DO for Canadians: 2011-2012

Applying to Med School? Get In Or Your Money Back
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
se20001984 said:
Wow i didnt recognize that

Changes alote for me to be honest....being an img

Now im forced to write
Comlex
Usmle
N canadian img exams.....thats more than as a int grad

Hummm...looks totally different now..
Click to expand...


The Canadian exam is a joke-- I talked to someone today at work who's brother did med school in australia and now doing a residency in Canada.
Members don't see this ad.
 
thumbz said:
Congrats on your acceptances folks.

And for those of you not currently in medical school to get the emails, SOMA, AOA, ACP and my school have been spamming me constantly with emails regarding what we can do about the GME cuts. So I assure you every medical student out there knows about it and is doing something about it to try and prevent it. Apparently the committee meets in a couple weeks, so I suppose it'll all become clear as mud then.

For those who don't know (since I always hate acronyms I don't know)
SOMA: Student Osteopathic Med Association
AOA: American Osteo Association
ACP: American College of Physicians
GME: Graduate Med Education
Click to expand...

Good to know!!!
 
drgioiadds said:
The Canadian exam is a joke-- I talked to someone today at work who's brother did med school in australia and now doing a residency in Canada.
Click to expand...

Im reading..man its a mess!! here is my analysis

MCCQE 1 and 2 can be replaced in ON by the Comex and/or usmle:

Alternatives to the Medical Council of Canada Examinations Parts 1 and 2

Applicants who are not licentiates of the Medical Council of Canada but who have successfully completed one of the following examinations:
  1. USMLE Steps 1, 2 and 3. Step 2 Clinical Skills (CS) is required if Step 2 was taken after June 12, 2004.
  2. ECFMG certification plus USMLE Step 3. Applies to international medical school graduates who passed USMLE Step 2 Clinical Skills Assessment (CSA) between July 1, 1998 to June 14, 2004.
  3. FLEX component 1 and component 2 successfully completed (score of 75 on each component) between January 1, 1992 and December 31, 1994.
  4. NBME Part 1, 2 and 3, successfully completed between January 1, 1992 and December 31, 1994.
  5. The Comprehensive Osteopathic Licensing Examination (COMLEX-USA) Levels 1, 2 and 3. COMLEX-USA Level 2 Performance Evaluation (PE) component is required if Level 2 was completed after September 2004. (Applies to graduates of osteopathic schools accredited by the American Osteopathic Association.)

We are stream 3 in ontario (with no obvious advantages as a DO):

All students outside canada, MUST take the MCCE to qualify for the MCCQE

MCC consideres DO as IMG


There is not indication of 1st itineration as a DO:

The CaRMS Match is run in two iterations. To be eligible for participation in the first iteration, you must be either a medical student, or a graduate having obtained or in the process of obtaining a medical degree by July 1 of the match year from:
  • A Liaison Committee on Medical Education / Committee on Accreditation on Canadian Medical Schools (LCME/CACMS) accredited school
  • A school of osteopathic medicine
  • An international medical school listed with the International Medical Education Directory (IMED), published by the Foundation for the Advancement of International Medical Education and Research (FAIMER)
http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_prov_e.shtml

This is a confusing mess of ****..as it seems the MCC and Carms dont communicate with each other:


