Do Schools Know where else you've been accepted?

[REL]

Just to let you know: If a school has "accepted" you they can now see where else you have been accepted as of late last week. A school cannot see where applicants "not accepted" have been accepted as of this time -- this will probably be available in about a month.

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[Saluki]

Just to let you know: If a school has "accepted" you they can now see where else you have been accepted as of late last week. A school cannot see where applicants "not accepted" have been accepted as of this time -- this will probably be available in about a month.

When that comes available, will it show all the places we have been accepted to or simply the acceptances we are still holding?

 

[deuist]

Just to let you know: If a school has "accepted" you they can now see where else you have been accepted as of late last week. A school cannot see where applicants "not accepted" have been accepted as of this time -- this will probably be available in about a month.

Rel,

Do you ever use this information? Have you ever thought, this guy was accepted to University of State; I guess we can drop him from our waitlist?

 

[FictionalGirl]

Rel, I have had a question driving me crazy and since you've been giving such insights into this topic i was hoping you could help me with a similar topic.

I was accepted into one med school of the nine i filled out secondaries for. I'm finishing my senior year in college right now and for the last year have been working on a book. I received a grant to start the book and its grown and grown into a novel thats starting to get there. here is the thing. I really want to complete this book, as my 2 dreams are writing and medicine. I want to devote my life to being a doctor, but i'm worried i'll hate myself if i don't finish the book. I was offered a scholarship to a good mfa program in fiction where i can take 2 years and finish the novel, publish it, and then move on to med school and never look back. my question is... if i give up my only acceptance to finish this, will schools see that i did this and never accept me when i re-apply in a year? will they think... oh since she turned down an acceptance once, giving her a spot will be too risky?

this isn't a case of "i don't know if i want to be a doctor." i do want it to be my life, i've thought long and hard about it, but this novel and the 2 years completing it would just be the completion of my other big dream. Can I get your opinion? I've been told my odds of getting in again are slim or damaged if i do this. I know that since i don't want to do anything to jeopardize my chances of being a doctor i should just go straight to med school, but this is the culmination of a lifelong dream/study of writing. i plan on writing once i'm a doctor (oliver sacks is my idol) but... now that i've rambled, can i get your opinion? no one seems to understand that my desire to devote myself to medicine isn't in question. I don't want a lifetime teaching english. i just would like to know if taking the 2 years to complete my book is feasible or disastrous to the rest of my life as a physician. I didn't apply for the mfa first and just wait on the med school app because of people telling me med schools would frown upon my sidetrack and think i wasn't serious (i was a biochem major in college). Help!!! I'm loosing my mind and could use the intelligent advice

 

[dajimmers]

Rel, I have had a question driving me crazy and since you've been giving such insights into this topic i was hoping you could help me with a similar topic....

Any chance you could defer matriculation until the book was done? Or is the school not interested in granting deferals for this purpose?

 

[FictionalGirl]

i may ask for a one year deferral for it. but the thing is, it really needs the guidance of a few professionals to put it in a sellable format, and work on cleaning it up, working on the whole of it... when I looked for that help, i was given the option of the mfa. that is unfortunately 2 years at minimum. There, i'd be able to work one on one twice a week with a writing prof, and it seems that the help is not easy to come by if you're not in the program. There is actually an mfa program at the college where i'm going to med school and i tried to convince the teachers there to maybe help me out once in a while while i'm in my first year, just looking over things and i could do it slowly over 4 years, but they said they were too busy with their mfa students. (there was one 1 yr. prog at johns hopkins but they just upped it to two). My school only grants one year deferrals. *sigh*
it is a good idea though, and you'd think somebody would be able to help me, but i think it comes down to the almighty $. if i'm not enrolled in an mfa, and they help me, they don't get my tuition money. thanks, dajimmers

 

[NapeSpikes]

Just to let you know: If a school has "accepted" you they can now see where else you have been accepted as of late last week. A school cannot see where applicants "not accepted" have been accepted as of this time -- this will probably be available in about a month.

So in one month, do schools have to make a final decision before they see where you are accepted, or can they see this info before they make a decision on you?

 

[ChocolateKiss]

Just to let you know: If a school has "accepted" you they can now see where else you have been accepted as of late last week. A school cannot see where applicants "not accepted" have been accepted as of this time -- this will probably be available in about a month.

How does that work? Is it an "honor code" type situation where a school says "yes, I've accepted this person," and then gets to look at that person's other acceptances? Or does the school have to somehow officially accept an applicant and enter that acceptance into a database that can't be changed before the school sees the other acceptances?

