DO: name change?

gioia

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 11, 2003
556
0
TARDIS
  1. Fellow [Any Field]
    For what it's worth, I sent an e-mail to the AOA and asked about the 'rumor' of changing the title of DO to more accurately define the profession (some former threads also address this idea).

    This was Michael Campea's response:

    "Thank you for contacting the AOA. Your feedback helps AOA leadership and staff gain a better perspective of students' perceptions, concerns, and questions regarding the profession.

    AOA policies regarding terminology are reviewed by the AOA's House of Delegates on a regular basis to ensure they represent the overall attitudes and reflect the needs of D.O.s and students as accurately as possible.

    However, despite this process, there are many D.O.s and osteopathic students who prefer different terminology or would like to see new terminology created.

    It is important that D.O.s and students seeking changes in terminology inform the AOA, as well as their local osteopathic
    societies, of their suggestions. The AOA depends on feedback to better understand D.O. and student needs.

    We encourage you to urge your classmates to share their
    concerns with the AOA as well."
     

    Dr JPH

    Membership Revoked
    Removed
    10+ Year Member
    15+ Year Member
    Feb 4, 2000
    5,910
    36
    www.pcom.edu
    1. Resident [Any Field]
      Interesting post.

      I know it was not your intent to start another war over this, so I don't mean any negativities towards you when I say that I wish this issue would just DIE.

      D.O., in my very humble opinion, describes our profession perfectly.

      Now we just need to educate people on what Osteopathy is.

      Those who want to change the name often fit into one of the following categories: (and I can just imagine the sh!t I am going to get for this...)

      1. They feel another title will earn them more respect
      2. They don't want to take the time to educate people about osteopathy
      3. They just like to complain
      4. They wish they went to M.D. school

      Just my thoughts.
       

      PACtoDOC

      1K Member
      7+ Year Member
      15+ Year Member
      Aug 2, 2002
      1,057
      3
        Hey JP,

        Don't get me wrong, I chose to be a DO because I felt it would better prepare me to be a primary care physician. However, I do honestly believe that our leadership has failed miserably to promote what we do to the mainstream. I mean come on, how can a profession that is over 100 years old be unrecognizable to 90% of the population without admitting a marketing strategy has failed!!????? I mean how much can it cost to buyt a nationwide TV add explaining what we do and run it for a year? I would pay double dues for the year if they gave me the option!! Unfortunately in this country the two little letters MD are completely understood and symbolize doctorss in general. It probably is time to just admit that our two letters DO are not understood and probably never will be. I really don't mind educating patients, but it starts to get old quick. Trust me, coming from a PA, I had to deal with this daily for years. Andit really stinks. But when you provide great care your patients begin to be the ones to do the educating for you. I think it would make more sense to lobby AMA to allow us to be granted the DO degree but use the title MD-O in all states. It takes nothing alway from us and is very representative of what our degree is. I mean allopaths reverse the order of their degree letters as well to turn "Doctor of Medicine" into MD, so sense our degree now says "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine", why not use MD-O. It just makes sense to me, and I can't imagine the allopaths would give a crap. To the leaders of the AMA it would just mean that they were getting closer to having control over our schools, which will come one day anyway when AOA can no longer afford to credential schools where most grads go into allopathic programs. I mean our match list this year only had 25% of our graduating class even in the AOA match. To me it makes best sense to actually credential AOA schools under the LCME as well as the AOA and allow our grads to use both degrees. DO schools could easily get credentialed by them and then I think this would actually attract more people into Osteopathy who don't come based on fear of having the DO initials. I am perfectly happy though to be headed toward owning the DO initials and I know my patient care will be what educates my patient anyway.
         
        About the Ads

        Adapt

        2K Member
        7+ Year Member
        15+ Year Member
        Mar 19, 2003
        2,048
        6
          Originally posted by PACtoDOC
          Hey JP,

          Don't get me wrong, I chose to be a DO because I felt it would better prepare me to be a primary care physician. However, I do honestly believe that our leadership has failed miserably to promote what we do to the mainstream. I mean come on, how can a profession that is over 100 years old be unrecognizable to 90% of the population without admitting a marketing strategy has failed!!????? I mean how much can it cost to buyt a nationwide TV add explaining what we do and run it for a year? I would pay double dues for the year if they gave me the option!! Unfortunately in this country the two little letters MD are completely understood and symbolize doctorss in general. It probably is time to just admit that our two letters DO are not understood and probably never will be. I really don't mind educating patients, but it starts to get old quick. Trust me, coming from a PA, I had to deal with this daily for years. Andit really stinks. But when you provide great care your patients begin to be the ones to do the educating for you. I think it would make more sense to lobby AMA to allow us to be granted the DO degree but use the title MD-O in all states. It takes nothing alway from us and is very representative of what our degree is. I mean allopaths reverse the order of their degree letters as well to turn "Doctor of Medicine" into MD, so sense our degree now says "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine", why not use MD-O. It just makes sense to me, and I can't imagine the allopaths would give a crap. To the leaders of the AMA it would just mean that they were getting closer to having control over our schools, which will come one day anyway when AOA can no longer afford to credential schools where most grads go into allopathic programs. I mean our match list this year only had 25% of our graduating class even in the AOA match. To me it makes best sense to actually credential AOA schools under the LCME as well as the AOA and allow our grads to use both degrees. DO schools could easily get credentialed by them and then I think this would actually attract more people into Osteopathy who don't come based on fear of having the DO initials. I am perfectly happy though to be headed toward owning the DO initials and I know my patient care will be what educates my patient anyway.
          I concur. There should be ads on TV describing what DOs are and the AOA has not done a good job of advertising.