The CaRMS match at Ontario medical schools will be open to both:
  • CMGs/USMGs: Graduates of LCME/CACMS accredited schools or a school of osteopathic medicine who are Canadian Citizens/Permanent Residents. Proof of citizenship must be provided by submitting one of the following verifications to CaRMS by the Rank Order List deadline. (Photocopies acceptable). No other forms of verification acceptable:
    1. Notarized/certified photocopy of Birth Certificate issued by an authority in Canada with any photo ID, or
    2. Notarized/certified photocopy of Canadian Passport, or
    3. Notarized/certified photocopy of Canadian citizenship certificate, Record of Landing; or
    4. Notarized/certified photocopy of Permanent Resident Card/Canadian Citizen Card - copies of both sides of card must be provided and legible.
    IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR USMGs - Please Note: As of February 2010, USMGs must complete the Medical Council of Canada Qualifying Examinations Parts 1 and 2 (MCCQE 1 & 2) order to qualify for an Independent Practice certificate in Ontario. USMLE Steps 1, 2 and 3 ARE considered acceptable alternatives to the MCCQE 1 & 2 for purposes of applying for residency training in Ontario but will mean that the candidate cannot obtain an Independent Practice certificate from the CPSO directly after residency and RCPSC/CFPC certification. Rather, they will be required to apply for a restricted certificate of registration to practice medicine in Ontario, practice with a mentor/supervisor for at least one year, and successfully complete an assessment before obtaining an Independent Practice certificate. The CPSO policy on Acceptable Qualifying Exams can be reviewed at http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=1640

    and
  • IMGs: International Medical Graduates (IMG) where the medical degree is from an international medical school listed with the International Medical Education Directory (IMED), published by the Foundation for the Advancement of International Medical Education and Research (FAIMER). IMGs who match will be required to complete a return of service in Ontario (please see below).
First Iteration: There will be two parallel streams - Canadian Medical Graduate (CMG) and International Medical Graduate (IMG), with designated positions for each stream. There will be no crossovers or transfers between the two streams.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
My queestion is..why is MCC different than Carms? arnt they the same branch ??

and #2...this chart...
Summary of intake criteria for Osteopathic School Graduates

Newfoundland
and Labrador
Not Eligible​
Nova Scotia
Not Eligible​
Quebec
Not Eligible​
Ontario*
Eligible
Manitoba
Not Eligible​
Saskatchewan
Not Eligible​
Alberta
Second Iteration**​
British
Columbia
First Iteration​



Why is ontario only eligible...when below its 1st??

or is this a recent policy that hasnt been a law yet??
 
What's the GPA scale for DO schools? As in... what percentage marks correspond to which gpa range.
 
druggeek said:
What's the GPA scale for DO schools? As in... what percentage marks correspond to which gpa range.
Click to expand...
Your school needs to be on a 4.0 scale or else you should use Western Eval service. Basically an A = 4, B =3, C=2 D=1 Basically it costs $200 for the WES to make that official.
 
drgioiadds said:
Your school needs to be on a 4.0 scale or else you should use Western Eval service. Basically an A = 4, B =3, C=2 D=1 Basically it costs $200 for the WES to make that official.
Click to expand...
My school's on a 4.3 scale... as in 85-89 = 4.0 , 90+ = 4.3, 80-84 = 3.7 , so everything else being standard except the 90+ = 4.3.

How do you think that'll go down? And are the As and Bs based on the percentages given by my school? Or based on equivalent percentages in the US? Cause I think that in the US in the 80s... that's still a B. :scared:
 
druggeek said:
My school's on a 4.3 scale... as in 85-89 = 4.0 , 90+ = 4.3, 80-84 = 3.7 , so everything else being standard except the 90+ = 4.3.

How do you think that'll go down? And are the As and Bs based on the percentages given by my school? Or based on equivalent percentages in the US? Cause I think that in the US in the 80s... that's still a B. :scared:
Click to expand...

I went to a 4.33 school as well. All your A+ (4.33) will become A (4.0). everything else stays the same.
 
It's been far too quiet in here. How is our Canadian contingent doing this cycle?
I was just accepted to AZCOM, and I am currently waitlisted at MSUCOM for 2012.

Best of luck! Admissions at various schools have told me that this year is a BIG year for Canadians. The number of Canadian applicants (and acceptances) is at an all-time high. But then again, so is the total number of DO applicants.
 
Just found out that I got accepted to Touro and AZCOM! :)))
 
Members don't see this ad :)
congratz to both of you getting accepted to azcom and touro! what are your top choices?
 
