Didnt get in...what to do this summer?

[caledonia33]

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So I didnt get into any vet schools this year...

I am fairly positive I didnt make the cut because my GPA is not as strong as it should be, and I really should re-take organic chem and should probably re-take genetics. I graduate in May and DO NOT want to stay any longer, so my plan of action is to re-take two of my upper level science courses for As at a local college, then re-apply in the fall. But here is the catch.... I was offered a full time position for the summer working at an equine vet clinic. I would love, love, love to accept the job, however, the hours simply do not work with the summer classes.

At this point in time Im thinking I have to take the classes, because I need to show some kind of drastic change in my application to even be considered. Re-applying in the fall with my current GPA will just be a reiteration of last fall, and I highly doubt I will be considered. But will re-taking the classes really help my GPA? Does it matter that I graduated and then re-took the classes at a different school? (It doesnt matter how/where you take the req courses as long as they meet the minimum standards??) The vets at the clinic think that vet experience will be more beneficial on the application rather than an A+ in organic chem. Thoughts?

 

[MustLoveCats]

I was in a similar situation after CSU rejected me the first time. I was already working full-time during the week (to pay the bills) and working weekends at a SA clinic (for animal experience). I was also volunteering feeding horses at a rescue in the evening AND tutoring high school students. Then they tell me to take more upper division science courses to help with my application! How the heck was I going to fit school into my schedule when I was already working/volunteering 7 days a week/70 hours a week!?

So I decided to take a few online classes that summer. Animal Nutrition from Oregon state and Histology from CSU. I got A's in both. I didn't really need to improve my gpa, and taking a few classes isn't going to do that. But I did my best to show CSU that I can take 7 credit hours, while working/volunteering 70 hours a week. And hey, it worked! So if you don't really have an option to do school full-time (again), and you want to get some animal experience you can look into online classes. It may not improve your gpa that much but it still allows you to show adcoms that you can do well in school with a full work load.

 

[twelvetigers]

How 'bad' is a bad GPA? Are the classes you mentioned the only ones you made C's in (assuming that you made Cs, of course)? How many credit hours do you have, anyway?

And, how much veterinary experience do you already have?

These things will make a bit of difference for where you should focus the most. Did you do a file review with any schools? THAT is where you will get the best advice for what to focus on.

 

[LetItSnow]

Re-applying in the fall with my current GPA will just be a reiteration of last fall, and I highly doubt I will be considered. But will re-taking the classes really help my GPA? Does it matter that I graduated and then re-took the classes at a different school? (It doesnt matter how/where you take the req courses as long as they meet the minimum standards??) The vets at the clinic think that vet experience will be more beneficial on the application rather than an A+ in organic chem. Thoughts?

No it won't. Reapplying in the fall will be a reiteration of last fall PLUS a summer of full-time veterinary experience. My hunch is that that's more important than retaking orgo.

That said, you're taking shots in the dark right now. Your first step is to talk to the school(s) that rejected you and get more information about why. You may get no useful information (in which case all you've done is waste a bit of time) or you may get extremely useful information. In my case, I walked out of the meeting with a literal plan of action for improving my application (and then got accepted the next go-around).

So all in all, I wouldn't make a decision until you get more information. If you *have* to make one before then, my instinct would be that experience trumps grades, but that might differ greatly from school to school.

 

[Halebug]

So I didnt get into any vet schools this year...

I am fairly positive I didnt make the cut because my GPA is not as strong as it should be, and I really should re-take organic chem and should probably re-take genetics. I graduate in May and DO NOT want to stay any longer, so my plan of action is to re-take two of my upper level science courses for As at a local college, then re-apply in the fall. But here is the catch.... I was offered a full time position for the summer working at an equine vet clinic. I would love, love, love to accept the job, however, the hours simply do not work with the summer classes.

At this point in time Im thinking I have to take the classes, because I need to show some kind of drastic change in my application to even be considered. Re-applying in the fall with my current GPA will just be a reiteration of last fall, and I highly doubt I will be considered. But will re-taking the classes really help my GPA? Does it matter that I graduated and then re-took the classes at a different school? (It doesnt matter how/where you take the req courses as long as they meet the minimum standards??) The vets at the clinic think that vet experience will be more beneficial on the application rather than an A+ in organic chem. Thoughts?

