discouraged and confused ms2

Started by deleted647155
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I agree with you a 100% I guess... But if someone says it's better to make 50k at 23 than 200k at 29 from a purely financial standpoint, I am gonna go ahead and call that BS.

If we're being totally honest, I'm thinking of my spouse making an undisclosed amount more than 50k, and me making any money at all :/

I probably shouldn't complain though, as I'm the lamprey. Sometimes I just get lost thinking of what it would be like to be a free-living fish.
 
Does this also take into account the other expenses you will have?:

Housing (hopefully by this time you will want to live in a house, vs. living in an apt. like you have your entire life)
Car
Getting married -- your wife will not take your oath of frugality as lightly
Children -- and all the expenses from that
401K
Malpractice insurance
Disability insurance
State income tax
Federal income tax
FICA/Payroll taxes
Your student debt that you can finally start making loan payments on.
Etc, etc.
My wife said purchasing power can make a huge difference in life and she gave me recent example that are close to us.... That was the example she gave me... Her sister is a pharmacist and when the housing market was at its bottom, her sister bought 2 condos... We wanted to do the same thing, but we did not have a 150k income, so we could not be qualified. Her sister got qualified easily because she is making 140-150k/year... She rented the condo and 4 years later she sold both for 300k+ and walked away with a profit of about 200k in 4 years... She could do that because she was making a lot of money. But we couldn't even if our credit were good... Non only that, she makes a lot of money in purchasing HOME DEPOT stock... Having a lot of disposable income can be a huge thing...

I don't know anything about finnace, but I will trust my wife before trusting med student in SDN...
 
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She said purchasing power make a huge difference in life and she gave me recent example that are close to us.... That was the example she gave me... Her sister is a pharmacist and when the housing market was at its bottom, her sister bought 2 condos... We wanted to do the same thing, but we did not have a 150k income, so we could not qualified. Her sister got qualified easily because she is making 140-150k/year... She rented the condo and 4 years later she sold both for 300k+ and walked with a profit of about 200k in 4 years... She could do that because she was making a lot of money. But we couldn't even if our credit were good... Non only that, she makes a lot of money in purchasing HOME DEPOT stock... Having a lot of disposable income is a huge thing...
Key words. Not all med students/residents are actively playing the stock market.
 
I thought you and w19 were talking about opportunities that come along when someone has a high income...
No, that's the topic he was discussing, apparently, only with himself.

Of course if you have more disposable income (cash immediately available) you can do a lot more. No one here is disputing what an end salary is. However, everyone knows that the end salary that one theoretically gets is not the entire picture and doesn't operate in a vacuum. The only exception is if your parents are fully paying your tuition and expenses (and yes there are classmates in med school like that).
 
No, that's the topic he was discussing, apparently, only with himself.

Of course if you have more disposable income (cash immediately available) you can do a lot more. No one here is disputing what an end salary is. However, everyone knows that the end salary that one theoretically gets is not the entire picture and doesn't operate in a vacuum. The only exception is if your parents are fully paying your tuition and expenses (and yes there are classmates in med school like that).

And then you become an indentured servant to the aforementioned parents ><
 
And then you become an indentured servant to the aforementioned parents ><
Yes, they are usually of the Asian heritage variety. 😛. That being said it's nice to have all of your wants and needs paid and taken care of during professional school - which I guess u pay back with the rest of your life.
 
thanks everyone for your replies, a lot of good info to consider

an exercise ive been doing lately is going to this site http://www.abms.org/member-boards/specialty-subspecialty-certificates/ and then thinking if i can imagine myself in that role lol

for example, cross out primary care and im specialties
cross out em, too stressful
cross out all surgical specialties and anesthesia because the or sucks
cross out radiology because i dont want to sit down on my ass all day in a dark room
that leaves psychiatry, neurology, pmr, derm, radonc

of these, i guess im inclined toward derm but ive shadowed a couple of dermatologists and it is quite boring...
ive also shadowed in neurology and radonc and almost fell asleep
psychiatry--ugh dont want to talk to people forever

that leaves 0 options left hehe

no, but im seriously considering dropping out and getting into the health administration/business side of things. i feel like the creative side of me is just being drained after each lecture...and the memorization doesn't stop after second year--there is still a ton of memorization in third and fourth year, not to mention in residency.

in the end, i guess you just have to ask yourself: what are you passionate about? what do you love to do? what will get you out of bed each morning? being a doctor for the money or prestige is a road to disappointment. don't stay in a job you hate.

it's your ******* life. don't let other people's/society's expectations **** it up.

