of refreshing because it's more egalitarian. In the legal world, you wind up with all these silly distinctions like first tier, top 25, top 20, top 15, top 14, top 10, etc. -- I've heard 'em all used. Top 14 I think is used just to exclude my alma mater since it's public, cheap and in Texas. 🙂

Anyway, my advice would be to see if you could defer your GW acceptance and spend a year figuring out whether you like medicine, law or whatever. It sounds like your job gives you some pretty good legal experience, so maybe you're covered on that end. The big downside of law school is that it costs a fortune, so don't go unless you're sure you want to do the law thing.

Good luck! You're young and have time to figure these things out.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I already used my one year deferral this past year. I either begin law school in the fall or I would have to reapply all over again.

Oops, missed that one. Honestly, I doubt it's a big deal to decline the acceptance if you're not sure and reapply later if you determine law really is your thing. Law schools don't ask for much in terms of commitment to being a lawyer -- in fact, it never came up during my application process. 🙂

 

[Erapitt]

Oops, missed that one. Honestly, I doubt it's a big deal to decline the acceptance if you're not sure and reapply later if you determine law really is your thing. Law schools don't ask for much in terms of commitment to being a lawyer -- in fact, it never came up during my application process. 🙂

It really is a shame I took those handful of science courses before graduating when I wasn't dedicated to studying. C'est la vie.

Now the time has come to decide if taking an evening post bac program at American and retaking some of the classes will impress adcoms or be a big waste of money..........

 

[FutureDocDO]

Okay, so here goes..... I am a 25 year old federal contract specialist set to begin law school at a top ranked school (GW) in the Fall. However, there is one problem.... I am learning that being a lawyer isn't what I want. Medicine is always something that I have desired and I truly want to help people, however, my Bachelors Degree is in English Literature.

I have been looking into post-bac programs at night here in the DC area (American's seems to be decent, Georgetown's looks great but only offers day classes). My major question is this: I graduated college in 2003, in 2002, my junior year, I decided to take some premed courses. I took Bio I and received a B, Bio II and received a C, Chem I and received a C, and withdrew from Chem II half way through.

I was working full time while attending school full time, had some personal issues going on, and overall just wasn't focused on the work. That being said, it has also now been 3 years since I took those courses. If I enter a post-bac program now, will I be able to start anew and simply take the entire set of premedical courses or will my youthful past haunt me?

Lastly, at 25, are my nuts to be going back to school for 2 years of premed courses, then hoping for medical school when I already have law school laid out in front of me?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

It's smart to realize your true calling now than having to go into debt for a law degree that's pretty useless if you want to be a practicing doc. BTW, 25 is not old, neither is 27 by the time you apply. Your past will haunt you if you apply to allopathic schools as they average your retakes whereas DO schools will take the most current retake grades. Good luck.

 

[Erapitt]

It's smart to realize your true calling now than having to go into debt for a law degree that's pretty useless if you want to be a practicing doc. BTW, 25 is not old, neither is 27 by the time you apply. Your past will haunt you if you apply to allopathic schools as they average your retakes whereas DO schools will take the most current retake grades. Good luck.

So then basically I am screwed. I have no interest in DO programs. I was planning on pursuing an MD, which isn't likely if they are going to average past grades. Granted the B and C I received aren't a big deal if I can get As on the retest, but even if I swing an A on Bio II that, averaged with a D+ four years ago, will only amount to a B- at best.

I think that is garbage that classes taken 4-5 years ago are averaged but c'est la vie. I'm not about to spend 20K on post bac courses at this point bc with them averaging my past failures it will be virtually impossible to have a high overall science GPA.

 

[CCEMTP2DOC]

So then basically I am screwed. I have no interest in DO programs. I was planning on pursuing an MD, which isn't likely if they are going to average past grades. Granted the B and C I received aren't a big deal if I can get As on the retest, but even if I swing an A on Bio II that, averaged with a D+ four years ago, will only amount to a B- at best.

I think that is garbage that classes taken 4-5 years ago are averaged but c'est la vie. I'm not about to spend 20K on post bac courses at this point bc with them averaging my past failures it will be virtually impossible to have a high overall science GPA.

