discouraged and confused ms2

[deleted647155]

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im a ms2 who has been feeling discouraged and confused about whether to continue or drop out.

there has just been so many negative articles and posts on the reality of being a doctor on sdn, reddit, and kevinmd, not to mention all those articles on interns jumping off roofs...and doctors who just quit medicine...and the recently published book, Doctored, makes me angry and sad. This isnt what I signed up for...

classes are boring...i just keep thinking that i could care less...

im discouraged by memorizing stupid ****. i. discouraged by the hiearchy. im discouraged by an emr system that places billing before patient health. im discouraged by just the pure stress of being responsible for human lives.

i just feel so much regret for tunnel visioning myself before med school...i went to med school straight from college...i would make it mandatory that students pursue other careers before med school...

i think i bought into the false mentality that medicine is glamorous and that i would be saving so many peoples lives
i throw up when i read my personal statement...way to friggin naive...

im so confused and discouraged...

give me some envouragement about the realities of medicine? are there any doctors that are really happy?
maybe i need to hear from them? where are all the happy docs?

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

im a ms2 who has been feeling discouraged and confused about whether to continue or drop out.

there has just been so many negative articles and posts on the reality of being a doctor on sdn, reddit, and kevinmd, not to mention all those articles on interns jumping off roofs...and doctors who just quit medicine...and the recently published book, Doctored, makes me angry and sad. This isnt what I signed up for...

classes are boring...i just keep thinking that i could care less...

im discouraged by memorizing stupid ****. i. discouraged by the hiearchy. im discouraged by an emr system that places billing before patient health. im discouraged by just the pure stress of being responsible for human lives.

i just feel so much regret for tunnel visioning myself before med school...i went to med school straight from college...i would make it mandatory that students pursue other careers before med school...

i think i bought into the false mentality that medicine is glamorous and that i would be saving so many peoples lives
i throw up when i read my personal statement...way to friggin naive...

im so confused and discouraged...

give me some envouragement about the realities of medicine? are there any doctors that are really happy?
maybe i need to hear from them? where are all the happy docs?

Be happy that you're in a profession that will allow you to keep the lights on, bring food to the table ... I am feeling the same anguish for pharmacy ... we're the first to go when insurance companies figure out that machines are more economically sensible. After all, what kind of training do you need to push and dispense pills? 🙂

On the other hand, I don't think you need to worry about technology replacing you guys, yet. Medicine will always be refined and intricate with limitless confounding variables that require a properly trained physician (like you) to solve problems. Hang in there! This is seriously a once in a lifetime opportunity that you DON'T want to pass up.

Yours truly,
someone disgruntled for choosing pharmacy as a "career"

 

[The Kraken]

There is no way to shine positive light on the trials of becoming a physician. If you can realistically see yourself doing a different field, go and do it. If the sacrifice of medicine is worth it, keep on keeping on.

 

[Psai]

medicine is hard to get into and hard to do
good thing you learned about how pointless this path seems, it's impossible to convince premeds how it is
"if medicine is so bad then why are you in med school?"
...

 

[Pacna]

im a ms2 who has been feeling discouraged and confused about whether to continue or drop out.

there has just been so many negative articles and posts on the reality of being a doctor on sdn, reddit, and kevinmd, not to mention all those articles on interns jumping off roofs...and doctors who just quit medicine...and the recently published book, Doctored, makes me angry and sad. This isnt what I signed up for...

classes are boring...i just keep thinking that i could care less...

im discouraged by memorizing stupid ****. i. discouraged by the hiearchy. im discouraged by an emr system that places billing before patient health. im discouraged by just the pure stress of being responsible for human lives.

i just feel so much regret for tunnel visioning myself before med school...i went to med school straight from college...i would make it mandatory that students pursue other careers before med school...

i think i bought into the false mentality that medicine is glamorous and that i would be saving so many peoples lives
i throw up when i read my personal statement...way to friggin naive...

im so confused and discouraged...

give me some envouragement about the realities of medicine? are there any doctors that are really happy?
maybe i need to hear from them? where are all the happy docs?

There are a lot of physicians who hate their jobs. There are a lot of physicians who love their jobs. Which one are you going to be? I have no idea. I think it's fair to say (I'm an M1) that how much you enjoy M2 has little to do with how much you'll enjoy being an attending. I was once told that there is poop in every job (analogous to the things you're frustrated with).

The question you should ask yourself is whether you are willing to deal with that poop for the positive things you wrote about doing in your personal statement. You were necessarily naive. Nobody could show you exactly what your challenges would be like, and nobody will be able to now (I doubt you have the ****ing time, at this point). All I can say to encourage you is that you should not forget or belittle why you signed up for this. Despite all of the red tape, outdated or irrelevant drugs you have to memorize, and the hierarchy present in the medical field, you can still do some real good. You can still be what you wanted to be and do what you set out to do. I can't answer for you whether that's worth the sacrifice or not, but I know that's what keeps me going.

