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Do all DO students graduating 2020 or later need to take USMLE or for competitive?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by cryhavoc, May 20, 2017.

  1. sab3156

    sab3156 5+ Year Member

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    At least you aren't like some of my classmates who think they will be matching Ortho with simply a good step 1. They're about to have a rude awakening in a couple of years.

    While I agree with and see what you're saying in general, I think the real hurt that @zero0 is alluding to is the feeling when you hear pin-drop silence from a huge amount of programs that are interviewing students from MD schools with stats way lower than yours. It can be painful to see the MDs with 230s interview and match at excellent IM program, while the DO counterpart with the 240 struggles with getting any of those same interviews, and maybe ends up at a community program that they didn't want to go to.

    There are a lot of reasons why someone may not have felt the DO hindrance was applicable to them during the match - they could have had a seat basically ready for them due to connections or they had their sights set on a program that has consistently taken DOs. Those types of people, of course, would have felt that they had no problems during the match.
     
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  3. AnatomyGrey12

    AnatomyGrey12 2+ Year Member

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    Bruh what? It would be so easy to simply have an additional omt section for DOs...

    Um none because they won’t have to. A few programs will require them to learn OMT and a few probably will.

    The USMLE is a much better exam. By far.

    Um for money? Also it’s legally required for DOs to practice medicine...

    No they will still get one but it won’t be a competitive one, unless it’s one of the former AOA programs that doesn’t care about the USMLE.
     
  4. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Physician Faculty Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    To be fair, its not only former AOA programs that are ok with only looking at COMLEX scores. Places that match a decent percentage of DOs usually are. Places that don't probably require USMLE. But then, if they really don't take DO's anyways, then taking the USMLE probably isn't going to change that. Kind of a catch 22.
     
  5. Neopolymath

    Neopolymath 2+ Year Member

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    Based on your recent posts it seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how all this stuff works and goes together. Did your school confuse you or something?
     
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  6. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    It was actually posts on here that taught me three things.

    1) A decent COMLEX is better than a decent COMLEX and a failed step 1. In fact, failing step 1 severely limits your options.

    2) Someone in the bottom third of their class probably shouldn’t be taking step 1 and should focus on COMLEX.

    3) Most psychiatry residencies, except for the very most competitive ones, accept COMLEX.

    All things I learned on here. But that in combination with I don’t even have the money to take step 1, seems obvious to only to COMLEX.

    And by looking at excel sheets, it seems like most DO students who match psych only take COMLEX.

    I don’t know about other specialities though. Perhaps step 1 is required for those and that’s why people with different interests seem so insistent on risking step 1.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  7. zero0

    zero0 everything i hug dies 2+ Year Member

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    Yeah there's quite a few of those in my class as well. I weep for them. Not really, they're insufferable as I'm sure you'd guess.
     
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  8. Neopolymath

    Neopolymath 2+ Year Member

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    I don't think you have seen anyone disagree with what you said above or said you should take step 1 if you are in that situation. I don't think you could produce a quote of a post saying that here. I was mostly referring to your rant that you plan on going to a worse program to somehow receive better training and that you don't understand why we would get rid of comlex in the ideal world not the usmle lol. That's strategy that just screams of rationalization and naivety more than anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  9. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    I was being purposely naive for the sake of sarcasm/playing devil’s advocate. Should have added an emote. Of course only one exam would be better. Most practicing DO’s don’t even use OMT and most patients can’t even tell the difference between them.

    As for one test, the reality is, that isn’t going to happen for a long time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  10. jw3600

    jw3600 5+ Year Member

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    I don’t understand. Are you trolling? Your posts in this thread have been steaming hot garbage.
     
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  11. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    “Garbage”? From 10 seconds of browsing your post history, all of your posts are generally a sentence long and consist of poor grammar, cussing, chat speak and knee jerk negative reactions to someone else’s posts. Hello pot, my name is kettle.

    I could understand why anything not incredibly simplistic and straight-forward would be considered garbage.

    I have two pieces of advice to all the people purposely trying to provoke me in this thread with rude comments like my posts being garbage, I’m ranting, acting poorly or that I am naive or confused. You guys really like to pile on the criticism, so here is some criticism and advice for you.

    1) Get a life.

    2) Learn to disagree without coming off as condescending and rude. If not for my sake, but for the sake of the hundreds of patients and coworkers you’ll interact with on a weekly basis in the future. It completely causes someone to ignore your advice and just generally dislike you. It isn’t what you say but how you say it. It is a very valuable skill not just for a physician but for any human-being.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  12. Neopolymath

    Neopolymath 2+ Year Member

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    Yes, invoke Burnett's law because someone said your posts haven't been making sense in this thread LOL.
     
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  13. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    Grow up.
     
  14. Neopolymath

    Neopolymath 2+ Year Member

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    Hey, man, I'm not the one telling someone they are going to be a bad doctor because they didn't like your opinion on a relatively benign and entertaining message board.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  15. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    I have no positive or negative emotions toward your actual opinion and do not think your opinion has any reflection on your competence.

    I’m simply stating you were rude in your delivery and that people don’t listen to an opinion if the delivery is rude.
     
  16. Drrrrrr. Celty

    Drrrrrr. Celty Osteo Dullahan 7+ Year Member

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    You're going to have so much fun during 3rd year lmao.
     
  17. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    I have no problem treating people with respect.

    Try being rude to the nursing staff and patients and tell me how your third year goes.

    I’ve worked in a hospital before for years. You’re going to actively have patients, doctors and nurses screaming in your face and you still need to act mature and polite.

    If you can’t even manage politeness when discussing benign topics, you’re going to have a bad time.

    Although the worst and rude people online tend to be spineless in reality. I’m thinking that is probably the case. More of a case of “kick the dog”. Just remember that your poor stress coping skills don’t give you a free pass to be rude.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  18. Neopolymath

    Neopolymath 2+ Year Member

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    Lol. Yes, you have it right. No one else has worked in healthcare before school or knows how to be a normal, friendly person. No one else is always not just not mean but always actively polite online. Only one person here is woefully lacking perspective here. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. You are quite sensitive. Aside from JW, no one hurt you.
     
  19. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    Because obviously when someone is in the minority they are automatically in the wrong.

    Because the right way to act is always the most popular way to act.

    (Sarcasm alert, by the way, since people have trouble spotting sarcasm.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  20. BorntobeDO?

    BorntobeDO? SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    If this thread keeps going this direction I am going to have to make a 'take 2 midol and call me in the morning' joke. And that would be mean and insensitive, don't make me do it!









    j/king, I am way to nice to do that even on forum that's causing havoc with all its crying.
     
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  21. IsWhat

    IsWhat 5+ Year Member

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    I’ve been wondering about this. Would it be safe for DOs to just take step 1 and skip step 2? I mean, what’s the point of taking both step 1 and step 2 if the gains of a step score are going to be modest for most DO friendly specialties/programs?
     
  22. BorntobeDO?

    BorntobeDO? SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    Good job being on topic, so I will answer. Fellowships want to see step 2, that is the main reason. If you search different fellowships of say IM, you will see that a good amount of them require step 1 and 2 to even apply. Some want step 3 also, but that is more of a 'get lost DO's' than anything else IMO.
     
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  23. jw3600

    jw3600 5+ Year Member

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    Please tell me you're joking.
     
  24. jw3600

    jw3600 5+ Year Member

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    Take the USMLE. End thread.
     
  25. cryhavoc

    cryhavoc 2+ Year Member

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    *If you need it for your desired speciality (and are capable of scoring higher than or similar to MD’s who also want that speciality), want access to the most competitive residencies, are absolutely confident you can pass it on your first try and are willing to accept the very real possibility of severely limiting your options if you fail (good COMLEX and step 1 > good COMLEX > good COMLEX and failed step 1).

    There are caveats.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  26. Neopolymath

    Neopolymath 2+ Year Member

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    Yes, of course.
     
  27. VeryVesalius

    VeryVesalius 2+ Year Member

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    Does anyone know when they are going to let PAs merge residencies with ACGME ones? We are just the same as other doctors. *please read my next comment after reading through the following ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  28. Chibucks15

    Chibucks15

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    1/10 troll job. I've come to expect better out of SDN cmon now!
     
  29. QueenJames

    QueenJames 2+ Year Member

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    I know ur trolling but I'm feeling very mean so here goes.

    When PAs decide to learn real damn medicine and all the nitty gritty details and decide to undergo 3rd and 4th year rotations besides some sappy 3-year program before thinking they can play doctor.

    Oh...

    but that would mean actually applying to and attending real medical school... wouldn't it?

    Answer to your question is never.
     
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  30. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    Very soon bc most docs don’t want primary care. You just need to market:

    Holla Primary Care. Doctorate PA willing to work anywhere and anytime to alleviate physician shortage.
     
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  31. VeryVesalius

    VeryVesalius 2+ Year Member

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    Tis true. I was perhaps trolling but I was trying to make a point. My point is, I knew someone somewhere would not be able to let this post go unnoticed. It's a tricky situation. Most of the PAs I know were capable of being doctors but chose not to. The allopaths have not been able to have a complete monopoly over medical schools and have tried to quell the ascent of the osteopaths. For example, look under "1962, California" heading in the wikipedia article about osteopathic medicine. Here's the new problem that has been created: now specialists have taken steps to limit the number of residency spots available for their specific residencies. This way they can demand higher salaries. We have to come to grips with the reality that they have created a toxic atmosphere where lines are drawn so others can feel superior and money has been put ahead of the patient well-being. I interviewed at some MD schools this year and I have equal respect for MDs, DOs, and PAs. If you are an allopathic physician it's 100% luck if you step back and see it from a different perspective. If you are born with the ability to do well on a test of mental gymnastics, that doesn't carry over to reality. For example, the MCAT is just a way to have fewer "qualified" applicants. The reality is that it doesn't take a genius to memorize some basic procedures. Anyone who has taken a shelf-exam (including me for my MS degree) knows that board questions are nothing like the MCAT. You either know the answer or you don't. Decisions are still being made. Hopefully I'll have learned not to be a p**k by the time I make it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  32. AnatomyGrey12

    AnatomyGrey12 2+ Year Member

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    You’re right. They are 10x harder...
     
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  33. QueenJames

    QueenJames 2+ Year Member

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    LOL oh come on gunner.

    You're my boy but bruh..

    Like more than HALF of all medical students end up in FM, IM, Peds (that's not counting Psych or OB which depending on who you ask what primary care entails).

    I get that you like crapping on primary care bro... but let's not paint a pic that primary care is hell and is ripe for the taking by midlevels.

    And sure.

    If PAs or NPs wanna do primary care, then take off their training wheels, have them pay for their own malpractice, and see how many actually end up trying to continue with independent practice.

    Most of them LIKE having a safety net and strictly care for lifestyle bro.

    Fake news like that boy Trump. I thought you knew better bruh bruh.
     
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  34. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    Do you actually think that I was being serious? :cigar: :cigar: :cigar:
     
  35. QueenJames

    QueenJames 2+ Year Member

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    Damn it Gunner I was trying to insinuate a riot so that we can get into it and get this useless stupid thread shut down :(

    Lolz

    I miss you boo. ;)
     
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  36. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    As I'm intensifying my board prep right now for D day in June, I just want to let the lurkers know to START UWORLD AS SOON AS SECOND YEAR.

    There're so much stuff being covered in Uworld that don't even show up in FA, Sketchy, and Kaplan. If you actually do the questions and annotate key stuff that are due to knowledge gaps starting in second year, you're on your way to beasting this exam.
     
  37. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 5+ Year Member

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    I have to agree, I started a semester out and I think I will be barely finished with the all the questions before dedicated.
     
  38. Eagles6389

    Eagles6389 2+ Year Member

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    I have to disagree. You should start Uworld when you have a solid foundation and have already covered most of the material in class.

    For example, what is the point of doing a Uworld question on leukemias in september of second year if your heme/onc class covering leukemias isn't until december? At that point, you're wasting the first pass of the uworld leukemia question since you have no base knowledge to reasonably answer it.

    I suppose you could start uworld at the start of second year by system if you already covered most of that said system already. Personally, I used USMLE-Rx, FA, Pathoma, and SketchyMicro/Pharm from January-March to make sure I had a solid base of knowledge before starting Uworld. I still had plenty of time to do Uworld from the end of march until the beginning June when I took the USMLE and got 1.5x pass of Uworld.

    I also had friends who started Uworld in January, hadn't reviewed First Aid, Pathoma, etc enough, and got absolutely destroyed by Uworld to the point where it demoralized them.
     
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  39. AlteredScale

    AlteredScale Administrator Moderator 2+ Year Member

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    A beautiful cubicle space.
    Reminder to keep this conversation civil and professional please.