Thanks!! :)

I dont know yet.....I'm still waiting to hear from KCUMB (I interviewed there last week, and felt that interview went really well, but who knows...). I loved KCUMB, its a very good school and I really liked the atmosphere there. AZCOM seemed like a great school as well, but I was much more impressed with KCUMB. Touro was my first interview, and I enjoyed my visit there but AZCOM and KCUMB are definately more established. With that said, I would love to live in NYC, and its the closest out of the three to Toronto. I am not sure whether I can see myself living in KC (if I got accepted that is), and what I don't like about AZCOM is that I would have to show them I have 300 grand in my bank account.

Any input? Would choosing Touro over AZCOM or KCUMB be a really unwise decision?
 
Honestly, I'd go to the school where its easiest to get the I20. All 3 schools are good. Didn't really like KCUMB (doesn't even matter that I was rejected post interview--my last answer probably triggered the rejection) I wouldn't have chose this school. The campus seemed to isolated.
 
My top choice was MSUCOM, but I loved AZCOM when I went for my interview. I have been high waitlisted for 2012 at MSUCOM and recently been accepted to AZCOM.
If I were to come off the waitlist at MSUCOM, id have a tough decision to make. MSU is closer to home and has a Canadian initiative for DOs. However, they just changed their curriculum to systems based, and I would be concerned about being a guinea pig for the new curriculum.
Any thoughts are welcome.
 
They didn't really change the curriculum. They just changed the order to give you time to study for boards.
 
VespaDO4life said:
They didn't really change the curriculum. They just changed the order to give you time to study for boards.
Click to expand...

This is what I thought as well. From the "orientation" it seemed like the courses were rearranged to balance out 1st and 2nd year leaving the 2nd summer to study for comlex.
 
drgioiadds said:
This is what I thought as well. From the "orientation" it seemed like the courses were rearranged to balance out 1st and 2nd year leaving the 2nd summer to study for comlex.
Click to expand...

Hmmm glad I brought this up. I was not aware of this, so this will give me more to think about.
I have one month to put down the deposit for AZCOM. I dont think in the coming month that the waitlist at MSUCOM will move much, but I hope I am wrong.
I do want to start school in 2012, so I would not decline AZCOM and wait for my guarantied spot at MSUCOM for 2013. But again, things I need to think about. It's too bad MSU doesnt share information about the waitlist because I would like to know how far down I am in order to gauge the chances of being called off the list for this cycle.
 
OVO said:
Hmmm glad I brought this up. I was not aware of this, so this will give me more to think about.
I have one month to put down the deposit for AZCOM. I dont think in the coming month that the waitlist at MSUCOM will move much, but I hope I am wrong.
I do want to start school in 2012, so I would not decline AZCOM and wait for my guarantied spot at MSUCOM for 2013. But again, things I need to think about. It's too bad MSU doesnt share information about the waitlist because I would like to know how far down I am in order to gauge the chances of being called off the list for this cycle.
Click to expand...

I am imagine you will get acceptance off the waitlist as I know of 4 who did not accept the MSU offer. Also, as Canadians get into Canadian schools, I'm sure more spots will open up. I do know that Canadians were a separate applicant pool--so you are not on a waitlist with OOS or Michigan residents.
 
Thanks Mash!!! Had it not been for your informative and encouraging post on premed101, I might have never discovered the DO route to medicine (I wanted to post this message on premed101, but it's been down for the past few days.....) I appreciate all you the information you have shared and all the times you have helped answer questions! :) I wish you lots of success in your future career as a physician!!

Thanks again!!
 
Just got off the waitlist for MSU!!! oh boy.....This makes my decision that much tougher.....
 
Accepted into MSUCOM, cancelled my scheduled interviews at both NOVA and AZCOM. Congrad to the fellas who are accepted. Stay positive for those who are still waiting.

Cheers, MSUCOMers ....
 