You're not the first person to feel this way, and you won't be the last. Talk to your friends and family about this. It's not wrong to quit, but I would say that it might be a mistake if you don't ensure that it's the right decision for you.

 

[Ismet]

Most of the doctors I've worked with are happy. I have yet to actually meet a doctor who is so jaded that he/she exudes this jadedness on everyone he meets (i.e. tells students to get out of medicine, lets jadedness affect patient care, etc). Not saying those doctors don't exist, but I think a "voice" is given to those doctors that makes them seem more prevalent than the docs who are pretty content or even happy with their job. I'm also pretty skeptical of those statistics that 30% or 50% or whatever of doctors would choose a different career if they could do it over. Sure they can say that, but I bet that most of those docs would make the same choice and still go into medicine. The grass is never greener on the other side.

It also might be because you're a 2nd year, and MS2 sucks. Last year was horrible for me in terms of my motivation, all leading up to Step 1. But 3rd year has generally been pretty great so far. You can't have an idea of what it's like to be a doctor until you actually start having a hand in patient care. And there will still be parts of clinical medicine that you don't like, there have certainly been many days on some rotations where the end of the day cannot come fast enough, or that I dreaded going to work in the morning. But then there was the rotation that I loved, didn't mind waking up at 4:30 and getting home after 12, 14, 16 hours at the hospital, and it pretty much solidified the field I want to go into.

Parts of the job suck, it's not all fun and games and happiness all the time, but NO job is perfect. That said, if you can see yourself seriously doing something else for the rest of your life, you should do that instead. But I think, for you, it might be a combination of being stuck in the rut of pre-clinical and perhaps not yet experiencing the field you enjoy/are suited for. Have you done any shadowing/observing in medical school? Talked to doctors? Anyone at school you can talk to about this?

 

[madchemist89]

Choose a lifestyle field.

 

[deleted526278]

Choose a lifestyle field.

To go off this, pick a field whose lifestyle you will enjoy doing for the next 30 years, not just based off of money or hours. Medicine is so varied and physicians are pretty much able to tailor their practice however they want, so I find it hard to believe there isn't a field or style of practice that everyone would enjoy. One of my advisors in pre-med (an MD/PhD) said that medical school is always a great choice because there is something you can do with an MD degree that will please everyone. Like talking to patients? Go into FM. Really like talking to patients? Go into psych. Like cutting into things? Do surgery. Hate patients with the fury of 1000 suns? Do path, rads, or go into research. Just want to make a ton of money? You know what fields to go into for that. Hate medicine all together? Don't do a residency, go find a business or something that wants you (I don't know why they would, but maybe?)

There will be bullsh*t to deal with in all these fields, but the point is that you should be able to find something in the wide world of medicine you like doing so much that it makes the bullsh*t tolerable. Every doctor I've ever talked to has seemed to love their job, except for the ones who didn't pick their field based on what they loved doing. By far the happiest doctors I have ever met (anecdotal, but still true) are pediatricians, who are some of the lowest paid physicians. The reason they were so happy is because all they wanted to do in life was help children get better, and that's what they got to do all day. They deal with just as much red-tape, if not more, as other physicians and are paid a lot less for it, but their first priority was their patients, so all the other stuff isn't such a big deal. Personally, I don't get that jazzed about helping kids so I would not be a good pediatrician, but I believe there is something out there in medicine that would motivate me like that.

And yes, SDN, surveys, and all those other things definitely attract the negative-nellies more than happy docs, so you hear more about them.

 

[Frazier]

To tangent off of what was mentioned above...

OP, maybe you just haven't found exactly which specialty you are passionate about. I can imagine it feels like a painful road to nowhere and asking "why am I even doing this?" when that's the case (I was there for a portion of my MS1 year).

After you start identifying some specialties that you're passionate about, you might get a little more motivated regardless of if they are competitive ones or not (i.e. "Okay, I know what I want to do for a living -- now I just need to get through the next 2-3 years to residency.").

Nevertheless some other "issues" will still remain, such as: gov red tape, admins riding your butt, EMR's, etc, etc.

So then you take that original specialty and insert it into the practice model that is most satisfactory in regards to your goals/values... For example, academics, community, PP group, PP solo, accept insurance, concierge, etc.

BTW, there are tons of happy physicians -- no reason you won't be one of them.

 

[bjb305]

im a ms2 who has been feeling discouraged and confused about whether to continue or drop out.

there has just been so many negative articles and posts on the reality of being a doctor on sdn, reddit, and kevinmd, not to mention all those articles on interns jumping off roofs...and doctors who just quit medicine...and the recently published book, Doctored, makes me angry and sad. This isnt what I signed up for...

classes are boring...i just keep thinking that i could care less...

im discouraged by memorizing stupid ****. i. discouraged by the hiearchy. im discouraged by an emr system that places billing before patient health. im discouraged by just the pure stress of being responsible for human lives.

i just feel so much regret for tunnel visioning myself before med school...i went to med school straight from college...i would make it mandatory that students pursue other careers before med school...

i think i bought into the false mentality that medicine is glamorous and that i would be saving so many peoples lives
i throw up when i read my personal statement...way to friggin naive...

im so confused and discouraged...

give me some envouragement about the realities of medicine? are there any doctors that are really happy?
maybe i need to hear from them? where are all the happy docs?

This post isn't surprising at all, I feel like a lot of people come into med school with this idea of what they think medicine is, only to find out it is completely different. I originally came in thinking I was going to do ER... but quickly crossed that out as most of the ER shift is primary care for the people that don't have primary care doctors (which I was not interested in whatsoever).

My advice -- find out what you are truly interested in and passionate about. I realized that the reason why I wanted to go to med school in the first place was to learn about diseases and diagnosis. Then I fell in love with anatomy. Now I'm a first year radiology resident where I get to look at anatomy all day and just diagnose then move on to the next case. I couldn't be any happier with my career choice. Do I love my job now? absolutely. Did I enjoy the training just to get up to this point? Nope. Would I do it again? Sure

 

[deleted500612]

Since you're already in MS2, I'd stick it out until you at least give MS3 a fair shot. A lot of your complaints stemming from having to memorize mundane pedantic bull**** is only a temporary tribulation and not something you will have to do to such a mind-numbing extent once MS2/step 1 is done with. Clinical years will give you a lot better picture into what doctors actually do every day and what the atmosphere is like.

The way I look at it is like this. If you weren't doing medicine, what else would you be doing? I'd say at least 90% of people out there hate their job. Chances are, you would be equally as uncertain and unhappy with another career field. Liking your job is not a necessity for it to be a good career, putting in work is just something that is just part of life. I know that medicine is not all sunshine and rainbows, and in fact can be pretty miserable at times. Yet, I realize that pretty much any other career would be the same. For me, it will simply be a means to make a living and support my family so I can enjoy my life outside of work. For others, medicine is what they've dedicated their entire life to, and thats what makes them happy. Either way, it's a career that is no better or worse than most other career out there in terms of how much you will enjoy it. I feel like the major problem is that people get these ridiculous misconceptions and delusions about the allure and prestige of medicine, then when the curtain is pulled back and they see it for what it really is, they are disappointed. It's like watching an awesome movie trailer that gets you all excited, but the movie ends up being entirely average after you go see it. The high expectations make it seem all the more disappointing. If you go in with realistic notions of what medicine is like, you'll see that compared to most alternative career options it's still not a bad choice.

 

[Kahreek]

if you see yourself doing something different, dont do it, everyone can do something else, but medicine is just ****ng awesome

 

[Kahreek]

This post isn't surprising at all, I feel like a lot of people come into med school with this idea of what they think medicine is, only to find out it is completely different. I originally came in thinking I was going to do ER... but quickly crossed that out as most of the ER shift is primary care for the people that don't have primary care doctors (which I was not interested in whatsoever).

My advice -- find out what you are truly interested in and passionate about. I realized that the reason why I wanted to go to med school in the first place was to learn about diseases and diagnosis. Then I fell in love with anatomy. Now I'm a first year radiology resident where I get to look at anatomy all day and just diagnose then move on to the next case. I couldn't be any happier with my career choice. Do I love my job now? absolutely. Did I enjoy the training just to get up to this point? Nope. Would I do it again? Sure

$

 

[W19]

The notion that people think they are not going to deal with bull$hit in medicine like every other career out there is unbelievable... Is there something magic about medicine (or life) that I am not aware of?

 

[operaman]

Most of the physicians I've worked with are very happy people and love their jobs. Medicine is so vast and individualized that it really comes down to knowing yourself and figuring out what makes you happy. my definition of hell would be primary care or er in the middle if nowhere, but I know people doing that who couldn't imagine doing anything else.

It sounds like you're feeling the burnout we all feel at times. If possible, this is a good time to turn to your support system and take a little more personal time to decompress. You may also want to shadow in some fields you won't see as an m3. Take a look at derm, ENT, rad onc, path, uro, rads, anesthesia, ophtho, etc. lots of happy people in those fields! They're all competitive, but you've got time to build a solid app if one of them really appeals to you. Put aside any preconceived notions wrt any field. I'm a smart guy but I think any preconceived notion I've had about a field has been mostly wrong.

I'd take any media or blog posts about medicine with a grain of salt. You can find newspaper and journal articles going back a hundred years saying basically the same things people are saying today about how the good days are gone. Not to minimize their concerns, just putting them in a broader context. No matter what, we still have plenty of sick people. Right now every OR on the east coast is humming along and the cst rooms are starting to cut. Our hospital has a full census and people are boarding in the Ed like at every other amc. Our Clinic patients are either waiting or on the road from hundreds of miles away for appointments they've been waiting for for months, just like at any other big hospital. There's lots of need and lots of good you can do and many different avenues to fulfilling work, all of which will allow you a comfortable income.