    You will receive a thousand different answers to this question but to sum it up as best as I can: Taking USMLE is important in keeping most doors open and allows program directors from ACGME residencies to place you on a level playing field with applicants from MD-granting medical schools. This is especially important in specialties where DO's have been sparse such as rad onc, NSX, or CT surgery. Currently, the AOA is formatting a tool to be provided to all program directions to assist them in the interpretation of COMLEX scores.

    If you are not performing well in class and have a high risk of failing USMLE, then just taking COMLEX is safer. If you are planning to apply to primary care specialties like IM/FM/Peds or something like pathology or PM&R, you are fine with just taking COMLEX as many of these places have consistently taken DO's and are more familiar with understanding these scores. If you want to pursue these specialties at a more competitive university program (especially in IM) or to top programs in their respective specialties, then taking the USMLE is highly suggested as many of these programs will have requirements of having a USMLE score. If you do not, you may simply be screened out in order for PD's to "cut the fat" for interview invites.

    The official merger has no hard/written requirements on what a program should do for screening purposes based on board scores. That is up to each individual program. It is of best interest to utilize NRMP data such has the PD survey to assist in ones decision to take or not take the USMLE as a DO student. As more literature regarding the validity and correlation between USMLE and COMLEX is published, perhaps we may see these requirements change though results are mixed depending on the methodology.
     
  40. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    Just based on my personal experience here, I know Sketchy Micro like it's the back of my hand. However, I'm still getting like 20-30% of the quests wrong on Uworld Micro due to knowledge gap that just isn't covered in any resources out there. It's taking me about 2-3 hrs per 40 quests block to review all notes and commit all knowledge gaps to memorization. So, I personally think that it will be too late to start Uworld in March, unless you're personally fine with just getting the right answer instead of solidifying your knowledge.
     
  41. Spectreman

    Spectreman SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved

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    Hey can Uworld be used properly if you have all of the questions/answers from *ahem* another source? Everyone talks about making sure to do "random, timed" but I imagine you would need be using some sort of interface to do that. Are you suggesting hit Uworld by topic for your first go around beginning of second year then? Everyone I've heard speak about board prep emphasizes the importance of random, timed.
     
  42. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 5+ Year Member

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    Uworld as a learning tool > Uworld as an assessment tool

    I don't know what your friends expected but of course you will be destroyed early out. I got destroyed early out. However, I remember that one key thing "Uworld is a learning tool first and foremost." My scores have been slowing rising because I not only read the right and wrong answers but also the associated sections in first aid. This has made my going through the questions very slow, but from what I understand here you have to milk this tool for what its worth.

    If I did it in March, there is no way in hell I'd be finished with one pass of Uworld. I'm the type that likes to analyze the questions very deeply and read the associated section of first aid. So I'm totally for doing Uworld early as long as you have complete the system in your schools curriculum (yes I understand some schools don't go by systems).
     
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  43. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    Random isn't that important in my opinion bc you will have an idea of what the question is asking by looking at the answer choices. It's a part of test taking skills that you should get into a habit of doing before you even read the vignette of any questions.

    Yes, I would recommend doing Zanki for each block like Micro, Biochem, MSK, etc... and then hitting Uworld. Learning from Uworld is going to take a lot of time if you do it right in the beginning. If you want some practice with timed and random, you could use that mode on other Qbanks or your 2nd time through Uworld.

    The reason that I prefer to do it by system first so that I could categorically augment my Zanki decks with Uworld notes. Uworld quests don't need to be done random bc every question itself kind of throw multiple systems at you in the vignette.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  44. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 5+ Year Member

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    I like doing it at random, since a similar question can be thrown later and lead to a long term retention of the concept.
     
  45. Just so you guys know, when I prepped for step1, I felt that UW micro was somewhat insufficient. I used Rx to supplement micro.

    Carry on.
     
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  46. Money4MyHoney

    Money4MyHoney

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    In theory: as a DO yes, take the USMLE* especially if you want a competitive speciality

    Reality: no ones really knows what going to happen in 2020

    *Caveat: if you are struggling academically in the preclinical years and also happen to be the bottom 1/4 of your class, you need to be realistic. Chances of you getting a good USMLE score is slim and may end up hurting you if you get low pass. Upperclassmen will you tell don’t need to need to report a low/fail USMLE score but that is highly unethical...
     

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