          The idea of MD-O is interesting. However, people will still ask what an MD-O is anyway so I don't see how that avoids the problem of patient recognition.

          The problem in question is that patients do not recognize what DOs are and the public is uneducated about that. To combat this, the AOA has three options.

          1. The AOA does a much better job of advertising to the point where most of the public knows what DOs are.
          2. The AOA does nothing and continues to allow DOs themselves explain what DOs are to their patients.
          3. Osteopathic schools give the MD degree instead of the DO degree. California tried this already and although it failed, it seems like a viable option.

          Obviously, option 2 is what is occuring right now and it is not working. Option 1 sounds appealing but it doesn't seem like it will happen.

          Option 3 is the best solution for those that really want the problem to go away. As PACtoDOC said, the way things are looking, AOA and AMA will merge anyway. Soon I do believe this option may become a reality.
           

          bgreet

          Dopefish Lives!
          7+ Year Member
          15+ Year Member
          Jun 14, 2003
          799
          0
          37
          NY, NY
            When did all of this come about? Is MD-O the proposed name change? Finally my dad can stop making fun of me for wanting to become a (how he says it), a "due" or "doh". At least MD-O is a hard sequence of letters to attempt to orally dictate.
             

            stoic

            "Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted"
            15+ Year Member
            Nov 4, 2000
            7,635
            356
            sodom, south georgia
              What exactly do they want to change the name to?

              Here are some ideas off the top of my head:

              O.M.D. (osteopathic medical doctor)

              D.M.O (doctor of medicine and osteopathy)

              D.M.W. (doctor of medicine and wellness)

              hmm.. those are the only ones I can think of. Any other idea's out there?


              For the record, I agree that Doctor of Osteopathy aptly describes this form of medicine and that the real issue should be helping those unfamiliar with the concept learn about it.
               

              YoungFaithful

              Senior Member
              7+ Year Member
              15+ Year Member
              Sep 29, 2003
              187
              4
                I am undoubtedly looking forward to entering the profession this fall at KCOM or MSUCOM, but I feel a slight hesitation due to the speck of uncertainty present in the DO degree.

                Can someone remind me why I am going DO when I could get an established degree (MD) and do an OMT fellow and be recognized around the world?

                Thanks,
                YF
                 

                luckystar

                pooped
                7+ Year Member
                15+ Year Member
                Jul 23, 2002
                2,288
                1
                Illinois
                www.myspace.com
                1. Resident [Any Field]
                  Originally posted by JPHazelton
                  Interesting post.

                  I know it was not your intent to start another war over this, so I don't mean any negativities towards you when I say that I wish this issue would just DIE.

                  D.O., in my very humble opinion, describes our profession perfectly.

                  Now we just need to educate people on what Osteopathy is.

                  Those who want to change the name often fit into one of the following categories: (and I can just imagine the sh!t I am going to get for this...)

                  1. They feel another title will earn them more respect
                  2. They don't want to take the time to educate people about osteopathy
                  3. They just like to complain
                  4. They wish they went to M.D. school

                  Just my thoughts.

                  Totally agree. :)
                   

                  PACtoDOC

                  1K Member
                  7+ Year Member
                  15+ Year Member
                  Aug 2, 2002
                  1,057
                  3
                    Well lets try it this way. Is there anyone on this forum that can truly say they believe that the AOA has done a decent job promoting our profession. Even as a PA our national organization has done a better job on less of a budget. Its pretty rare for a person to not know what a physician assistant is by either title or abbreviation nowadays. 10 years ago people thought I was a production assistant!! Its almost like the AOA does not want to have DO's better understood, or perhaps they cut some deal with the AMA decades ago to be non-aggressive in their campaign in order for the AMA to back off for a few decades and give up ground. This thing could have more conspiracy than the JFK saga. :idea:
                     

                    luckystar

                    pooped
                    7+ Year Member
                    15+ Year Member
                    Jul 23, 2002
                    2,288
                    1
                    Illinois
                    www.myspace.com
                    1. Resident [Any Field]
                      Originally posted by PACtoDOC
                      Well lets try it this way. Is there anyone on this forum that can truly say they believe that the AOA has done a decent job promoting our profession. Even as a PA our national organization has done a better job on less of a budget. Its pretty rare for a person to not know what a physician assistant is by either title or abbreviation nowadays. 10 years ago people thought I was a production assistant!! Its almost like the AOA does not want to have DO's better understood, or perhaps they cut some deal with the AMA decades ago to be non-aggressive in their campaign in order for the AMA to back off for a few decades and give up ground. This thing could have more conspiracy than the JFK saga. :idea:

                      :laugh: That's actually a pretty good explanation!
                       

                      PainDr

                      Full Member
                      7+ Year Member
                      15+ Year Member
                      Sep 13, 2003
                      470
                      1
                        The AOA will NEVER change our title for one simple reason...there's no need to. The only people who care about this are premeds and med students. We have no lack of patients or respect from MDs.