I was understanding of your situation...until this post. You stated that you wanted to be a doctor "to treat patients, plain and simple". But, you are dismissing D.O.; I am confused. You were all about dissing Law2 Doc about being snobbish. It is you,I feel, that is now coming off as snobish. It is well known, and very unfortunate, that MOST pre meds fell that M.D. is superior to D.O. If you want to be a doctor, who cares how you get there or what letters are after your name. All I am saying is that you are sounding like you are too good to consider D.O. I will be 42 upon application and I will go anywhere that can get me my desired result. Take some time and think about your decision. I have been in the medical field a long time and we have enough ego driven people; we need more peope who genuinely care. Good luck in you decision.


Rob

 

[Erapitt]

I was understanding of your situation...until this post. You stated that you wanted to be a doctor "to treat patients, plain and simple". But, you are dismissing D.O.; I am confused. You were all about dissing Law2 Doc about being snobbish. It is you,I feel, that is now coming off as snobish. It is well known, and very unfortunate, that MOST pre meds fell that M.D. is superior to D.O. If you want to be a doctor, who cares how you get there or what letters are after your name. All I am saying is that you are sounding like you are too good to consider D.O. I will be 42 upon application and I will go anywhere that can get me my desired result. Take some time and think about your decision. I have been in the medical field a long time and we have enough ego driven people; we need more peope who genuinely care. Good luck in you decision.


Rob

I am actually researching DO programs as we speak, so I do feel I spoke too soon. Nonetheless, it seems that DO programs can void out certain possibilities such as surgery and what not and aren't always held as high. This is not being snobbish, this is looking out for my investment. YES, I want to be a doctor, however, I don't want to have a degree and be broke and unable to support my family. I am not trying to be snobbish, but I came on this forum to get answers to questions I have.

 

[Law2Doc]

So then basically I am screwed. I have no interest in DO programs. I was planning on pursuing an MD, which isn't likely if they are going to average past grades. Granted the B and C I received aren't a big deal if I can get As on the retest, but even if I swing an A on Bio II that, averaged with a D+ four years ago, will only amount to a B- at best.

I think that is garbage that classes taken 4-5 years ago are averaged but c'est la vie. I'm not about to spend 20K on post bac courses at this point bc with them averaging my past failures it will be virtually impossible to have a high overall science GPA.

If you can pull a slate of A's in all your current and retake courses, most schools will take into account the positive trend. You never can completely free yourself totally of older ug GPA though (unless you take the years of courses some folks do to average them away, or take the DO route as Futr_Dr suggested). If it's something you want bad enough, you can ultimately get there, one way or the other. But if you are only going to spend the "20k" if it (allo) is going to be a "sure thing", then I don't see you getting past this hurdle. A lot of nontrads only get to our goal by taking the leap of faith and stepping off that cliff, from the relative safety of our prior lives.

 

[CCEMTP2DOC]

I am actually researching DO programs as we speak, so I do feel I spoke too soon. Nonetheless, it seems that DO programs can void out certain possibilities such as surgery and what not and aren't always held as high. This is not being snobbish, this is looking out for my investment. YES, I want to be a doctor, however, I don't want to have a degree and be broke and unable to support my family. I am not trying to be snobbish, but I came on this forum to get answers to questions I have.

Fair enough. Here in Michigan, D.O.'s have no problem getting competitive residencies. Do well on your boards and you r degree shouldn't matter. I definitely understand about having a family to support. Good luck. Please feel free to PM if you have any questions.

Rob

 

[Erapitt]

Fair enough. Here in Michigan, D.O.'s have no problem getting competitive residencies. Do well on your boards and you r degree shouldn't matter. I definitely understand about having a family to support. Good luck. Please feel free to PM if you have any questions.

Rob

My overall UG GPA isn't bad, 3.4 including the horrible grades listed. However, the science GPA will crush me if they are going to average it due simply to the one D+ in BIO II. I am going to have to continue to do some more research.

Leap of faith is one thing, spending 20K for nothing is entirely different.......

 

[CaveatLector]

My 2 cents...

