So I just found out you can get into dental school without finishing a bachelors degree, just completing pre reqs and 90 credits. So now I ask, is it really that important to get a bachelors degree, wouldn't it make more sense to save a whole year or possibly more and just finish the credits and pre reqs and get into dental school? What use will your degree be of, if you're in dental school?
Dental school with no degree...
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You try that, let me know how it works out for you.
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It is incredibly difficult to get into dental school without a bachelors degree.
This is from Pitt's website, with the relevant information in bold:
A minimum of 120 semester hours of study is required. Applicants must also have a minimum of 60 semester hours completed before making application. An undergraduate degree from an accredited college is preferred, but not required, prior to matriculation at the dental school. A QPA (both science and non-science) of 3.20 is expected. Early admission, while not advised, will with the completion of at least 90 semester hours, be considered providing that the applicant has achieved a desired minimum QPA of 3.9 (both science and non-science) and a minimal score of 24 on each section of the DAT.
i lol'ed @ this comment
But as the above users have mentioned, it's already difficult for some students with a bachelor degree to get in with competitive scores, so getting in without a bachelors would be slim. just my 2 cents
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Some schools don't require a bachelors degree but it's highly preferred. I don't know the exact numbers, but the amount of students who get into dental school and don't have at least a bachelors degree is very low so I wouldn't bank on it unless you have stellar stats. Best thing to do would be to look at the school's website to see what the requirements are, call them up and ask about it (for the ones that don't require the degree) and see what they recommend. Good luck 
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Treat it basically as a requirement. You technically can get in without, but you're generally going to be at a disadvantage when the other 10,000+ have or will have a degree. It makes for an easy reason for them to choose someone else over you in this competitive process.
Alright then, what about completing a degree in 3 years? I will have 14 credits going into undergrad, if I take summer classes and about 20 credits a semester that would be enough to graduate in 3 years I think...
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3 years is a champion move. Just keep up your GPA if you go that route.
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Wait, so you're in high school still, and you're planning on getting into dental school after 3 years, without setting foot on a college campus?
I appreciate good planning, but this much in advance is kinda ridiculous.
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I'm getting the impression that you haven't started undergrad yet. This, while doable, is probably harder than you think it is.
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It will be hard, but it IS doable. I came in with about 23 credits, took 7 credits last summer and taking 8 more credits this summer so I can finish in 3 years and apply this summer. As long as you maintain a good GPA, keep up with ECs, and enjoy yourself in college, you will be fine, but always have a back-up plan. Good luck!
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The thing I question is that, are there a low number of non degree students because more prefer to get the degree and do everything over a 4 year span? I don't see why it would be harder as long as you have all the pre reqs and 90 credits, because what use will your degree be of when in dental school?
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No, almost every school prefers a degree and some only consider you with a degree. Those who get in without completing a degree are the elite applicants. This isn't pharmacy or nursing school where you aren't expected to have a degree to get in.
this
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The way I've come to terms of adding value to my undergraduate experience is that the course-loads teach students how to adapt different study skills and manage time. Science courses, in general, and research, specifically, teaches you to (1) be critical in accepting statements as truths, (2) apply logic and reasoning, and (3) be open-minded and curious yet always skeptical.
If we weren't able to find these worthwhile investments from spending 4-years in college then we ought to earn Bachelor's of Dental Science immediately after high school like in some other places in the world.
The degree itself is a pointless credential. I mean you could have not completed an Arts course but have completed everything else and not be awarded the degree. Completing the degree just makes the school look better because the matriculates have been credentialized (I made up a word).
Applying within three years is hard. A typical applicant would have to take General Biology 1&2 or just Cell Biology, General Chemistry 1&2, English, and Calculus by the end of the first year. At the summer between the first year and second year, you would have to take as many prereq courses as possible. During the second year, you would take Organic Chemistry 1&2 and Physics 1&2 (upper-level English and maybe Sociology and Psychology). Before the end of your second year, you will have already racked up hundreds of hours of volunteering and shadowing, have asked for letters of recommendation from professors and dentists, and have written your personal statement. At the end of your second year, you will study for the DAT (most people study for a dedicated month) in the summer and simultaneously apply to dental schools. During the late summer to early Fall of your third year, you will write supplementary/secondary essays, go on interviews, and stress some more. During the third year, you take Biochemistry (and Physics instead of taking it during the summer) and as many upper-level courses as possible while stressing about interviews. By Dec. 1st, you'll hear back from the earliest possible acceptance.
Basically, the admissions committee will only have two years of mostly non-upper level (bare minimum) course work to evaluate you by compared to normal people who will have three years, usually with plenty of upper-level courses during that third year. Unless you have straight A's, the admission committee's sentiment will be "Why accept this kid instead of someone who will have completed everything plus more and earned a degree?" In terms of competitiveness, you will always be at a disadvantage when compared to people who did just as well as you on the prerequisites but have completed more upper-level and harder courses and have racked up more hours of research, volunteering, and shadowing. The school doesn't gain anything if they accept an average applicant who applied during their Sophomore year. You have to prove that you're worth it.
Applying a year early is stressful because you have to have everything ready in a very short time.
I guess that's true. A very good post by you. This also brings up another question, do you have to have all pre-reqs for dental school done prior to applying, or is it fine if you finish some pre-reqs senior year?
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You can finish them senior year. I'd recommend getting the universal ones out of the way, but if you're applying to school X who has a psychology or biochem requirement, you're fine to take it during the cycle you apply
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It's okay to finish your prerequisites during the application process. Plenty of people do. If you have to take prerequisites during the application process, you should take Physics or non-scinece prerequisites because you need the Biology and General & Organic Chemistry for doing well on the DAT. Remember the admissions committee already has a bleak amount of courses to evaluate you by so you need to be as competitive as possible by completing the core science requirements before evaluation.
Alright you guys, that info was very helpful and I think doing the 4 year route will be best, especially since I have some classes out of the way(calc 1&2, english, and speech), if I take some classes during my winter and spring interims and summer, then I focus on more important classes during the winter and spring semesters and it will help my GPA. This sound like a good plan?
Freshman year
Bio 1&2
Chem 1&2
Sophomore Year
Orgo Chem 1&2
Junior Year
Physics 1&2
Senior Year
Microbiology or biochem or both
All pre reqs done without cramming and high stress levels, everything spread out nicely...
Freshman year
Bio 1&2
Chem 1&2
Sophomore Year
Orgo Chem 1&2
Junior Year
Physics 1&2
Senior Year
Microbiology or biochem or both
All pre reqs done without cramming and high stress levels, everything spread out nicely...
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This looks fine, but keep in mind that if you are a science major, you'll have to take some additional science classes to graduate (e.g. Anatomy, Cell Biology) on top of these prereqs. Make sure you account for those when spreading out your coursework.
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You need to be someone who enjoys challenging him or herself. It helps if you develop a curiosity and a deep desire to just know. Start asking "Why?" and "How?" questions as you read your science textbooks. The drive for finding the answer helps you immensely for motivating yourself to study and retain information. I really appreciate the feeling of accomplishment and self-improvement when I can regurgitate, process, and accurately interpret or connect information.
If you start at a Pharmacology question, you might lead yourself to a Physiology answer & question, then a Biology answer & question, then a Biochemistry answer & question, then an Organic Chemistry answer & question, then a General Chemistry answer & question, then a Physics answer & question, then a Math answer & question, then a really f***ed up Philosophy question with no answer. But be careful!
"Georg Cantor, the great mathematician whose work proved to be the foundation for much of the 20th-century mathematics. He believed he was God's messenger and was eventually driven insane trying to prove his theories of infinity.
Ludwig Boltzmann's struggle to prove the existence of atoms and probability eventually drove him to suicide. Kurt Gödel, the introverted confidant of Einstein, proved that there would always be problems which were outside human logic. His life ended in a sanatorium where he starved himself to death.
Finally, Alan Turing, the great Bletchley Park code breaker, father of computer science and a homosexual, died trying to prove that some things are fundamentally unprovable."
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Remember you're competing against applicants who have taken all the prerequisites plus some Genetics, Microbiology, Medical Microbiology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology, Anatomy and Physiology, Histology, Immunology, Animal Biology, Plant Biology, Ecology, or etc.
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4 years is the way to go. I am glad you are doing all your research before you go to college, but i think you are also vastly underestimating how difficult being a top applicant can be. No offense, but i don't even take freshman and sophomores serious when they tell me they are pre-med/pre-dent. They honestly have no idea how difficult it is to take 50+ credits of science classes (plus their regular classes) and maintain a 3.5+.
Wait till you get there... then you will understand. When 25% of your general chemistry class drops before the semester ends. When you have 5-10 people just stop showing up to your bio labs half way through the semester. Then when you see a buddy from a class a year or so later and you ask if they are still thinking med/dent school... they say "Haha, no man, i switched to pscyh/business/nursing/etc".
I go to one of the largest state universities in the country and i remember an experience in my first general biology class, there was about 400 students in there. The first day of class, the professor asks: "So how many of you want to be a doctor of some sort? Physician, pharmacist, dentist, optometrist?" About 75% of the class raises their hands. My professor just laughed and gave a sarcastic "Okay..." Fast forward to the end of the year, to the 350 or so that were left of us he asked the same question... except this time only about 30% of the people raised their hands.