 

[idillio06]

Just to let you know: If a school has "accepted" you they can now see where else you have been accepted as of late last week. A school cannot see where applicants "not accepted" have been accepted as of this time -- this will probably be available in about a month.

Thanks for all your advice so far! About the acceptances - at one of my interviews, the dean of admissions said that his school doesn't like people who hold onto multiple acceptances. I thought May 15 was the deadline for dropping all schools except one. Does the fact that schools can see where else you've gotten in affect your chances for aid, scholarships, etc. negatively? (ie what if you were holding a couple of acceptances while waiting for financial aid award letters, which don't come out until April?)

Thanks!

 

[REL]

When that comes available, will it show all the places we have been accepted to or simply the acceptances we are still holding?

When schools get to see where all applicants to their program have been accepted, it will only be to the acceptances you are currently holding. If you cancelled an acceptance it will disappear from the list.

 

[REL]

Rel,

Do you ever use this information? Have you ever thought, this guy was accepted to University of State; I guess we can drop him from our waitlist?

Being a competitive person myself I use this data simply to know where an applicant has been accepted. It affects no decisions in any way here. If you are accepted here, you are accepted until you make a decision not to be accepted. If you are on our wait list and are next and have been accepted by the top 5 (whoever they are) med schools in the nation, we will offer an acceptance because you are next. The integrity of the system is what it's all about; no smoke and mirrors; no games.

 

[REL]

Rel, I have had a question driving me crazy and since you've been giving such insights into this topic i was hoping you could help me with a similar topic.

I was accepted into one med school of the nine i filled out secondaries for. I'm finishing my senior year in college right now and for the last year have been working on a book. I received a grant to start the book and its grown and grown into a novel thats starting to get there. here is the thing. I really want to complete this book, as my 2 dreams are writing and medicine. I want to devote my life to being a doctor, but i'm worried i'll hate myself if i don't finish the book. I was offered a scholarship to a good mfa program in fiction where i can take 2 years and finish the novel, publish it, and then move on to med school and never look back. my question is... if i give up my only acceptance to finish this, will schools see that i did this and never accept me when i re-apply in a year? will they think... oh since she turned down an acceptance once, giving her a spot will be too risky?

this isn't a case of "i don't know if i want to be a doctor." i do want it to be my life, i've thought long and hard about it, but this novel and the 2 years completing it would just be the completion of my other big dream. Can I get your opinion? I've been told my odds of getting in again are slim or damaged if i do this. I know that since i don't want to do anything to jeopardize my chances of being a doctor i should just go straight to med school, but this is the culmination of a lifelong dream/study of writing. i plan on writing once i'm a doctor (oliver sacks is my idol) but... now that i've rambled, can i get your opinion? no one seems to understand that my desire to devote myself to medicine isn't in question. I don't want a lifetime teaching english. i just would like to know if taking the 2 years to complete my book is feasible or disastrous to the rest of my life as a physician. I didn't apply for the mfa first and just wait on the med school app because of people telling me med schools would frown upon my sidetrack and think i wasn't serious (i was a biochem major in college). Help!!! I'm loosing my mind and could use the intelligent advice

Personally I say write the book (as long as it isnt REL's Foibles On The Internet). Ask the school where you are accepted for a deferment (some schools will give a 2 year deferment). If only one year, take the year and then see if you can end the book in a year or maybe convince the school to extend your deferment. If they wont, then reapply. If you have to reapply you must address that med is your goal in a convincing manner. You will also need to address a concern by the committee that you have been away from academics for awhile and most schools only consider an MCAT good for 3 years. If you have strong numbers you can probably press on with little recourse. If your numbers are less strong, it may be that you might be best served by taking a 1 year MS in a basic science area to prove yourself (and also prep for another MCAT). If you choose to write the book, one way to show your continued interest in med is to continue some med volunteering and maybe some shadowing too. Your two year book delay may turn into a three year delay to enhance your academics. I suspect that you can have both.

 

[REL]

i may ask for a one year deferral for it. but the thing is, it really needs the guidance of a few professionals to put it in a sellable format, and work on cleaning it up, working on the whole of it... when I looked for that help, i was given the option of the mfa. that is unfortunately 2 years at minimum. There, i'd be able to work one on one twice a week with a writing prof, and it seems that the help is not easy to come by if you're not in the program. There is actually an mfa program at the college where i'm going to med school and i tried to convince the teachers there to maybe help me out once in a while while i'm in my first year, just looking over things and i could do it slowly over 4 years, but they said they were too busy with their mfa students. (there was one 1 yr. prog at johns hopkins but they just upped it to two). My school only grants one year deferrals. *sigh*
it is a good idea though, and you'd think somebody would be able to help me, but i think it comes down to the almighty $. if i'm not enrolled in an mfa, and they help me, they don't get my tuition money. thanks, dajimmers

Ok, now that I read this, you have answered some of my questions. Take the 1 year deferral and see where you are one year from now. If the book continues to be on a successful course, appeal for an exception to defer a second year. If they dont it may cost you another year of academics as previously stated, but as long as you continue some med vol, etc., you are still demonstrating motivation toward medicine.