So you say that you dont want to do x,y,z specialties because they are boring... and then the next sentence you are suggesting going into medical administration instead? You think pushing paper across a desk is more exciting than treating cancer? In that case, you're right, you should have gone into business.
 
So you say that you dont want to do x,y,z specialties because they are boring... and then the next sentence you are suggesting going into medical administration instead? You think pushing paper across a desk is more exciting than treating cancer? In that case, you're right, you should have gone into business.
Have you not met any government worker or anyone who works for a regulatory body? It's what they do and what they want to do. Clock in, clock out.
 
Yes, they are usually of the Asian heritage variety. 😛. That being said it's nice to have all of your wants and needs paid and taken care of during professional school - which I guess u pay back with the rest of your life.

Funny enough, my parents are actually super humble and not flashy at all, they're always like "where the hell did you come from fancy?!" so I try to spoil them as much as possible now that I can..I got my dad first class RT tix to the homeland for his birthday this year, and I'm gonna cover for him for the month that he and my mom are gone. It's an awesome feeling 😀
 
Funny enough, my parents are actually super humble and not flashy at all, they're always like "where the hell did you come from fancy?!" so I try to spoil them as much as possible now that I can..I got my dad first class RT tix to the homeland for his birthday this year, and I'm gonna cover for him for the month that he and my mom are gone. It's an awesome feeling 😀
I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily. The 0th generation that immigrates here is very frugal and hardworking, it just so happens that the first generation receives the benefit of that directly from their parents, so naturally there will be a feeling to want to give back to one's parents for doing so once one is able. Families are free to do that and I really do think many families would really do that if they could do it financially. The problem is tuition has so ridiculously skyrocketed vs. people's actual take home incomes (and I'm not just talking about middle class occupations - but even in higher professions) - that's pretty much financially impractical if not impossible for most. All this for the exact same, if not lesser value depending on the specific specialty in question and every decreasing reimbursements by insurers -- which just means you just cram in more patients in the same period of time.
 
You've lost me too unfortunately...

This is from a PT student... That is crazy that people would have that kind of student debt for a 65-70k job


Im attending DPT school. Now that im finally involved people are opening up about salary and the school actually provided me with cost of living #s. My loans are now calculated at $120,000. With accrued interest over:
30 yr repayment plan= $305,000~ $850mo
10 year repayment plan= $165,000~ $1,380mo

I've been told by numerous therapists (now theyll tell me since im in school) I should expect between 55-70 for my first 10 years of work.

lets say its $65,000

Fed tax: 25%. $65,000x .75 = $48,750

State tax:
7.5% x $65,000= $4,875 $48,750-$4,875= $43,875

Average cost of living:
rent ($600x 12mo= $7,200)+ cable+internet ($80x12mo= $960)+ govt estimated cost of living- w 100$ extra for more food. ($665x12mo= $7,980) total= $16,140.
$43,875-$16,140= $27,735

Transportation+ insurance:
car: nat'l ave according to edmunds~ $450 ($450x12mo= $5400) + insurance ($1,500) = $6,900
$27,735- $6,900- $20,835

Final #s
Option 1- 30 yr repayment. $850x12mo= $10,200
$20,835-$10,200= $10,365

Option 2- 10 yr repayment. $1,380x 12mo= $16,560
$20,835- $16,560= $4,275

Imagine if I wanted to buy a house... subtract atleast $5,000 more from each one.

What I seek is insight to whether or not people in the field feel this situation is worth it to them? PT is not a job im in love with and 'just cant live without'. its a job that involves things im interested in and I feel its a job I wouldnt hate.

However I could enjoy just about any job. For example even being a car salesman or waiter or bartender in a city for a few years would net me close to the same salary, without loan repayments would allow me to save and open up a business and STAND a chance to oneday get ahead.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like I'll never stand a chance.

