Desperate med student--quit med school?

[Desperatemed]

Hi fellow medical students!

I'm a 25 year old medical student from europe. I started studying at the age of 22. I was never 100% sure if medicine is the right path for me but I always liked the idea behind medicine (helping people and being kinda independent--parents have private practice in derm so I thought I have a good option there too).
I considered law and business administration too but didn't like the politics that was supposedly involved in being a lawyer and manager.
That aside I'll honestly admit that the prestige in medicine attracted me too.

Academically I really didn't struggle much---I passed with pretty decent grades. I wasn't really interested much in the medical science but I found memorizing stuff not to be too difficult. The problem with me was the practical stuff----I hated dissecting in anatomy, I could barely eat afterwards and I didn't really get used to it. I was very happy once that was over (although I passed with an A grade). I also totally dislike hospitals and am very uncomfortable touching patients and I'm very afraid of catching infectious diseases such as HIV/Hep C. I know all this sounds completely ridiculous for someone that planned to be a doctor but I always thought that I'd get used to it but now at the age of 25 , 3 years in medical school I feel like I'm at some type of crossroad. In my country med school takes 6 years so I have another 3 years left. At this point I'm 99,9% sure that medical practice is never gonna be something for me and I'm not even interested in laboratory work/research etc.
Another huge downside to medicine is the type of personal responsibility that you carry as a doctor. I honestly believe I could never be able to live a normal life again if I seriously hurt a patient due to wrong therapy or diagnosis.
I personally think I have some type of light obsessive-compulsive disorder and I've been to psychologists and psychiatrists due to my depression and this potential disorder. I also took anti depressants for quite some time.
The good thing in contrast to the USA is that I could leave with absolutely no debt at all(works differently here , you don't pay for med school).
So now you might be thinking "why the hell don't you quit then"?

Well I have been thinking about finishing the degree and changing fields after that. The degree itself does have some good value because medicine is viewed as a tough field to get a degree in. I also spent 3-4 years on it so I have invested time and energy.
I also don't really struggle much to pass exams.
I also am not 100% sure what to do---at this point I'd probably choose business if I had to but it is pretty much facing the absolute unknown and finishing a bachelor of business at the age of 28 isn't really anything to write home about in terms of job chances (most finish the business bachelor at the age of 24). Law is pretty much out of the question: I found out that I'm not the type of guy to sue other people and fight other people---back when I was 20 and contemplating law I had a naive picture of law (helping the innocent etc.)--but I have found out (through shadowing ) that law isn't really much about moral stuff.
The other field I'm contemplating is a bachelor of business engineering which is a mix between business and engineering. I'm not sure if I'm good enough mathematically and in physics to master engineering.
I'm totally confused at the moment.

On the one hand I don't wanna waste another 3 years on something I dislike at this point(a lot) but on the other hand I'm a realistic guy that feels like the grass ain't that much greener on the other side (law,business,engineering). I'm just totally confused.
Is it worth it finishing just for the degree?Shall I call it quits and face the unknown?Am I too old to change careers?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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[da8s0859q]

In my opinion: yes, you should finish. You're halfway through, so even if you're somewhat sure that most "traditional" medical practice isn't for you, I'm not sure that the opportunity cost of switching to something else and losing out on the degree -- and the chance that you'll find something medically inclined that strikes your fancy -- warrants the change.

And besides, if you're that confused like you're saying, is now the time for drastic change?

 

[Ariodant]

If you don't like touching patients, have you considered pathology or laboratory medicine? If you hate hospitals, what about private practice? You've already invested 3 years into a medical education, I think it's prudent to more thoroughly research into your career options before contemplating quitting.

 

[DrJD]

If you don't like touching patients, have you considered pathology or laboratory medicine? If you hate hospitals, what about private practice? You've already invested 3 years into a medical education, I think it's prudent to more thoroughly research into your career options before contemplating quitting.

Seconded... There are business opportunities in medicine for which a MD would be a great advantage. There are also more engineering like careers in radiology, etc... Your best bet at this point would be to figure out what you want (business or engineering) and then find a niche in medicine...