                        The best way to educate people is to provide them with excellant medical care. There have been several instances when patients ask me where I went to med school (usually when we're done, while I'm writing scripts and just making small talk). The response is sometimes positive and sometimes surprised but never negative. The surprised patients usually either didn't know what a DO was or had a negative, ie., uninformed opinion. They NEVER care. All they care about is that it takes them MONTHS to get into my clinic!:D
                         
                        About the Ads

                        sophiejane

                        Exhausted
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        7+ Year Member
                        15+ Year Member
                        Sep 18, 2003
                        2,778
                        9
                        Waco, TX
                        1. Resident [Any Field]
                          Thanks, Pain Dr. Yours is the only response worth taking seriously, in my opinion, because you are actually a practicing physician. Sometimes I think medical students really need some reality checks from the people out in the trenches every day.
                           

                          PACtoDOC

                          1K Member
                          7+ Year Member
                          15+ Year Member
                          Aug 2, 2002
                          1,057
                          3
                            PainDR. is obvioiusly a specialist, and probably in a city. Being a DO in a situation like this is completely different than being a DO in primary care. And even though Sj wants to stroke PainDr's ego, she is a bit condescending to state that his opinion is the only relevant one here. Some of us have also been in the trenches, and really don't appreciate her wording there.

                            Specialists have a direct funnel of patients coming to them, usually because they are the only one provider who can get them in, or because their PCP sent them. Often people go see a DO specialist and never knew they saw a DO. In primary care, where most people PICK their PCP out of the insurance book, it may be confusing to them to see the initials DO after a name. Lack of education in this area by the AOA is something that cannot be taken lightly. I was a partner in a practice that had DO's and MD's, and I worked with and for all of them. I saw everyday that patients truly just did not understand what DO's were, and it was somewhat frustrating for them. I don't think it kept them from being successful because their practice eventually built up based on their performance and reputation.

                            But thanks SJ for your ever so diverse opinion. Good to hear such from someone who has never been in the trenches.
                             

                            Su4n2

                            Senior Member
                            7+ Year Member
                            15+ Year Member
                            Jul 24, 2002
                            445
                            3
                              as someone who had to explain the DO degree for the nth time today....

                              here's a question for u: how come evryone knows what a chiropracror is, physical therapist , etc but noone knows what a DO is. I live in Brooklyn with hundreds of practices owned by DO's- i see it all around me, but it doesn't make a difference. people still have no clue. i hate the AOA. instead of openng more schools, should focus on establishing our degree and assuring that we have adequate training. it's sad that everyone knows about chiros but not DO's.
                               

                              Adapt

                              2K Member
                              7+ Year Member
                              15+ Year Member
                              Mar 19, 2003
                              2,048
                              6
                                Originally posted by PACtoDOC
                                And even though Sj wants to stroke PainDr's ego, she is a bit condescending to state that his opinion is the only relevant one here. Some of us have also been in the trenches, and really don't appreciate her wording there.
                                I agree. Even though I haven't been "in the trenches," I remember sophiejane used to put down my opinion because I'm just a premed student even though she's just a first year DO student.

                                Anyways, PACtoDOC I certainly respect your opinion because much of what you say does make sense and you have seen it as a PA.

                                I remember one time when one of my relatives was talking about DOs. She said that she had to choose from a list of family physicians from a paper that her insurance company had her choose. She automatically skipped all the DOs because she didn't know what they were and looked only at the MDs.

                                I wouldn't be surprised if this happens a lot and DOs are losing out on business just because of the letters behind their name.
                                 

                                DocWagner

                                Senior Member
                                7+ Year Member
                                15+ Year Member
                                Aug 1, 2002
                                520
                                8
                                1. Attending Physician
                                  What is interesting is that it was I who made this same argument while in med school...the above post might as well have had my name on it 4 years ago.
                                  Today, it really doesn't matter to me...while name recognition would be a plus, people are people and they simply forget or want it explained to them AGAIN. The general public has a hard time understanding that DO=MD primarily because there are SOOO many MD's compared to the relatively few DO's.

                                  I really think there is an active change coming about. 1. mass communication via the internet has raised public awareness 2. the greater amount of DO's in allopathic residencies has increased the general publics incidental exposure to DO's ("oh Dr. Jones, I didn't know you are a DO"), 3. the greater amount of DO's on staff at large institutions vs. solely osteopathic hospitals also increases exposure.
                                  I am in a big DO state, yet the generally thought by the public is that DO's ONLY practice in DO hospitals...that view is going out the windows as DO's in allopathic hospitals and allopathic residencies simply increase year after year. People often times connected DO's to the "second rate" hospitals (their words not mine), today DO's are found in every university setting in the nation (not a scientific poll, but rather an educated guess).

                                  Change and public perception is slow...but it is happening.
                                   

                                  Adapt

                                  2K Member
                                  7+ Year Member
                                  15+ Year Member
                                  Mar 19, 2003
                                  2,048
                                  6
                                    Originally posted by DocWagner
                                    I really think there is an active change coming about. 1. mass communication via the internet has raised public awareness 2. the greater amount of DO's in allopathic residencies has increased the general publics incidental exposure to DO's ("oh Dr. Jones, I didn't know you are a DO"), 3. the greater amount of DO's on staff at large institutions vs. solely osteopathic hospitals also increases exposure.
                                    I am in a big DO state, yet the generally thought by the public is that DO's ONLY practice in DO hospitals...that view is going out the windows as DO's in allopathic hospitals and allopathic residencies simply increase year after year. People often times connected DO's to the "second rate" hospitals (their words not mine), today DO's are found in every university setting in the nation (not a scientific poll, but rather an educated guess).