 

[xffan624]

The notion that people think they are not going to deal with bull$hit in medicine like every other career out there is unbelievable... Is there something magic about medicine (or life) that I am not aware of?

Well, not every career requires you to lay down almost a half million in debt and commit yourself to 11+ years of intense study. If you're dissatisfied at the end of it, then what was the point of all that sacrifice? There are shorter routes to disatisfying jobs that pay decent.

 

[NickNaylor]

The notion that people think they are not going to deal with bull$hit in medicine like every other career out there is unbelievable... Is there something magic about medicine (or life) that I am not aware of?

While I agree with this, medicine has enough variety (as others have said) to allow you to carve our your own practice if you'd like for most fields. For those interested in going off the beaten path, you really do have the ability to work in whatever environment you like.

I also think that many students try to lie to themselves when it comes to choosing their field and what is important to them in a career. That's a recipe for misery.

 

[DermViser]

Most of the doctors I've worked with are happy. I have yet to actually meet a doctor who is so jaded that he/she exudes this jadedness on everyone he meets (i.e. tells students to get out of medicine, lets jadedness affect patient care, etc). Not saying those doctors don't exist, but I think a "voice" is given to those doctors that makes them seem more prevalent than the docs who are pretty content or even happy with their job. I'm also pretty skeptical of those statistics that 30% or 50% or whatever of doctors would choose a different career if they could do it over. Sure they can say that, but I bet that most of those docs would make the same choice and still go into medicine. The grass is never greener on the other side.

It also might be because you're a 2nd year, and MS2 sucks. Last year was horrible for me in terms of my motivation, all leading up to Step 1. But 3rd year has generally been pretty great so far. You can't have an idea of what it's like to be a doctor until you actually start having a hand in patient care. And there will still be parts of clinical medicine that you don't like, there have certainly been many days on some rotations where the end of the day cannot come fast enough, or that I dreaded going to work in the morning. But then there was the rotation that I loved, didn't mind waking up at 4:30 and getting home after 12, 14, 16 hours at the hospital, and it pretty much solidified the field I want to go into.

Parts of the job suck, it's not all fun and games and happiness all the time, but NO job is perfect. That said, if you can see yourself seriously doing something else for the rest of your life, you should do that instead. But I think, for you, it might be a combination of being stuck in the rut of pre-clinical and perhaps not yet experiencing the field you enjoy/are suited for. Have you done any shadowing/observing in medical school? Talked to doctors? Anyone at school you can talk to about this?

The doctors you've worked with were in completely different circumstances that there are now and the circumstancse you will be practicing in. Using attending's happiness as a way to gauge your own happiness or that it will get better once you progress further into debt and time investment is a recipe for disaster.

 

[DermViser]

To go off this, pick a field whose lifestyle you will enjoy doing for the next 30 years, not just based off of money or hours. Medicine is so varied and physicians are pretty much able to tailor their practice however they want, so I find it hard to believe there isn't a field or style of practice that everyone would enjoy. One of my advisors in pre-med (an MD/PhD) said that medical school is always a great choice because there is something you can do with an MD degree that will please everyone. Like talking to patients? Go into FM. Really like talking to patients? Go into psych. Like cutting into things? Do surgery. Hate patients with the fury of 1000 suns? Do path, rads, or go into research. Just want to make a ton of money? You know what fields to go into for that. Hate medicine all together? Don't do a residency, go find a business or something that wants you (I don't know why they would, but maybe?)

There will be bullsh*t to deal with in all these fields, but the point is that you should be able to find something in the wide world of medicine you like doing so much that it makes the bullsh*t tolerable. Every doctor I've ever talked to has seemed to love their job, except for the ones who didn't pick their field based on what they loved doing. By far the happiest doctors I have ever met (anecdotal, but still true) are pediatricians, who are some of the lowest paid physicians. The reason they were so happy is because all they wanted to do in life was help children get better, and that's what they got to do all day. They deal with just as much red-tape, if not more, as other physicians and are paid a lot less for it, but their first priority was their patients, so all the other stuff isn't such a big deal. Personally, I don't get that jazzed about helping kids so I would not be a good pediatrician, but I believe there is something out there in medicine that would motivate me like that.

🙄

 

[W19]

Well, not every career requires you to lay down almost a half million in debt and commit yourself to 11+ years of intense study. If you're dissatisfied at the end of it, then what was the point of all that sacrifice? There are shorter routes to disatisfying jobs that pay decent.

Not every career put you in the upper middle class right out of school!

 

[DermViser]

The notion that people think they are not going to deal with bull$hit in medicine like every other career out there is unbelievable... Is there something magic about medicine (or life) that I am not aware of?

Yeah, it's called 6 figure debt for a house that doesn't exist, and years of delayed salary potential (with accruing debt and compounding interest) due to residency training.

 

[DermViser]

Not every career put you in the upper middle class right out of school!

Have you actually done the calcuations with respect to dollars per hour? Or are you just talking out of your you know what?

 

[W19]

Have you actually done the calcuations with respect to dollars per hour? Or are you just talking out of your you know what?

I made the calculation... I actually will leave med school and shell out 100k to get a master degree in education so I can become a great high school teacher🙄

 

[DermViser]

I made the calculation... I actually will leave med school and shell out 100k to get a master degree in education so I can become a great high school teacher🙄

No one's talking about end salary. A middle-schooler can do that. I was referring to taking everything into account -- compounding interest, opportunity cost, etc. That calculation is much more complicated and I highly doubt that you've done that.

 

[W19]

Everyday I spend in med school psych and PM&R are looking better and better...

No one's talking about end salary. A middle-schooler can do that. I was referring to taking everything into account -- compounding interest, opportunity cost, etc. That calculation is much more complicated and I highly doubt that you've done that.

PT schools 4 years ---COA 200k--- average salary 75k
Pharm school 4 years --- COA 240k---average salary 120k
OT schools 4 years -----COA 200k---average salary 65k
OD school 4 years ----COA 220k---average salary 90k
Dental school 4 years ----COA 300k---average salary 200k
PA school 2-1/2 years ----COA 130k--- average salary 95k

These # are for private schools...

They probably have been telling you all your life that you are a special snowflake... You are NOT. Get it! Time to put your big boy pants and deal with life...
I am sure you take buying power into account in your calculation...😛

 

[DermViser]

Everyday I spend in med school psych and PM&R are looking better and better...

PT schools 4 years ---COA 200k--- average salary 75k
Pharm school 4 years --- COA 240k---average salary 120k
OT schools 4 years -----COA 200k---average salary 65k
OD school 4 years ----COA 220k---average salary 90k
Dental school 4 years ----COA 300k---average salary 200k
PA school 2-1/2 years ----COA 130k--- average salary 95k

These # are for private schools...

They probably have been telling you all your life that you are a special snowflake... You are NOT. Get it! Time to put your big boy pants and deal with life...
I am sure you take buying power into account in your calculation...😛

Then stop using private school tuition numbers to inflate your point.

None of those fields have a mandatory 3-7 year residency in which your debt is accruing compounding interest. They immediately go to practice. I think it's interesting you tell me to put my big boy pants on, when as an M1 you are constantly complaining about Anatomy.

 

[W19]

Then stop using private school tuition numbers to inflate your point.

None of those fields have a mandatory 3-7 year residency in which your debt is accruing compounding interest. They immediately go to practice. I think it's interesting you tell me to put my big boy pants on, when as an M1 you are constantly complaining about Anatomy.

Coping mechanism! I will be fine... I just don't like when I am below average in any exam...so you want me to use public schools when there are a handful of them.

Are you telling me you will take 75k salary of a PT instead of doing 3-7 years residency to make 200k-700k because 0f 50k accrued interest? You are NOT serious! Are you?

 

[DermViser]

Coping mechanism! I will be fine... I just don't like when I am below average in any exam...so you want me to use public schools when there are a handful of them.

Are you telling me you will take 75k salary of a PT instead of doing 3-7 years residency to make 200k-700k? You are NOT serious! Are you?

1) There aren't a "handful" of public schools. You're either insanely naive or trolling if you think there aren't many public institutions that have med/dental/PT/Optometry/etc. schools.

2) Did you learn the concept of unit price in elementary school? Did you also learn what compounding interest is?

Your figures are completely off if you think every doctor that starts out after residency is making 200 K.

 

[W19]

1) There aren't a "handful" of public schools. You're either insanely naive or trolling if you think there aren't many public institutions that have med/dental/PT/Optometry/etc. schools.

2) Did you learn the concept of unit price in elementary school? Did you also learn what compounding interest is?

Your figures are completely off if you think every doctor that starts out after residency is making 200 K.

I have not counted but there are probably about 1/3 of professional schools (dental, PT, OT, OD, Pharm) that are public... You notice that I did not put med school in my list... Where did you get that compounding interest is something magic! You have no idea what you are talking about... In order to have that compounding interest you have to have the money to invest first... Are you telling me a PT that has 200k student loan with a 70k salary will have money to invest so he/she make make money in compounding interest! You still don't get what they call buying power!

Most doctors start making 180k+ right out of school...

 

[deleted647155]

thanks everyone for your replies, a lot of good info to consider

an exercise ive been doing lately is going to this site http://www.abms.org/member-boards/specialty-subspecialty-certificates/ and then thinking if i can imagine myself in that role lol

for example, cross out primary care and im specialties
cross out em, too stressful
cross out all surgical specialties and anesthesia because the or sucks
cross out radiology because i dont want to sit down on my ass all day in a dark room
that leaves psychiatry, neurology, pmr, derm, radonc

of these, i guess im inclined toward derm but ive shadowed a couple of dermatologists and it is quite boring...
ive also shadowed in neurology and radonc and almost fell asleep
psychiatry--ugh dont want to talk to people forever

that leaves 0 options left hehe

no, but im seriously considering dropping out and getting into the health administration/business side of things. i feel like the creative side of me is just being drained after each lecture...and the memorization doesn't stop after second year--there is still a ton of memorization in third and fourth year, not to mention in residency.

in the end, i guess you just have to ask yourself: what are you passionate about? what do you love to do? what will get you out of bed each morning? being a doctor for the money or prestige is a road to disappointment. don't stay in a job you hate.

it's your ****ing life. don't let other people's/society's expectations **** it up.

