Define gunner

[gostudy]

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Should Dirk give out his off-season workout plan so the rest of the NBA will be better? Maybe the rest of the NBA will be better when they all start training to be as good as players like Dirk.

This is not a fair comparison. The point of playing in the NBA is to defeat other teams ie be better than the other team. The point in practicing medicine is to give the best patient care. If the point of medicine was to be more qualified than the next physician then your comparison would hold. But it's not, it's a about the patient. On the other hand, you could compare medicine to being on a team. I'd say it's fair for Dirk to give out his summer workouts to his team so that they are better. It would be rather selfish of Dirk to keep a good thing to himself in the hopes of belittling his teammates. Because in the end, their common goal of defeating their opponents is compromised. By the same token, by preventing the development in medicine of colleagues in class, a gunner compromises the common goal of medicine to defeat the enemy (diseases, injuries, etc.).

 

[CTG]

so now that we've established what a gunner is, what have been some people's personal experiences wiith them, and how have you handled them?

 

[OSUdoc08]

That "famous gunner" also has 3 titles and is the best player in the league.

I'm not sure what your point is?

He's still a jerk......and a rapist.

 

[OSUdoc08]

wow, that's pretty naive. Maybe you should actually do a derm rotation before you start bashing other fields. Anyone can make generalizations about specialties based on stereotypes which are inaccurate and offensive...try not to be that guy.



Want a cookie?

It's a joke. Watch Seinfeld and don't take everything so seriously.

 

[OSUdoc08]

so now that we've established what a gunner is, what have been some people's personal experiences wiith them, and how have you handled them?

I like to send them nasty emails.

 

[Brainsucker]

Agree with this. A gunner is not merely someone who doesn't share their own resources. In law, the classic example of a gunner was someone who would run to the library immediately after a research assignment was given, find and read the applicable cases, and then hide the books (or worse rip the pages out of the books) so no one else could do the assignment adequately. Similarly in med school if someone shared resources for distribution via a computer, a true gunner would find a way to delete the files after their own use, or better yet alter those files to provide false info. A gunner might remove some nerves or vasculature on a prosected cadaver, after learning the structures, so that no one else could. Or a gunner might happilly create and distribute resources that focused on non-essential things, or incorrect information in hopes to mislead others. Gunners will also find a way to heckle and embarrass students doing presentations, either by asking extremely complex questions, or chiming in with anything the presenter failed to mention as a "huge oversight".
As others have noted, the term gunner is used frequently and inappropriately. But if you want the true definition it is someone who takes an unethical step beyond just studying hard. It is a cancer of every professional school.

Damn. I'm glad I didn't go to law school. None of that stuff (that I'm aware) has happened at my med school. I guess third year will be the time to see people really jumping all over each other to get the attending's attention. Hopefully, I'll get a better rotation group than that, though.

 

[newguy357]

The key for your class should be that EVERYONE does well in classes, EVERYONE does well on boards, and EVERYONE gets the competitive residency of their choice.

It should not be that YOU do better than EVERYONE ELSE and that they ALL do as poorly as possible.

You're using multiple definitions and not encompassing all people. Why should my highest goal be that everyone in my class does well? Shouldn't my highest goal be to do as well as I can do? Just because I do as well as I can doesn't mean I'm sabotaging others. If I work hard for myself (without harming others) then everyone must work harder, and as a result your goal will be realized: everyone will do better in classes, everyone will do better on boards, and everyone will get into better residencies--because they have to try harder to keep up.

Doing well for yourself does not equal doing harm to others. There is a large portion of people who fall in this category that you don't acknowledge.

 

[Brainsucker]

You're using multiple definitions and not encompassing all people. Why should my highest goal be that everyone in my class does well? Shouldn't my highest goal be to do as well as I can do? Just because I do as well as I can doesn't mean I'm sabotaging others. If I work hard for myself (without harming others) then everyone must work harder, and as a result your goal will be realized: everyone will do better in classes, everyone will do better on boards, and everyone will get into better residencies--because they have to try harder to keep up.

Doing well for yourself does not equal doing harm to others. There is a large portion of people who fall in this category that you don't acknowledge.

I think he means that medical school would be easier and more friendly if people cooperated.

 

[Med_Leviathan]

So...what med schools have lots of gunners, and which ones don't? Does anyone know about UMass?

 

[PostalWookie]

We have old exams posted on our student government website. About 3 days before a recent exam, the website went down, and most people didn't get a chance to download a copy of the previous exam. Now the normal thing to do is for the people who downloaded the old test before the website crashed would be to send it out to the rest of the class. A gunner would not do that, instead holding on to the exam and trying to gain an extra advantage that they did not earn.

Note that this is different from not sending out your own study notes. In fact, most of the study notes people send out to the class are only useful to the person making them, but the gesture is still appreciated.

To restate my point, a gunner is someone who tries to gain an unfair advantage, not just someone who studies hard and does well. From my experience, few people hold grudges against classmates who study their asses off and do well on exams. However, people in medical school are also very good about figuring out who is likely to try to upstage them during a rotation or to sleep with a resident to get a higher grade.

Also, did anyone else notice that most gunners are female?

 

[tcar18]

so then what is a sniper?

 

[qr321]

I'm not sure what your point is?

He's still a jerk......and a rapist.

Your analogy was very very weak.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You're using multiple definitions and not encompassing all people. Why should my highest goal be that everyone in my class does well? Shouldn't my highest goal be to do as well as I can do? Just because I do as well as I can doesn't mean I'm sabotaging others. If I work hard for myself (without harming others) then everyone must work harder, and as a result your goal will be realized: everyone will do better in classes, everyone will do better on boards, and everyone will get into better residencies--because they have to try harder to keep up.

Doing well for yourself does not equal doing harm to others. There is a large portion of people who fall in this category that you don't acknowledge.

By definition, a gunner both does well for themselves and makes it more difficult for others.

If you do not make it more difficult for others, then you are not a gunner, and should not even being arguing with me.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you do not make it more difficult for others, then you are not a gunner, and should not even being arguing with me.

Maybe he's baiting you to keep you on SDN when you should be studying.

 

[Chronic Student]

Law2Doc, that was classic. Thanks, I needed to laugh after all the WCC's, I had to do today.

-Mike

 

[MarzMD]

I D.O. too.

🙂

LOW BLOW....lol

Anyway, if I went to a med school that was graded on a curve, I wouldnt share any material I had except with my close friends/study buddies. Why the hell would I take the extra energy/time (even if it takes 5 seconds) to help everyone else out? That would just be ******ed. Does that make me a gunner?

 

[SeventhSon]

define gunner

ME

 

[Law2Doc]

Anyway, if I went to a med school that was graded on a curve, I wouldnt share any material I had except with my close friends/study buddies. Why the hell would I take the extra energy/time (even if it takes 5 seconds) to help everyone else out? That would just be ******ed. Does that make me a gunner?

Not necessarilly. However, those you shared with might reciprocate.

 

[MarzMD]

Not necessarilly. However, those you shared with might reciprocate.

No, I understand that. In undergrad I shared anything I had with anyone I even talk to that mentioned studying for a particular test. If I had a good anatomy website, and a classmate was talking about having a hard time learning a concept, I would send them a link. However, I would not simply email it out to everybody.

 

[Shades McCool]

We are graded in normitive quartiles so it is rough. Once again I think that competition is good in school. It keeps everyone trying to improve themselves.

 

[bigfrank]

Maybe he's baiting you to keep you on SDN when you should be studying.

Classic post. I don't know any other M-2's beside OSUDOC that have time to post DOZENS of times per day on here.

Maybe his school isn't terribly challenging?

 

[Taus]

Classic post. I don't know any other M-2's beside OSUDOC that have time to post DOZENS of times per day on here.

Maybe his school isn't terribly challenging?

or Goljan is just that good... 😀

 

[OSUdoc08]

Classic post. I don't know any other M-2's beside OSUDOC that have time to post DOZENS of times per day on here.

Maybe his school isn't terribly challenging?

I've been finished with the MS-2 year for 2 weeks now.

 

[PoorMD]

I've been finished with the MS-2 year for 2 weeks now.

I think we all agree that a gunner is someone who just downright takes things too seriously, stays the extra 15 minutes in the prof's office asking the same questions over and over in different ways, to solidify the material in their head (meanwhile three other students are waiting to see the prof). These are the same people who end up gunning for neurosurg or derm and ultimately consider themselves to be the supreme being on earth..

Another 'type' of gunner, the oft-heralded "covert gunner," is one who appears not to be a gunner at all. In fact this type hides their motive behind statements such as "Im so behind." but then in subsequent conversations about the current material, they rant on about the inconsistencies in the professors' notes and how the book had a far better explanation on page 1820 figure 5.6..

(removed tasteless comments about bigfrank and osudoc)

But I digress.. 😴

 

[Rafa]

Wow. No one's pulling any punches in this thread. Is this part of an annual tradition of honesty on SDN? E-stab your least favorite user? Easy, y'all..

 

[DrMom]

Lets avoid personal attacks, please, as they are a TOS violation.

 

[Mayhem]

Well since you asked for examples I'll give you two:

1. It is almost a rule that nobody at my med school does labs. There's a whole other programme for physician scientists and we're not in it. So, of course, people simple get the labs from the upper years and paraphrase the important points. In the first year during the biochem module I had all the labs because I had done biochem at the same school and the labs hadn't changed. I had no problem lending my labs out so people could photocopy it or whatever. Come 2nd year and we're doing pharmacology, but this time I have no labs. So I check around and even though I know for a fact that many people have labs I was not able to find one (How I knew: If you live on hall then labs are passed down plus I asked many upper years who told me exactly who in my class they had given it to). This is the gunner mentality. I'm not saying they owe me anything but come on they are labs that you got from somebody else. I mean, I could have been mean in year 1 since I had to actually do the biochem labs the year before plus the labs in med school are worth 5% to your final grade on a good day and most time nothing.

Edit: Forgot to add how I handled it. I went to the lab demonstrator who told me that pharm labs are worth squat so I grabbed my Lippincott's and bitched together a discussion in 5 mins. Sad part is I still got a higher grade than most of those with the labs before hand.

2. Close to the end of our first year the faculty noticed that they had forgotten to schedule an OSPE (our year was the start of the new curriculum and I guess it slipped them). So, they contacted the class President and gave him a choice 1. Either do the OSPE in 2 weeks or 2. Do no OSPE at all. Now, I don't know about you, but 2 weeks is not enough time for me to study all the Anatomy, Phys., Pharm., Biochem., and Microbiology taught in one year so what did our President say...Yes. This too is the gunner mentality. He knew most of us would fail and still he said yes. And the worse part is THEY GAVE HIM A CHOICE! If they had forced us to do it, then I'd piss and moan then go collect my 9.5% but they didn't force him. They gave the dude a choice and he chose to screw us over. Of course, we politely (at the top of our voices and with many 4 letter words) explained to him why we weren't doing it and why he needed to go back to the Faculty and tell them that he cannot make that decision for 150 other people without consulting us.

 

[PostalWookie]

Another important thing to note is that the gunners are not always the smartest people in the class. In fact, they are so agressive because otherwise they can't compete. I remember even back in undergrad, the most hardcore premeds that everyone hated were never the ones at the top of the class.

 

[medhacker]

It's entertaining to read all the excuses some give (here and the world in general) for being selfish with their classmates ..... 😴 👎

 

[dara678]

i thought snipers were those people who are always like "oh i never study," and blah blah but who actually study really hard and try to take advantage of other people ... they're like in cognito gunners.

i think you have to be pretty messed up though to try to ruin stuff for your classmates - doesn't it feel better to do well on your own merits and not by tricks?

