DO over MD?

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WOAH. wait just a minute. i just checked my gmail. my premed adviser wrote that "i should also consider the pay discrepancy." WTF is she talking about??? there's a pay discrepancy between DO's and MD's now??

not from what I know....maybe in terms of getting hired by some MD groups?
 
WOAH. wait just a minute. i just checked my gmail. my premed adviser wrote that "i should also consider the pay discrepancy." WTF is she talking about??? there's a pay discrepancy between DO's and MD's now??

You mine as well talk to the homeless guy rambling drunk outside of the bars near your college before you talk to the pre-medical advisers at your college. They are clueless and wrong in this, and most, cases.
 
I got accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose DO based on your exact reasons and I'm a resident now. Don't listen to what any of the pre-med kiddies here tell you. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Thank you J. As i get closer to deposit deadlines, i'm sure i will (contact you that is).
 
WOAH. wait just a minute. i just checked my gmail. my premed adviser wrote that "i should also consider the pay discrepancy." WTF is she talking about??? there's a pay discrepancy between DO's and MD's now??

I have no idea what she is talking about and probably she has no idea what she is talking about, either. Sometimes, pre-med advisors aren't as dialed in as they should be. Do your own research, hopefully from better sources, rather than depending on pre-med advisors for such information.
 
OP - I promise you, you will never have an issue finding patients. Have you ever met a starving Doctor? Don't let fear of what patients think of you stop you of pursuing the school that is your best fit. And by the way - the majority of patients have NO idea that "D.O's are Doctors who couldn't get into MD schools" (which, I agree...the stats show 1 out of 3 D.O students are MD rejects, but that does leave 2 out of 3 that weren't). They have no idea about the medical school admissions process. Many people fear what they do not know...which is why there may be skepticism about D.O's. If you don't want to spend time educating individuals on what "D.O" means, maybe pursue the MD degree. Btw - my grandmother won't see a D.O. She also won't see a doctor who isn't Catholic. She won't see a woman. She won't see a minority. Do you really want to deal with a patient like that? I wouldn't. (what I mean is that if a patient won't see you because you are a D.O...would you really want to treat them anyway?).

Now getting off my rant about the BS reasons you were told NOT to go D.O...make a pros and cons list. If you want to pursue ROADS...definitely go MD. If you are super interested in research...probably go MD. If you don't want to explain to people what a D.O is...go MD (but please still explain it to them if they ask🙂). If you don't want to take both the COMLEX and the USMLE...go MD. If you are afraid that people will think you are inferior because of a D.O degree, then go MD. If you hate the letters D.O...go MD. If none of these issues matter to you, pursue the school that your pros and cons list shows to be in your best interest (even if it is the MD school).

Good luck! Sometimes it's really hard to make the right decision! :luck:
 
You mine as well talk to the homeless guy rambling drunk outside of the bars near your college before you talk to the pre-medical advisers at your college. They are clueless and wrong in this, and most, cases.

nah, my adviser knows her stuff. she's been indispensable during this application cycle. she might just be speaking subjectively here, though
 
OP, by the way, I agree with J1515. I'd take advice about this from pre-meds with a grain of salt. Many don't have the practical experience to comment meaningfully and are just repeating stuff that they "heard" (although, it is also true that some do know what they are talking about, but they are the exception). Also, please note that you posted this thread in the pre-allo forum, so advice may be skewed toward that direction.
 
nah, my adviser knows her stuff. she's been indispensable during this application cycle. she might just be speaking subjectively here, though

What do you mean by speaking subjectively? That's meaningless. Ask for facts and evidence. It seems that many advisors can be ignorant with respect to osteopathic medicine.
 
nah, my adviser knows her stuff. she's been indispensable during this application cycle. she might just be speaking subjectively here, though

Yeah, I'd agree with Spiced ... be careful. If she confidently said something as foolish as pay differences, I think I'd test the depth of the water before I dove in based on her advice.
 
I'm really glad i posted this question. it was no fun mulling it over myself. i'd like to modify something i said earlier: it's not that I care about the initials after my name. I just want to know if others will. but i'm getting the impression, from this thread, that they wont...or they probably don't know the difference.

if DO's had the same exposure as MDs then this decision would be a lot easier...
 