 

[Desperatemed]

One of my main problems is the type of responsibility one carries in medicine---even in fields like pathology or radiology (I've thought about both) you have huge responsibility in terms of diagnosis and potential therapy.I simply believe that I'm not made for that type of responsibility.

I've thought about different niches in medicine in the past 1 1/2 years but haven't found something I'd really be into.

I've searched a lot of different forums for people in the same situation like me. The problem with most guys continuing seemed to be that huge debt they were in so I thought I'd ask for your guys opinion/advice on a similar situation but for someone that has no debt.
What are the odds of things getting better after finishing the degree?I always thought that getting the degree was a good idea but I've read a lot of guys stories about how nothing changed the further they went etc.
Even some of my relatives and friends who are above 40 years of age and unhappy with their careers told me that they had the same thoughts when they were studying (different subjects) and opted to "finish the degree" in hope of things getting better but things never got better so I'm very afraid of sitting here in 3-4 of years wishing I changed my career path.....on the other hand there is always the potential for regret when you find out that a different subject doesn't necessarily suit you better....

 

[DrJD]

One of my main problems is the type of responsibility one carries in medicine---even in fields like pathology or radiology (I've thought about both) you have huge responsibility in terms of diagnosis and potential therapy.I simply believe that I'm not made for that type of responsibility.

I've thought about different niches in medicine in the past 1 1/2 years but haven't found something I'd really be into.

I've searched a lot of different forums for people in the same situation like me. The problem with most guys continuing seemed to be that huge debt they were in so I thought I'd ask for your guys opinion/advice on a similar situation but for someone that has no debt.
What are the odds of things getting better after finishing the degree?I always thought that getting the degree was a good idea but I've read a lot of guys stories about how nothing changed the further they went etc.
Even some of my relatives and friends who are above 40 years of age and unhappy with their careers told me that they had the same thoughts when they were studying (different subjects) and opted to "finish the degree" in hope of things getting better but things never got better so I'm very afraid of sitting here in 3-4 of years wishing I changed my career path.....on the other hand there is always the potential for regret when you find out that a different subject doesn't necessarily suit you better....

There is a lot of responsibility with ANY job. My brother is a civil engineer and he has the pressure of making sure the building/bridge/road etc. doesn't collapse with people inside.

Those in business have to answer to their shareholders, or to the board in order to show profit. Any job that pays semi-decently is going to have a lot of pressure associated with it. I think you are more likely to find an area of medicine that doesn't have that much pressure, ie Dermatology, than you are to find that elsewhere.

Sounds to me like a classic "grass is greener." It is good that you are putting so much thought into it though. I started of in a different career and I can say that even if medicine seems tough, they are ALL tough for their own reasons.

 

[sumstorm]

I have a couple of questions: will the next 3 years require far more of the stuff you hate? If so, that may have to be a major consideration.

I would continue UNTIL you know what to do otherwise, but at this point, I think you may need to really spend some time focused on that. Are there career counselors where you are at? I would seriously look at careers that are in your field or in associated fields. IE here you might be able to become a government employee, write med literature, or work with pharm companies. If any of these suit you well, then you could finish out the degree and pursue those interests. If they don't, then you have tougher decisions. Either way, you will have invested 3 more years if you don't do anything and that may make you feel even more obligated to invest more years.

So, the other question is what do you like? IE, if you could spend 3 months doing anything, what would you do? What hobbies do you have, or have you let fall by the wayside?

 

[Ariodant]

One of my main problems is the type of responsibility one carries in medicine---even in fields like pathology or radiology (I've thought about both) you have huge responsibility in terms of diagnosis and potential therapy.I simply believe that I'm not made for that type of responsibility.

I've thought about different niches in medicine in the past 1 1/2 years but haven't found something I'd really be into.

I've searched a lot of different forums for people in the same situation like me. The problem with most guys continuing seemed to be that huge debt they were in so I thought I'd ask for your guys opinion/advice on a similar situation but for someone that has no debt.
What are the odds of things getting better after finishing the degree?I always thought that getting the degree was a good idea but I've read a lot of guys stories about how nothing changed the further they went etc.
Even some of my relatives and friends who are above 40 years of age and unhappy with their careers told me that they had the same thoughts when they were studying (different subjects) and opted to "finish the degree" in hope of things getting better but things never got better so I'm very afraid of sitting here in 3-4 of years wishing I changed my career path.....on the other hand there is always the potential for regret when you find out that a different subject doesn't necessarily suit you better....