Last edited:
limoncello said:
Hello everyone, I need your advice for those if you who have applied to WesternU. I received an email from the school asking me to provide official documentations to verify that my organic inorganic and physics courses included both lab and lecture components (Since these courses are coming from Canada). The lab component is not specified on my transcript. So what kind of official documentations can I provide? Has any of you had the same issue?
Click to expand...

I have taken a physics course at my university which has a course title "physical science". The course name is a little misleading and really gave me a trouble when I sent the evaluation to AACOMAS. I was told by AACOMAS that course is not a physics course at all. I sent the course description and the link to the course description web site to them but the AACOMAS staffs did not accept my explanation. Finally I went to see the Dean and Chairman at my physics department and had them write an official letter to AACOMAS to explain the situation. Then I am finally OK.

Also Western University told me the recommendation letter written by my computer science professor is not valid because in their opinion computer science is actually math, not a science. And they don't accept a math professor's recommendation. I think it is really ridiculous and am a little upset with the tone so I just totally gave up my application to Western University.
 
SkyRider said:
I have taken a physics course at my university which has a course title "physical science". The course name is a little misleading and really gave me a trouble when I sent the evaluation to AACOMAS. I was told by AACOMAS that course is not a physics course at all. I sent the course description and the link to the course description web site to them but the AACOMAS staffs did not accept my explanation. Finally I went to see the Dean and Chairman at my physics department and had them write an official letter to AACOMAS to explain the situation. Then I am finally OK.

Also Western University told me the recommendation letter written by my computer science professor is not valid because in their opinion computer science is actually math, not a science. And they don't accept a math professor's recommendation. I think it is really ridiculous and am a little upset with the tone so I just totally gave up my application to Western University.
Click to expand...

I had the same experience with Western. They invited me for an interview in september, then emailed me that I was deficient in credits (which is ridiculous). I cancelled and withdrew when I got the MSU offer. Then I got another letter from Western asking why I withdrew, another letter saying I was deficient and then an email reminding me of my interview.:eek:
 
drgioiadds said:
I had the same experience with Western. They invited me for an interview in september, then emailed me that I was deficient in credits (which is ridiculous). I cancelled and withdrew when I got the MSU offer. Then I got another letter from Western asking why I withdrew, another letter saying I was deficient and then an email reminding me of my interview.:eek:
Click to expand...

You should have responded and told them that you arent deficient and the fact that they think you are short credits is ridiculous. Western has a problem with the credit thing and physics.....they really need to work on that

As I said a while ago on here, I got accepted and literally ignored 3-4 emails (maybe more) about the credits....and it eventually went away. This was after I tried to prove my credits the first time with links to UBCs credit descriptions, as well as the courses credit break down.....and that wasnt good enough apparently:mad:
 
se20001984 said:
My queestion is..why is MCC different than Carms? arnt they the same branch ??

and #2...this chart...
Summary of intake criteria for Osteopathic School Graduates

Newfoundland
and Labrador
Not Eligible​
Nova Scotia
Not Eligible​
Quebec
Not Eligible​
Ontario*
Eligible
Manitoba
Not Eligible​
Saskatchewan
Not Eligible​
Alberta
Second Iteration**​
British
Columbia
First Iteration​



Why is ontario only eligible...when below its 1st??

or is this a recent policy that hasnt been a law yet??
Click to expand...

Carms is just a not-for-profit residency matching service and is not associated with MCC in any way. It's just the way it is. There is simply no reason for it. MCC is operating at the national level. However the detailed and specific policies are up to each individual province. MCC may comment and make suggestions to provincial policies but cannot directly interfere with provincial policy making. Carms doesn't make any policies regarding matching eligibility of MD/DO/IMG. It simply applies the rules made by each province.

In Ontario, "eligible" means DOs are eligible for both 1st and 2nd iterations as well as scramble matching. In BC, DOs may only match in the 1st iteration. If not successful in the 1st round, the DO candidates will simply be knocked out. In Alberta, DOs can only pick up the "leftover" positions from the 1st iteration, if not successful in the 2nd round, the candidates will be knocked out. This is the most recently policies made by the individual province.