Don't be one of those kids that doesn't raise their hand... good luck!!
Wait till you get there... then you will understand. When 25% of your general chemistry class drops before the semester ends. When you have 5-10 people just stop showing up to your bio labs half way through the semester. Then when you see a buddy from a class a year or so later and you ask if they are still thinking med/dent school... they say "Haha, no man, i switched to pscyh/business/nursing/etc".
I go to one of the largest state universities in the country and i remember an experience in my first general biology class, there was about 400 students in there. The first day of class, the professor asks: "So how many of you want to be a doctor of some sort? Physician, pharmacist, dentist, optometrist?" About 75% of the class raises their hands. My professor just laughed and gave a sarcastic "Okay..." Fast forward to the end of the year, to the 350 or so that were left of us he asked the same question... except this time only about 30% of the people raised their hands.
Don't be one of those kids that doesn't raise their hand... good luck!!
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My Microbiology professor did the same thing!
When I was in high school, I didn't think undergrad would be hard. Adjusting to undergrad was hard. Then I got used to taking 3-4 science classes a semester and doing well in them. Now my reference standard for normal is what my reference standard for hard as a Freshman was. If I think undergrad is pretty okay, you can imagine how easy I think high school is now. The same thing is going to happen with dental school except the concepts don't get harder but the workload increases three-fold and you're in classes from 9-5. I can't imagine how draining OMFS residency is going to be (or might be).
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Don't mean to dig up an old thread, but I'm wondering for a friend, what about a terminal bachelor's degree, such as a bachelor of applied science (B.A.S.)? My understanding is that a BAS is like 3 years or something, or at least can be offered by a 2-year junior/community college as opposed to a 4-year university. Is there a type of "grading"/ranking available for what an "acceptable" bachelor's degree is and what isn't for dental schools? Or are all bachelor's degrees acceptable, including BA, BS, BAS, BAA, etc.
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Right but you are probably the exception, not the rule. Good for you, you're probably a very highly competitive applicant.
Are you (specifically) able to attend without an undergrad degree? Sometimes the bachelor's degree is a condition of enrollment. In other words, you can interview without it, but can't attend unless you've earned it by the June of the year you want to enter DS!
Yeah ill be attending without getting an undergrad degree. On my application I had no degree planned at the current undergrad school I'm attending. All the schools I interviewed at were well aware of my plans not to get a undergrad degree.
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What are your stats? 30 in all sections of the DAT and 4.0 OGPA & SGPA?
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His stats are found here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-strong-is-my-application.1019811/
SDN can make you feel like you need awesome stats across the board with all of the breakdowns with ridiculous stats, but schools look at the whole package.
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Thanks for that. But the stats are really amazing. True, it's not at medical school level, but on a dental school scale, they are very competitive:
oGPA 3.68 (100 credits)
Non sGPA 3.8 (55 credits)
sGPA 3.55 (45 credits)
BCP 3.52 (25 credits)
And 19s or 20s on the DAT sections. Remarkable achievements! My concern is what about a competitive DAT score but 2.5-2.7 GPA ranges (or possibly slightly lower) but the personal statement addressing these and then promising to retake some of them in the "gap" year for better performance? It's good to know the whole package is considered by schools but I'm wondering if it's going to be a waste to apply this upcoming cycle in July if the GPAs are not competitive, AND no undergrad degree! (Regardless of DAT scores!) does this make a difference in your opinions? I would hate for my friend to not apply in July because you never know how it'll go if you don't apply, but at the same time, I also don't want them to end up wasting money applying to as many schools as she can and end up being filtered out because of her current GPA issues (if such filters exist in dental schools). I'm personally leaning towards applying in July, but I also want to be realistic as well: no bachelor degree, a not-so-good-GPA, but great DAT.. How to interpret that?
Thank you! I think you probably have great stats also! Congrats!
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I was just assuming this person already had a competitive DAT score AND a competitive GPA. Then the "whole package" of having a well rounded application would give you a chance. However, I would not recommend applying with no degree and that GPA. It would already be very difficult to be accepted with a high DAT score and that GPA with a degree let alone without one. It is not enough to write in your personal statement that this will be addressed. She needs to actually show that she can overcome that. It is going to be very difficult to raise her GPA at this point to even reach a 3.0 (assuming she has a lot of credits already). Those filters do exist and most schools probably won't even look at her application. She needs to get a 4.0 from here on out and receive her degree to raise that GPA. Even that may not be enough depending on how many credits she has remaining. She will probably need to do a masters and get good grades to show dental schools she can get good grades.
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makes sense, thank you. these reflect my thoughts on the issue as well. i appreciate it!