I think the answer to this question really depends on what the rest of your vet school application looks like. If you already have a ton of other vet related experience and animal experience then it is probably a good idea to retake those classes because your GPA may be the reason you did not get accepted. On the other hand if you don't have a whole lot of vet experience I think it would be a good idea to take the job...since retaking a couple classes is not going to change your GPA all that much. Did you contact the schools that declined you to see what they recommend you do to strengthen your application?...that might really help this decision as well. I guess if it was me debating this I would take the job because you will be making money, doing something you really enjoy, and gaining experience at the same time.

 

[nyanko]

Also something to keep in mind is that some schools will not replace prior grades in the GPA, only average them, so if you got C's in those two courses getting an A is not going to help THAT much...

 

[LetItSnow]

Also something to keep in mind is that some schools will not replace prior grades in the GPA, only average them, so if you got C's in those two courses getting an A is not going to help THAT much...

Is there much *perceptive* value in replacing C's with A's? As in, some adcom looking at it and giving some subjective value to the improvement?

Or do they basically never notice, and only look at the final GPA calculations?

 

[twelvetigers]

I vote for the latter unless you've made it through the first cut, which is usually heavily based on GPA anyway.

 

[that redhead]

How 'bad' is a bad GPA? Are the classes you mentioned the only ones you made C's in (assuming that you made Cs, of course)? How many credit hours do you have, anyway?

And, how much veterinary experience do you already have?

These things will make a bit of difference for where you should focus the most. Did you do a file review with any schools? THAT is where you will get the best advice for what to focus on.

Exactly. A file review should help you make these decisions based on the schools that you applied to. Even though experience is fun, it may be worth it to retake the classes (C or lower, at least) to at least show taht you're dedicated to getting that GPA up and looking better on paper.

 

[libster06]

As everyone above said, it's hard to say what to do until you get your file review. I guess you could start applying to somewhere in preparation to take the summer course (should that be the direction you need to go in), but if in your file review they make more notes about your experience, GRE score or LORs, you might be wasting time.

When I did my file review with Miss. State, they never mentioned my GPA as a factor, nor did they bring up the C I got in Organic II. They did say I did not have enough LA experience and my GRE scores were "lower than average" and I did not have great LORs. I, too, thought I wasn't going to get in and was trying to form a backup plan so I had applied to local schools in preparation to take 2 classes I needed that kept me out of my IS school (I had to decline an offer), but I ended up getting accepted the week before I graduated college.

And again, as they said different schools value GPA differently, but all other things and grades considered most all schools don't focus on one or 2 C's... D's I would probably recommend retaking the course.

 

[CurrySpice]

Are you sure that you can make an A in Orgo during the summer after a C during the semester? I hate to bring this up, but summer classes tend to be very fast paced. If you don't understand Orgo easily, you're going to be spending all day every day studying just to try to keep on top of the material. Some people can do that, I know it would drive me crazy.

If you get a C twice in Orgo, it looks much worse than just getting a single C.

Most vet schools will consider your fall transcript. If I were you... I would take the summer vet job & sign up for both Orgo and Genetics Fall semester.

 

[caledonia33]

Thanks guys!!

To answer some questions:

I have quite a bit of large animal experience (I worked full time at this clinic last summer and have other experiences as well) which is why I figured another summer of working wasnt going to help too much.

I dont think my GPA will even make the cut off. Im hoping to graduate with a 3.0, but more realistically I will graduate in the 2.7/2.8 range. My GREs probably need to be improved as well. Lets just say, Ive always wanted to be a vet, but I really didnt make a serious decision/realize I need to make some serious changes until I was 3/4 of the way through my undergrad program and truthfully I was not prepared for the application process at all.

I know I can get an A in orgo if I re-take it, because a large part of why my GPA sucks is because of how unhappy I am at my undergrad institution. I cant wait to get out of there. I think I would benefit from the fast-paced 5 week program over the drawn out regular semester.

I only applied to one school last fall and was told that I didnt make the GPA cut off -- hence the reason something needs to change.

My plan was to re-take two classes this summer, re-apply to vet schools and also apply to the graduate program at my local college. If I dont get in this fall, hopefully I will get into the graduate program. I realize I am really not anywhere close to getting into vet school based on my grades, and Im realistically looking at seriously applying with the intention of getting in probably 2 years from now.

another thought -- since I probably wont get in for another 2 years, what if I accept the vet position, but maybe take 1 class online and then re-take orgo in the fall? I just feel like that isnt going to fix the GPA problem, but I really would love to work at the clinic. Ahhhh!

 

[twelvetigers]

If your GPA is 2.7 - 2.8, you might do well to take more than just two classes...

 

[squibby]

I have quite a bit of large animal experience (I worked full time at this clinic last summer and have other experiences as well) which is why I figured another summer of working wasnt going to help too much.

If you have a bunch of equine experience already I would definitely forget the job and focus on your gpa and getting into a graduate program, maybe even skipping an application cycle (because you won't be able to improve your gpa enough to make a difference).

When you do your file review try to get a feel for how strong your evaluations are, and if they can improve focus on that on the interim as well. Also, retake your GRE. Your gpa as it stands is too low to be counterbalanced by an awesome GRE score, but if you go to grad school and do well, the combination of that and a good GRE score would show them some academic competency.

 

[nyanko]

Is there much *perceptive* value in replacing C's with A's? As in, some adcom looking at it and giving some subjective value to the improvement?

Or do they basically never notice, and only look at the final GPA calculations?

That depends on the school and what stage this person's app is getting nuked in. If it's just some initial numbers cutoff stage then it probably wouldn't matter, eh?

 

[libster06]

Yea, unfortunately, I am not sure that 2 classes will do a whole lot of changing to your GPA. Assuming you got As, I don't think it would do much more than put you just over the cut off point.

 

[NStarz]

It depends on how many credits you have and how many credits each of those classes are as well. A's in 4 and 5 credit classes (if there's a lab component) can help a low GPA quite a bit.

 

[twelvetigers]

It depends on a lot of different things - if the school averages, total credit hours earned, etc.

OP, I would suggest doing some calculations and seeing what it would take to make it to a 3.0 - that would be the most ideal. I applied 3 times and got in this time, but only after getting myself back over a 3.0 (with more like a 3.3 in my required courses). It's an uphill battle, and I definitely (definitely) sympathize.

 

[libster06]

It depends on how many credits you have and how many credits each of those classes are as well. A's in 4 and 5 credit classes (if there's a lab component) can help a low GPA quite a bit.

That's true. I don't know a lot about GPA, especially depending on the school, it just seems like its so easily damaged and hard to repair (at least that's what it felt like for me).

 

[caledonia33]

Yeah, I know I have a lot of work to do. I know Im at least 1.5-2 years away from having a competitive application, if Im lucky.

They are 4 credit classes with optional 1 credit labs.

So my next question is regarding taking the classes post-graduation. Does it matter? How will my GPA be calculated if I have 2 completely different transcripts? (I know they will see all my course work on the online application, but will the re-take class GPAs be factored/averaged into my undergrad GPA?)

 

[NStarz]

That's true. I don't know a lot about GPA, especially depending on the school, it just seems like its so easily damaged and hard to repair (at least that's what it felt like for me).

Definitely 👍 I think getting a GPA over 3.0 is definitely a priority for the OP. If you can't get past the initial screening of the vet schools (which are usually by GPA), it won't matter how much vet/animal experience you have.

 

[twelvetigers]

Some schools (Oklahoma, Mississippi) will average grades for repeated courses. So a C + an A will = a B. Other schools (Western, Kansas) will replace the old score with the new one, which will be more beneficial for you. Sadly, I think the majority of schools average the scores.

Second, some schools look more heavily at your last 45 credits. This will help immensely if you showed some good improvement. Minnesota doesn't even look at your cumulative - they only consider the required courses/science and the last 45.

Third, different schools will calculate the science GPA in different ways. Some use specific courses - say, chemistries, math, and genetics. Others will include ANY science courses. This can help you out too, depending on where your strong points are.

Also, if you were to consider doing graduate work (which is an option, but only if you actually WANT to do graduate work) you should look for schools that will count that as part of your GPA. Some don't.

Do you have an IS school?

 

[caledonia33]

Some schools (Oklahoma, Mississippi) will average grades for repeated courses. So a C + an A will = a B. Other schools (Western, Kansas) will replace the old score with the new one, which will be more beneficial for you. Sadly, I think the majority of schools average the scores.

Second, some schools look more heavily at your last 45 credits. This will help immensely if you showed some good improvement. Minnesota doesn't even look at your cumulative - they only consider the required courses/science and the last 45.

Third, different schools will calculate the science GPA in different ways. Some use specific courses - say, chemistries, math, and genetics. Others will include ANY science courses. This can help you out too, depending on where your strong points are.

Also, if you were to consider doing graduate work (which is an option, but only if you actually WANT to do graduate work) you should look for schools that will count that as part of your GPA. Some don't.