In my opinion, in term of the medical system policies, Canadian governments have always been very slow-moving, very close-minded and extremely conservative. Remember 10 years ago, Doctor of Osteopathic medicine from USA was not even considered equivalent to Doctor of Medicine by Canadian policy makers even if the 3rd world Bachelor of Medicine degree had already been recognized as equivalent to MD here. AOA and COA have been talking to Canadian policy makers to push them to realize the high qualities of American trained DOs. The progress has been made. However there are still many things that need our efforts.

As for the policies regarding American trained DOs, there always have been some discrepencies and differences among Canadian provinces. Some policies are obviously wierd in my opinion. For example, in Manitoba, American licensed physicians (DO and MD) can directly start practice as full-privileged physicians there without taking Canadian board exams at all. However American DO graduates are not allowed to participate in residency matching in Manitoba. See my point ?? Nowadays, political correctly speaking, DO degree is considered equivalent to MD in all Canadian provinces. But how can they be indeed equivalent if American trained DOs are even not allowed to match in some provinces and even the 3rd world Bachelor of Medicine degree holders are allowed to match in all Canadian provinces ??? (don't get me wrong, some BMed graduates from 3rd world are indeed very talented. Here I am simply talking about the general medical education qualities and standards)

See my logic here ??? Ridiculous ? Yes. The policies Make sense ? No. People can be ignorant. People can be close-minded. As future DOs, we have to work together and work hard to show our very high qualities to improve the open-mindedness of our health policies and the system as a whole. :)
 
Last edited:
sky, i agree with all your points...

very closed minded...

its simply a monoply...with no interest in patient health

iam forever grateful for being accepted to an american school...i have 0 interested in comming back to a country that doesnt want me
 
Se20001984, I feel the same way. It's ironic that I will be a Cdn citizen next week and then I have to move away and may not return at all.
 
Does anyone know if we're close to getting AOA residencies approved by Canada so that we can do AOA residencies and come back to Canada as well?
 
bhavik said:
Does anyone know if we're close to getting AOA residencies approved by Canada so that we can do AOA residencies and come back to Canada as well?
Click to expand...

At the rate we are going - 10 - 20 years away probably. We haven't even gotten the MCCEE requirements waived yet. The main problem I think is that there's too few Canadiand DOs in Canada - this is the basic problem that's been holding the profession back for decades. This trend is beginning to reverse this year, so hopefully, within the next 6 - 10 years, with the first track of MSU Canadians graduating from their residencies, our ranks will finally be bolstered enough to have a heavier impact on policies/policies.

One of the problems is the medical registrars of certain provinces are dinosaurs.. I've even heard the term "pre-alzheimer's" being used to describe an individual lol... All we have now are a few Canadian DOs lobbying for our interests in Canada, their numbers are very limited. What we need is a new generation of Canadian DOs to write/contact these provincial registrars to let them know that a new generation has arrived, this is why COMSA is here :)
 
Last edited:
mashmetoo said:
At the rate we are going - 10 - 20 years away probably. We haven't even gotten the MCCEE requirements waived yet. The main problem I think is that there's too few Canadiand DOs in Canada - this is the basic problem that's been holding the profession back for decades. This trend is beginning to reverse this year, so hopefully, within the next 6 - 10 years, with the first track of MSU Canadians graduating from their residencies, our ranks will finally be bolstered enough to have a heavier impact on policies/policies.

One of the problems is the medical registrars of certain provinces are dinosaurs.. I've even heard the term "pre-alzheimer's" being used to describe an individual lol... All we have now are a few Canadian DOs lobbying for our interests in Canada, their numbers are very limited. What we need is a new generation of Canadian DOs to write/contact these provincial registrars to let them know that a new generation has arrived, this is why COMSA is here :)
Click to expand...