 

[Rafa]

i thought snipers were those people who are always like "oh i never study," and blah blah but who actually study really hard and try to take advantage of other people ... they're like in cognito gunners.

Snipers are people who excel without hindering their classmates. They don't appear out of the ordinary, they don't brag about how much they do (or don't) study; they're (as the term implies) invisible. They don't even seem particularly smart, since they won't talk about grades or classes without provocation. It's just quiet...and then BAM! 99 on a Neuroanatomy test in a class mean of 85. Those are snipers. There's no malice implied in the term; it's one of admiration/respect.

 

[MirrorTodd]

One shot, one kill.

 

[reven]

Snipers are people who excel without hindering their classmates. They don't appear out of the ordinary, they don't brag about how much they do (or don't) study; they're (as the term implies) invisible. They don't even seem particularly smart, since they won't talk about grades or classes without provocation. It's just quiet...and then BAM! 99 on a Neuroanatomy test in a class mean of 85. Those are snipers. There's no malice implied in the term; it's one of admiration/respect.

the sniper sounds very sexy

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I heard there were ninjas too... somebody tell me about the ninjas!!! 😀

(btw... I'm lovin the animosity on this thread )

 

[cdql]

I heard there were ninjas too... somebody tell me about the ninjas!!!

Ninjas are nothing more than sneaky gunners.

They sneak up behind you as you walk to the library, deliver a swift blow to your shin while screaming "HIIIIYAHHHHHHHH", and as you try to get up still recovering from the shock, they shred your notes with their secret agent ninja stars.

In order to protect yourself against ninjas, I recommend being proactive.

If anyone dares to walk behind you, immediately strike at them with a nonthreatening but firm "BOOOOYAAAAA".

If they fall, be sure to hit them until they cannot get up.

If they don't fall and hit you back, I cannot help you anymore. Please consult student health services.

 

[tupac_don]

Ninjas are nothing more than sneaky gunners.

They sneak up behind you as you walk to the library, deliver a swift blow to your shin while screaming "HIIIIYAHHHHHHHH", and as you try to get up still recovering from the shock, they shred your notes with their secret agent ninja stars.

In order to protect yourself against ninjas, I recommend being proactive.

If anyone dares to walk behind you, immediately strike at them with a nonthreatening but firm "BOOOOYAAAAA".

If they fall, be sure to hit them until they cannot get up.

If they don't fall and hit you back, I cannot help you anymore. Please consult student health services.

How about Secret service gunners

 

[cdql]

Let's break it down.

Secret Service Agents are defined as people who supposedly serve for a higher cause (protecting the baboon who is running the big show) but are actually just pompous asses who think they're cool because they get to wear the cool suits, the loopy earpiece, and carry around a big gun.

So to relate it back to our scenario of medical school, Secret Service gunners are defined as gunners who purportedly serve for a higher cause (helping people) but are actually just pompous asses who think they're cool becase they wear scrubs all the time to lecture, relisten to lecture after lecture on an iPod, and carry around 8 inch binders to study from.

And now if you'll excuse me, I have to go load today's lectures into iTunes 🙂

 

[Dr. V]

Simply put, if you are unwilling to share your own stuff that does't make you a gunner. Maybe stingy or insecure, but not a gunner.

If you intentionally hurt other people, keep old exams and such a secret to sabotage the other people in your class etc, then you are a gunner.

Our school takes care of the most obnoxious gunners and luckily my class only had 1, 2 at the most and those would be mild compared to other schools. Their gunning consisted of arguing against throwing out a poorly worded question or complaining to the instructors that the exam was too easy.

Coincidentally or not our class finished as the best class ever in the history of the school. Humm, good cooperation and minimal impact from gunners = unheard of success for the entire class. What a concept. Glad my med school didn't condone gunners. It shows in two ways. One, when they picked our class very, very few even had a tendancy to be gunners. Two, they made it clear in no uncertian terms that they would not put up with it.

One from the class ahead of us stole the keys for the cross sections in Anatomy. She tried to improve her grade and hurt the entire class by being the only person that could study. The anatomy department decided NOT to include cross sections on the exam for that reason and investigated. The gunner was kicked out of school. Dishonesty is dishonesty whether you are using it to improve your grade or not. Bye bye and good riddance.

Now obviously we had some very, very intelligent people in our class otherwise we could have never set the records but gunning was pretty much obsolete in our class.

 

[PoorMD]

One from the class ahead of us stole the keys for the cross sections in Anatomy. She tried to improve her grade and hurt the entire class by being the only person that could study. The anatomy department decided NOT to include cross sections on the exam for that reason and investigated. The gunner was kicked out of school. Dishonesty is dishonesty whether you are using it to improve your grade or not. Bye bye and good riddance.

rofl that's awesome, she got what she deserved! and kicked out of school (i think you might label what she did as cheating).

 

[adiddas125]

Wow... Ive been at a real competitive undergraduate school with many competitive people/premeds yet this is the first time I have run across the term... "Gunner". That term sounds a bit...

Dont you usually just call them hard core? Whatever happened to hard core, or intense?

 

[BlazerMed]

Wow... Ive been at a real competitive undergraduate school with many competitive people/premeds yet this is the first time I have run across the term... "Gunner". That term sounds a bit...

Dont you usually just call them hard core? Whatever happened to hard core, or intense?

Gunner goes beyond hard-core and intense. The difference between a gunner and someone that studies their ass off is that the gunner seeks to weaken his competition.

 

[adiddas125]

Gunner goes beyond hard-core and intense. The difference between a gunner and someone that studies their ass off is that the gunner seeks to weaken his competition.

Well then I'd just call them an ass.

 

[Blackstars]

Gunner goes beyond hard-core and intense. The difference between a gunner and someone that studies their ass off is that the gunner seeks to weaken his competition.

I'll have to disagree with your assessment of a gunner, often a person who studies hard is labeled a gunner or other deragotory terms in an attempt to demoralize the work ethic of the "supposed gunner".

I dont know why hardworkers are often looked down upon, which is why I often choose not to reveal my study habits, for fear of being unfairly labeled a gunner.

 

[adiddas125]

Simply put, if you are unwilling to share your own stuff that does't make you a gunner. Maybe stingy or insecure, but not a gunner.

If you intentionally hurt other people, keep old exams and such a secret to sabotage the other people in your class etc, then you are a gunner.

Our school takes care of the most obnoxious gunners and luckily my class only had 1, 2 at the most and those would be mild compared to other schools. Their gunning consisted of arguing against throwing out a poorly worded question or complaining to the instructors that the exam was too easy.

Coincidentally or not our class finished as the best class ever in the history of the school. Humm, good cooperation and minimal impact from gunners = unheard of success for the entire class. What a concept. Glad my med school didn't condone gunners. It shows in two ways. One, when they picked our class very, very few even had a tendancy to be gunners. Two, they made it clear in no uncertian terms that they would not put up with it.

One from the class ahead of us stole the keys for the cross sections in Anatomy. She tried to improve her grade and hurt the entire class by being the only person that could study. The anatomy department decided NOT to include cross sections on the exam for that reason and investigated. The gunner was kicked out of school. Dishonesty is dishonesty whether you are using it to improve your grade or not. Bye bye and good riddance.

Now obviously we had some very, very intelligent people in our class otherwise we could have never set the records but gunning was pretty much obsolete in our class.

These people are always going to be there in life. You will have these people who with hold info, keep things to themselves in order to get a competitive advantage, or whatever...

For me I could care less if a person was a gunner because its pointless to worry or concern yourself with what another person is doing or not doint. Just do your own thing, whether it be slacking off or working your ass off.

 

[Sammich81]

What have been some of my experiences with gunners?

1. I was sick and my attending sent me home after I had pre-rounded. I missed 1 1/2 days. When I came back, a gunner came up to me, waited for residents to be within earshot and said, "Well you must not have been that sick...I heard you were out at a party!" I gave him a strange look and said, "Yeah, that's exactly where I was if sleeping on my couch is a party."
2. Rounding with a gunner who interrupts while you're answering pimp questions: beat them at it by answering first, or let them go ahead and interrupt, because attendings/residents notice and think they're completely douches.
3. Studying with a gunner who is also a friend: yeah, they can get annoying, but if they like you and will help you study, they can be great resources.

As for why being a gunner is not just a matter of keeping all your pretty little review sheets, your hard-earned knowledge to your oh-so-brilliant self, because you are the one who put in all that precious time and effort, and you can't imagine ever needing the help of anyone else--well, go ahead, be all Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged libertarians. But everyone comes to a point in medicine, whether in medical school, residency, fellowship, or as an attending, when they realize that they cannot learn it all, know it all themselves. You simply do not have the time to read all the articles or do all the research. But you can learn from each other, so if you are willing to share and not be such a self-righteous, arrogant jerkoff...you make each other better physicians. You advance the fund of knowledge in medicine. And people actually like you, because you play nice.

 

[BlazerMed]

I'll have to disagree with your assessment of a gunner, often a person who studies hard is labeled a gunner or other deragotory terms in an attempt to demoralize the work ethic of the "supposed gunner".

I dont know why hardworkers are often looked down upon, which is why I often choose not to reveal my study habits, for fear of being unfairly labeled a gunner.

As has been said multiple times in this thread, most people overuse the term gunner and tend to use it to refer to anyone that scores better than them, to (using your words) demoralize the work ethic.

My point is this: a hardworker is NOT a gunner, they are just a hard-worker. Nothing wrong with that, nothing to look down on. A gunner is someone that cuts down others while trying to lift him(or her)self up.

 

[Hoya11]

As has been said multiple times in this thread, most people overuse the term gunner and tend to use it to refer to anyone that scores better than them, to (using your words) demoralize the work ethic.

My point is this: a hardworker is NOT a gunner, they are just a hard-worker. Nothing wrong with that, nothing to look down on. A gunner is someone that cuts down others while trying to lift him(or her)self up.

To me, a gunner is different from a hard worker because they dont complain about it. They are like a traitor to their med school classmates regardless of how well they do. Everyone else is going for the P and trying to survive, and bonding by saying "oh many wasnt that hard, yeah I had no idea". But it just comes so easy to them, its no big deal, just another week locked in my room studying. WHat else is there to do? I mean god we are going to be doctors do you know how serious that is? Youd better keep studying..

Its like you are joining a frat and being hazed and the gunner is like, come on guys, its fun!. Just not a real human

 

[Law2Doc]

I'll have to disagree with your assessment of a gunner, often a person who studies hard is labeled a gunner or other deragotory terms in an attempt to demoralize the work ethic of the "supposed gunner".

I dont know why hardworkers are often looked down upon, which is why I often choose not to reveal my study habits, for fear of being unfairly labeled a gunner.

Agree with Blazermed. You statement basically supports the definition of gunner in this thread, by asserting it is an "unfair" and "derogatory" label. A gunner is someone who undermines others to get ahead. Someone who doesn't undermine but does well often gets incorrectly labeled a gunner. That's why it's unfair. But that doesn't conflict with the definition as given in this thread (which is what the term actually means).

 

[mendel121]

I'll have to disagree with your assessment of a gunner, often a person who studies hard is labeled a gunner or other deragotory terms in an attempt to demoralize the work ethic of the "supposed gunner".

I dont know why hardworkers are often looked down upon, which is why I often choose not to reveal my study habits, for fear of being unfairly labeled a gunner.

Gunners always say that

 

[CTG]

Edit: Forgot to add how I handled it. I went to the lab demonstrator who told me that pharm labs are worth squat so I grabbed my Lippincott's and bitched together a discussion in 5 mins. Sad part is I still got a higher grade than most of those with the labs before hand.

QUOTE]

Way to go!!! 👍 👍 🙂