I don't think being a lawyer is all that different from being a doctor. You use the same analytical and logical reasoning skills in both professions. I think you use the same basic set of skills just applied differently. I think that is why medicine is attractive to so many lawyers and vice versa. In general you are working with clients one on one and diagnosing a problem and then coming up with a plan to alleviate that problem. There are obvious differences such as maybe hours, etc., but I think the foundation of knowledge and the way both a dr. and a lawyer approach their work is the same.

Furthermore, I think that if this is something you have been mulling over for this long and you have had such exposure to the field then you should go for it. I wouldn't look at a post-bacc as being a waste of $. I am considering my own pre-med studies "personal enrichment." I know there are things in life short of desire that may eventually steer me away from medicine and if I have invested $10k at that point in pre-med classes so be it. I will be better for it. In the larger scheme of things it's not that big of a deal.

I worked with someone who quit med school after the 1st year and went into law. Her mother, father, brother, and husband were all doctors and she had been exposed to the med field all of her life. Everything from talk around the dinner table to actually being in the trenches and voluteering since she was 12. She said it wasn't so much that she felt she had a family obligation to go into medicine, she really thought she wanted to. But in the end, when she was actually exposed to the studies she didn't like it. Some people are like that. You get a lot of people saying that you need to be absolutely sure before you take the plunge. I think some people can't be absolutely sure until after they take it.

I compare the whole thing to residency. Everyone tells you that you will change your mind many times during clinical rotations as to what type of residency you want to pursue. Many people go into med school thinking they want to do x but in the end they do y. I think you can be no more sure that you want to pursue medicine until you are exposed to it first-hand and learning the material firt-hand. Especially after having the volunteer experience you already have. So go for it...

 

[CaveatLector]

Fair enough. Here in Michigan, D.O.'s have no problem getting competitive residencies. Do well on your boards and you r degree shouldn't matter. I definitely understand about having a family to support. Good luck. Please feel free to PM if you have any questions.

Rob

Well MSU COM is always top ranked in primary care which gives it a good reputation all around. I don't know the stats but there may be as many D.Os in Mich. as there are MD's. At any rate there are PLENTY of them and they are well-respected. MD's alone may have a sore spot for DO's but I don't think anyone else does. Like Rob says though they are quite competitive.

 

[Law2Doc]

Many people go into med school thinking they want to do x but in the end they do y. I think you can be no more sure that you want to pursue medicine until you are exposed to it first-hand and learning the material first-hand.

I basically agree with you but still think that there are better ways (i.e more and more varied amounts of clinical exposure) that the OP can decide if being a doctor is really what he wants before the huge costs of a postbac, MCAT, applications and med school. The first couple of years of med school have little semblance to what it's like to practice medicine, and so you are already going to be in your third year before you have decided if this is the career for you, under your theory...

 

[skypilot]

My overall UG GPA isn't bad, 3.4 including the horrible grades listed. However, the science GPA will crush me if they are going to average it due simply to the one D+ in BIO II. I am going to have to continue to do some more research.

Leap of faith is one thing, spending 20K for nothing is entirely different.......

No need to do too much research. All the answers are being presented to you. You should retake all your science classes. The grades will definitely be averaged into your old grades there is no way to get around that.

Every college course you ever took is averaged in. But there are tricks to raise your science GPA. Take a few additional science courses in science subjects that you are sure you can get an A in. That will jack up your average to an acceptable level. Then do well on the MCAT.

Continue to volunteer and write an inspiring personal statement.

Good luck. 🙂

 

[Erapitt]

So that being said, will the D+ be averaged also? I thought grades lower than Cs are simply required to be retaken?

Also, what about just taking the classes at a state school like George Mason (I live and work in the Northern VA area)? That could be significantly cheaper. I was even considering going back and trying to get a second Bachelors in Biology since I would just have to take the major courses. Hmmm.

DO is starting to look a bit better though. It would definately be my backup if no allo intitutions granted me an interview.

 

[1Path]

DO is starting to look a bit better though. It would definately be my backup if no allo intitutions granted me an interview.