                                    Change and public perception is slow...but it is happening.
                                    We can only hope. So when do you think the number of people who know what a DO is will raise from 1 out 10 to 8 out of 10? I'm hoping in at least 20 years when I'll be in the middle of practice.
                                     

                                    sophiejane

                                    Exhausted
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    7+ Year Member
                                    15+ Year Member
                                    Sep 18, 2003
                                    2,778
                                    9
                                    Waco, TX
                                    1. Resident [Any Field]
                                      Originally posted by PACtoDOC
                                      PainDR. is obvioiusly a specialist, and probably in a city. Being a DO in a situation like this is completely different than being a DO in primary care. And even though Sj wants to stroke PainDr's ego, she is a bit condescending to state that his opinion is the only relevant one here. Some of us have also been in the trenches, and really don't appreciate her wording there.

                                      But thanks SJ for your ever so diverse opinion. Good to hear such from someone who has never been in the trenches.

                                      With all due respect, PACtoDOC, get over yourself. :)

                                      It was just an opinion. You are free to disagree. That's why I said "in my opinion." And I wasn't claiming to have been in the trenches, I was saying that I appreciated hearing from someone who is currently a physician.

                                      Stroking the ego of some anonymous person on the internet is hardly high on my list of priorities. I just think it is interesting that you hear so few professionals who are interested in changing the DO title, that's all. Most DOs I know are turning patients away, not scrambling for them. As you said, "I don't think it kept them from being successful because their practice eventually built up based on their performance and reputation. "

                                      As always, your 5 years of being a PA makes you an expert on this and most other topics and I will dutifully defer to your wisdom from now on. :)
                                       

                                      sophiejane

                                      Exhausted
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      7+ Year Member
                                      15+ Year Member
                                      Sep 18, 2003
                                      2,778
                                      9
                                      Waco, TX
                                      1. Resident [Any Field]
                                        Originally posted by Slickness
                                        I agree. Even though I haven't been "in the trenches," I remember sophiejane used to put down my opinion because I'm just a premed student even though she's just a first year DO student.

                                        Anyways, PACtoDOC I certainly respect your opinion because much of what you say does make sense and you have seen it as a PA.

                                        I remember one time when one of my relatives was talking about DOs. She said that she had to choose from a list of family physicians from a paper that her insurance company had her choose. She automatically skipped all the DOs because she didn't know what they were and looked only at the MDs.

                                        I wouldn't be surprised if this happens a lot and DOs are losing out on business just because of the letters behind their name.

                                        Are you guys all on your period or what? Midol usually does the trick for me. :)

                                        Get a grip. It's a DISCUSSION, where people give OPINIONS. Let's not burn anyone at the stake here.

                                        Since you are such a good researcher, Slickness (I'm not being sarcastic either, I mean that), why don't you see if you can find some figures to back up your assertion about DOs lacking in patients. I'd be interested, since I am looking at some pretty scary debt already...
                                         

                                        Su4n2

                                        Senior Member
                                        7+ Year Member
                                        15+ Year Member
                                        Jul 24, 2002
                                        445
                                        3
                                          Sophiejane,
                                          i don't think this argument has to do with the number of patients that DO's get. It's just that many of us are frustrated that our professional org. is not representing us- which is what we pay them to do. it's sad that when i try to explain what a DO is and the response is " oh, a doctor and a chiropractor". people have no problem knowing what a chiro is, why can't we educate them about what a DO is. it can't be that difficult.
                                           

                                          gioia

                                          Full Member
                                          10+ Year Member
                                          15+ Year Member
                                          Dec 11, 2003
                                          556
                                          0
                                          TARDIS
                                          1. Fellow [Any Field]
                                            But How many of you actually APPROACHED the AOA en masse ? I'm really curious.

                                            It's easy to express ourselves to each other, but having worked in media I know that doesn't change anything.

                                            I am really more interested in getting DO actively represented (will post some info I got on that too) but I wanted to know where people stand on this issue.

                                            And why 'we' don't like the organization that is supposed to represent us!!?
                                             
                                            About the Ads

                                            Adapt

                                            2K Member
                                            7+ Year Member
                                            15+ Year Member
                                            Mar 19, 2003
                                            2,048
                                            6
                                              Originally posted by sophiejane
                                              Are you guys all on your period or what? Midol usually does the trick for me. :)

                                              Get a grip. It's a DISCUSSION, where people give OPINIONS. Let's not burn anyone at the stake here.

                                              Since you are such a good researcher, Slickness (I'm not being sarcastic either, I mean that), why don't you see if you can find some figures to back up your assertion about DOs lacking in patients. I'd be interested, since I am looking at some pretty scary debt already...
                                              I don't think anyone was trying to "burn you at the stake." Yes people have opinions but your opinion was that since we are not physicians, our opinions should not be taken seriously and we need "reality checks."

                                              Certainly, when there is a discussion going on and someone attempts to question the credibility of the person giving an opinion, then he or she is in the wrong, and as such should be told so. After all PACtoDOC is right that it is condescending and you should really try and stop that because it seems to be a habit of yours.

                                              Thanks for calling me a good researcher, but I never asserted that DOs lacked patients. Please do not put words in my mouth.

                                              I merely gave an example when a patient chose only MDs and not DOs. My conclusion was that maybe DOs are losing out on business because of this.

                                              However, as a most likely future DO, I certainly hope I see a lot of patients and never did "assert" that DOs lack patients.
                                               

                                              PACtoDOC

                                              1K Member
                                              7+ Year Member
                                              15+ Year Member
                                              Aug 2, 2002
                                              1,057
                                              3
                                                Originally posted by sophiejane
                                                Thanks, Pain Dr. Yours is the only response worth taking seriously

                                                When you come up with garbage statements right in the face of someone you know, don't expect for me to sit back idly by and listen to your rhetoric. That was offensive, not just opinionated. Don't hide behind the opinion and expect that it will be honored when it is an opinion based on putting other people's statements down. Your reputation is beginning to precede you here, and you have no background to back it up. What are you again, a first year med student? And what did you do before this? Have you ever had a patient to call your own or a responsibility similar? Don't think just because you are a schoolmate of mine that I am going to sit by and let you talk bad about me and everyone else on this thread. FYI, 3 postings since you and Dr.Pain's response seem to be from professionals who don't hold your opinion highly. But I guess they aren't the 3 DO's you know. Get over yourself rookie and learn how to be less critical when you open your mouth. I have wanted to say many things about your previous posts but I never did out of respect for you as a schoolmate. But when you said that my responses were not worth taking seriously, you crossed a line. Everyone lets one out before they have time to think about about what they are saying from time to time, and I hope that is what happened to you here.
                                                 

                                                sophiejane

                                                Exhausted
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                7+ Year Member
                                                15+ Year Member
                                                Sep 18, 2003
                                                2,778
                                                9
                                                Waco, TX
                                                1. Resident [Any Field]
                                                  Originally posted by Su4n2
                                                  Sophiejane,
                                                  i don't think this argument has to do with the number of patients that DO's get. It's just that many of us are frustrated that our professional org. is not representing us- which is what we pay them to do. it's sad that when i try to explain what a DO is and the response is " oh, a doctor and a chiropractor". people have no problem knowing what a chiro is, why can't we educate them about what a DO is. it can't be that difficult.

                                                  I agree completely. I was responding to the poster who thought that DOs probably were losing patients due to the confusion about the title. This may be true in a limited number of cases, but I have yet to meet a DO who is really struggling to get patients.

                                                  I agree that the AOA has some work to do, but I think we all knew when we signed up that there would be a lifetime of explaining to do. Compared to the allopathic profession and the numbers they represent, our field is relatively young and still quite small. You cannot compare us to the PA profession, IMHO. There were no other types of PAs around for hundreds of years to confuse the public--it was a totally new profession, and once people understood what they did--that was all it took.

                                                  The AOA have run ads in magazines, and there were some TV ads. But you are right--there needs to be a media blitz instead of occasional little bursts of activity that seem to go nowhere. They are so freaking proud of that building they own in Chicago--I wish some of that money had gone to publicity instead.

                                                  Still, I think the quality of our work is the best advertisement.
                                                   

                                                  Su4n2

                                                  Senior Member
                                                  7+ Year Member
                                                  15+ Year Member
                                                  Jul 24, 2002
                                                  445
                                                  3
                                                    just to add something re loosing patients. it seems to me that most DO's see patients by default. either patient 1. didn't know one was a DO- was just referred by physician/insuarance, etc 2. heard from word of mouth that this doctor is great, so i don't know what a DO is, my friend says he is great, i will go see him.

                                                    BUT: 2 things that happen are
                                                    1. DO's don't get many patients because they are DO's. noone says " that new doctor is a DO, i have heard lots about DO's, let me actively seek him out.

                                                    2. the second thing that happens is that when a patient is looking through an insuarance packet looking for a doctor, they will probably skip all the DO's. I know this b/c I used to do this before I knew what one was.
                                                    -now you will say, so what, there's no shortage of patients. This is true, but this is because there's a shortage of doctors. It has nothing to do with the underlying problem. This is the only way to connect our shortage of visibility with actual patients, and that is a problem.
                                                     

                                                    Adapt

                                                    2K Member
                                                    7+ Year Member
                                                    15+ Year Member
                                                    Mar 19, 2003
                                                    2,048
                                                    6
                                                      Originally posted by Su4n2
                                                      2. the second thing that happens is that when a patient is looking through an insuarance packet looking for a doctor, they will probably skip all the DO's. I know this b/c I used to do this before I knew what one was.
                                                      This is exactly what my example was about. My relative skipped all DOs in the insurance packet and only looked at MDs. Since you did it as well, it is not a far statement to say that DOs may lose business because of it.

                                                      Of course, this does not mean that DOs lack patients, as sophiejane incorrectly interpreted my statement as.

                                                      Although you also bring up an interesting point. By your reasoning, if there ever comes a time when there isn't a shortage of doctors, then DOs may lose patients.
                                                       

                                                      VentdependenT

                                                      You didnt build thaT
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      15+ Year Member
                                                      Oct 3, 2003
                                                      4,008
                                                      26
                                                      46
                                                      Louisville
                                                      www.somethingawful.com
                                                      1. Fellow [Any Field]
                                                        Originally posted by YoungFaithful
                                                        I am undoubtedly looking forward to entering the profession this fall at KCOM or MSUCOM, but I feel a slight hesitation due to the speck of uncertainty present in the DO degree.