 

[Ismet]

The doctors you've worked with were in completely different circumstances that there are now and the circumstancse you will be practicing in. Using attending's happiness as a way to gauge your own happiness or that it will get better once you progress further into debt and time investment is a recipe for disaster.

Obviously. I'm not saying "everyone is happy so I'll be happy too!" I've worked with young attendings (like 5 years older than me), middle aged attendings, old attendings, and residents at many ages and stages of training. Yes the field is always changing and the circumstances are different, but from my n=1 perspective, I haven't seen that much of a difference.

I also said to find what makes OP happy, not to base his happiness on seeing that people in the field are happy. Not sure why you insinuated that. I don't care that the ophtho residents and attendings love their job. I would hate it. Peds people are generally quite happy, but I know plenty of people who would be miserable doing peds.

 

[DermViser]

Obviously. I'm not saying "everyone is happy so I'll be happy too!" I've worked with young attendings (like 5 years older than me), middle aged attendings, old attendings, and residents at many ages and stages of training. Yes the field is always changing and the circumstances are different, but from my n=1 perspective, I haven't seen that much of a difference.

I also said to find what makes OP happy, not to base his happiness on seeing that people in the field are happy. Not sure why you insinuated that. I don't care that the ophtho residents and attendings love their job. I would hate it. Peds people are generally quite happy, but I know plenty of people who would be miserable doing peds.

My point was that being happy vs. not happy is not the issue. The reason is why - which is much harder to tease out - i.e. level of debt, lifestyle, not having to go home to to the nagging wife, etc. Realize also that in academic medicine there is a bit of a taboo factor, esp. an academician who hasn't achieved tenure yet. The last thing that needs to filter up to the chairman is a junior faculty member who told a med student that he wouldn't do medicine if given the chance again.

Peds people are generally happy bc they are working with children - it's inherent to the filtered patient population itself. Unless you're a huge curmudgeon or severely depressed, seeing a child get better warms the heart of most physicians across specialties.

 

[Frazier]

thanks everyone for your replies, a lot of good info to consider

an exercise ive been doing lately is going to this site http://www.abms.org/member-boards/specialty-subspecialty-certificates/ and then thinking if i can imagine myself in that role lol

for example, cross out primary care and im specialties
cross out em, too stressful
cross out all surgical specialties and anesthesia because the or sucks
cross out radiology because i dont want to sit down on my ass all day in a dark room
that leaves psychiatry, neurology, pmr, derm, radonc

of these, i guess im inclined toward derm but ive shadowed a couple of dermatologists and it is quite boring...
ive also shadowed in neurology and radonc and almost fell asleep
psychiatry--ugh dont want to talk to people forever

that leaves 0 options left hehe

no, but im seriously considering dropping out and getting into the health administration/business side of things. i feel like the creative side of me is just being drained after each lecture...and the memorization doesn't stop after second year--there is still a ton of memorization in third and fourth year, not to mention in residency.

in the end, i guess you just have to ask yourself: what are you passionate about? what do you love to do? what will get you out of bed each morning? being a doctor for the money or prestige is a road to disappointment. don't stay in a job you hate.

it's your ******* life. don't let other people's/society's expectations **** it up.

I was getting really excited going down your list of specialties... thought psych had you then BAM -- dont want to talk to people.

I thought we had you.

In all seriousness, if you shadow your butt off and cannot find a single specialty you like then it would be likely wise to take a LOA for a year and see what the other side is like...then go from there. This is in opposition to diving in head first by dropping out then realizing 6 months later "awe man the other side sucks too...wonder if I show up to class tomorrow if they will say anything to me?"

 

[DermViser]

thanks everyone for your replies, a lot of good info to consider

an exercise ive been doing lately is going to this site http://www.abms.org/member-boards/specialty-subspecialty-certificates/ and then thinking if i can imagine myself in that role lol

for example, cross out primary care and im specialties
cross out em, too stressful
cross out all surgical specialties and anesthesia because the or sucks
cross out radiology because i dont want to sit down on my ass all day in a dark room
that leaves psychiatry, neurology, pmr, derm, radonc

of these, i guess im inclined toward derm but ive shadowed a couple of dermatologists and it is quite boring...
ive also shadowed in neurology and radonc and almost fell asleep
psychiatry--ugh dont want to talk to people forever

that leaves 0 options left hehe

no, but im seriously considering dropping out and getting into the health administration/business side of things. i feel like the creative side of me is just being drained after each lecture...and the memorization doesn't stop after second year--there is still a ton of memorization in third and fourth year, not to mention in residency.

in the end, i guess you just have to ask yourself: what are you passionate about? what do you love to do? what will get you out of bed each morning? being a doctor for the money or prestige is a road to disappointment. don't stay in a job you hate.

it's your ******* life. don't let other people's/society's expectations **** it up.

An SDN user with the name Dermalicious123 liking derm. I'm shocked! 😀

 

[W19]

.......

 

[xffan624]

I was getting really excited going down your list of specialties... thought psych had you then BAM -- dont want to talk to people.

I thought we had you.

In all seriousness, if you shadow your butt off and cannot find a single specialty you like then it would be likely wise to take a LOA for a year and see what the other side is like...then go from there. This is in opposition to diving in head first by dropping out then realizing 6 months later "awe man the other side sucks too...wonder if I show up to class tomorrow if they will say anything to me?"

Great advice. One of my friends took an LOA to really sort out if she wants to do this. Better to do that, than just stop caring and fail out. She got through MS1 ok, but MS2 is much harder to put the work in necessary to succeed if you're not motivated.

 

[Kahreek]

An SDN user with the name Dermalicious123 liking derm. I'm shocked! 😀

I like derm, i would do it if i had the scores or the blessing of someone in the field *cough* 😉*cough*

 

[DermViser]

For @DermViser, people can't be happy in medicine... I wonder if dermviser ever had a job in his life....

I never said that. But fantastic job making a strawman argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) and telling me what my position is. I should try to check out my opinions with you in the future just to make sure I'm getting them correctly.

 

[Kahreek]

thanks everyone for your replies, a lot of good info to consider

an exercise ive been doing lately is going to this site http://www.abms.org/member-boards/specialty-subspecialty-certificates/ and then thinking if i can imagine myself in that role lol

for example, cross out primary care and im specialties
cross out em, too stressful
cross out all surgical specialties and anesthesia because the or sucks
cross out radiology because i dont want to sit down on my ass all day in a dark room
that leaves psychiatry, neurology, pmr, derm, radonc

of these, i guess im inclined toward derm but ive shadowed a couple of dermatologists and it is quite boring...
ive also shadowed in neurology and radonc and almost fell asleep
psychiatry--ugh dont want to talk to people forever

that leaves 0 options left hehe

no, but im seriously considering dropping out and getting into the health administration/business side of things. i feel like the creative side of me is just being drained after each lecture...and the memorization doesn't stop after second year--there is still a ton of memorization in third and fourth year, not to mention in residency.

in the end, i guess you just have to ask yourself: what are you passionate about? what do you love to do? what will get you out of bed each morning? being a doctor for the money or prestige is a road to disappointment. don't stay in a job you hate.

it's your ******* life. don't let other people's/society's expectations **** it up.

it is work, it is supposed to suck, every will dislike it at some point or another. Administrative/business, only for the money, because even pathology is like being a extreme sport professional compared to that.

 

[W19]

I never said that. But fantastic job making a strawman argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) and telling me what my position is. I should try to check out my opinions with you in the future just to make sure I'm getting them correctly.

You should definitely check with me because you are spreading so much misinformation about finance here while you have no idea what you are talking about... There is nothing magic about compounding interest if you don't have money to earn the interest... You should stop talking about stuff that you don't have a clue about...

I apologize for assuming that you never had a job!🙂 However, you seem to be very naive for resident in derm...

 

[Kahreek]

I never said that. But fantastic job making a strawman argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) and telling me what my position is. I should try to check out my opinions with you in the future just to make sure I'm getting them correctly.

 

[DermViser]

You should definitely check with me because you are spreading so much misinformation about finance here while you have no idea what you are talking about... There is nothing magic about compounding interest if you don't have money to earn the interest... You should stop talking about stuff that you don't have a clue about...

I apologize for assuming that you never had a job!🙂 However, you seem to be very naive for resident in derm...

I have not spread any misinformation. They have done studies on this calculating $/hr worked (hence why I asked whether you learned what unit price means in grade school) taking into account years of education, educational debt, opportunity cost, etc. This varies greatly by specialty.

You give a list of private school tuition aggregates (as you seem to erroneously believe that there are only a "handful" of public schools) and somehow I'm supposed to be impressed, as you apparently believe, that every physician, no matter what specialty when they graduate, makes a guaranteed $200 K in salary --- which by then people also have families, maybe want to live in a semi-decent house, other expenses, have to pay that little thing called taxes, etc. Unless you plan on living like a hermit, your ONLY expenses at the end of your residency will not just be your student debt with accruing interest.

If anyone is naive on this particular topic, esp. an M1, it is you. Quit misrepresenting my position.