Opps! 😱

 

[Erapitt]

Opps! 😱

I don't see how that is an oops. I am not knocking the program. It would achieve the goal of helping people and serving as a doctor. However, the holistic approach to medicine isn't exactly what I am looking for. Nonetheless, lets face the reality.... If I spend 20K on postbac courses, I AM going to do something with them and if it means a program other than my top choice than such is life.

Maybe some of you on here can afford to just drop 20K to "see if you like it," but I cannot.

 

[CaveatLector]

So that being said, will the D+ be averaged also? I thought grades lower than Cs are simply required to be retaken?

Also, what about just taking the classes at a state school like George Mason (I live and work in the Northern VA area)? That could be significantly cheaper. I was even considering going back and trying to get a second Bachelors in Biology since I would just have to take the major courses. Hmmm.

DO is starting to look a bit better though. It would definately be my backup if no allo intitutions granted me an interview.

Yeah D+ is averaged in. So are E's or F's, even though they OBVIOUSLY need to be retaken.
DO is an excellent option. Good luck!

 

[CaveatLector]

I don't see how that is an oops. I am not knocking the program. It would achieve the goal of helping people and serving as a doctor. However, the holistic approach to medicine isn't exactly what I am looking for. Nonetheless, lets face the reality.... If I spend 20K on postbac courses, I AM going to do something with them and if it means a program other than my top choice than such is life.

Maybe some of you on here can afford to just drop 20K to "see if you like it," but I cannot.

I agree with you completely. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to follow the DO philosophy just like there is nothing wrong with no wanting to follow the MD. It's a matter of personal choice. There is certainly no reason to be ashamed of going to a DO institution.

 

[CaveatLector]

I basically agree with you but still think that there are better ways (i.e more and more varied amounts of clinical exposure) that the OP can decide if being a doctor is really what he wants before the huge costs of a postbac, MCAT, applications and med school. The first couple of years of med school have little semblance to what it's like to practice medicine, and so you are already going to be in your third year before you have decided if this is the career for you, under your theory...

Oh there is no doubt about that and I agree. However the OP said he had clinical experience and all I am saying is there is no threshold of experience that will ultimately decide to go the Dr. route or not. At some point clincal experience has decreasing marginal returns in that regard. Then you just have to go to school.

 

[.edu-MD]

.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

DOs do have a harder time getting into super competitive allopathic residencies like radiology, opthalmology, derm, etc, but there are osteopathic residencies in all those areas. Surgery's the same, but again, there are DO surgery residencies and lots of DO surgeons out there. DOs make the same money as MDs -- it's all determined based on their specialty, so your family is not going to starve if you get a DO insted of an MD. I'm wondering why you're so dismissive of the holistic approach, too. It's actually spreading to allopathic schools -- it's not new-age mumbo jumgo, and it's not naturopathic/homeopathic/chiropractic whatever. In sum, holistic medicine isn't alternative medicine.

As for the $20k for the postbacc, that's pocket change.

 

[Erapitt]

DOs do have a harder time getting into super competitive allopathic residencies like radiology, opthalmology, derm, etc, but there are osteopathic residencies in all those areas. Surgery's the same, but again, there are DO surgery residencies and lots of DO surgeons out there. DOs make the same money as MDs -- it's all determined based on their specialty, so your family is not going to starve if you get a DO insted of an MD. I'm wondering why you're so dismissive of the holistic approach, too. It's actually spreading to allopathic schools -- it's not new-age mumbo jumgo, and it's not naturopathic/homeopathic/chiropractic whatever. In sum, holistic medicine isn't alternative medicine.

As for the $20k for the postbacc, that's pocket change.

If its pocket change, pass some change my way lol.... I'm 25 and work for the feds. Law school will be free if I go that route.

The DO route seems interesting, but I need to research more on how the actual residency req. for someone that wants surgery etc... work. It def. does seem like a viable option, but what I don't understand is if its essentially the same as an MD, why is it so much easier to get into a DO program?

 

[Law2Doc]

but what I don't understand is if its essentially the same as an MD, why is it so much easier to get into a DO program?

This kind of question is kind of like playing with fire on SDN.