 

[REL]

So in one month, do schools have to make a final decision before they see where you are accepted, or can they see this info before they make a decision on you?

If they use a ranked listing the decision is automatic. I guess because of our system I dont fully comprehend why a program would look to see where you have been accepted in making their own decision. I love to make offers to those accepted to other schools just to see if you will come, I dont care where you have been accepted. There are so many things which influence an applicant's decision that a school has to make the offer when it is due.

 

[REL]

Thanks for all your advice so far! About the acceptances - at one of my interviews, the dean of admissions said that his school doesn't like people who hold onto multiple acceptances. I thought May 15 was the deadline for dropping all schools except one. Does the fact that schools can see where else you've gotten in affect your chances for aid, scholarships, etc. negatively? (ie what if you were holding a couple of acceptances while waiting for financial aid award letters, which don't come out until April?)

Thanks!

As a matter of ettiquette I suggest that applicants be kind to one-another and drop any acceptances to programs that they know they will not attend; make some decisions early so that others can be accepted too. According to the AAMC Traffic Rules applicants are allowed to keep multiple acceptances until May 15. While a school may express their opinion, there is nothing that they can do about that if they are a member school. I dont believe that any school will hold up financial offerings because you havent made a decision. If they do, it may be a matter for the AAMC to address to that program. If you have accepted a school and have met all of the deadlines and requirements of the offer, they cant drop you. You have the hammer, you make the final decisions. There may be some unethical admissions groups out there, but I am not aware of them and I am sure that the AAMC would be interested if there is any proof. I hope this answers your question.l

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

As a matter of ettiquette I suggest that applicants be kind to one-another and drop any acceptances to programs that they know they will not attend; make some decisions early so that others can be accepted too. According to the AAMC Traffic Rules applicants are allowed to keep multiple acceptances until May 15. While a school may express their opinion, there is nothing that they can do about that if they are a member school. I dont believe that any school will hold up financial offerings because you havent made a decision. If they do, it may be a matter for the AAMC to address to that program. If you have accepted a school and have met all of the deadlines and requirements of the offer, they cant drop you. You have the hammer, you make the final decisions. There may be some unethical admissions groups out there, but I am not aware of them and I am sure that the AAMC would be interested if there is any proof. I hope this answers your question.l

To me, it seems that holding an acceptance in this system can only be a positive for financial aid decisions. it seems like it can potentially confer financial aid "bargaining power" to applicants with multiple acceptances. I know wheeling-and-dealing for financial aid in this sort of way can happen with other types of graduate programs, but is it really uncommon and even unethical for medical school admissions?

 

[MNsocsci]

To me, it seems that holding an acceptance in this system can only be a positive for financial aid decisions. it seems like it can potentially confer financial aid "bargaining power" to applicants with multiple acceptances. I know wheeling-and-dealing for financial aid in this sort of way can happen with other types of graduate programs, but is it really uncommon and even unethical for medical school admissions?

bump

I was curious about this too. I heard that if a school sees you have multiple acceptances, they are more likely to offer you scholarships to entice you to go there. Is this true? I feel bad holding on to an acceptance at a place I wouldn't go, tho.

 

[drchekhov]

To me, it seems that holding an acceptance in this system can only be a positive for financial aid decisions. it seems like it can potentially confer financial aid "bargaining power" to applicants with multiple acceptances. I know wheeling-and-dealing for financial aid in this sort of way can happen with other types of graduate programs, but is it really uncommon and even unethical for medical school admissions?

Agreed that two or three acceptances could help you leverage financial aid (I've watched friends pull some crazy stuff for grad school), but I think there are diminishing returns for each additional acceptance. You can play School B off of School A's fin aid offer, but then if you get an even better offer from School C, I doubt B will upgrade you much more, and so on. Most of the schools we're talking about probably have limited scholarship resources; this isn't like undergrad where there's much, much more flux among applicants and a much larger number of scholarships.