 

[deleted647155]

thanks for the continued discussion. sdn is like psych therapy =)

as to my username, Dermalicious123, i guess i wanted to cling onto derm...but then after shadowing a few dermatologists and being a derm patient myself, it's definitely not what i envision myself doing for the next 40 years.

i am indeed taking a LOA for the rest of the year--looking into some exciting healthcare reform positions.

the thing about medicine is that your identity is so invested into it from college (perhaps even high school) that when you finally get into medical school and see that it's not what you wanted, you fight tooth and nail to hang on to that identity. the golden handcuffs start much earlier than you think!

for many months i thought something was wrong with me because i totally had like an identity crisis--it felt as if my world fell...for many months i asked the question, "who am i?" "what am i doing?" "why am i doing this?" three important questions that i think everyone should ask themselves each year.

it's been a challenge to really change my thinking and rewire my brain to realize that i can have a very fulfilling life in other professions that allow me to still make an impact and contribute to society. there are billions of people without a medical degree--last time i checked, most of them are fine.

=)

 

[W19]

I have not spread any misinformation. They have done studies on this calculating $/hr worked (hence why I asked whether you learned what unit price means in grade school) taking into account years of education, educational debt, opportunity cost, etc. This varies greatly by specialty.

You give a list of private school tuition aggregates (as you seem to erroneously believe that there are only a "handful" of public schools) and somehow I'm supposed to be impressed, as you apparently believe, that every physician, no matter what specialty when they graduate, makes a guaranteed $200 K in salary --- which by then people also have families, maybe want to live in a semi-decent house, other expenses, have to pay that little thing called taxes, etc. Unless you plan on living like a hermit, your ONLY expenses at the end of your residency will not just be your student debt with accruing interest.

If anyone is naive on this particular topic, esp. an M1, it is you. Quit misrepresenting my position.

Do you understand what buying power is? If you do, I can continue that discussion with you....

 

[Frazier]

thanks for the continued discussion. sdn is like psych therapy =)

as to my username, Dermalicious123, i guess i wanted to cling onto derm...but then after shadowing a few dermatologists and being a derm patient myself, it's definitely not what i envision myself doing for the next 40 years.

i am indeed taking a LOA for the rest of the year--looking into some exciting healthcare reform positions.

the thing about medicine is that your identity is so invested into it from college (perhaps even high school) that when you finally get into medical school and see that it's not what you wanted, you fight tooth and nail to hang on to that identity. the golden handcuffs start much earlier than you think!

for many months i thought something was wrong with me because i totally had like an identity crisis--it felt as if my world fell...for many months i asked the question, "who am i?" "what am i doing?" "why am i doing this?" three important questions that i think everyone should ask themselves each year.

it's been a challenge to really change my thinking and rewire my brain to realize that i can have a very fulfilling life in other professions that allow me to still make an impact and contribute to society. there are billions of people without a medical degree--last time i checked, most of them are fine.

=)

Strong work.

 

[DermViser]

Do you understand what buying power is? If you do, I can continue that discussion with you....

I do understand what that concept is. It's quite obvious you don't (esp. since no one here except you is discussing it). In other words:

 

[DermViser]

thanks for the continued discussion. sdn is like psych therapy =)

as to my username, Dermalicious123, i guess i wanted to cling onto derm...but then after shadowing a few dermatologists and being a derm patient myself, it's definitely not what i envision myself doing for the next 40 years.

i am indeed taking a LOA for the rest of the year--looking into some exciting healthcare reform positions.

the thing about medicine is that your identity is so invested into it from college (perhaps even high school) that when you finally get into medical school and see that it's not what you wanted, you fight tooth and nail to hang on to that identity. the golden handcuffs start much earlier than you think!

for many months i thought something was wrong with me because i totally had like an identity crisis--it felt as if my world fell...for many months i asked the question, "who am i?" "what am i doing?" "why am i doing this?" three important questions that i think everyone should ask themselves each year.

it's been a challenge to really change my thinking and rewire my brain to realize that i can have a very fulfilling life in other professions that allow me to still make an impact and contribute to society. there are billions of people without a medical degree--last time i checked, most of them are fine.

=)

You have really great insight and perspective. I think it's great that rather than stay the course, you aren't falling into the common trap of tunnel vision. Hope it all works out regardless.

 

[circulus vitios]

If I could do it all over again, I'd go to dental school. Maybe even nursing school. Do a 28 month CRNA program and make $150k/yr by my late 20s.

 

[DermViser]

If I could do it all over again, I'd go to dental school. Maybe even nursing school. Do a 28 month CRNA program and make $150k/yr by my late 20s.

Just out of curiosity what makes you think you wouldn't be depressed in dental school? I don't know the time investment in terms of a CRNA starting from the end of college.

 

[circulus vitios]

Just out of curiosity what makes you think you wouldn't be depressed in dental school? I don't know the time investment in terms of a CRNA starting from the end of college.

No need to do residency. I mean I do like learning about medicine a lot more than learning about teeth, but the idea of 3 or more years of training is draining.

CRNA = 4 year BSN + 3 years ICU/NICU experience + 28 months CRNA school