 

[skypilot]

If its pocket change, pass some change my way lol.... I'm 25 and work for the feds. Law school will be free if I go that route.

The DO route seems interesting, but I need to research more on how the actual residency req. for someone that wants surgery etc... work. It def. does seem like a viable option, but what I don't understand is if its essentially the same as an MD, why is it so much easier to get into a DO program?

The D+ will be averaged in, but if you take a
few extra science courses and get A's the math works out like this
[4.0 + 4.0 + 4.0 + 2.0 ]/4 = 3.5

and a 3.5 will get you into med school.

DOs do residencies in allopathic institutions in the same specialties as MDs. Most DOs do not do osteopathic residencies! The reason that DO is easier to get into than MD is obviously less competition. But it is not that much easier. For instance suppose you are a North Dakota state resident with a 3.5 and a 26 MCAT. You could go either to your state school or to DO without much trouble. Harvard is probably out of reach but your state MD school is not. If you are a California resident your state school is probably out of reach too, but there are two Osteopathic schools in California.

 

[Erapitt]

The D+ will be averaged in, but if you take a
few extra science courses and get A's the math works out like this
[4.0 + 4.0 + 4.0 + 2.0 ]/4 = 3.5

and a 3.5 will get you into med school.

DOs do residencies in allopathic institutions in the same specialties as MDs. Most DOs do not do osteopathic residencies! The reason that DO is easier to get into than MD is obviously less competition. But it is not that much easier. For instance suppose you are a North Dakota state resident with a 3.5 and a 26 MCAT. You could go either to your state school or to DO without much trouble. Harvard is probably out of reach but your state MD school is not. If you are a California resident your state school is probably out of reach too, but there are two Osteopathic schools in California.

Interesting.. Except a D+ is closer to a 1 than a 2 and I got 1 D+ and 1 C. Those are some serious detractions to overcome when they are averaging scores.

 

[.edu-MD]

.

 

[Law2Doc]

How much better things would be if USNews would go away and AAMC would NOT release average matriculant MCAT and GPAs of schools, as is done with USMLE scores...

That would be really bad. You would have 10 times as many med school applicants applying because there would be no self selection. And people would have to get all their info exclusively from places like SDN and MdApplicants, where a certain amount of bad info exists, and rumors fly. 😕

 

[blee]

As far as GPA goes, I can tell you this much. I graduated with a 2.75 GPA, including a D in second-semester orgo, an F in a required course in my major, and several other wonderful things I did as an undergrad. My BCPM GPA was 2.65. After completing my post-bacc year and taking the MCAT, my overall GPA in AMCAS was 3.0 and my BCPM was 2.96 or so.

I only applied to MD-granting schools because of my current long-term career goals. Bottom line: 15 applications, 5 interviews, 5 acceptances.

There are lots of reasons not to pursue medicine or medical school, but a couple of bad grades in college shouldn't be among those reasons if you're determined. 🙂

 

[.edu-MD]

.

 

[Law2Doc]

There are no rankings or such for residency programs. There are no listed "average board scores" to be "competitive" at x program. It's all based on word of mouth and mentors and advisors. Yet, most people are not applying willy nilly across all specialties (which would be the corollary to lack of self selection in applying to med school) and to hundreds of programs just to give it a shot. It would compel serious applicants to become more informed about the whole education process, to learn what is really important, and what actually distinguishes the schools from one another.

Just my opinion. 👍

This only works because you more or less know exactly how many people are applying to residencies each year, and you funnel everybody through 150 points of entry, and so it's easy to disseminate the information about residencies without folks resorting to self help. Not so in med school applications, where the size of the pool of applicants changes year to year and only a portion coming through colleges with good advising boards. (With nontrads, trads, foreign, postbac, reapplicants and other, there are far too many points of entry). And you couldn't have a single published ranking list of the "best" residencies anyhow, you would need one for each specialty (or in some cases subspecialty), and so that would prove unworkable (and would take up an inordinate number of pages in US News if they tried to do it (and they wouldn't want to, because the maxiumum number of people who might actually be interested woud be about 30,000, so you wouldn't sell many copies of the magazine (the real driving force behind rankings). 🙂