Hopefully you guys get the job done before we match, although from the sound of things that is highly unlikely. What bothers me is that some ACGME residencies are almost out of the reach of DOs, I'd like to have the freedom to choose from the whole spectrum rather than just certain fields.
 
bhavik said:
Hopefully you guys get the job done before we match, although from the sound of things that is highly unlikely. What bothers me is that some ACGME residencies are almost out of the reach of DOs, I'd like to have the freedom to choose from the whole spectrum rather than just certain fields.
Click to expand...

I think everyone needs to realize that there will always be discrimination between DO's and MD's. I did a lot of research before applying to DO school and realized it is a good option for primary care. I'm sure a lot of DO's match specialties, but if I wanted to be a plastic surgeon, I would have retook the MCAT and applied to Canadian MD schools.
 
drgioiadds said:
I think everyone needs to realize that there will always be discrimination between DO's and MD's. I did a lot of research before applying to DO school and realized it is a good option for primary care. I'm sure a lot of DO's match specialties, but if I wanted to be a plastic surgeon, I would have retook the MCAT and applied to Canadian MD schools.
Click to expand...

OR, get US citizenship, and get into a DO plastic surgery residency lol - less competition. Not being a US citizenship hinders you more than anything in this case, I would think. There's a tv show called "Dr. 90210" that chronicles the life of a DO plastic surgeon :)
 
you can do the rez in canada itself and not worry about this or that
 
se20001984 said:
you can do the rez in canada itself and not worry about this or that
Click to expand...

Right now, it's nearly impossible for a DO to match into the competitive fields through CaRMS. Even though DOs receive first-round iteration in a number of provinces, CMGs will be taken first. It's already hard enough for CMGs to match into the competitive fields.
 
At the moment, what are the chances of AOA residencies sponsoring H1B visas (since J1 would be useless in this case)?
 
bhavik said:
At the moment, what are the chances of AOA residencies sponsoring H1B visas (since J1 would be useless in this case)?
Click to expand...

Slim to none. You must understand that EVEN IF we are able to get AOA recognition in Canada 10, 20 years in the future, that's only HALF the problem. The other half is that AOA residencies "do not" sponsor visas (of any kind) for the most part. The vast majority will not have any experience with visa sponsorship, and I have personally been told by an AOA residency director to "try for ACGME residencies".

9 times out 10, an AOA residency will not sponsor a visa. Assuming you luck out and hit that 1/10 chance and find an AOA residency that will sponsor you a H1B or J1, you'll still up with a "useless" residency as it's not recognized in Canada.
 
mashmetoo said:
Slim to none. You must understand that EVEN IF we are able to get AOA recognition in Canada 10, 20 years in the future, that's only HALF the problem. The other half is that AOA residencies "do not" sponsor visas (of any kind) for the most part. The vast majority will not have any experience with visa sponsorship, and I have personally been told by an AOA residency director to "try for ACGME residencies".

9 times out 10, an AOA residency will not sponsor a visa. Assuming you luck out and hit that 1/10 chance and find an AOA residency that will sponsor you a H1B or J1, you'll still up with a "useless" residency as it's not recognized in Canada.
Click to expand...

Oh my. Primary care ACGME it is then!
 
Aside from the student line of credit from a major bank and a government loan, what other ways are out there to finance the study?
 
marry an American, get a green card, and apply for scholarships :p
 
How about the government student loans, do they not recognize osteopathic medical schools?
 
I believe that OSAP (in Ontario) will only allow you to borrow about 8000/9000 a year to pay for education outside of Canada. (I'm not exactly sure about the amount, but I know that it is very small compared to the overall cost of school/living expenses)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

M
Thread for Canadians with IIs at USDO
Replies
9
Views
1K
math-wizo
M
M
Any Canadians at WCUCOM I can talk to?
Replies
0
Views
434
math-wizo
M
H
Canadian DO Applicant
Replies
4
Views
1K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
H
Too late to apply with these stats? *canadian
Replies
5
Views
1K
hopefulmed97
H
P
Canadian DO Applicant Are my stats good enough?
Replies
1
Views
1K
Faha
F
Top