But before I make a rash decision to suspend my enrollment I was interested in advice.

Thanks!
 
This is from a PT student... That is crazy that people would have that kind of student debt for a 65-70k job


Im attending DPT school. Now that im finally involved people are opening up about salary and the school actually provided me with cost of living #s. My loans are now calculated at $120,000. With accrued interest over:
30 yr repayment plan= $305,000~ $850mo
10 year repayment plan= $165,000~ $1,380mo

I've been told by numerous therapists (now theyll tell me since im in school) I should expect between 55-70 for my first 10 years of work.

lets say its $65,000

Fed tax: 25%. $65,000x .75 = $48,750

State tax:
7.5% x $65,000= $4,875 $48,750-$4,875= $43,875

Average cost of living:
rent ($600x 12mo= $7,200)+ cable+internet ($80x12mo= $960)+ govt estimated cost of living- w 100$ extra for more food. ($665x12mo= $7,980) total= $16,140.
$43,875-$16,140= $27,735

Transportation+ insurance:
car: nat'l ave according to edmunds~ $450 ($450x12mo= $5400) + insurance ($1,500) = $6,900
$27,735- $6,900- $20,835

Final #s
Option 1- 30 yr repayment. $850x12mo= $10,200
$20,835-$10,200= $10,365

Option 2- 10 yr repayment. $1,380x 12mo= $16,560
$20,835- $16,560= $4,275

Imagine if I wanted to buy a house... subtract atleast $5,000 more from each one.

What I seek is insight to whether or not people in the field feel this situation is worth it to them? PT is not a job im in love with and 'just cant live without'. its a job that involves things im interested in and I feel its a job I wouldnt hate.

However I could enjoy just about any job. For example even being a car salesman or waiter or bartender in a city for a few years would net me close to the same salary, without loan repayments would allow me to save and open up a business and STAND a chance to oneday get ahead.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like I'll never stand a chance.

But before I make a rash decision to suspend my enrollment I was interested in advice.

Thanks!

This person's math is wrong. Based on his income, his estimated tax burden would be about $9500. That is a tax rate of about 15%. When in the 25% bracket, not all of your money is taxed at 25%. I will assume his actual state tax amount would be different too...
 
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This person's math is wrong. Based on his income, his estimated tax burden would be about $9500. That is a tax rate of about 15%. When in the 25% bracket, not all of your money is taxed at 25%. I will assume his actual state tax amount would be different too...
Maybe he includes medicare/SS withholding on his calculation as well... Regardless, I will not spend 120k on degree that can get me a 70k/year job... I also think he was very generous about housing cost --$600/month! What part of the country that one can get a $600 apartment?
 
Maybe he includes medicare/SS withholding on his calculation as well... Regardless, I will not spend 120k on degree that can get me a 70k/year job... I also think he was very generous about housing cost --$600/month! What part of the country that one can get a $600 apartment?

That estimate was with the withholding. It would likely be lower due to deductions of loan interest. As for that price rent, I've seen that in multiple states that I've lived in...
 
This person's math is wrong. Based on his income, his estimated tax burden would be about $9500. That is a tax rate of about 15%. When in the 25% bracket, not all of your money is taxed at 25%. I will assume his actual state tax amount would be different too...

I remember that post from the PT forum. We agreed that he was been a little bit excessive with his taxes, almost nobody ends up paying >30% of their income in taxes, especially with a PT salary.
 
Maybe he includes medicare/SS withholding on his calculation as well... Regardless, I will not spend 120k on degree that can get me a 70k/year job... I also think he was very generous about housing cost --$600/month! What part of the country that one can get a $600 apartment?

That estimate was with the withholding. It would likely be lower due to deductions of loan interest. As for that price rent, I've seen that in multiple states that I've lived in...

He was just saying $600 in rent before any utilities/other bills...I agree, that is doable in a lot of states.
 
Having >100k in debt as a PT and still having a comfortable life is totally doable, there are thousands of PTs all over the country doing it. Having greater than >200k however...that is going to be a big burden. PSLF is an option that I'll look into if I (heaven forbid) somehow end up in that position, but that is not without its risks and downsides either.

Like I said before, I guarantee you nobody goes into PT for the money. :laugh: