DNP or Resident

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Nancy Nurse said:
I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves.........................
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:laugh:
 
Nancy Nurse said:
Also, med students are the only ones that I know that have to read a book entitled "How to Talk to Your Patients" Nurses do this every day. Unlike medical students who are fresh out of high school when enrolling, many NP's and certainly those obtaining DNP's have been practicing for on average 10 years.
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Actually DNP is now entry level at some schools. Perhaps more of this will occur after others see the $ gained from 3-4 years of grad courses... Direct entry DNP is out there already - so point is somewhat mute as it has been around already almost as long as the DNP degree itself.
Actually medical students are not fresh out of high school (even if they were.. how does this correlate to doctor proficiency.. would the best doctor be a LPN that's been at a LTC facility for 20 years... I'm sure...) MD applicants are typically graduating with a 4 year degree in natural science + years of volunteer or working in lab.. comparing the practice of medicine with nursing and their recruitment like this is somewhat ridiculous. MD actually have a track record of some success where DNP is a loose fitting curriculum that is based largely on theory rather then a long term study. Look at the variance within the DNP through several schools... there is no clear curriuculum or outcome... or measurable / quantatitive goal that has been achieved. seriously?
I like the the idea of the clinical doctorate for a nancy nurse but it still in its developmental phases.


I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves.........................
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Concrete evidence right there.
 
Nancy Nurse said:
...So I can assume that most of you out there bashing NP's and the new DNP are afraid that they will take your jobs...
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Oh man. Please, take This Mother****er with my compliments. I am every day extremely sorry that I ever got involved in this goat rodeo cum cluster **** that we call American Medicine and if I wasn't in so much debt and now completely unqualified to do anything else in life that pays even close to what I will make in six months I'd drop This Mother****er like a hot rock.
 
Nancy Nurse said:
...I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves....
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Completely apocryphal and completely ridiculous, that is, your inference that nursing students are learning pathology at a higher level than medical students.

Are you daft? Nursing is an honorable, useful, skilled, and highly sought-after profession with its own body of knowledge and its own challenges. There is no need to go to ridiculous lengths to defend it which is kind of the modus operandi of every mid-level, every quack, and everybody in every allied health field, their brother, and the horse they rode in on.

Good Lord.
 
Nancy Nurse said:
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Also, med students are the only ones that I know that have to read a book entitled "How to Talk to Your Patients" Nurses do this every day. Unlike medical students who are fresh out of high school when enrolling, many NP's and certainly those obtaining DNP's have been practicing for on average 10 years.
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And yet, not meaning to spray cold water on your dog-on-dog nursing love fest but plenty of nurses, to put it bluntly, are rude, lazy, incompetant, and nothing but clock watchers and card punchers. I'm kind of spoiled because I generally only work with Emergency Department and ICU nurses but there are hospitals (cough...VA...cough) where the nurses are so incompetant that I would shudder to send my family there. Not only are many of them extremely rude to the patients but their lack of compassion is as palpable as their desire to lock themselves in the break room while their patients suffer.

Sorry to buck the conventional wisdom here but there is no profession that is immune to human nature.
 
Nancy Nurse said:
Rotational hours do not make a good practitioner. Experience, judjement, critical thinking make the practitioner. So I can assume that most of you out there bashing NP's and the new DNP are afraid that they will take your jobs. Well that may not be a bad thing to think. Do the research, patient satifaction is higher for NP's than for MD's in any Press Ganey report. I don't know what hospital you work for, but the hospital goes by these reports with respect to hiring/firing etc.
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Most nurses and doctors despise Press Ganey, patient satisfaction surveys, and every other tool of the smothering bureaucracy that afflicts the practice of American medicine.

Real doctor practicing real medicine being really blunt with really sick or stupid patients: Low Satisfaction Score.

Real nurses taking care of really sick patients while fending off the malingerers, drug seekers, and other sundry idiots: Likewise.

Fake Doctor practicing low-acuity medicine being happy, happy, touchy feely with patients with minor complaints looking for an ego stroke and a shoulder upon which to cry: High satisfaction score.

I'd be embarrassed to base my professional satisfaction and job security of Press Ganey although that's what This Mother****er is coming to. All it really shows is that by some out-of-touch bureaucratic standard, you are a "nicer" person which has nothing to do with your ability as a clinician.
 
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How do "quote multiple posts"?


J/K...sort of.




As for the "the public is more satisfied with nurse practitioner" argument, it is a lovely example of a red herring that tends to be played by the nursing side when the lack of training and equivalency of nursing training is brought up.


Listen, I would report more satisfaction if my naturopath visit had a "happy ending" versus seeing my medical doctor but I doubt my asthma would improve much. In general, lay people are stupid and ignorant, which is why hospitals started focusing on the touchy-feelly "Disney World" theme instead of directing attention on areas that actually improve patient health. Who cares if the patient received the best medical attention if they have nice fluffy pillows and can order room service whenever they want, because they probably won't know the difference about the former and the latter might result in improved satisfaction scores.


As the GM of a used car lot once told me, "sell the sizzle, not the steak". Seems like it applies here.
 
Nancy Nurse said:
I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves.........................
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What exactly do you want people to figure out from that? I once had to show a scrub nurse how to activate a Zosyn piggyback, meanwhile somewhere out there a 2nd grader successfully opened a CapriSun pouch. n=1 is hardly a valid representation of a demographic.

Personally, I have no problem with NPs, as many non-teaching hospitals have begun staffing them in FasTrack with good results. NPs dispo the patients, and ED docs sign off on it, giving them more time to work with the more complex cases. I think the problem many people have with DNPs is that such practitioners are trying to encroach on turf that they are not adequately trained for. Arguing that a DNP education + 10 years BSN or even MSN experience is equivalent to Medical School + Residency is just plain inaccurate. It's not just about keeping patients happy with the care they received during their visit, but making the appropriate healthcare decisions that would benefit them best in the long run.
 
nurse students learning more pathology than med students?? wow, that's a new one. Which next excuse is going to be used by NP's and DNP's to glorify their new tittle????

LOL, sorry but i cant stop laughing at nurses learning more path than med students!! LOL. sorry!!!

In my school I took 9 credits of pathology and 9 credits of pathophysiology and another 9 credits of physiology. I did a search and I cant find a nursing curriculum with 27 credits devoted to pathology/pathophisiology
 
The classes taken in a nursing program and a medical program have different objectives, so it would not make sense that the students come out at the same level. While both are to "learn" the information, the breadth and depth of learning is different because the eventual application and understanding will be different.

I tutor nursing students in a few different areas [pharma/hard science stuff, not nursing theory, etc], and while they need to know a great deal of information and are quite competent in the classes and in application, the eventual application and usage is different.
 
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Therapist4Chnge said:
The classes taken in a nursing program and a medical program have different objectives, so it would not make sense that the students come out at the same level. While both are to "learn" the information, the breadth and depth of learning is different because the eventual application and understanding will be different.

I tutor nursing students in a few different areas [pharma/hard science stuff, not nursing theory, etc], and while they need to know a great deal of information and are quite competent in the classes and in application, the eventual application and usage is different.
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exactly!! because one group studied to be nurses and the other to be doctors, you dont see doctors going into the nursing field trying to be nurses even though there's a shortage of nurses in the country! why then would nurses go into the field of medicine to fill a shortage of docs??

I really dont believe this excuse of nurses trying to fill a doctor shortage, because, they have one of their own!!!
 
Nancy Nurse said:
Rotational hours do not make a good practitioner. Experience, judjement, critical thinking make the practitioner. So I can assume that most of you out there bashing NP's and the new DNP are afraid that they will take your jobs. Well that may not be a bad thing to think. Do the research, patient satifaction is higher for NP's than for MD's in any Press Ganey report. I don't know what hospital you work for, but the hospital goes by these reports with respect to hiring/firing etc.

Mention Press Ganey with a straight face - 1 point

And how many of your bashing the NP's would like to work in the rural areas, where low income, low socioeconomic, and medicaid abounds. You can only thank yourselves for the NP surge an now the DNP surge, as it is due to the lack of practitoners in these areas that has led to this insurgence.

Pretends that NPs want to work in rural areas and that its the fault of physicians - 1 point

Also, med students are the only ones that I know that have to read a book entitled "How to Talk to Your Patients" Nurses do this every day. Unlike medical students who are fresh out of high school when enrolling, many NP's and certainly those obtaining DNP's have been practicing for on average 10 years.

Nurse are better than doctors - 1 point

I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves.........................
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Nurses are smarter than doctors - 1 point
I teach at a well known nursing school 1 point

First post trashes the whole physician profession on SDN - 1 point
Name - 1 point

Grand total 7/10 on the troll meter. Not bad for a first try. You even got a rise out of the panda. Not bad.

For better trolldom consider the following statements.

"tons of studies show that NPs provide equivalent or superior care to physicians"

"NPs can practice without physician supervision in all 50 states, the district of Columbia and on Mars"

"Since the DNP has the word Doctor in it, DNPs are the equivalent of a board certified physician"

"Since DNPs are both Doctors and Nurses providing the best of both worlds and superior care"

The awful thing is that this is just like Mysterioso. You look at it and say this has to be a troll. There is no way someone could actually believe this tripe. But there's that element of truth. You picture a starched middle management nurse that occasionally teaches at "a famous east coast nursing school" cruising the hospital with a clipboard touting the latest Press-Gainey scores. Unfortunately most of us have met that person.
 
Hello all,
I find all these posting very interesting. This is my first posting and I do not want to offend ANYONE. First, I am a nursing student. My father is in an EM doc. He loves his chosen field and I dig mine as of now. With that being said, why all the fighting over fields and titles? I went into nursing because I wanted to do just that... nurse. I enjoy patient care and the responsibility of physicians is not what I wanted. That is why I chose nursing (do not get my wrong, there is plenty of responsibility with nursing, just not the same type as physicians). I remember my pops missing my school events and sporting events because he was working so hard. Once again, not what I wanted. With that being said, I do like the idea of going to an NP program, but not because I want to be a doctor! If I choose that route I want to be an NP. I want to get the most knowledge out of my profession that I can get! It is a personal choice, but being a nurse with any title does not make me a doctor.
Now, why all the animosity? Are we not all working for the same common goal? Cost effective pt. care, with the best possible outcomes. Doctors cannot do their jobs with nurses, nor can nurses do their jobs without doctors (obviously, haha). At the end of all of this nurses are nurses and doctors are doctors. There are lazy nurses, lazy docs, some in either field can be incompetent and some can be exceptionally good at what they do! That is what we should all be striving for.
The only thing that is getting me is the NP, PA argument. Why the arguing here. From what I have heard, NPs are advanced practice nurses and PAs are trained in just that...so is this another title argument or is there a difference? I know that NPs need to have nursing experience and PAs have to have some type of hospital experience (although I think there are programs that do not require that now).
Before I make a decision in where I want to take my future education I would appreciate your views between the two. I thought they were practically the same, just different routes taken to get there. UCLA offers NP programs with many options (I am leaning toward acute care) and USC offers a PA program. I cannot imagine either of these two schools is letting out incompetent professionals.
 
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1) Press-Ganey reduces my role to nothing more than whether or not I smiled and offered to change the thermostat in the room. I'm far more valuable than that, thanks, so let's no hang our coat on something so worthless. I monitor patients for subtle but critical changes in status. I manage pain and complex wounds. My interventions, while they may seem simple at times (repositioning, cough and deep breathe) improve outcomes and prevent complications. My teaching helps patients manage their own care when they go home. NONE of that is measured by Press-Ganey.

2) I'm an RN, finishing my Bachelor's degree, GPA somewhere just above 3.8, but I still know less patho than a med student. Let's not get delusional here. Our careers have different focuses and that's okay. I don't need to compete with med students to be a valuable nurse.

3) I'm a damn good nurse.

4) I cannot, for the life of me, open a Capri-Sun pack without spilling it.
 
core0 said:
You picture a starched middle management nurse that occasionally teaches at "a famous east coast nursing school" cruising the hospital with a clipboard touting the latest Press-Gainey scores. Unfortunately most of us have met that person.
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During the fall semester I took a class taught by this person. I lost a significant number of points on my final paper, because while indicating how I would assess a young women with abdominal pain, I omitted a pelvic exam because it is beyond my scope of practice. That paper brought my course grade from an A to an A- and I'm a little pissy about it. :laugh:
 
I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves.........................
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You know, I have this really old book called Sue Barton, Student Nurse. (Gets up and gets old paperback from bookshelf.) Author's name: Helen Dore Boylston. On p.83, pp.9, ln.4 "...a resident officer, on being shown the questions in anatomy and physiology, had remarked, 'Gosh, I don't believe a second-year medical student could pass that.'"

There was something about that quote that bugged me, and it just dawned on me where it came from. I knew it was an old chestnut from way back, but I forgot where it came from. FWIW, this book was written in 1939, so "Gosh" was pretty strong language back then. :laugh:
 
Tired said:
You're a nursing student, so I'm not going to wail on you too much over this statement . . . however, I'm sick of hearing this statement and please never say it again.

The reason physicians are annoyed with the NP movement is because some (not all, maybe not even most, but a vocal fraction) of them are pushing for independent practice despite having substandard education & training. This is about providing patients quality medical care. Bringing up the trite, overused "team" argument is nothing more than a red-herring. So don't do it.
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Thanks for not "wailing" on me. Done and noted. I am still learning. You made good points and I already understand your frustration. I have heard multiple employees use titles they are not entitled to use and I think it looks more ignorant on their part (not to mention illegal).

I totally understand your frustrations with the NP movement. An example would be a dental hygienist trying to become a dentist. Most people would not go for that. However, with years of experience and the proper education, we cannot say that a dental hygienist does not know as much as a dentist...it is not our place to assume.

In the end, it seems that we all have better things to do than argue something that is out of our hands. It is ultimately up to federal and state governments to decide; as well as our patients. I actually have a nursing professor who is a FNP and she worked as one for one week and went back to floor nursing because she said she was uncomfortable with her position. I think that should be the determining factor. People who are not confident in their training and what they know, should be smart enough to say "this is out of my hands," (that goes for physicians as well).

As I said in my message, I do NOT want to be a doctor. Being a nurse with any title does not make me a medical doctor (and you guys should never and will never be replaced). I am proud to be a nurse (student at this point). If I wanted to be a doctor I would have gone to medical school. However, I think that there is nothing wrong with NPs or PAs. Used correctly they are very good for the medical field (especially placed with a good physician I am sure they can learn a lot!).

If you look at states where NPs are able to practice independently, they are only repaid 40-50% of what a physician would be repaid (which makes sense). So, most choose not to practice independently even though they are able to.

Speaking of choosing...people have the right to choose. Physicians have the right to choose to hire a NP or a PA and patients have the right to choose whether they see them. With that being said, if NPs training is substandard why do physicians choose to hire NPs? When I talk to physicians who have been in the field for longs periods of time (my father (emergency medicine), and his two brothers (anesthesiologist and psychiatrist)), they tell me that the NPs they work with are excellent and very well trained. So, I think maybe being a resident, the idea of NPs is frustrating, but maybe when you get into your practice you will think differently (or maybe not).

I think as times change so will health care and that is not anyone's fault. There will always be doctors, nurses, cnas, and all in-between. The problem is someone will always work for less and that is what everyone looks for (physicians included). That is not necessarily right or the best way to go, but that is the way of the world. I respect all people willing to give their lives to medicine because it was something I debated doing and it wasn't for me. So, much respect to you all…


I learned in my younger years not to argue with a physician (kind of like a lawyer, you never win). So, I am not trying to argue, just better understand. So, don't get too fired up.
 
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TuffOne said:
Thanks for not "wailing" on me. Done and noted. I am still learning. You made good points and I already understand your frustration. I have heard multiple employees use titles they are not entitled to use and I think it looks more ignorant on their part (not to mention illegal).

I totally understand your frustrations with the NP movement. An example would be a dental hygienist trying to become a dentist. Most people would not go for that. However, with years of experience and the proper education, we cannot say that a dental hygienist does not know as much as a dentist...it is not our place to assume.

In the end, it seems that we all have better things to do than argue something that is out of our hands. It is ultimately up to federal and state governments to decide; as well as our patients. I actually have a nursing professor who is a FNP and she worked as one for one week and went back to floor nursing because she said she was uncomfortable with her position. I think that should be the determining factor. People who are not confident in their training and what they know, should be smart enough to say “this is out of my hands,” (that goes for physicians as well).

As I said in my message, I do NOT want to be a doctor. Being a nurse with any title does not make me a medical doctor (and you guys should never and will never be replaced). I am proud to be a nurse (student at this point). If I wanted to be a doctor I would have gone to medical school. However, I think that there is nothing wrong with NPs or PAs. Used correctly they are very good for the medical field (especially placed with a good physician I am sure they can learn a lot!).

If you look at states where NPs are able to practice independently, they are only repaid 40-50% of what a physician would be repaid (which makes sense). So, most choose not to practice independently even though they are able to.

Speaking of choosing...people have the right to choose. Physicians have the right to choose to hire a NP or a PA and patients have the right to choose whether they see them. With that being said, if NPs training is substandard why do physicians choose to hire NPs? When I talk to physicians who have been in the field for longs periods of time (my father (emergency medicine), and his two brothers (anesthesiologist and psychiatrist)), they tell me that the NPs they work with are excellent and very well trained. So, I think maybe being a resident, the idea of NPs is frustrating, but maybe when you get into your practice you will think differently (or maybe not).

I think as times change so will health care and that is not anyone's fault. There will always be doctors, nurses, cnas, and all in-between. The problem is someone will always work for less and that is what everyone looks for (physicians included). That is not necessarily right or the best way to go, but that is the way of the world. I respect all people willing to give their lives to medicine because it was something I debated doing and it wasn’t for me. So, much respect to you all…


I learned in my younger years not to argue with a physician (kind of like a lawyer, you never win). So, I am not trying to argue, just better understand. So, don't get too fired up.
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Uhhh... I think that physicians have the right to get fired up when nurses are trying to take over their scope of practice without adequate training. Although legislation may finally get to dictate who will be called what and what the scope of practice DNP's will finally have after all is said and done, that does not mean that physician's should not, for the sake of their patients' safety, protest the DNP movement that is being led by Mary Mundinger, PsychoNP.

There are some really excellent nurse practitioners out there who work with doctors and make their lives easier. But the scope of practice is way different than what Mundinger wants. She wants to make them colleagues of physicians without the training-- no way that is a good idea for anyone, especially for patients.

Currently doctors hire midlevels to help them with their practice, not as partners. Big difference. If something goes wrong, there should be someone with the appropriate training to assist.
 
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TuffOne said:
I learned in my younger years not to argue with a physician (kind of like a lawyer, you never win). So, I am not trying to argue, just better understand. So, don't get too fired up.
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FYI, not always true. However, a lawyer just wants to win and is not concern with "the truth."
 
silas2642 said:
Uhhh... I think that physicians have the right to get fired up when nurses are trying to take over their scope of practice without adequate training. Although legislation may finally get to dictate who will be called what and what the scope of practice DNP's will finally have after all is said and done, that does not mean that physician's should not, for the sake of their patients' safety, protest the DNP movement that is being led by Mary Mundinger, PsychoNP.
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You can and should be as fired up as you want to be! I mostly meant don't get fired up at me specifically! You are grouping all nurses into one category. I do not believe a majority of nurses (especially nurses) or nurse practitioners want to take your scope of practice. Like tired said earlier "it is a vocal few." I think for the most part that is true. I know for a fact that if I was to become a NP, I would definitely want to work for a doc (although, I say that early in my education) because you are right, there should be a medical doctor there to "handle business," if it is needed. I have not disagreed with anybody from the start!

Now once again I am not trying to start a fight. I am only going off what I have heard and read from other practitioners. However, there are many posts saying that NPs should not be allowed to practice on their own because based on the argument that their training is substandard and not adequate. Yet, in order for NPs to work, physicians have to be willing to put their lisence on the line for that person. Wouldn't it be smarter, if in fact an NPs training is substandard, to let NPs practice on their own so in case something did happen, you wouldn't have to take the hit? Now, I DO NOT personally believe that. Just refuting the remarks against inadequate education for NPs.

When all is said and done, I would say that anethesiologist have the most right to be pissed off. CRNAs don't have to work for an anesthesiologist, just an MD, and don't have to work under anybody in a few states. It seems to me that if anyone is getting screwed, it is them. I guess they don't really care because there are enough jobs to go around, not to mention CRNAs must be properly trained because if they weren't I doubt their jobs would have been around since the late 1800s, early 1900s! Same goes for physicians. Even if NPs are allowed to work independently, there will always be jobs for all and physicians will always be top notch!

zenman said:
FYI, not always true. However, a lawyer just wants to win and is not concern with "the truth."
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Well that is a perfect example of my statement! You had to have the last word on something that was really not that important...just I guess...to make a point???
 
TuffOne said:
Well that is a perfect example of my statement! You had to have the last word on something that was really not that important...just I guess...to make a point???
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Tuff'n up will you! Yes, it was to make a point. Your statement needed correcting. If it wasn't so important why did you bring it up?
 
zenman said:
Tuff'n up will you! Yes, it was to make a point. Your statement needed correcting. If it wasn't so important why did you bring it up?
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Well, Doc, thanks for the correcting. I wouldn't expect any less on a site like this. Who isn't being TUFF? I am trying to hold a conversation with a bunch of people who are far more educated than myself! I am just having some fun with you guys. I love the doctors I have been around. They have taught me a truckload plus some. I respect you all and I won't continue with where I went because I learned what I needed to. I will give you guys this...we (or I guess I should not speak for all nurses, so) I am lucky for for people like you who are willing to dedicate their lives to something they love. I am willing to dedicate my life as well, just not in the same way as you guys are. So, keep fighting the good fight and hopefully I may one day get to take care of some of your patients! I will be lucky to be able to and I am confident in saying you will be lucky for me taking care of your patients. I take what I do very seriously (as do all of you). I just believe in giving credit where credit is due. I do not believe the only way to treating patients is through medical school. You guys are able to sub-specialize in many fields in medicine and I too believe that nurses should be able to pursue further education even if it comes close to a physician's education.
Take it easy fellas,
TuffOne
 
Yeah, uh, thanks for not speaking for all nurses.
 
TuffOne said:
Well, Doc, thanks for the correcting.
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Just for the record I'm not a doctor. Last time I was a "doc" was when I was an ARMY medic. You can consult PandaBear for the correct terminology in addressing me. 😀
 
TuffOne said:
Well, Doc, thanks for the correcting. I wouldn't expect any less on a site like this. Who isn't being TUFF? I am trying to hold a conversation with a bunch of people who are far more educated than myself! I am just having some fun with you guys. I love the doctors I have been around. They have taught me a truckload plus some. I respect you all and I won't continue with where I went because I learned what I needed to. I will give you guys this...we (or I guess I should not speak for all nurses, so) I am lucky for for people like you who are willing to dedicate their lives to something they love. I am willing to dedicate my life as well, just not in the same way as you guys are. So, keep fighting the good fight and hopefully I may one day get to take care of some of your patients! I will be lucky to be able to and I am confident in saying you will be lucky for me taking care of your patients. I take what I do very seriously (as do all of you). I just believe in giving credit where credit is due. I do not believe the only way to treating patients is through medical school. You guys are able to sub-specialize in many fields in medicine and I too believe that nurses should be able to pursue further education even if it comes close to a physician's education.
Take it easy fellas,
TuffOne
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Actually, you shouldn't be speaking for any nurses, because you are not a nurse. You're making a fool of yourself. Those of us who are nurses are cringing.

Please, get your education first and have some clue what you're talking about.
 
fab4fan said:
Actually, you shouldn't be speaking for any nurses, because you are not a nurse. You're making a fool of yourself. Those of us who are nurses are cringing.

.
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yeppers.....

'Cringing' is fancy MSN talk, huh Fab? I was just gonna go with the low brow puking....
 
fab4fan said:
Actually, you shouldn't be speaking for any nurses, because you are not a nurse. You're making a fool of yourself. Those of us who are nurses are cringing.

Please, get your education first and have some clue what you're talking about.
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Hey, thanks for the insight. Making a fool of myself, not a nurse? Oh, my feelings are hurt now...hahaha.
Educate myself? What exactly am I educating myself on? On how long doctors go to school? How usually only the best students in the country can get into medical school? I think that statement could be made for anyone who has gone to see a doctor. Not just nurses, but for everyone in this country. I am pretty sure when you are extremely ill you are going to feel lucky that someone was willing to give up so much to be able to save your life. Don't get all high and mighty on me...
 
<bored>
<hopes that feces throwing actually gets interesting... this is a sad display wit slinging>
 
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TuffOne said:
Hey, thanks for the insight. Making a fool of myself, not a nurse? Oh, my feelings are hurt now...hahaha.
Educate myself? What exactly am I educating myself on? On how long doctors go to school? How usually only the best students in the country can get into medical school? I think that statement could be made for anyone who has gone to see a doctor. Not just nurses, but for everyone in this country. I am pretty sure when you are extremely ill you are going to feel lucky that someone was willing to give up so much to be able to save your life. Don't get all high and mighty on me...
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Was the above statement supposed to mean something? The ability to write clearly is a valuable skill.
 
Farmer Jane said:
Was the above statement supposed to mean something? The ability to write clearly is a valuable skill.
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I am not quite sure about why you would be confused by me asking questions...however, it isn't really worth my time anymore! Drunk and Chargers lost! New things to move on to...

fab4fan said:
I think we're in trouble, Jane. We may not be able to retire if that was an example "Nursing: The Next Generation."
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Good times...I guess there is not much to say. I really don't know how to reply to you. Hopefully you do retire at some point soon though and quit floating around SDN. I saw what I wanted to see and three days later I am over it. Obviously it entertains you thoroughly though.

PEACE and LOVE my friends...
 
TuffOne said:
I am not quite sure about why you would be confused by me asking questions...however, it isn't really worth my time anymore! Drunk and Chargers lost! New things to move on to...



Good times...I guess there is not much to say. I really don't know how to reply to you. Hopefully you do retire at some point soon though and quit floating around SDN. I saw what I wanted to see and three days later I am over it. Obviously it entertains you thoroughly though.

PEACE and LOVE my friends...
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You're right...it is entertaining when one who isn't yet a nurse claims to have the answers or have such knowledge about the profession, casting aside years of advice from people who have BTDT. I'm afraid your wish for me to leave SDN will have to go unfulfilled. So sorry.
 