Looks like you are running away from medicine without a clear idea of where you want to run to. That alone should make you pause and rethink your plans. Confidence in your abilities and clinical judgement, which you seem to be lacking at this point, will come with experience. I respect your concern for your patients, but failures and mistakes are part of anything you do in life. I'm a semi-perfectionist and hate to screw up anything, let alone my patients, but I'm 100% certain that at some point, I will. With that thought, I can quit, I can shiver in bed every morning refusing to get up because I might kill a patient today, or I can use it as my motivation to work harder while still a student, before I have to shoulder that responsibility myself. I guess my choice is obvious

 

[Desperatemed]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Well in the next three years we do have quite a bunch of rotations and an intern year which seems to be very tough for me.

If I could choose what I'd be doing for 3 months it'd be shadowing managers and engineers trying to get a feel for their responsibilities and everyday life.

My hobbies are just sports pretty much which seems like a very bad choice for a career. I was a somewhat successful basketball player on a semi professional team/league but after injuring my knee,foot,ankle and back the dreams of a professional career were pretty much over.


I have deeply thought about the responsibility factor in other jobs too. That's why I can definitely rule out law as a possibility as there is too much lying etc. involved and I don't want to find out at some point that I defended a someone that was really guilty but could escape due to my work.

As far as engineering is concerned I'd pretty much rule out building houses or bridges or vehicles. I'd be interesting in computer engineering as I feel like I could shoulder that responsibility (if there is much) pretty decent.

As for management I was thinking about accounting and stuff.

@DrJD: The grass is greener thing might be true. That's why I have taken 1 year now to make that decision. I want to pretty much rule out that my main reasoning is a false picture of reality in other professions.

 

[DrJD]

@DrJD: The grass is greener thing might be true. That's why I have taken 1 year now to make that decision. I want to pretty much rule out that my main reasoning is a false picture of reality in other professions.

That is good that you are taking time. Just to be clear I wasn't trying to put you down for this. I think we all struggle with this. I especially do. For a long time whenever I got to something I felt exactly like you do. It took a lot of searching to realize that I wasn't happy about other aspects of life instead.

Keep up the soul searching!

 

[sumstorm]

If I could choose what I'd be doing for 3 months it'd be shadowing managers and engineers trying to get a feel for their responsibilities and everyday life.

My hobbies are just sports pretty much which seems like a very bad choice for a career. I was a somewhat successful basketball player on a semi professional team/league but after injuring my knee,foot,ankle and back the dreams of a professional career were pretty much over.

As far as engineering is concerned I'd pretty much rule out building houses or bridges or vehicles. I'd be interesting in computer engineering as I feel like I could shoulder that responsibility (if there is much) pretty decent.

As for management I was thinking about accounting and stuff.

Are there options for sports medicine or medical administration or management for doctors? you would use the degree but work in an area you are interested in. I know an amazing doctor in Australia changed my life. She was on call for emergencies on Anzac Day when I came in with a busted knee from hiking. She took one look at my legs, manipulated them, told me I had horrible biomechanics, treated for pain and gave a course of PT (including follow ups at a clinic.) For the first time ever it made sense why I hated sports; I literally was limited by weaknesses in the joints that could be treated through PT, but were worsened by the general attitude towards physical training (work through the pain, etc.) For me, it sent me from a couch potato klutz who always hurt after activity to a regular runner/hiker/bicyclist. I may never be an award winning athlete, but it did change my health for the better.

Managers will always be responsible, to some extent, for the livlihoods/income of those below them. You are reponsible for your own work and those of your reports. That often means making decisions that are distasteful (like removing an employee who has a lot of drama in their life and is a nice person but just can't do the work.) If you don't get an order in on time and the line shuts down (in industry) people get sent home without pay. Etc.

My husband's education is aerospace engineering, but he works as a computer engineer. His responsibility is data security, which ranges from approving construction of secure (from disasters, attack, infiltration, etc) data centers, providing for back up of data nearly instantaneously, and lots of regulations from government and industry. If he screws up anywhere, there is a chance for huge loss of money, major fines, and loss of private/personal information.

As others have said, there are few jobs that don't have responsibilities and risks. I do think there are some areas of medicine with less risk and some with higher risk.

I hope you can figure out what you want, and what your passion is.

 

[Desperatemed]

Very good posts and input guys. Very cool that you guys take the time to help me out.

I gotta run now but will get back to this thread in a few hours.

 

[derspiegel]

Hey desperatemed,

I`m a medical student as well. I believe we speak the same language (the expression `to write home about something` really caught my eye)but in my country medicine is 7 years instead of 6...

Last year around march in my third year-like you- I started doubting severely about medicine. Not so much about the practical issues but more about my own motivation. I felt like medicine wasn`t the passion of my life although I had always been at the top of my class. For a more detailed version of my story check this link:http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-A-Medical-Student/752834 as I don`t want to steal this thread.

My advice for you is: if you really decide you have a different dream outside medicine: pursue it. We only live once and it`s not worth wondering all your life about what could have been. I for one eventually decided I was wrong and I`m going back to medicine in september. Nevertheless I don`t regret my earlier decision I look at it as an experience which really made me realise medicine is the career of my life.

`For a long time whenever I got to something I felt exactly like you do. It took a lot of searching to realize that I wasn't happy about other aspects of life instead.`
This said by DrJD turned out to be important for me as well...

 

[shreypete]

I also study in Europe in a 6 year program and boy it can be quite frustrating and never-ending. I just wish I got to the 4th year already...'cause I'm just so sick of studying theoretical stuff all day. My scenario was different from yours. I went to law school for a year (it was an integrated 5 year law program) and then quit because I found it to be way too boring and not my thing. On the other hand, I love medicine...even though at times, I get very dejected and depressed about whether this is what I want to do (especially when I score bad on tests).

I would really advise you to finish you degree because you will have many prospects after that (as a medical grad is highly respected in several other professions other than the core medical ones). Hang in there and YOU CAN DO IT! Take a small break and get back to study. Don't focus on the past...try figuring out new methods to study and make the stuff more interesting. Perhaps discussing the stuff over with a friend really might help (I do this with myself..as though I were talking to myself; weird but works for me).

Good luck to you!

 

[fMRI]

Hi

Sorry to chime in with a different tune. You're 25 years old now, you seem pretty dissatisfied with medicine, and you're talented. I wouldn't hang onto a program that doesn't suit you just because you can do it. You can equally well excel in a different field without wasting another 3 years of your life with something you don't like. If it turns out that you didn't like the other field, it isn't difficult to pick up medicine again where you left it and finish it later.
Having to explain that you finished a degree you are not truly happy with and having to start from scratch (at the age of 28 or thereabouts) with a new degree won't help you much. When you enter the job market (in your early/mid 30ies) you'll be older than your peers. And you won't be able to explain it as a 'career change', if you never had a "career" in your first field of study. Either complete the degree and work as a doctor for a couple of years (and finance your second degree by working as a doctor) or do what truly interests you without wasting your time with something you don't have passion for.

You said you have talent and passion, use them wisely.
Best of luck!

 

[Desperatemed]

Wow...again thanks a lot guys. I guess the soul searching continues.

Yeah I took the time off til April and I'm reading different books daily (one about engineering,3 about business,2 about law)---the problem is most likely that this stuff is all theoretical and doesn't really give you a great idea of how the job is like.

Right now my tune changes almost daily: One day I'm like "you dislike medicine,it's not your passion at all--change it, go to university tommorow end examtriculate" then a day later I'm like "Passion?What percent of working people really have passion for their job?Am I gonna find passion in a totally different field?"

This is the most difficult decision I've ever faced and I believe the most difficult decision I have to make for quite some time in the future.
Right now the most logical route would be probably to call it quits, try something else and if the worst case comes true and I realize that it was a bad decision I try to pick up medicine again later. On the other hand i'd have to learn a lot of stuff again because being out of it for 3 years or something makes you forget about a lot of details etc.
I'm currently also exploring what exactly can be done with the degree and what kind of difficulty am I gonna face if I apply for a completely different field (say business) with a medical degree. Problem again, like in most things in life, the one person tells you one thing and the other the complete opposite. You search the web and get one information and then another site states almost the complete opposite.

May I ask you guys one thing?Say you guys have a medical degree in the United States or for the european guys in your respective european country---how easy/difficult is taking that degree and say apply for a position in a totally different field (say banking)?

 

[Desperatemed]

One thing that bothers me a lot and someone rightfully commented on it early is the point of responsibility in medicine: Now I'm aware of fields like business,law,engineering carrying big time responsibility as well (one could argue that money is more important to people than health, in law you might have to lie or defend a guilty person and in engineering you can seriously hurt people if you don't do it correctly) but how come the responsibility in medicine bothers me more than those?Is it because I'm a med student and more familiar with medical responsibilities?Or am I simply not made for that type of responsibility but rather made for fiscal responsibility for example?

I've thought about that point a lot and would like to hear more opinions on that. How come some of my classmates fear fiscal responsibility way more than the personal responsibility that you carry in medicine?Are different persons simply made for different type of responsibilities?I can't figure that one out at all.

 

[shreypete]

Well my aunt works for the UN (specifically in the World Bank) and she's a doctor. She previously worked in the WHO but then shifted into the economics/banking sector (it's combined). She just had to do a masters in accounting and finance and she told me it wasn't bad at all. After med school, even if you do a good economics/finance degree, you can try to get into one of the UN institutions. My aunt worked mainly in Switzerland for about 15 years and while she loved it, she shifted because she didn't want to travel all that much ('cause of the kids). My uncle also works for the World Bank now but formerly worked for the World Intellectual Property Rights Organization. He had both a medicine and a law degree along with economics. They just told me that whatever I was going to do, I should focus on finishing that degree and then move on (because leaving it midway could be misunderstood by future employers in other fields).

Regarding responsibilities, I'm sure if you go to law school or chose to do an MBA, you would start learning the different responsibilities in those professions too. It's just a matter of getting well-acquainted with these fields. While the money might be good in business or law, it doesn't come all that easy because there are quite a lot of lawyers and businessmen these day (just like doctors). To get promoted to a CEO position (as CEOs working for multinational corporations make some of the highest salaries in the world) can take a considerably long time (around 9-15 years!). So make sure you do quite a lot of research before you decide what you want to do. It's the same with law. These days, law is even more competitive and you see so many stellar grads from Ivy Leagues (which matters for law schools) and there has also been a lot of recruitment of lawyers from other countries (preferably those with reputed LLM degrees and a lot of work experience etc.)

The grass always seems greener on the other side, but only when you go over to that side, do you realize that it's as bad or worse as it was on the side you were previously on.

 

[DrJD]

The grass always seems greener on the other side, but only when you go over to that side, do you realize that it's as bad or worse as it was on the side you were previously on.

So true!!

 

[bunnity]

I'm in a similar position to you. I started veterinary school (in the US we do four years of vet school after four years of undergraduate work) and kinda freaked out and really didn't like it. There were a lot of reasons (which I talked about in the "Class of 2013, how ya doing?" thread in the pre-vet forum), and my school was nice enough to let me take a year off.

One thing that has really helped me is working a regular 40 hour a week job in an animal-related field. It has given me a break from school, and helped me rest the school-related part of my brain, while learning better people skills and learning more about my potential career options. I have mostly decided to go back to school next year, and this job has helped me realize the value that my degree will give me and the increased autonomy and ability to actually improve things.

I really recommend just working a regular job for a while, whether or not it is related to your potential career options. I think it brings a lot of perspective especially if you have never really been out of school before (I had worked a lot before but always during school, and it is different).

Best of luck. I know it isn't easy, but it will work out OK in the end whatever you decide.

 

[Desperatemed]

Question: Would it be possible (in the U.S. for example) to apply for a bank position (say business analyst) with a medical degree or would they laugh their asses off and tell you to piss off?