Refresh my memory with images, if you could. 😉

http://www.docnet.org/physicians/phys_bios.aspx?phys_id=10145

Doesn't look like her being a DO played too much part of her being included in the film. Honestly, I remember being in undergrad and seeing 'Supersize Me' at a campus screening and noticing the DO initials of the doctor. At the time, I figured that it just meant she was a special doctor of some sort...given the frequency at which nurses are referred to as 'doctor,' I'm sure most Americans have a similar mode of thinking.

OP: Going the DO route may come to hurt you if you should decide to persue an academic career. Barring that, I don't see any shortcomings to going the DO route especially considering your desire to do primary care. Going to an OOS MD school, espeicialy if its significantly higher in tuition could potentially force you out of primary care for financial reasons like many other current med students (including yours truly).
 
I'm really glad i posted this question. it was no fun mulling it over myself. i'd like to modify something i said earlier: it's not that I care about the initials after my name. I just want to know if others will. but i'm getting the impression, from this thread, that they wont...or they probably don't know the difference.

if DO's had the same exposure as MDs then this decision would be a lot easier...

1. It's fine to be concerned and research. It's smart actually and if you're legitimately trying to figure things out, no one is going to jump down your throat for asking questions.

2. If it makes you feel any better about the exposure thing ... DOs have been officially around since 1892 (KCOM, woot woot), and in the 117ish years since then, it wasn't until the 60s or so that they were actual, fully licensed physicians, and even longer before things started to go pretty smoothly. With that said, at this point, only something like 6% of practicing docs are DOs. However, right now 1 in every 5 medical students is enrolled in an osteopathic medical school. This means that (taking into account allopathic expansion by 2015) that DOs should be much closer to 20% of practicing physicians by the time we are really out and about. So I'm not saying this is exactly how it will work out, or that my sources are dead on, but this SHOULD help exposure greatly (in my opinion).
 
http://www.docnet.org/physicians/phys_bios.aspx?phys_id=10145

Doesn't look like her being a DO played too much part of her being included in the film. Honestly, I remember being in undergrad and seeing 'Supersize Me' at a campus screening and noticing the DO initials of the doctor. At the time, I figured that it just meant she was a special doctor of some sort...given the frequency at which nurses are referred to as 'doctor,' I'm sure most Americans have a similar mode of thinking.

OP: Going the DO route may come to hurt you if you should decide to persue an academic career. Barring that, I don't see any shortcomings to going the DO route especially considering your desire to do primary care. Going to an OOS MD school, espeicialy if its significantly higher in tuition could potentially force you out of primary care for financial reasons like many other current med students (including yours truly).

I get what you're saying about academia, and you're probably right. However, it doesn't help that the doc you linked in your comment is a DO and an assistant clinical professor at Columbia :laugh:
 
I've been accepted to one MD school. It's OOS but i have close ties (my parents live there). I've also been accepted to 3 DO schools. One is in my resident state, the city where i've lived pretty much my entire life. I am planning to get married soon to my fiance and we really want to stay near our hometown. SO, do you guys think that I would regret it if I chose the nearer DO school over the MD school i got into (which, i forgot to mention, is on the east coast, whereas my hometown is on the West coast). Do you think there's still a "stigma" attached to being a DO in the medical community? You think it might affect me down the line when i apply to residencies?

any advice/help is greatly appreciated. if you need other info, just ask.

The fact that you're asking for opinions tells me that you have some definite apprehension about going to a DO school. If I were in your position, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to get the MD and I think you'd be happier getting an MD since you couldn't decide for yourself that going DO was the way for you.
 
At my sisters 28th birthday, I was talking with her friends about my medical school goals. When they asked me what post-grad school I wanted to go to I mentioned my favorite respective M.D./D.O. schools.


No one there know what an M.D. or a D.O. was. I had to literally explain letter for letter to a group of eight adults that an M.D. was a physician.


In short: the general public doesn't know or care about the difference between an M.D. or a D.O.
 
At my sisters 28th birthday, I was talking with her friends about my medical school goals. When they asked me what post-grad school I wanted to go to I mentioned my favorite respective M.D./D.O. schools.


No one there know what an M.D. or a D.O. was. I had to literally explain letter for letter to a group of 8 adults that an M.D. was a physician.