                                                        Can someone remind me why I am going DO when I could get an established degree (MD) and do an OMT fellow and be recognized around the world?

                                                        Thanks,
                                                        YF

                                                        Don't go to an osteopathic school if you feel that way. Hold out and attend allo. You'll be happier in the long run.

                                                        Changing the name of the degree won't do much. Advertising won't do anything. Landing good allo residencies, generating strong osteopathic residencies (instead of pissing away existing ones), generating strong osteopathic research, generating strong basic sci research, and performing well at allo instiutions will increase positive awareness of the DO degree. Some osteopaths really need to lose their isolationist idealism.

                                                        In addition the profession needs to start shifting focus from FP to other fields in medicine. Whether the AOA will admit it, its already losing tons of its grads to non-fp allo residencies. It'll be forced to change its focus.
                                                         

                                                        VentdependenT

                                                        You didnt build thaT
                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                        15+ Year Member
                                                        Oct 3, 2003
                                                        4,008
                                                        26
                                                        46
                                                        Louisville
                                                        www.somethingawful.com
                                                        1. Fellow [Any Field]
                                                          Originally posted by Su4n2
                                                          just to add something re loosing patients. it seems to me that most DO's see patients by default. either patient 1. didn't know one was a DO- was just referred by physician/insuarance, etc 2. heard from word of mouth that this doctor is great, so i don't know what a DO is, my friend says he is great, i will go see him.

                                                          BUT: 2 things that happen are
                                                          1. DO's don't get many patients because they are DO's. noone says " that new doctor is a DO, i have heard lots about DO's, let me actively seek him out.

                                                          2. the second thing that happens is that when a patient is looking through an insuarance packet looking for a doctor, they will probably skip all the DO's. I know this b/c I used to do this before I knew what one was.
                                                          -now you will say, so what, there's no shortage of patients. This is true, but this is because there's a shortage of doctors. It has nothing to do with the underlying problem. This is the only way to connect our shortage of visibility with actual patients, and that is a problem.

                                                          Misinformed you are. You are using SDN logic. Word of mouth is more powerful than anything. Thats how I do everything in this world, and business is ALL word of mouth. How bout them apples?
                                                           

                                                          PACtoDOC

                                                          1K Member
                                                          7+ Year Member
                                                          15+ Year Member
                                                          Aug 2, 2002
                                                          1,057
                                                          3
                                                            I have to agree with Vent on one premise. When I worked full time in a family practice, our practice was so large that we could not afford to add the names of the midlevel in the phone book add. And of course we were not listed in the insurance books. But within a year of working pretty slow, only seeing 10-20 people per day max, I became overwhelmed with people waiting to see me to where before I came back to medical school, I was seeing 35 patients on average per day and they were all people who chose to see me. I had no idea where they were coming from and neither did my physician. But he got over the ego issue knowing that he was making a killing off these patients that were actually his but whom he had never even seen. So as a PA if you can be successful, I guarantee you can as any physician.
                                                             

                                                            DocWagner

                                                            Senior Member
                                                            7+ Year Member
                                                            15+ Year Member
                                                            Aug 1, 2002
                                                            520
                                                            8
                                                            1. Attending Physician
                                                              I can tell you WHOLEHEARTEDLY that people will seek you out as a DO!

                                                              I am a DO in an MD residency, and they tell me "I love DO's! I just don't like Hospital X where they practice...DO's practice here too??"
                                                              The concensus from the what I can tell, is that patients love DO's, but simply don't like the DO hospitals. More DO's out of the traditional systems, means greater public awareness.

                                                              Mark my words young grasshopper!
                                                               

                                                              gioia

                                                              Full Member
                                                              10+ Year Member
                                                              15+ Year Member
                                                              Dec 11, 2003
                                                              556
                                                              0
                                                              TARDIS
                                                              1. Fellow [Any Field]
                                                                Thank you again for contacting the AOA. We hope that you will take a few moments to browse DO-Online's Public Relations Resource Center. I am available to further discuss with you ways to utilize this resource center and/or educate the public about osteopathic medicine.

                                                                Sincerely,

                                                                Mike Campea
                                                                Public Relations Specialist
                                                                American Osteopathic Association
                                                                142 E. Ontario St.
                                                                Chicago, IL 60611
                                                                (312) 202-8043
                                                                (800) 621-1773, ext. 8043
                                                                (312) 202-8343 Fax


                                                                In case you or your class would like to contact the AOA.
                                                                 
                                                                About the Ads

                                                                pakijiga

                                                                Member
                                                                7+ Year Member
                                                                15+ Year Member
                                                                Jul 30, 2003
                                                                42
                                                                0
                                                                  i like the idea of MD-O, but the name is already taken.. i think its a degree for some type of oriental medicine or something like that..

                                                                  its not about having our name changed as much as it is having the AOA actively education people on what our profession is. Having DO's talk on morning shows, shows like the view or oprah would not be a bad idea, have specials or little clips on nightly news isnt bad eihter, also have print ads run in news papers. ive seen like ONE ad my entire life about osteopathic physicans.

                                                                  my 2 cents..
                                                                   

                                                                  sophiejane

                                                                  Exhausted
                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  7+ Year Member
                                                                  15+ Year Member
                                                                  Sep 18, 2003
                                                                  2,778
                                                                  9
                                                                  Waco, TX
                                                                  1. Resident [Any Field]
                                                                    if everyone who complains here about the AOA also contacted them directly with their concerns, there might be hope for seeing some of the changes you want to see. talking among ourselves is fine, but it won't change anything.
                                                                     

                                                                    sddoc

                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    7+ Year Member
                                                                    15+ Year Member
                                                                    Jan 7, 2003
                                                                    277
                                                                    0
                                                                    Rapid City, SD
                                                                    1. Resident [Any Field]
                                                                      The president of the AOA was at our school this week. Based on his speech, I would say that this argument is baseless. According to the pres, having the initials DO after your name is the greatest honor you can have. He recommended that we as students do our part to get the word out by telling people that we are osteopathic medical students. It didn't sound like there were any imminent changes in the works.
                                                                       

                                                                      xxyyzz

                                                                      Junior Member
                                                                      7+ Year Member
                                                                      15+ Year Member
                                                                      Oct 15, 2003
                                                                      30
                                                                      0
                                                                        Interesting post...I too believe the AOA does a poor job promoting the osteopathic field but not just in awareness; and this may be due in part because most of the AOA politicians are die-hard D.O.'s who are not willing to open up their minds to change. If you think about it, where do the leaders of the AOA come from? Most osteopathic students choose to complete their residency at an allopathic institution (thereby barring them from participating in AOA legislation). The rest of the students, usually the die hard D.O.s and "cranial kids" do their osteopathic residency and later become leaders in the AOA.

                                                                        Why do you think there are ridiculous questions on the COMLEX about Chapman's points or other dubious osteopathic medical topics? Why is it that most of the AOA Unity promotion (with their TV ads and what not) are focused on the East Coast? Why are we creating more schools instead of promoting our field as someone brought up earlier?

                                                                        I've been to both the AOA and SOMA conventions and decided that it's more of a forum to handshake and create statements like "Year of the Intern". Unless you change the leadership of the AOA, true change will be slow, or unlikely to happen. You can always try to voice your opinions through SOMA, but they too truly have little voice besides serving as "cheerleaders" for the profession.

                                                                        Though I've had my battles with Slickness in the past, I absolutely agree with him on this one. :)
                                                                         

                                                                        Dave81

                                                                        Member
                                                                        7+ Year Member
                                                                        15+ Year Member
                                                                        Jan 26, 2004
                                                                        34
                                                                        0
                                                                        39
                                                                        Florida
                                                                        1. Medical Student
                                                                          Advertisement is key.
                                                                          We need to be put on Health Magazines, TIME, T.V. shows, newspapers, etc.

                                                                          More DO schools is a good step. Greater # of DO schools= Greater # of DOs practicing in the future = Greater awareness.

                                                                          my 2.5 cents
                                                                           

                                                                          gioia

                                                                          Full Member
                                                                          10+ Year Member
                                                                          15+ Year Member
                                                                          Dec 11, 2003
                                                                          556
                                                                          0
                                                                          TARDIS
                                                                          1. Fellow [Any Field]
                                                                            I really don't mind the title of 'DO', although it really is Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

                                                                            MD's are called: Medical Doctors. Not: Doctors of Allopathic Medicine.

                                                                            The confusion comes in here:

                                                                            "Doctor of Chiropractor Medicine"

                                                                            "Chiropractor Physician"

                                                                            "Oriental Medical Doctor"

                                                                            Those "titles" are not not acknowleged medical degrees but they imply as much. Don't those titles seem misleading?

                                                                            I do not care to compete with the 'MD' title. I only care to differentiate myself from non-acknowleged Medical degrees.

                                                                            Any thoughts????
                                                                             

                                                                            raptor5

                                                                            Fooled by Randomness
                                                                            15+ Year Member
                                                                            May 28, 2003
                                                                            1,070
                                                                            37
                                                                            Without cell reception
                                                                              My question is do all DO degrees have the same title. I have seen the ones from past PCOM grads that say Doctor of Osteopathy. Has this changed? Just curious.

                                                                              I do not have a problem with the DO degree and will be proud to have it. I think the last thing that needs to be done now is change the degree title. Nothing like confusing patients even more. How would you like to explain that one to a patient on top of what a DO, or whatever it would be, is.
                                                                               

                                                                              DireWolf

                                                                              The Pride of Cucamonga
                                                                              10+ Year Member
                                                                              15+ Year Member
                                                                              Mar 31, 2003
                                                                              6,512
                                                                              8
                                                                              Timbers of Fennario
                                                                              1. Attending Physician
                                                                                I think a name change for the degree is a great idea. It isn't the magic bullet that will solve all of our problems, but it is a step in the right direction. I don't think a new name could possibly be any more confusing than D.O.

                                                                                I have contacted Mike Campea, and I urge all medical students, residents, and attendings to do the same.

                                                                                Advertising on TV and magazines is a joke. It would be a waste of resources, and it cries out desperation. Opening up new schools is definitely not the answer. The sad state of osteopathic residency programs is a testament to that. Leaving students high and dry come training time is not my idea of helping the profession.

                                                                                BTW, for those who feel that changing the name is a cry of desperation, it is really a change that better represents our profession. To not have the word medicine in our degree is an inaccurate and misleading representation.
                                                                                 

                                                                                PACtoDOC

                                                                                1K Member
                                                                                7+ Year Member
                                                                                15+ Year Member
                                                                                Aug 2, 2002
                                                                                1,057
                                                                                3
                                                                                  Ultimately I think it is best to simply keep the DO title and educate to the n'th degree about what it stands for. Changing the name to something similar to the MD title will be confusing to the people that do already know what DO's are, and it actually sort of reinforces the myth of insecurity. It would cost tons to change the name because it would require all 50 states to change their medical practice laws to reflect the new name, and it would potentially cause a backlash from state AMA chapters who fight anything that infringes upon them. The best solution is to educate at the level of mass media, and it might mean that every DO would have to quadruple their dues for several years. I personally would pay it, and if the AOA promissed to use the funds to educate, then I believe you could get a lot of people to sign on. I would seriously pay 1000 bucks a year for 4 years (dues) if it meant national television adds, newspaper adds, magazine adds, radio campaigns....etc... This is ultimately the solution that makes the most sense. Plus, we need to come together as DO's and clean house of the AOA leadership isolationists who wish to keep us separate from AMA education. It would be best to incorporate all DO residencies into allopathic residencies and simply have a side track for DO's to get dually certified in the respective specialty. Family Medicine has already taken the lead here with numerous dually certified programs. I also think it is time to do away with DO only hospitals and show that the two medical degrees are really only different in the undergraduate medical education, and in the subtle differences in residency training within each individual program (like most FP dual progams have the DO residents time divided up a slightly different way to satisfy AOA rotating intern requirements). And I think it is time to get a petition drive going to eliminate cranial method and Sutherland techniques from DO education. My guess is that we could get an overwhelmingly large percentage of practicing DO's to support this. I mean there are as many allopaths practicing natural medicine and chelation as there are DO's practicing cranial, but you don't see those two schools of thought being taught much in allopathic schools. Let the tree hugging CRI feeling weirdos learn it on their own outside of the school, and stop testing it on the boards. I seriously think it is time to move toward evidenced based manip, and cranial will never and has never cut the mustard. In fact, see my new thread on Osteopathic Forum.
                                                                                   

                                                                                  EastCoaster78

                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  7+ Year Member
                                                                                  15+ Year Member
                                                                                  Nov 26, 2003
                                                                                  192
                                                                                  0
                                                                                    Haah!

                                                                                    Sorry, but this thread really got me PO'd. I personally have known what DOs were before I even considered going into medicine. And I have alot of friends and friends of my familly are DOs. And believe it or not, they are actually PROUD of their profession. I'm sure that most DO's would agree that if u went into their practice and told them, "we will now refer to you as MD-O" they would laugh in your face and tell you to get the F out of their office. All I have to say to the poeple who would like the degree granted by osteopathic institutions to be changed is to read the fine print next time you decide on a profession.

                                                                                    PEace
                                                                                     

                                                                                    gioia

                                                                                    Full Member
                                                                                    10+ Year Member
                                                                                    15+ Year Member
                                                                                    Dec 11, 2003
                                                                                    556
                                                                                    0
                                                                                    TARDIS
                                                                                    1. Fellow [Any Field]
                                                                                      Gee Eastcoater,

                                                                                      Go to the west coast for a while and chill. The thread (if you read the beginning) was really a constructive response to the rumors I heard floating around.

                                                                                      I appreciate your frustration, but take it out on a different thread.

                                                                                      I chose DO and I'm proud of it:D


                                                                                      ....and yes, I read the fine print.
                                                                                       

                                                                                      PACtoDOC

                                                                                      1K Member
                                                                                      7+ Year Member
                                                                                      15+ Year Member
                                                                                      Aug 2, 2002
                                                                                      1,057
                                                                                      3
                                                                                        Chill Eastperson!!
                                                                                        I think we are all proud to be in the DO profession, because if we were not we would not care at the end of the day what we were called. Pride is about wanting the recognition one deserves, and about wanting to show one's accomplishments. Its great that you know what a DO is, and that you have since you were in utero, but the vast majority of Americans know more about chiroquacks than about DO's, real physicians. I am not saying we need to take over strip centers and move in next to every Payless Shoes to become known, but it would be nice if most Americans knew they had a choice of two fully qualified physicians instead of finding them by accident or rumor. I think the time is and has been perfect for educating about DO's because of the mainstream desire for holistic and alternative providers. Although we are not alternative per-se, we can fit that mold for people who want another choice. THE TIME TO EDUCATE IS NOW, WHILE THE AOA SPENDS OUR MONEY ON POINTLESS THINGS LIKE MORE DO RESIDENCIES AND PAMPHLETS THAT READ "YEAR OF THE UNKNOWNS"!!!!! DO leaders tend to not cut the mustard in many ways, even just in common knowledge.

                                                                                        We had the ACOFP President come to our school last February to speak and entertain questions. I asked him, "Sir, can you tell me about the program in Albuqurque that is recently dually accredited AOA/ACGME"? He had never heard of it.

                                                                                        I then asked him what his thoughts were on the proposed COMPLEX PE, and what ACOFP's stance on it was? He had never heard of it but said he would look into it. Our state allopathic FP organization had already formulated their own opinion and rebutle against the same USMLE PE, but our national organization had never heard of it. And now the damn test is official!!! Good to see that our leaders have an interest and are knowledgable!!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        About the Ads
                                                                                        This thread is more than 17 years old.

                                                                                        Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

                                                                                        1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
                                                                                        2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
                                                                                        3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
                                                                                        4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
                                                                                        5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
                                                                                        6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
                                                                                        7. This thread is locked.