I think out of all the possible jobs--business sounds more interesting than the other fields and I'd like to know if I can get there with medicine. It's kinda hard to judge or gather real information through the internet so I'm looking for some real life information.

 

[da8s0859q]

Question: Would it be possible (in the U.S. for example) to apply for a bank position (say business analyst) with a medical degree or would they laugh their asses off and tell you to piss off?

I think out of all the possible jobs--business sounds more interesting than the other fields and I'd like to know if I can get there with medicine. It's kinda hard to judge or gather real information through the internet so I'm looking for some real life information.

Honestly, I think that at this point, you'd be better served by finishing out the degree even if you're not exactly "feeling it" right this moment. Having it will almost certainly do you more good than not having it.

 

[Go Ducks]

I think you are asking advice from the wrong people. American med students almost never drop out during their third year and MDs almost always go into something related to medicine. Here's why:

US students are carefully vetted before being accepted to med school. For example, I had tons of research experience and great grades/test scores but was rejected from all 20 schools I applied to my first time around because I didn't have enough medical experience. Even after a year of working full time as a surgical assistant in Africa, I was only accepted to a quarter of the schools I applied to.

American students are also older when they enter med school. Pretty much all are at least 21, most are closer to 23-26 years old.

Lastly, American medical students graduate with $150,000 to $300,000 of dept!

For all these reasons, I think that it is very rare for 3rd year US med students to change their minds and decide NOT to go into medicine--and you'll be really hard pressed to find a banker with an MD (outside of possible NGO/World Bank workers).

Bottom line: you should talk to other Europeans about this, and take what the Americans say with a grain of salt. Not everything translates well between European and American cultures, no matter how closely they are related. But being happy is important to us all.

 

[vanbamm]

I think you have analyzed the situation enough, and I think there comes a point where you have to realize what you WANT to do, and what you are GOOD AT. For the very lucky, these things are one in the same, for many others, they are not.

Being in medical school and being a doctor are two different worlds. Being in school is hard because you are learning and going through the motions at everything, meanwhile in the real world, you help people.

Getting back to your ideal job, I think you want to help people, hence your considerations for a career in law before you realized it is not what it is. I believe you need to give it a chance and stick with medical school.

A lot of people would give everything they have to be in your situation, and I think that being where you are, you have to discount any feelings of self loathing you might have, because in the end, in the world we live in and the crisis of health, you OWE it to yourself and the people you will treat to do what you are doing.

You might not be happy now, but no one is, seriously. Anyone that says they love being in school is lying. The might enjoy a class or some information here and there, but everyone is dying on the inside to get out there and practice. The people that you help are going to be glad they had you. The great thing about being a doctor is, you can CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES. Somone comes to you with a problem, you fix it. You may not realize the impact, but for example take dermatology. If someone has reallyt bad acne, they are probably self conscious and may have low self esteem. You look at the case superfically; bad acne and how to treat it. But once you treat it and it is gone, that person is changed, physically and mentally. I think it is obvious through reading your post that...that is what you want. Medical school is not all glory, but once you practice, I know you will find what you are looking for. As I always say, everything happens for a reason, and whether or not the answer is clear, it is there...sometimes, it just takes a while to develop because we are human and sometimes look in all the wrong places before we realize it is right in front of us but haven't caught up with that aspect of ourselves yet.

 

[vanbamm]

P.S. As far as responsibility go, you are going to have that in whatever job you land, medicine or not. I understand there is a difference in levels depending on your specialty. You said that your parents run a dermatology practice? There you go. It is not invasive, no surgery, no diagnosis other than skin problems. No touching, no physical examinations other than looking at the surface of the body. The obvious is often overlooked.

Also, have you looked into gynecology? A little more invasive, but you will always have business, and you will be helping people over and over again. Doctors I know that got into it were not even considering it until they did a rotation. Now they say they can't imagine doing anything else and they live they lifestyle they want while still doing what they want.

Some doctors admit they would rather being doing something else, one that comes to mind wanted to be a dentist. But realizing your talents and skills and how they can benefit people is really the prize. Work is work, it does not have to define you. At least in medicine, you have the opportunity to change lives, and make the money to do what you want outside of the office. Again, don't throw it away, you are there for a reason.