In short: the general public doesn't know or care about the difference between an M.D. or a D.O.

^^ This. I've had to explain to more than one person what an MD was, as well as what a DO was. People are deeply ignorant in this society. ^.^

That aside, you have to decide based on your own preferences. To me, deciding factors about a school were location, cost of attendance, curriculum and "feel." I will be attending a DO school, for a number of reasons. I could see myself living in that city, hanging out at that campus, interacting with the professors that I met on the tour. I was encouraged by the strength of their clinical rotations and felt that I would fit in with the culture of the school. Regardless of the letters after your name, it is most important to be at a school that will make you happy and give you the greatest chance at thriving, academically and personally.
 
not that I will rule out all MD schools but I would go to an in state DO over an OOS MD school anyday. For one, I strongly agree with the DO beliefs of self healing and two, wayyyy cheaper tuition. but that's just me! do whatever will make you happiest, not what you think other people will think of it.
 
When I tell people I'll be attending medical school, they say "oh, so you want to be a nurse?"

Go figure...
 
You're from Texas. Of course you would go to TCOM before you go to any OOS school!


haha is that my fault that i happen to live in texas????! but seriously, i am very pro DO. I really like the belief of self sustainability and healing of the human body. My brother and his wife both are about to graduate DO in may, WVSOM, and i was able to attend the campus a couple of times during the school year for a visit and I really like the curriculum. The whole manipulation thing is very interesting..
 
Oh no, here comes Bacchus again with his infinite wisdom 😎. If you are worried about what others will think you have inferiority issues that well go beyond your future career. Be rational; no doctor is going to run out of patients unless he or she is useless, vile, loathing, etc.

Money talks in America. People are going to say what they do for a variety of reasons. Show them your paycheck, as a DO, and they will shut up or show great envy of you. The people telling you this bull**** are those with inferiority complexes. Do not stoop to their level.

You are legally able to call yourself a physician. Why do you care what others think? Grow a pair and move on.


BOOOM. preach it
 
At my sisters 28th birthday, I was talking with her friends about my medical school goals. When they asked me what post-grad school I wanted to go to I mentioned my favorite respective M.D./D.O. schools.


No one there know what an M.D. or a D.O. was. I had to literally explain letter for letter to a group of eight adults that an M.D. was a physician.


In short: the general public doesn't know or care about the difference between an M.D. or a D.O.

Ugh, I know. My best friend of 15 years and someone who I speak with DAILY concerning this process:

Him: 'So like are you gonna just become an MD or like a surgeon or something?'

Me: 'Huh?'

Him: 'Like are you just going to be an MD and see patients and stuff or do you want to umm, uhhh SPECIALIZE?'

Me: 'Dude, I think you are confusing a doctor who does family medicine or general practice or is an internist with someone else who decided to do surgery or something.'

Him: ' Oh, I thought MDs were the guys you just made appointments and saw like Dr Edmunds (his PCP), and surgeons and guys at the hospitals were something else.'

Me: 'No.'
 
My advice would be go to MD. Now my main reason for this is not to knock DO schools, which will give you a great if not better education than you might get at some MD schools. I think OMM could be a great tool to have....


However if you want a tangible reason as to why MD over DO...it's simply residency options.

Research publications indicate that Residency slots have been capped since the late 90's. While the numbers of DOs in ACGME residencies has increased in the past 10 years significantly, the number of MDs graduating is concurrently starting to increase along with DOs. As a result, it seems gaining a residency will be more competitive for all physicians (DO,MD, FMG). However, most ACGME programs will favor MDs, as a result there might end up being significant amounts of DOs and FMGs that do not match at all.

My guess is that the pecking order will hold true MD > DO > FMG, and mostly FMGs will get squeezed out. But this is a legit concern, just look at what happened at KCUMB with the president trying to get LCME accreditation to provide the best chances for their DO students to match---unfortunately for KCUMB, she was fired.



I would say that this residency concern would not matter if you are dead set on primary care, pmr, psychiatry....However, You might change your mind.

If you want a top residency ROADS, then go MD. You could make the argument that DOs have osteopathic residencies for these tough specialties, but i THINK many good fellowships will not take on AOA residents? Additionally, there are many less osteopathic residencies and this will limit you on location, prestige of hospital etc....