Also, I kind of doubt a med school would raise your package multiple times if you try to play several other acceptances off them. If they were wanted to entice you a large scholarship, wouldn't they try to do it early? Or, if one large scholarship opens up because the person they initially offered it to chose to go elsewhere, wouldn't they assign it to you, their favorite alternate, pretty quickly?

I'm not saying that this process doesn't have benefits, but I think kindness to others and streamlining the process should encourage people to give up some spots early at schools they definitely won't attend, and to be prompt in threshing choices after fin aid packages arrive in April. 'Cause I doubt that Penn's going to upgrade you multiple times when you play them off with Miami, then LSU. If they Penn wants you badly, they'd offer you solid money initially or after your first leverage attempt.

Just my thoughts. As always, this process is so opaque that we're probably all waaay off base!

 

[REL]

Agreed that two or three acceptances could help you leverage financial aid (I've watched friends pull some crazy stuff for grad school), but I think there are diminishing returns for each additional acceptance. You can play School B off of School A's fin aid offer, but then if you get an even better offer from School C, I doubt B will upgrade you much more, and so on. Most of the schools we're talking about probably have limited scholarship resources; this isn't like undergrad where there's much, much more flux among applicants and a much larger number of scholarships.

Also, I kind of doubt a med school would raise your package multiple times if you try to play several other acceptances off them. If they were wanted to entice you a large scholarship, wouldn't they try to do it early? Or, if one large scholarship opens up because the person they initially offered it to chose to go elsewhere, wouldn't they assign it to you, their favorite alternate, pretty quickly?

I'm not saying that this process doesn't have benefits, but I think kindness to others and streamlining the process should encourage people to give up some spots early at schools they definitely won't attend, and to be prompt in threshing choices after fin aid packages arrive in April. 'Cause I doubt that Penn's going to upgrade you multiple times when you play them off with Miami, then LSU. If they Penn wants you badly, they'd offer you solid money initially or after your first leverage attempt.

Just my thoughts. As always, this process is so opaque that we're probably all waaay off base!

Only from my experience - there is little to this in MOST cases. State schools for example have little money to play with so increasing a package is rarely possible. As well, from what I can gather, many private institutions usually allocate what they have. If it comes to pass that some dont accept, they may have a little extra to play with, but generally, in my experience, I have seen very little of this. There are so many well qualified applicants that I dont see it as being much of a factor UNLESS you are ULTRA-qualified AND there is money to offer.

 

[drchekhov]

Only from my experience - there is little to this in MOST cases. State schools for example have little money to play with so increasing a package is rarely possible. As well, from what I can gather, many private institutions usually allocate what they have. If it comes to pass that some dont accept, they may have a little extra to play with, but generally, in my experience, I have seen very little of this. There are so many well qualified applicants that I dont see it as being much of a factor UNLESS you are ULTRA-qualified AND there is money to offer.

Hence my message, REL; I was trying to convey the same idea, I think. Sorry if it got lost in the writing.

Immediately after my post, I began to think more about the numbers. Leveraging may work in humanities grad school applications (what I'm most familiar with) because prestigious programs will be trying to fill around ten places each year. If one instution has a fair endowment, then it's not inconceivable for it to use this to fund all their (excellent) candidates. Leveraging may work at undergrad institutions because they tend to have large incoming classes (assuring fundraising to support a few very half- or full scholarships), but will be offer the great financial aid to only a few ultra-qualified scholarships. (Think about the Ivy model: those who can afford it pay through the nose in order to fund a decent number of URMs and geniuses.) But med schools work with a rather small student body (supposedly 80-200 students is the middle 75%, right?); this likely isn't a sufficiently large body to support a number of large scholarships. And most gifts to med schools and their endowments go straight to research, never even coming close to student financial aid.

Think about the numbers, people—they're so tight that you're probably not going to leverage much additional financial aid.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

it seems like the best leverage potential (and what i had been hypothetically pondering) would be using acceptances from highly-ranked schools for more grant money from schools of equal (if you're "ultra-qualified," as rel states--these schools seem generally to have more money to throw around anyway, if you look at msar) or lesser "rank" (and also with some money to toss around, as rel points out--most likely well-endowed, lower-ranked, private universities, but probably not many of these). i never imagined leveraging a substantially lower-ranked school for more money from a higher-ranked school--i don't see that working.

of course, i do think the most efficient and perhaps equitable (if we consider that the more people are waitlisted and only later accepted (but withdraw in the meantime), the more people end up at places where they are less well-matched on n dimensions) is for people to just turn down options they know they won't attend as they come up.

at the same time, if i had known about bargaining potential when picking a grad school, i probably could have ended up with more money. but there are just different numbers in the process, as drchekhov points out.