Deferred Suspension

[mrjc]

My university recently hit me with a deferred suspension for copyright violation. Essentially I torrented a small part of a game before canceling the download but by then the damage had been done and the distributing company sent a notice to the school. However they also sent another notice for the same file and everything a few days later. I'm almost positive the torrent program wasn't running in the background and I certainly didn't intend on trying to download again since I ended up buying the game after cancelling the first one. The university's policy with this stuff is a file workshop for a first violation (which I attended), with a second violation leading to suspension. My case was different because I received notice of these complaints within 40 minutes of each other a few days after the second notice, meaning that I could not acknowledge the occurrence of the first one in time, which led to a deferred suspension. I still think that it should just be one violation since both instances were for the same file and still happened in a relatively short amount of time, but the university did not seem to take my perspective into account when determining an outcome. There is an appeal process available to me but I do not think there's a very good chance of anything changing and the outside chance of an increase to a normal suspension has me very skeptical of doing it. Regardless, I definitely learned my lesson and will not torrent again but am super worried about what this will do for my chances at getting into medical school since I'm pre-med. Is this sort of thing an automatic rejection or would a sound explanation make things OK? Sorry if this post seems long and there's too much of an intro, I'm just super stressed and worried about this. Any replies would be greatly appreciated!

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[907914]

My university recently hit me with a deferred suspension for copyright violation. Essentially I torrented a small part of a game before canceling the download but by then the damage had been done and the distributing company sent a notice to the school. However they also sent another notice for the same file and everything a few days later. I'm almost positive the torrent program wasn't running in the background and I certainly didn't intend on trying to download again since I ended up buying the game after cancelling the first one. The university's policy with this stuff is a file workshop for a first violation (which I attended), with a second violation leading to suspension. My case was different because I received notice of these complaints within 40 minutes of each other a few days after the second notice, meaning that I could not acknowledge the occurrence of the first one in time, which led to a deferred suspension. I still think that it should just be one violation since both instances were for the same file and still happened in a relatively short amount of time, but the university did not seem to take my perspective into account when determining an outcome. There is an appeal process available to me but I do not think there's a very good chance of anything changing and the outside chance of an increase to a normal suspension has me very skeptical of doing it. Regardless, I definitely learned my lesson and will not torrent again but am super worried about what this will do for my chances at getting into medical school since I'm pre-med. Is this sort of thing an automatic rejection or would a sound explanation make things OK? Sorry if this post seems long and there's too much of an intro, I'm just super stressed and worried about this. Any replies would be greatly appreciated!

Don’t commit a theft. If you are going to commit a crime, don’t do it on school property. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Have fun!

 

[deleted480308]

It just depends on if the adcom values intellectual property

 

[mrjc]

Don’t commit a theft. If you are going to commit a crime, don’t do it on school property. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Have fun!

Like I said, I'm not pleading not guilty and know what I did wrong, I just think that considering this as two violations is excessive. Either way, I'm curious about whether an explanation during the admissions process can help or if this is an automatic rejection.

 

[deleted480308]

Like I said, I'm not pleading not guilty and know what I did wrong, I just think that considering this as two violations is excessive. Either way, I'm curious about whether an explanation during the admissions process can help or if this is an automatic rejection.

It’s either a killer or it isn’t. “i totally did that” isn’t an explanation that helps

 

[mrjc]

It’s either a killer or it isn’t. “i totally did that” isn’t an explanation that helps

Obviously I wouldn't leave it at that, I'd explain the situation in more detail and talk about what I've learned from all of it. I'm just want to know the likelihood of having the opportunity to explain myself during the application process and how much weight the explanation will have.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Don’t commit a theft. If you are going to commit a crime, don’t do it on school property. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Have fun!

Yes because torrenting something == theft.

I'd appeal asking for a warning. It's reasonable for you to be given notice of a violation prior to you being hit with a suspension for doing it twice. The piracy in itself probably adcoms wouldn't bat an eye, but doing it "twice" as it appears here would raise some eyebrows, and may make you seem irresponsible.

 

[mrjc]

Yes because torrenting something == theft.

I'd appeal asking for a warning. It's reasonable for you to be given notice of a violation prior to you being hit with a suspension for doing it twice. The piracy in itself probably adcoms wouldn't bat an eye, but doing it "twice" as it appears here would raise some eyebrows, and may make you seem irresponsible.

Yeah I've been considering appealing, but I'm concerned that whoever looks at my case might question why its "only" deferred suspension and raise it to suspension. Also the dean I talked to seemed pretty set on deferred suspension so I don't have a lot of confidence in anything changing with an appeal.

 

[907914]

Yes because torrenting something == theft.

I'd appeal asking for a warning. It's reasonable for you to be given notice of a violation prior to you being hit with a suspension for doing it twice. The piracy in itself probably adcoms wouldn't bat an eye, but doing it "twice" as it appears here would raise some eyebrows, and may make you seem irresponsible.

Am I the only one who remembers these adds that were on basically every VHS/DVD in the early 2000s?



But yes, torrenting is a form of piracy which is theft. You are obtaining something for free which otherwise would only be obtainable through purchase.

 

[dr_kateb]

I definitely learned my lesson and will not torrent again

One does not simply never torrent again.

It probably wouldn’t sink your app like a DUI would but you never know.

If you are going to commit a crime, don’t do it on school property.

Depends on if the file is copywrited or not. If it’s open source torrenting it is not a crime. And it’s a crime that’s actually better done on public property. If you spoof your MAC address and go to a place with public WiFi, and so long as you’re not downloading stuff like child pornography, the chances of anyone caring or getting caught is like being struck by lightning.