Keep in mind as well, some Hospitals do not allow DO students to rotate at their hospitals....this might piss you off as a DO student who has busted his/her butt off, to be turned away because of BS hierarchy. Nonetheless, it is part of the climate.

So in summation, unless you really value OMM, know you want primary care, and/or really love the school, or will save THAT much $$$, or really MEANS that much to stay close to home, I wouldn't pick the DO. But if all of those do apply, it could work for you.


P.S. have you thought about attending the MD school, and then you can transfer for personal reasons down the line closer to home. I think you would have less regrets in the future with the MD.
 
look, you talk about from a warm place. If you are from california or the west coast, think before you go DO. DO doesn't fly as well in california.
 
look, you talk about from a warm place. If you are from california or the west coast, think before you go DO. DO doesn't fly as well in california.

Maybe not as much in the Northern part (who hella cares), but I'm from the Southern part and I've heard nothing but good things from docs down here.
 
Maybe not as much in the Northern part (who hella cares), but I'm from the Southern part and I've heard nothing but good things from docs down here.

The North Coast (Mendocino/Humboldt County) is very DO-friendly.
 
Maybe not as much in the Northern part (who hella cares), but I'm from the Southern part and I've heard nothing but good things from docs down here.

again, please don't go DO if you are from california. I know certain group practice that won't hire MDs. Believe me, they get to choose because everyone wants to be in Cali.

I was faced with the same choice, and I choose to leave California and do a long distance relationship. Don't shoot your career before it even begin.
 
again, please don't go DO if you are from california. I know certain group practice that won't hire MDs. Believe me, they get to choose because everyone wants to be in Cali.

I was faced with the same choice, and I choose to leave California and do a long distance relationship. Don't shoot your career before it even begin.

Depends on the specialty and academic vs private practice. EM is DO friendly, though Cali is a tough market any way you slice it.
 
again, please don't go DO if you are from california. I know certain group practice that won't hire MDs. Believe me, they get to choose because everyone wants to be in Cali.

I was faced with the same choice, and I choose to leave California and do a long distance relationship. Don't shoot your career before it even begin.

Nor Cal?? Again, I have heard one complaint from a doc in Cali and he was a DO anesthesiologist who trained in ACGME (big name ACGME as a matter of fact) and was working at a hospital in So Cal. Basically, he was originally from the bay and had some friends who worked in gas up there (MDs). One of his friend's groups had an opening so he recommended to the boss of the group that they take a look at the DO. The boss said he wasn't sure about hiring a DO, could they see him work? The guy came up, he worked with them for a few days, they offered him a job (which he turned down).

I really don't see this bias in Southern California. I worked in a hospital for two years at a huge academic medical center and the head of the Emergency Department was a DO. Are you telling me they couldn't have their pick of doctors??? Of course, and they went with a DO.

Look, I'm not saying bias doesn't exist in certain situations, but again, I've heard it (and heard the most ignorant things about it, ironically) only in Nor Cal. Again though, if this scares the OP or whatever, then go to the MD school. However, I really think it's tough to label Cali as a whole as horrible for DOs or whatever lame dramatic statement one wants to make, simply because of an experience in their area because frankly, I have not seen it where I'm from. Plus, tkim is right ... CA is probably just the worst place for physician jobs in general. Everyone wants to live here, so salaries are way lower and cost of living is way higher.
 
The North Coast (Mendocino/Humboldt County) is very DO-friendly.

Only place I've heard anything about is the 'Bay area.' Luckily, you couldn't get me to live in the bay area with a gun to my head.
 
My dad's PCP is a DO and she's lovely. My physician while I was in the hospital was a DO, and the MD's I've shadowed say they know several competent DO's and that once you're in the work place as long as you can do your job no one cares.

I was in the doctors lounge once, listening to surgeons rip into an MD for being a complete ***** and then praising a DO. It's about YOU as a doctor and nothing else.

P.S. this is all in Southern California...
 
California is horrendously overrated.
 
nah, my adviser knows her stuff. she's been indispensable during this application cycle. she might just be speaking subjectively here, though

There is no pay discrepancy, objectively or subjectively. She's 100% wrong.
 