Do you have an IS school?

Once again, thanks guys! I wish I found this board earlier!

It sounds like the general consensus is to focus on getting my GPA up. Deep down, I knew this was the case, I was just holding out for that slim chance that I could work at the clinic again this summer. I really wish I could do both, but the hours just dont work out. 🙁

I just found an online GPA calculator. I have some serious work to do, but I can get my GPA up over a 3.0 if I finish out my last semester on a high note, and do really well in the summer classes. More than likely I will take another class or two in the fall and get my GPA up over a 3.0. Now I just need to find some good student loans... lol

My IS school is UPenn. Yikes. I love, love, love UPenn and it would be a dream come true to get in, but I know my chances are slim. I think my next plan of action regarding the application process is to look more heavily at the schools that count the last 45 hours. I really have *no* desire to do graduate work, but it was suggested to me by several vets as a good option to "fill time" between cycles while also proving you can maintain a difficult course load.

 

[twelvetigers]

Absolutely don't do graduate work to 'fill time' unless you are looking to enter a program designed for improving applications for professional school. Your traditional two year, thesis-based masters is a lot of work and, if you don't like research and you aren't passionate about what you're working with, you will be pretty miserable. It's not worth it.

I have nearly 200 credit hours. If you can get your GPA up within a semester or two, count yourself lucky and definitely take advantage of that. Consider some upper-division classes that will help you out (and look good if you do well) such as immunology, parasitology, histology, etc. in addition to any repeated courses.

Also, in regards to UPenn... there are schools that you could attend OOS and then gain IS residency that would probably be cheaper for you in the long run. UPenn is pricey enough that several schools may be cheaper OOS anyway. So, while you should definitely consider UPenn and what they're looking for, you should also do some research on other schools and their course requirements.

 

[NStarz]

Also, in regards to UPenn... there are schools that you could attend OOS and then gain IS residency that would probably be cheaper for you in the long run. So, while you should definitely consider UPenn and what they're looking for, you should also do some research on other schools and their course requirements.

Additionally, Penn has really bad numbers in terms of IS/OOS for IS students. It's good for us OOS people, but I think they only take like 35% IS now?

 

[AngSchmange]

Additionally, Penn has really bad numbers in terms of IS/OOS for IS students. It's good for us OOS people, but I think they only take like 35% IS now?

Maybe, but you've gotta look at the people applying for these spots.

For instance, if UPenn takes 100 students, that'd be 35 IS. I think around 250 IS people apply for these spots, thats a 14% acceptance rate.
There's 65 spots for OOS, and about 1000 people or more, idk, apply for these spots. That's 6.5%. So it's quite easier for an IS student to get in, even though there are less spots available.


At least either these numbers or close or it's a pretty good idea of what schools have to face with IS/OOS. I went through this when I was at AVM at Tufts in 2009 and how, at this time, it was much easier as an instate to get in, when just looking at numbers and percentages 🙂

 

[NStarz]

Maybe, but you've gotta look at the people applying for these spots.

For instance, if UPenn takes 100 students, that'd be 35 IS. I think around 250 IS people apply for these spots, thats a 14% acceptance rate.
There's 65 spots for OOS, and about 1000 people or more, idk, apply for these spots. That's 6.5%. So it's quite easier for an IS student to get in, even though there are less spots available.


At least either these numbers or close or it's a pretty good idea of what schools have to face with IS/OOS. I went through this when I was at AVM at Tufts in 2009 and how, at this time, it was much easier as an instate to get in, when just looking at numbers and percentages 🙂

Touche.

 

[CurrySpice]

Maybe, but you've gotta look at the people applying for these spots.

For instance, if UPenn takes 100 students, that'd be 35 IS. I think around 250 IS people apply for these spots, thats a 14% acceptance rate.
There's 65 spots for OOS, and about 1000 people or more, idk, apply for these spots. That's 6.5%. So it's quite easier for an IS student to get in, even though there are less spots available.


At least either these numbers or close or it's a pretty good idea of what schools have to face with IS/OOS. I went through this when I was at AVM at Tufts in 2009 and how, at this time, it was much easier as an instate to get in, when just looking at numbers and percentages 🙂

Yeah, but then you look at the advantages that Alabama or Louisiana applicants have in applying and I'm just jealous.

I like Penn, but I don't have 500 hours of experience yet. I may apply in the fall just for kicks, but it's a tough IS school to have. I think I'll have better chances elsewhere.