 

[allantois]

Am I the only one who remembers these adds that were on basically every VHS/DVD in the early 2000s?



But yes, torrenting is a form of piracy which is theft. You are obtaining something for free which otherwise would only be obtainable through purchase.

There are torrent files that are not available for purchase such as games from many years ago

 

[Lucca]

Friendly reminder to keep the thread related to how this incident will affect the OP in admissions and to refrain from debating the ethics of torrenting. Feel free to do that over PM.

OP, I think we’re all going to be speculating here. It’s best you wait for one of the adcoms to chime in. I suspect that it’s not as bad as other IAs you could’ve had but it’s still going to be a red flag.

 

[HomeSkool]

This is a red flag, but I don't think it will sink your app. I suggest you appeal things to your university. Points to make:

1. You admit you made a foolish and dishonest choice, but you thought better of it and stopped the download before it was complete. In shoplifting terms, you put the CD in your pocket but changed your mind and returned it to the shelf before leaving the store.
2. You've only had a single violation. You don't know why the company sent a second complaint because there was only a single offense. You didn't attempt to download it twice, and anyway it's inappropriate for them to send you a single warning but count it as two separate incidents.

Be contrite in your approach. If you get belligerent, things will go poorly for you. Mentally prepare yourself to have to explain it to interviewers anyway, and if they bring it up you should acknowledge the mistake, tell them what you've learned, and make no excuses aside from "I made a poor decision."

But again, I don't think this will sink you.

 

[Med Ed]

OP, I think we’re all going to be speculating here. It’s best you wait for one of the adcoms to chime in. I suspect that it’s not as bad as other IAs you could’ve had but it’s still going to be a red flag.

In my view this is kind of like getting a speeding ticket for 8 mph over the limit. Yes, it's a moving violation. Yes, the signs were clearly posted. Yes, speed kills. But it's not exactly a double homicide.

I can see some adcoms blowing it off without a second thought. I could see some being very sanctimonious about it. Depending on the strength of the OP's app and the makeup of an individual committee, it could either be a mild-moderate negative or neutral.

 

[bioboy23]

This would be horribly stupid if it kept you out of med school. I’m sure even the most righteous of us have pirated a movie or song before (limewire lol). Good luck, OP.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Get a job and pay for stuff.

 

[Dr. Let 'er Buck]

I don't think this will be a killer deal, but it will probably raise some eyebrows. Especially since it was so recent. For example, as an old dude, I played around on Napster 20 years ago. Way before the lawsuits and all of this piracy legislation.

So, everyone simply chuckles and says "those were the days". But now, theoretically, your entire life has been spent in a bubble where DRM and piracy is front and center.

Like was said, own the mistake, be contrite, and expect a few places to get rubbed over it. Many won't, but some will.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

It just depends on if the adcom values intellectual property

My school puts a high value on intellectual property, research, lectures, etc.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

The standard advice for individuals who've been caught doing things they ought not have done is to spend five years or more in some virtuous position of responsibility after graduation. Military service has been recommended, as has Peace Corps, Teach for America, or becoming a teacher in an inner-city area. However, especially if OP is a freshman, this might be overkill. @Goro, @LizzyM, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

[dr_kateb]

The standard advice for individuals who've been caught doing things they ought not have done is to spend five years or more in some virtuous position of responsibility after graduation. Military service has been recommended, as has Peace Corps, Teach for America, or becoming a teacher in an inner-city area. However, especially if OP is a freshman, this might be overkill. @Goro, @LizzyM, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Those are for more serious offenses like cheating on a final, DUI, etc.

Torrenting a game is on the level of getting caught taking food from the dining hall or speeding.

Not really related but what game was it?

 

[LizzyM]

Doing something stupid as a college freshman is almost an unwritten requirement for advancement to sophomore year. Some people get caught, many don't. Adcoms get it. We were all college freshmen once. We know that people do stupid stuff as college freshmen that they would not do as M1s. We don't have to worry about whether we'd be admitting someone who would do this in our community. If I had a vote on the committee considering this med school applicant, I'd be merciful given that the application will be in 2021 or later for an event that occured in 2019 or earlier.

By the way, what is deferred suspension...? Is that like probation where if you screw up again you are suspended or are you suspended later, after the semester is over?

 

[mrjc]

Doing something stupid as a college freshman is almost an unwritten requirement for advancement to sophomore year. Some people get caught, many don't. Adcoms get it. We were all college freshmen once. We know that people do stupid stuff as college freshmen that they would not do as M1s. We don't have to worry about whether we'd be admitting someone who would do this in our community. If I had a vote on the committee considering this med school applicant, I'd be merciful given that the application will be in 2021 or later for an event that occured in 2019 or earlier.

By the way, what is deferred suspension...? Is that like probation where if you screw up again you are suspended or are you suspended later, after the semester is over?

Thanks for your response! It definitely makes me feel a bit better about all this.
Deferred suspension (at least at my university) is a period of time when I have do demonstrate my ability to abide by the code of conduct, which basically means nothing changes for my day-to-day life but if I violate the code again I will be suspended. My deferred suspension has been set to last for the rest of my time at this university.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for your response! It definitely makes me feel a bit better about all this.
Deferred suspension (at least at my university) is a period of time when I have do demonstrate my ability to abide by the code of conduct, which basically means nothing changes for my day-to-day life but if I violate the code again I will be suspended. My deferred suspension has been set to last for the rest of my time at this university.

Well, that's like probation at some other schools. I don't see this as being an impediment to admission to medical school.