Hi guys. Look a bird.

Bird.png
 
Good examples, but they'll mean nothing on SDN.

SDN is comprised of people arguing with an arsenal of conjecture, examples with a sample size of 1, and third party 'my uncle is an MD radiologist who said ...' So the poster was just fighting fire with fire. No different from the example I made as a rebuttal to the n = 1 example someone else made, etc.
 
Jagger, I'm not saying becoming a DO is necessarily a bad thing. I just think it's important that a person fully understands that they will be perceived differently by a number of patients. You are probably right that patients generally don't know too much about the medical field, but I think most know that doctors are MD. It's in pop culture and people are used to seeing signs on buildings saying First Last, M.D.


I work in a medical office which houses two critical care related specialties. There is one DO out of 7 doctors in the office. The DO (who happens to be the head of his practice and former chief of staff of the hospital which which he is affiliated) has by far the most patients. For every patient that is turned off by seeing DO, there is at least 1 person if not several people that see it as a pro.
 
I work in a medical office which houses two critical care related specialties. There is one DO out of 7 doctors in the office. The DO (who happens to be the head of his practice and former chief of staff of the hospital which which he is affiliated) has by far the most patients. For every patient that is turned off by seeing DO, there is at least 1 person if not several people that see it as a pro.

.... and an angel gets their wings ( a little holiday cheer for ya ) :laugh:


Just kidding. Nice example and good point.
 
Overrated =/= Bad.

Overrated == Overrated.

In which aspects is it overrated?? I feel as if it is overrated in certain aspects, but in others, it lives up to the hype and is rated/regarded quite appropriately. Would you care to elaborate?
 
I've been accepted to one MD school. It's OOS but i have close ties (my parents live there). I've also been accepted to 3 DO schools. One is in my resident state, the city where i've lived pretty much my entire life. I am planning to get married soon to my fiance and we really want to stay near our hometown. SO, do you guys think that I would regret it if I chose the nearer DO school over the MD school i got into (which, i forgot to mention, is on the east coast, whereas my hometown is on the West coast). Do you think there's still a "stigma" attached to being a DO in the medical community? You think it might affect me down the line when i apply to residencies?

any advice/help is greatly appreciated. if you need other info, just ask.

OP, stay at home. Go DO. Medical school will place enough of a strain on your new marriage that the cost/hardship of a move on top of it is unnecessary.
 
Hi guys. Look a bird.

Bird.png

Cool looking bird.

I am for going down hill. Down stream. Medical school and training is enough work just to b average. You have but to do the right research to determine going DO means going uphill in a variety of situations.

When I was thinking for sure I wanted to be a pediatrician. Then I would have applied to instate DO schools and thought hard about it. Now that I'm not sure about primary care. The debate in my head is dead. The MD degree is an easier ticket. That makes is itself painfully clear in certain locales and certain specialties.

I don't get the argument that stresses hard work as a panacea. Whether you go DO or MD your up against the brightest, hardest-hustling students in the country. I d@mn sure don't want to be starting at a disadvantage. But maybe because after battling up hill as a premed with a lower gpa I've just had enough. That and I'm taking a hard look at Radiology from the get go.

Either way. Use your own mind and balls to make your own decision and go with it.
 
Cool looking bird.

I am for going down hill. Down stream. Medical school and training is enough work just to b average. You have but to do the right research to determine going DO means going uphill in a variety of situations.

When I was thinking for sure I wanted to be a pediatrician. Then I would have applied to instate DO schools and thought hard about it. Now that I'm not sure about primary care. The debate in my head is dead. The MD degree is an easier ticket. That makes is itself painfully clear in certain locales and certain specialties.

I don't get the argument that stresses hard work as a panacea. Whether you go DO or MD your up against the brightest, hardest-hustling students in the country. I d@mn sure don't want to be starting at a disadvantage. But maybe because after battling up hill as a premed with a lower gpa I've just had enough. That and I'm taking a hard look at Radiology from the get go.

Either way. Use your own mind and balls to make your own decision and go with it.

Good luck with rads ...
 
Regular people = the huge majority of Americans, a huge majority of which don't even have health insurance or a PCP, let alone give a crap or have any clue whatsoever regarding their doc's credentials.