Farmer Jane said:
1) Press-Ganey reduces my role to nothing more than whether or not I smiled and offered to change the thermostat in the room. I'm far more valuable than that, thanks, so let's no hang our coat on something so worthless. I monitor patients for subtle but critical changes in status. I manage pain and complex wounds. My interventions, while they may seem simple at times (repositioning, cough and deep breathe) improve outcomes and prevent complications. My teaching helps patients manage their own care when they go home. NONE of that is measured by Press-Ganey.
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👍👍👍 Last night I would have received a poor patient satisfaction score from the patient's wife, because I refused to disconnect the patient from his furosemide gtt so the wife could get some sleep (patient was constantly up to the BR, disturbing poor wife🙄). I wanted to ask her why she wanted him to die; maybe she had a hefty insurance policy on him. But no, like the good little nursey, I just smiled pretty and explained what furosemide is and why it was important for the patient to get it, and that frequent urination is not only to be expected, but it is the goal of therapy. When she continued to request that it be stopped, I finally had to say "the drip will continue until Dr. ******* orders it to be stopped.", and that shut her up. I had to invoke the D word to get any credibility. 🙁 After all, I'm just the stupid nurse, here to bring you jello and blankets, I don't have to actually know anything except where the coffee pot is.

4) I cannot, for the life of me, open a Capri-Sun pack without spilling it.
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:laugh:
Try holding the very top of the package with one hand, putting no pressure on the contents, while poking the straw in at a steep angle with the other hand. I swear, it works!
 
Nancy Nurse said:
Rotational hours do not make a good practitioner. Experience, judjement, critical thinking make the practitioner. So I can assume that most of you out there bashing NP's and the new DNP are afraid that they will take your jobs. Well that may not be a bad thing to think. Do the research, patient satifaction is higher for NP's than for MD's in any Press Ganey report. I don't know what hospital you work for, but the hospital goes by these reports with respect to hiring/firing etc.

And how many of your bashing the NP's would like to work in the rural areas, where low income, low socioeconomic, and medicaid abounds. You can only thank yourselves for the NP surge an now the DNP surge, as it is due to the lack of practitoners in these areas that has led to this insurgence.

Also, med students are the only ones that I know that have to read a book entitled "How to Talk to Your Patients" Nurses do this every day. Unlike medical students who are fresh out of high school when enrolling, many NP's and certainly those obtaining DNP's have been practicing for on average 10 years.

I taught at a well known nursing school in the East Coast. When my nursing students were on a medical floor studying for patho finals, a medical student looked at the notes and stated "we don't even have to know that" So start figuring it out for yourselves.........................
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wow, so this is what awaits me if I pursue primary care... aaarrghghghg
 
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Thanks for the tip Virgo! I'll have to try that next time I'm around little ones. :lol


IMO, though, knowing the coffee pot location is of utmost priority. 😛
 
Someone had to come along to entertain us post Julie...
 
fab4fan said:
You know, I have this really old book called Sue Barton, Student Nurse. (Gets up and gets old paperback from bookshelf.) Author's name: Helen Dore Boylston. On p.83, pp.9, ln.4 "...a resident officer, on being shown the questions in anatomy and physiology, had remarked, 'Gosh, I don't believe a second-year medical student could pass that.'"

There was something about that quote that bugged me, and it just dawned on me where it came from. I knew it was an old chestnut from way back, but I forgot where it came from. FWIW, this book was written in 1939, so "Gosh" was pretty strong language back then. :laugh:
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I love it when people take a story they read or heard, personalize it, then pass it off as their own.

And I absolutely gush when people get called on it.
 
Farmer Jane said:
IMO, though, knowing the coffee pot location is of utmost priority. 😛
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Not me. :scared: I'm a coffee lightweight. Just give me my one cup in the morning, and I'm good to go.
 
virgo said:
Not me. :scared: I'm a coffee lightweight. Just give me my one cup in the morning, and I'm good to go.
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that's ok if it's followed by :
a cup when you get to work
a cup at lunch
a cup midafternoon
a late afternoon cup
and a cup for the road to get you home....
and maybe one at home with a little something added.....say scotch....
hey, I'm working 209 hrs this month....
 
My morning latte contains four shots of espresso.
 
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