DEI is ruining UCLA. Seems the DEI pendulum swings too far the wrong way.

[deleted1183938]

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Well stated and much respect to you. I’m sincerely happy that you’re doing so well. Congrats and continued good luck.

You do realize that lots of people get in to medical school like this correct?
Rich, URMs should be treated the same as rich White/Asian kids. It makes sense in our heads sure, but the fact remains that while Black people make up 13-14% of the population Black doctors only account for 5% of the Doctor population.

Does the rich Black doctor who grew up in upper class Atlanta, or DMV have aspirations to go work in the inner city and serve the black community? From what I have seen, and most likely, nope. They want to stay in the upper class bubble. However, there are things they understand about black culture and black communication and racial disparities and racism that a White person will never understand as evidenced by some of the ridiculous comments on this thread i.e disparities don’t even exist. So we cannot discount the studies showing that physician concordance in the Black community leads to better outcomes because of this shared racial experience. Every hospital no matter how wealthy has its share of Black and Brown patients. You can’t tell me just because someone is rich and black they are immune to racism. The racism that a poor white person will never experience. That class divide only protects rich Black/Brown people to a limit.

There needs to be more of a focus of socio economic status in the application process. That much we can all agree on. However since admins are purportedly lazy and since too many poor URMs don’t have the necessary resources or encouragement to apply in the first place, this is what we are going to have to work with for now.

 

[deleted1183938]

Look I live in the real world. I have seen that wealth and privilege do matter. The kid of an Orthopedic Surgeon (I know well) was given so much money by his dad that there is no way way he couldn't succeed. This included the most expensive private schools (Secondary and College), multiple tutors, personal Mcat tutoring for 2 years, 6 months in Africa for his "Gap" year, 1 year in a laboratory while Dad funded his lifestyle, etc. I would guess his father spent $850,000 getting this kid INTO Med School. There is no way any poor AA kid could compete against these resources. My point is the playing field definitely isn't level.

Glad you live in the real world.

 

[deleted1183938]

I agree that a candidate that has overcome adversity is an attractive candidate that I tend to give stronger consideration to. However, if they are fourth quartile class rank, held back a year, failed a step exam, or have negative/concerning comments on the Dean's letter, that is not typically a risk I would take, no matter how much I like them as a person, or their race, gender, or socioeconomic status or how compelling their "I overcame" story is. It is almost a guarantee that their academic struggles will persist to the next level (residency) and they will eventually become that resident that can't seem to pass the boards.

I know someone exactly like this. Literally fits all those boxes. Can’t pass their boards. And stuck practicing in the outpatient setting.
Except for the fact that they moved back to their mostly Hispanic City and practice there. They filled a need in their community for a physician although they cannot work in a hospital due to no boards. A place most doctors who aren’t of the heritage would not willingly move and stay to work.

But this is not the norm. These people usually fail completely. I would venture to say the fact that they cannot work in a hospital where the sicker patients are is not completely filling a need but they have been able to bring their family up from lower class to upper middle class and are back in the community of their people.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I know someone exactly like this. Literally fits all those boxes. Can’t pass their boards. And stuck practicing in the outpatient setting.
Except for the fact that they moved back to their mostly Hispanic City and practice there. They filled a need in their community for a physician although they cannot work in a hospital due to no boards. A place most doctors who aren’t of the heritage would not willingly move and stay to work.

But this is not the norm. These people usually fail completely. I would venture to say the fact that they cannot work in a hospital where the sicker patients are is not completely filling a need but they have been able to bring their family up from lower class to upper middle class and are back in the community of their people.

I don’t disagree. But the program is graded on board certification rates. All it takes is a couple of candidates that are higher risk academically for a program to find themselves with suddenly borderline board certification rates and under scrutiny of the RRC.

 

[aneftp]

What we are discussing is "raw talent" sufficient enough to get through the Med School Curriculum, Residency and be a benefit to the community as a practicing physician. The concept behind "holistic" admissions is to account for a lot of variables in the selection process.
i certainly agree with giving URM a shot at admissions if they can meet the basic standards; I am not certain what that standard is for each school but I would want it to be reasonable based on the median Mcat and GPA. I also think taking into account the economic advantages (or disadvantages) of each applicant should play a more important role than race.

It’s too much work to consider financial means of an URM. Their initial cut off is strictly based on a pool of URM to get to a certain number.

You do realize that lots of people get in to medical school like this correct?
Rich, URMs should be treated the same as rich White/Asian kids. It makes sense in our heads sure, but the fact remains that while Black people make up 13-14% of the population Black doctors only account for 5% of the Doctor population.

Does the rich Black doctor who grew up in upper class Atlanta, or DMV have aspirations to go work in the inner city and serve the black community? From what I have seen, and most likely, nope. They want to stay in the upper class bubble. However, there are things they understand about black culture and black communication and racial disparities and racism that a White person will never understand as evidenced by some of the ridiculous comments on this thread i.e disparities don’t even exist. So we cannot discount the studies showing that physician concordance in the Black community leads to better outcomes because of this shared racial experience. Every hospital no matter how wealthy has its share of Black and Brown patients. You can’t tell me just because someone is rich and black they are immune to racism. The racism that a poor white person will never experience. That class divide only protects rich Black/Brown people to a limit.

There needs to be more of a focus of socio economic status in the application process. That much we can all agree on. However since admins are purportedly lazy and since too many poor URMs don’t have the necessary resources or encouragement to apply in the first place, this is what we are going to have to work with for now.

just because blacks make up 13% of the USA population does not mean blacks should be 13% of the USA doctor population

Same can be said of judges? Blacks only make up 5% of lawyers in the USA.

Now let’s turn the tables around. The Jewish community (now being Jewish isn’t necessary a race) but Jews over represented certain industry in power such as the entertainment and financial sectors. Jewish people make up 2% of the population but likely control 50% of the entertainment industry. How do we compete or decease the leverage of the the Jewish in the financial and entertainment industry? Good luck with that.

 

[deleted1183938]

I don’t disagree. But the program is graded on board certification rates. All it takes is a couple of candidates that are higher risk academically for a program to find themselves with suddenly borderline board certification rates and under scrutiny of the RRC.

Totally agree with you. The overwhelming majority of these students do well and hang with the pack. But some just aren’t cut out for the work.
After being given a whole year off you think this person would have taken things more seriously. They really didn’t. I was surprised at their poor study habits honestly and frustrated when they would try and study with me because they goofed off too much.
Only got one interview for residency and went ahead and matched.
Not surprising they never passed boards.
But they are serving a need in their community even though another school might have kicked them out.

 

[deleted1183938]

It’s too much work to consider financial means of an URM. Their initial cut off is strictly based on a pool of URM to get to a certain number.

just because blacks make up 13% of the USA population does not mean blacks should be 13% of the USA doctor population

Same can be said of judges? Blacks only make up 5% of lawyers in the USA.

Now let’s turn the tables around. The Jewish community (now being Jewish isn’t necessary a race) but Jews over represented certain industry in power such as the entertainment and financial sectors. Jewish people make up 2% of the population but likely control 50% of the entertainment industry. How do we compete or decease the leverage of the the Jewish in the financial and entertainment industry? Good luck with that.

I decided a few days ago that you aren’t worth my energy.
And it’s Black People. Hispanic people. White people.
Good day to you.

 

[deleted1183938]

I don't agree that poor people have some inherent desirability that makes them deserving of special consideration.

Let me try wasting a little energy here.
It’s not about having inherent ability, it’s about not having access to all the things that a rich kid has.
Good schools with good ratios of teacher to students, tutors, enrichment activities, not having to work and go to school, not having to assist in rearing younger siblings, access to role models, access to AP classes, having enough to eat. Those type of things that many upper middle class and wealthy people take for granted.

 

[cchoukal]

Jews over represented certain industry in power such as the entertainment and financial sectors. Jewish people make up 2% of the population but likely control 50% of the entertainment industry.

 

[triggermaster]

just because blacks make up 13% of the USA population does not mean blacks should be 13% of the USA doctor population

Same can be said of judges? Blacks only make up 5% of lawyers in the USA.

Now let’s turn the tables around. The Jewish community (now being Jewish isn’t necessary a race) but Jews over represented certain industry in power such as the entertainment and financial sectors. Jewish people make up 2% of the population but likely control 50% of the entertainment industry. How do we compete or decease the leverage of the the Jewish in the financial and entertainment industry? Good luck with that.

You left out Biden’s cabinet 😂

 

[aneftp]

Good for this lady to keep trucking along to get board certified in ob gyn.

But read the comments. She took mcat and step 1/2/3 multiple times. Got into ob gyn residency and pass her boards. For that, I commend her. I understand she has gone through difficult times including the passing of her husband.

But I have my serious doubts a regular white or Asian male who did the same thing would have gotten into any residency. I’m not even sure they a chance to get into medical school either.

Maybe she should be the poster child why DEI works. Joe Biden when he runs for re election in swing states like Georgia, PA, Ohio, Michigan etc should promote her as part of his campaign.

 

[deleted1183938]

Good for this lady to keep trucking along to get board certified in ob gyn.

But read the comments. She took mcat and step 1/2/3 multiple times. Got into ob gyn residency and pass her boards. For that, I commend her. I understand she has gone through difficult times including the passing of her husband.

But I have my serious doubts a regular white or Asian male who did the same thing would have gotten into any residency. I’m not even sure they a chance to get into medical school either.

Maybe she should be the poster child why DEI works. Joe Biden when he runs for re election in swing states like Georgia, PA, Ohio, Michigan etc should promote her as part of his campaign.

I had no idea you could take board exams that many times honestly.
Zero idea. And I am all about DEI. I thought the limit was 3x! To be honest, I would be embarrassed. I am surprised she didn’t drop out at some point or was fired. She must have had the most supportive School Dean and PD.
How in the world was she able to pass her specialty boards on the First Try? This does not compute.
Her Premed Grades also consisted of Cs and Ds. Wow!
I wonder what her marriage was like.

 

[JoelJoel84]

Good for this lady to keep trucking along to get board certified in ob gyn.

But read the comments. She took mcat and step 1/2/3 multiple times. Got into ob gyn residency and pass her boards. For that, I commend her. I understand she has gone through difficult times including the passing of her husband.

But I have my serious doubts a regular white or Asian male who did the same thing would have gotten into any residency. I’m not even sure they a chance to get into medical school either.

Maybe she should be the poster child why DEI works. Joe Biden when he runs for re election in swing states like Georgia, PA, Ohio, Michigan etc should promote her as part of his campaign.

Jesus, she has a “travel uniform” to wear even when vacationing due to her severe anxiety , “paralysis”, and ADHD symptoms.

I thought most of our OBs were incompetent , but I can’t imagine her booking an emergency case overnight and me being comfortable.

Some people shouldn’t be doctors, and obviously she is one of them. As hinted by the USMLE like 8x.

Her poor patients.

 

[aneftp]

I gotta give the woman credit. She’s trying to find extra ways to make money by promoting herself. There can be different levels of intelligence. She’s got 58k followers. So she’s doing something right. She may have better business sense that many of us.

Some “dumb” blonde who’s 23 yo in LA makes tik tok food reviews videos and pulls 20k a month on social media.

 

[deleted1183938]

I gotta give the woman credit. She’s trying to find extra ways to make money by promoting herself. There can be different levels of intelligence. She’s got 58k followers. So she’s doing something right. She may have better business sense that many of us.

Some “dumb” blonde who’s 23 yo in LA makes tik tok food reviews videos and pulls 20k a month on social media.

I don’t think IG pays its people anymore. But they can get partnerships deals.

 

[pgg]

I had no idea you could take board exams that many times honestly.

A while back (10 years ago? maybe?) there was a push by ABMS member boards to standardize the overall process for board certification. Now, the ABA and I think most other boards just have a simple rule that you have 7 years from when you complete training to complete all of the requirements.

So I guess you could fail one component 5 times and then pass and still get certified within the window.

If not, you're out of the exam system and need to reestablish eligibility before you can try again.

I'm not clear on what reestablishing eligibility entails but presumably there's some mechanism that involves finding a spot as a super-resident at a program to get remedial training.

 

[deleted1183938]

A while back (10 years ago? maybe?) there was a push by ABMS member boards to standardize the overall process for board certification. Now, the ABA and I think most other boards just have a simple rule that you have 7 years from when you complete training to complete all of the requirements.

So I guess you could fail one component 5 times and then pass and still get certified within the window.

If not, you're out of the exam system and need to reestablish eligibility before you can try again.

I'm not clear on what reestablishing eligibility entails but presumably there's some mechanism that involves finding a spot as a super-resident at a program to get remedial training.

I don’t think our school allowed us to take it more than two times? Maybe I am wrong.
I never knew anyone to take them that many times.

 

[operaman]

Yeah I think my school imposed some limits - 2x for S1/2 if memory serves. She actually did pass both of those on the second try. Her S3 took more times but you’re already a resident at that point so if her program was supportive and her state licensing rules allowed it, it could be done.

She passed her specialty boards first time - no easy feat. If she really does have ADHD and some personal life struggles I think it explains things a bit: struggles with focusing on test material when also being tasked with other things. So mcat during undergrad and s3 while being a busy intern were especially tough; the other steps not quite so bad. After 4 years of residency focused on specialty material, boards were probably more doable.

I think key for patient care is the same we all face: whether she knows her own limitations. Not everyone can be 99th percentile, and there are plenty of fine docs who deliver good care because they know their limits and when to ask for help.

 

[pgg]

I don’t think our school allowed us to take it more than two times? Maybe I am wrong.
I never knew anyone to take them that many times.

Oh I see you meant USMLE

I think it's entirely up to individual schools how many times they let people recycle years or delay advancement to retake a USMLE step. At some point I guess the student would stop being able to pay tuition to remediate and keep trying though, even if the school let them stay.

Nightmare scenario. Years of undergrad and med school debt, non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, no degree, no realistic path toward repayment.


Edit - just looked at the USMLE web site, and they do have a hard limit:

The total number of attempts allowed per Step is four (4).
If you have attempted a Step four or more times, including incomplete attempts, and have not passed, you are ineligible to apply for any Step in the USMLE exam sequence. Attempts at the formerly administered Step 2 CS count toward the limit.

 

[Twiggidy]

Pretty weak evidence as presented that affirmative action (or whatever OP thinks DEI is - DEI wasn't mentioned in the article aside from it being Lucero's job title) is causing this. If you look at their graphs there has been an increase in rotation failure rates since 2020 but the article (and OP) is entirely speculating on the cause. It would be interesting to see failure rates prior to that period to see if this is truly an outlier or if there is a general trend, hard to lay the blame of entire class scores on one person getting hired. It's not like AA/DEI/racial consideration practices have only been around for the past 4 years, notwithstanding CA law.

A med student not knowing a major artery is not an indication of a "failing medical school", lol.

All that said, it is wild to me that about 50% of a class failed Peds, EM, FM and IM in 2022-2023.

View attachment 387119

I 100% agree. Not the most unbiased article and doesn't seem to be the most unbiased website.

If you're telling me HALF the class is failing and then wanting to blame DEI, then you better tell me that all those students were the URM in the next sentence because according to the class demographics URM barely make up half the class.

And as you said about the surgeon in the OR, and the article saying students don't know lab tests, or don't know how to present....this is a reflection of teaching and I'll die on that hill. It's as much a lack of effort on the student (not enough reading) as it is on the faculty (residents) not doing enough teaching and I'd say the later reflect department culture and possible burnout

 

[deleted1130227]

Now let’s turn the tables around. The Jewish community (now being Jewish isn’t necessary a race) but Jews over represented certain industry in power such as the entertainment and financial sectors. Jewish people make up 2% of the population but likely control 50% of the entertainment industry. How do we compete or decease the leverage of the the Jewish in the financial and entertainment industry? Good luck with that.

Good thing that we control the media. Imagine what people would say about us if we didn't.

 

[deleted1183938]

Good for this lady to keep trucking along to get board certified in ob gyn.

But read the comments. She took mcat and step 1/2/3 multiple times. Got into ob gyn residency and pass her boards. For that, I commend her. I understand she has gone through difficult times including the passing of her husband.

But I have my serious doubts a regular white or Asian male who did the same thing would have gotten into any residency. I’m not even sure they a chance to get into medical school either.

Maybe she should be the poster child why DEI works. Joe Biden when he runs for re election in swing states like Georgia, PA, Ohio, Michigan etc should promote her as part of his campaign.

I have thought about your comment about her being the poster child for DEI. It’s quite interesting considering she is at least two to three standard deviations below the norm of a typical DEI applicant. Retaking exams this many times and getting into medschool with multiple Ds and Cs in premed classes is not the norm for URMs.

So it’s quite interesting that you would pick somebody who had such serious struggles and label the poster child for DEI.

Make it make sense please.

 

[cytocide]

Good thing that we control the media. Imagine what people would say about us if we didn't.

nothing a space laser couldn’t take care of

 

[aneftp]

I have thought about your comment about her being the poster child for DEI. It’s quite interesting considering she is at least two to three standard deviations below the norm of a typical DEI applicant. Retaking exams this many times and getting into medschool with multiple Ds and Cs in premed classes is not the norm for URMs.

So it’s quite interesting that you would pick somebody who had such serious struggles and label the poster child for DEI.

Make it make sense please.

American people love feel good stories. They love hearing about struggles with poverty, death, failures. But most importantly, they love rebound stories. She fits everything. I commend her for that.

Sadly probably 70-80% accepted students come from more privileged backgrounds in my estimate.

Or would you have Biden parade around my CRNA friend 20 y/o son? She's Hispanic (looks white) ex husband is Jewish white super agent who makes millions. Kid got into multiple top colleges. Good grades. Top 1/3 of his class. Not the best but very good. 1350 SAT score (very good score but not elite) Went to elite private school. He played the hispanic check mark game. Got into 4 IVY schools.. That kid has all the advantages in the world. I would not parade him around promoting DEI.

 

[deleted1183938]

American people love feel good stories. They love hearing about struggles with poverty, death, failures. But most importantly, they love rebound stories. She fits everything. I commend her for that.

Sadly probably 70-80% accepted students come from more privileged backgrounds in my estimate.

Or would you have Biden parade around my CRNA friend 20 y/o son? She's Hispanic (looks white) ex husband is Jewish white super agent who makes millions. Kid got into multiple top colleges. Good grades. Top 1/3 of his class. Not the best but very good. 1350 SAT score (very good score but not elite) Went to elite private school. He played the hispanic check mark game. Got into 4 IVY schools.. That kid has all the advantages in the world. I would not parade him around promoting DEI.

You are extreme. I am telling you this is not the norm, feel good story or not. So if you are so moved by her story, then you shouldn't have a problem with most URMs who come from needy backgrounds who don't have to take the Steps 8 times and who came in with slightly subpar science GPAs and MCAT scores. But yet you seem to have such a huge problem with the majority of them. Not the upper middle class African kids but the lower middle/poor URMs who have no problems passing their exams once in medical school. Or maybe just need an extra attempt at step 1.

And most medical students in general come from privileged backgrounds so I don’t know why you have a problem with the URMs coming from privileged backgrounds as well. Is it only White and Asian Privilege that you want to see continue?

That is all.

 

[Twiggidy]

American people love feel good stories. They love hearing about struggles with poverty, death, failures. But most importantly, they love rebound stories. She fits everything. I commend her for that.

Sadly probably 70-80% accepted students come from more privileged backgrounds in my estimate.

Or would you have Biden parade around my CRNA friend 20 y/o son? She's Hispanic (looks white) ex husband is Jewish white super agent who makes millions. Kid got into multiple top colleges. Good grades. Top 1/3 of his class. Not the best but very good. 1350 SAT score (very good score but not elite) Went to elite private school. He played the hispanic check mark game. Got into 4 IVY schools.. That kid has all the advantages in the world. I would not parade him around promoting DEI.

I kind of agree with you about that OBs post. I feel like "I failed my way to success" is the worst humble brag, but people love "social media high fives" to promote their brand.

 

[cchoukal]

nothing a space laser couldn’t take care of

Wait, but what KIND of space laser?

 

[aneftp]

I kind of agree with you about that OBs post. I feel like "I failed my way to success" is the worst humble brag, but people love "social media high fives" to promote their brand.

She has 56k followers. She would be an instant hit with Biden.

And no. I’m not trolling or being sarcastic. I firmly believe these are the people you want to promote and deserve some special treatment.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

She has 56k followers. She would be an instant hit with Biden.

And no. I’m not trolling or being sarcastic. I firmly believe these are the people you want to promote and deserve some special treatment.

I dunno man, I don't think there's anyone that likes the idea of a cumulative eight tries to pass steps one two and three.

Granted I'm not approaching old, but when I was in med school, if you failed step one twice you had to take a full year off where you did nothing but study for it. I assume a similar rule for step two but I wouldn't know because no one ever did that.

That said, I would be curious about her OBGYN board scores. If they were barely passing then I sure as hell would never send my wife or daughters to her as a doctor. If on the other hand, those scores were excellent, then I guess this could be a success story.

I will admit I have some bias in this area: although I never failed any step exams and only took the MCAT once, I did have to repeat first year. However, I had the highest board scores in my residency program and something like top 7-8% nationally.

 

[Twiggidy]

She has 56k followers. She would be an instant hit with Biden.

And no. I’m not trolling or being sarcastic. I firmly believe these are the people you want to promote and deserve some special treatment.

No, not really.

I'm definitely not in the "I like people who weren't captured" category by far but her entire IG glow up of "I struggled and barely become a board certified doctor" makes me very uncomfortable and quite frankly I'll just say it makes some of us other URM MDs look bad. I would NOT be advertising that I barely passed all my board on multiple attempts, even if that still makes your board certified. Just like I wouldn't advertise that I graduated last in my med school class, although given today's hustle it would make a good IG profile. "Last in my class but still a doctor"

 

[aneftp]

No, not really.

I'm definitely not in the "I like people who weren't captured" category by far but her entire IG glow up of "I struggled and barely become a board certified doctor" makes me very uncomfortable and quite frankly I'll just say it makes some of us other URM MDs look bad. I would NOT be advertising that I barely passed all my board on multiple attempts, even if that still makes your board certified. Just like I wouldn't advertise that I graduated last in my med school class, although given today's hustle it would make a good IG profile. "Last in my class but still a doctor"

Well all I gotta say is this stuff works in todays current era

It’s like why not promote it as the poster child of DEI or even AA? People who are opposed to DEI will be oppose to it no matter what. Rich black kid with above average scores who passed usmle first attempt or poor Black kid with below average scores who took usmle 8x. It doesn’t matter. These people will still be opposed to any type of perceived discrimination.

We got an idiot who’s now a convicted felon who’s been married 3x. Cheats on his past and current wife. Multiple failed business on verge of becoming president again. That’s type of extremism that attracts attention.

Biden can double down on issues like DEI. Rally support. He needs to get his base to come out.

Look at trump doubling down on support of black men. Trump has got more black men support by doubling down than either McCain or Romney ever got. Trump support from from young black men is up again this election season. Because he doubled down.

That’s what Biden needs to do

Being safe won’t win Biden the election this year.

 

[deleted1183938]

She has 56k followers. She would be an instant hit with Biden.

And no. I’m not trolling or being sarcastic. I firmly believe these are the people you want to promote and deserve some special treatment.

When you say "you want to promote" who exactly is "you"? Because I bet I can speak for plenty of us DEI supporters are not interested in being part of that "you" when it comes to this extreme case.
But sure, find the most extreme case to parade it as if this is the norm for URMs and then use it to compare all the Asian and White kids being "left behind" or "overlooked" because of their race. That's not biased at all.

 

[deleted1130227]

You are extreme. I am telling you this is not the norm, feel good story or not. So if you are so moved by her story, then you shouldn't have a problem with most URMs who come from needy backgrounds who don't have to take the Steps 8 times and who came in with slightly subpar science GPAs and MCAT scores. But yet you seem to have such a huge problem with the majority of them. Not the upper middle class African kids but the lower middle/poor URMs who have no problems passing their exams once in medical school. Or maybe just need an extra attempt at step 1.

And most medical students in general come from privileged backgrounds so I don’t know why you have a problem with the URMs coming from privileged backgrounds as well. Is it only White and Asian Privilege that you want to see continue?

That is all.

No. Affirmative action should be based on $$, more specifically lack thereof. The URM kid whose parents are upper income, educated professionals should not have any advantage over an upper income white kid also with educated parents. They should both be disadvantaged in applying compared to a lower income white kid whose parents didn't go to college. IMO, the latter kid should be the beneficiary of affirmative action.

 

[deleted1183938]

No. Affirmative action should be based on $$, more specifically lack thereof. The URM kid whose parents are upper income, educated professionals should not have any advantage over an upper income white kid also with educated parents. They should both be disadvantaged in applying compared to a lower income white kid whose parents didn't go to college. IMO, the latter kid should be the beneficiary of affirmative action.

In case you haven’t heard AA got scrapped last summer.
Let’s now focus on getting rid of legacy admission. Because IMO just cuz mommy or daddy graduated from the medical school doesn’t mean you deserve an admission if you are mediocre. Just because Grandpa has a wing in the hospital or a scholarship he donates to and funds doesn’t mean you deserve a spot if you are mediocre.

 

[deleted1130227]

In case you haven’t heard AA got scrapped last summer.
Let’s now focus on getting rid of legacy admission. Because IMO just cuz mommy or daddy graduated from the medical school doesn’t mean you deserve an admission if you are mediocre. Just because Grandpa has a wing in the hospital or a scholarship he donates to and funds doesn’t mean you deserve a spot if you are mediocre.

I agree with your point about legacy admissions. Although technically AA did get “scrapped”, I strongly suspect that it still exists in practice. I would love to see a statistical analysis that controlled for applicants family income, educational level of parents and race going forward. I suspect that the URM kid of two doctors still has an advantage over the white kid of two doctors and the poor URM kid still has an edge over the poor white kid. IDK, but would put some money on it.

 

[aneftp]

In case you haven’t heard AA got scrapped last summer.
Let’s now focus on getting rid of legacy admission. Because IMO just cuz mommy or daddy graduated from the medical school doesn’t mean you deserve an admission if you are mediocre. Just because Grandpa has a wing in the hospital or a scholarship he donates to and funds doesn’t mean you deserve a spot if you are mediocre.

My nephews and niece are legacy college (uva) admission I guess. But they got 1520 and 1560 on sat scores and top of their high school class So they got the stats to back it up.

The university recently got rid of their legacy so guess they probably would not have gotten in by their own merit.

The end of legacy admissions at UVA

A new law says that public universities in Virginia can no longer consider candidates' family connections.

www.cvilletomorrow.org

But my nephew who got 525 on his mcat and top of his college grades got rejected by (his mom med school (no legacy) but his sister mcat school got info mom’s med school with a 520. Nephew ended up going to a pretty good top 10 med school with high endowment so go figure.

Another niece from California over 1550 also on sat got into Cornell (her mom’s college).

Cornell is still gonna to keep their legacy admission policy.

 

[deleted1183938]

My nephews and niece are legacy college (uva) admission I guess. But they got 1520 and 1560 on sat scores and top of their high school class So they got the stats to back it up.

The university recently got rid of their legacy so guess they probably would not have gotten in by their own merit.

The end of legacy admissions at UVA

A new law says that public universities in Virginia can no longer consider candidates' family connections.

www.cvilletomorrow.org

But my nephew who got 525 on his mcat and top of his college grades got rejected by (his mom med school (no legacy) but his sister mcat school got info mom’s med school with a 520. Nephew ended up going to a pretty good top 10 med school with high endowment so go figure.

Another niece from California over 1550 also on sat got into Cornell (her mom’s college).

Cornell is still gonna to keep their legacy admission policy.

I love how you ignored my other comment on that one person with the horrible scores that you want to be the model DEI.

 

[aneftp]

I love how you ignored my other comment on that one person with the horrible scores that you want to be the model DEI.

Not ignoring. Just like Dr Rude said they wanted studies done on scores of rich URM students who get in vs poor URM students who get in. Vs similar Asians and whites of similar economical status.

I would rather have someone who is URM and poor who’s worked themselves up using some type of preferential program like DEI. But I suspect and schools are very tight lip not to disclose the social economic status of URM they admit. For good reason me and Dr Rude suspect.

 

[deleted1183938]

But my nephew who got 525 on his mcat and top of his college grades got rejected by (his mom med school (no legacy) but his sister mcat school got info mom’s med school with a 520. Nephew ended up going to a pretty good top 10 med school with high endowment so go figure.

I don't even know how to decipher this sentence to make it make sense.

 

[emergentmd]

Just because Grandpa has a wing in the hospital or a scholarship he donates to and funds doesn’t mean you deserve a spot if you are mediocre.

You are chair of the med school with Veto power. Elon donated $500M to open the new research/academic center that turned your middle of the road med school to an Ivy League level program and his kid with below average credentials came up for admission then you would reject him?

I am not looking for a reason, just a yes or no. If you say yes, then I would call you a liar. If you say no, then I would call you a hypocrite.

These statements are not grounded in any reality. Its easy to say but I doubt you would deny him admission.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I don't even know how to decipher this sentence to make it make sense.

His nephew didn’t get into their father’s med school but his niece did. The nephew still got into a top medical school.

 

[Gern Blansten]

So if you are chair of the med school with Veto power and Elon donated $500M to open the new research/academic center that just turned your middle of the road med school to an Ivy League level program and his kid with below average credentials came up for admission that you would reject him?

I am not looking for a reason, just a yes or no. If you say no, then I would call you a liar. If you say yes, then I would call you a hypocrite.

These statements are not grounded in any reality. Its easy to say but I doubt you would deny him admission.

Yeah, that kid is getting in as long as they are not an active murderer. Former murderer? Probably still okay. Just don’t be actively murdering when you apply.

 

[deleted1183938]

You are chair of the med school with Veto power. Elon donated $500M to open the new research/academic center that turned your middle of the road med school to an Ivy League level program and his kid with below average credentials came up for admission then you would reject him?

I am not looking for a reason, just a yes or no. If you say no, then I would call you a liar. If you say yes, then I would call you a hypocrite.

These statements are not grounded in any reality. Its easy to say but I doubt you would deny him admission.

First, you would never find me in academics. But if I were in this position, then no.
What happens if I say no? Will he withdraw the funds?

 

[emergentmd]

Yeah, that kid is getting in as long as they are not an active murderer. Former murderer? Probably still okay. Just don’t be actively murdering when you apply.

If he was a murderer and could barely read, they would make an online program for him.

 

[emergentmd]

First, you would never find me in academics. But if I were in this position, then no.
What happens if I say no? Will he withdraw the funds?

I didn't ask for a reason, just want to know if you are a liar or hypocrite. Because you know for sure you would not veto a kid from your biggest donor who turned your program from an also ran to a top tier program.

You are essentially rejecting someone and now essentially jeopardizing the top tier name with all the $$$/accolades that comes with it.

But you do know that large donations are not lump sums but typically given over years.

But lets say that he can withdraw the funds. How would your answer be? Because if you let him in then you are a hypocrite.

 

[deleted1183938]

I didn't ask for a reason, just want to know if you are a liar or hypocrite. Because you know for sure you would not veto a kid from your biggest donor who turned your program from an also ran to a top tier program.

You are essentially rejecting someone and now essentially jeopardizing the top tier name with all the $$$/accolades that comes with it.

But you do know that large donations are not lump sums but typically given over years.

But lets say that he can withdraw the funds. How would your answer be? Because if you let him in then you are a hypocrite.

Considering I would never be in this position all I can speak on is hypotheticals. And I would say no. I don’t give a crap about big names so therefore this wouldn’t faze me.
I love how you can tell someone is a liar because of one answer. Goes to show how shallow you are and see other people.
So… my answer is still a no. Some of us have ethics, morals and standards.

 

[emergentmd]

OK, alittle harsh and I apologize. I will say detached from reality.

Your best friend is in admissions and can pull strings for your kid to get into med school which is her life dream. Everyone pulls strings to get their kids into med school. She has been rejected from everywhere else. You tell your daughter, sorry can't make a 1 min call to get your kid into med school.

Really?

 

[rowsdower88]

OK, alittle harsh and I apologize. I will say detached from reality.

Your best friend is in admissions and can pull strings for your kid to get into med school which is her life dream. Everyone pulls strings to get their kids into med school. She has been rejected from everywhere else. You tell your daughter, sorry can't make a 1 min call to get your kid into med school.

Really?

It's arguments like this that really make me suspicious of people who are vocally against affirmative action programs. It's like we can acknowledge the status quo is grossly unfair on any number of metrics, but it's only the programs (above board and under the table) which benefit black people that are perpetually on the chopping block.

"But I'm against ALL programs that aren't merit based!"

Yeah? Well why isn't Leonard Leo making sure cases like this get to SCOTUS?

 

[Gern Blansten]

What happens if I say no? Will he withdraw the funds?

If you say no in this scenario, go ahead an update your CV...

 

[deleted1183938]

If you say no in this scenario, go ahead an update your CV...

There are plenty of jobs abound. I stick to my NO!!!