I think everybody (most people) agree w/ you that DO = MD. I personally agree w/ you. However, many Americans do not know what DO is, nor care b/c they are accustomed to MD. Personally, I want to go MD for this reason alone. Although I do not believe MD > DO, I also do not want to spend the next 40 years of my life explaning what DO is. I want people to see me and immediately think, "okay this doctor is going to help me", and not ,"is he qualified"? I can't help if people in society are misinformed, and could personally try my hardest to educate people...but the truth is, most people won't care. Rather than educating the world, I rather take the easy route and just get a MD. Irony lol.
 
I also do not want to spend the next 40 years of my life explaning what DO is..

Common pre-med myth that never happens in reality. I had one patient ask about the initials two years ago when I was a 3rd year student. Nobody else has ever asked (out of hundreds to thousands).

The problem is pre-meds always want to be the best and most prestigious at whatever they do, which is probably why they all think they're going into radiology, dermatology, cardiology, or neurosurgery (note that most of you won't). Sick patients just want to get better. This is a difficult concept for you guys to grasp.
 
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I had one patient ask about the initials two years ago when I was a 3rd year student. Nobody else has ever asked (out of hundreds to thousands).

Pre-meds always want to be the best and most prestigious at whatever they do, which is probably why they all think they're going into radiology, dermatology, cardiology, or neurosurgery (note that most of you won't). Sick patients just want to get better. This is a difficult concept for pre-meds to grasp.

This is being obtuse on several levels. The OP talks about career strategy. And now we're talking about perceived prestige and all about what premeds don't know. From a med student coming to the premed forum seemingly for the enjoyment of restating a hierarchy.

Yeah. i may end up in primary care. but for reasons all my own. i want to open my options. realizing the odds. many of us are premeds. not all of us are myrmidons.

sick patients in a corrupt morass of bureaucracy. some should be left for dead but are denied this. some wanting what they saw on TV. some thinking Jenny McCarthy is a vaccine expert. some wanting to know why everything in the american arsenal of technology is not being brought to bear on their broke @ss. etc.

you want to take the full brunt of this assault. go right ahead.

the initials matter nada. but you get one shot at a lifelong career. one that is souring from its former glory. so a little thinking. and some serious strategy is in order.
 
I think everybody (most people) agree w/ you that DO = MD. I personally agree w/ you. However, many Americans do not know what DO is, nor care b/c they are accustomed to MD. Personally, I want to go MD for this reason alone. Although I do not believe MD > DO, I also do not want to spend the next 40 years of my life explaning what DO is. I want people to see me and immediately think, "okay this doctor is going to help me", and not ,"is he qualified"? I can't help if people in society are misinformed, and could personally try my hardest to educate people...but the truth is, most people won't care. Rather than educating the world, I rather take the easy route and just get a MD. Irony lol.

I'm inclined to defer to J15, simply because he's been through it, but you presented your points in a logical, well-informed way, and I respect that. I see what you are saying. Even if it may not be true (like J15 suggested), and you never have to explain what a DO is once, the idea of it happening or the potential of it happening can be annoying, so if it's a reason you have for wanting to attending a MD school, then that is fine by me.

However, a few points ... 1. I do think that it really doesn't happen 1/10th as much as you'd assume. My PCP for 20 years was a DO and I had no clue until I started researching osteopathic medicine. He wore a white coat with DO on it, had Tom Smith, DO written on things, his degree from X College of Osteopathic Medicine on the wall, I like to think I'm a pretty observant guy, and still ... never even noticed it. 2. I always consider something else, and that is the field you go into/residency you complete. Let me explain, because that made no sense ... even if you assume that no one in the world knows what a DO is, it's pretty safe to assume that everyone (god hopefully) knows what a surgeon, dermatologist, OB/GYN, etc, is. Now, I think that anyone who knows what these 'things' are, also know that you have to be a doctor to also be a dermatologist. Ergo, if I'm a DO dermatologist ... a patient isn't going to see me as a DO, they are going to see me as a dermatologist. I guess this argument gets muddled when you have mini nurse residencies, techs walking around in white coats, and PAs that specialize in different fields ... but what doesn't get muddled at that point? Haha. Good post though!!
 
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