Do some schools give II without reading personal statements?

[calipremed5768]

I’m beginning to think I have a red flag in my personal statement and the IIs I got were from schools that only read it post interview. Reason being is that I have now gotten 6 hard rejections and most of my schools haven’t given me II despite sending MASSIVE amounts out.

Inb4: patience is a virtue the need for instant gratification is not.

Just curious if maybe my PS has a red flag.

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[Schwifty]

Not an expert, but I don’t think schools give out II without reading your PS first. Also, what is the red flag? (If you don’t mind sharing) cause missing a comma or something like that isn’t really a red flag

 

[Bonne Nuit]

You know what, I don’t have anything else going on right now. If you want to PM me your statement I’ll take a look and give you my honest feedback.

 

[rx001]

Your application is 15 page document. A red flag for one can be a yellow flag for some body else and for one with different interpretation it can be a green flag. Main bottom line should be your stats and may be 10 to 20 percent weightage should be given to your ecs. I am puzzled to see PS/secondaries can be make or break your application. Any body who has good creative writing skills can come up with good ps and secondaries. Those who have worked hard to reach this stage if he cant present well he will be struggling to get interviews.

The concept of well roundedness how is it measured. You cant quantify one EC being better than the other based on just personal statment and secondaries. I agree Interviews tell a whole lot about the person but for me judging on PS and secondaries does not look accurate for me.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

I’m beginning to think I have a red flag in my personal statement and the IIs I got were from schools that only read it post interview. Reason being is that I have now gotten 6 hard rejections and most of my schools haven’t given me II despite sending MASSIVE amounts out.

Inb4: patience is a virtue the need for instant gratification is not.

Just curious if maybe my PS has a red flag.

Were your hard Rs from state schools or private? Mind sharing (you can PM if you want)?

 

[calipremed5768]

Well part of it intertwines how religious faith inspired me to pursue medicine and I talk about difficulty with certain subjects accompanying this connection that could be polarizing

 

[calipremed5768]

VCU, EVMS, WVU, Nebraska, Missouri (post ties statement), Pitt

 

[KnightDoc]

Well part of it intertwines how religious faith inspired me to pursue medicine and I talk about difficulty with certain subjects accompanying this connection that could be polarizing

With all due respect (I really do love your posts, and am pretty sure you have some bet going on regarding what you have to do to get yourself permanently banned ), are you really asking if writing a polarizing PS might be related to receiving a disproportionate number of early Rs? If so, that's not a red flag; that's daring them to invite you for an interview, and there is no way you wouldn't know that, so I'm betting there's no way you actually did that!!! Nobody as socially awkward as you claim to be would have the self awareness to realize that his polarizing PS was polarizing.

 

[calipremed5768]

I’m a big sports gambling hobby when I can and used to make good money playing online poker before they rigged it so I guess that’s true

 

[calipremed5768]

I already got banned like Thursday I think. Thought it was permanent but was pleasantly surprised today.

 

[deleted987519]

I already got banned like Thursday I think. Thought it was permanent but was pleasantly surprised today.

You are so hard to root for

 

[KnightDoc]

I already got banned like Thursday I think. Thought it was permanent but was pleasantly surprised today.

Please don't get yourself banned. Consider it a challenge to see how provocative you can be while coloring within the lines.

 

[907914]

Please don't get yourself banned. Consider it a challenge to see how provocative you can be while coloring within the lines.

This is the path of the Elmo man.

 

[RJ McReady]

I’m a big sports gambling hobby when I can and used to make good money playing online poker before they rigged it so I guess that’s true

Over/under on calipremed getting banned: 21 days.
Im on the under for a dime...

 

[deleted804295]

I’m beginning to think I have a red flag in my personal statement and the IIs I got were from schools that only read it post interview. Reason being is that I have now gotten 6 hard rejections and most of my schools haven’t given me II despite sending MASSIVE amounts out.

Inb4: patience is a virtue the need for instant gratification is not.

Just curious if maybe my PS has a red flag.

You applied to schools that yield protect with a high GPA and a high MCAT. We told you why it was a bad idea. You didn't listen. Bear the fruit of your choices.

 

[deleted804295]

Over/under on calipremed getting banned: 21 days.
Im on the under for a dime...

I'd be kinda sad without calipremed here ngl.

 

[dr_kateb]

You are so hard to root for

Really? There’s no one on here I hope gets in more than OP.

 

[KnightDoc]

You applied to schools that yield protect with a high GPA and a high MCAT. We told you why it was a bad idea. You didn't listen. Bear the fruit of your choices.

I really think you need to take all of his posts with a huge grain of salt. I'm pretty sure that isn't his actual school list, and his posted results aren't real either. Most, if not all, of his posts are designed just to get a reaction, which we all happily oblige, which is what makes them so sublime.

 

[honeybee87]

I am somewhat astounded by the implied expectations that many premeds have so let me throw some cold water on this

1) any individual med school gets 5,000+ applications and have slots for at most 1,000 interview slots. Therefore 80%+ of applicant must be rejected prior to any II
2) with over 900,000 individual applications filed to a 150 programs and only in aggregate have at absolute max 150,000 interview slots mean only somewhere between 15%-20% of application get marked for action such as II.
3) just under 50% of matriculants get a single acceptance. Of the 100% who apply
60% get rejected
10% get single interview, single acceptance
10% get multiple interview, single acceptance
20% get multiple interviews, multiple acceptance
4) it is still VERY early in the processing cycle. Most schools are still below staffing levela for summer. With 5,000+ applications and the ability to only evaluate at max 500 a week when fully staffed. So it can take 1-4 months (yes I said months) to process, evaluate and review the majority of submissions
5) this is an Olympic class event where among the best only the 3 top people get medals.
6) any applicant who has more than 1 II this early in the cycle should be very thankful and not become a paranoid OCD premed.
7

You didn’t answer ops question

 

[907914]

emotions are labile.

 

[Seihai]

I am somewhat astounded by the implied expectations that many premeds have so let me throw some cold water on this

1) any individual med school gets 5,000+ applications and have slots for at most 1,000 interview slots. Therefore 80%+ of applicant must be rejected prior to any II
2) with over 900,000 individual applications filed to a 150 programs and only in aggregate have at absolute max 150,000 interview slots mean only somewhere between 15%-20% of application get marked for action such as II.
3) just under 50% of matriculants get a single acceptance. Of the 100% who apply
60% get rejected
10% get single interview, single acceptance
10% get multiple interview, single acceptance
20% get multiple interviews, multiple acceptance
4) it is still VERY early in the processing cycle. Most schools are still below staffing levela for summer. With 5,000+ applications and the ability to only evaluate at max 500 a week when fully staffed. So it can take 1-4 months (yes I said months) to process, evaluate and review the majority of submissions
5) this is an Olympic class event where among the best only the 3 top people get medals.
6) any applicant who has more than 1 II this early in the cycle should be very thankful and not become a paranoid OCD premed.
7

7... 7 is what?! I must know!

I'm also curious to know if these numbers scale down nicely to MD-PhD - that is, is it just a scaling factor on a global basis (obviously on an individual school level it will vary wildly) or are the numbers distinct even when pooling the data for all of the schools? I'd kind of expect the latter because the procedures/admissions seem to be wildly variable/different compared to MD.

Regarding #6, I think it should also be noted that any applicant with no IIs in the cycle to date should not be concerned (no matter how implied it is by #1-5). People like OP don't seem able to read between the lines and understand implications or draw conclusions, as evidenced by a select few on this thread.

 

[deleted972488]

I love this thread.

 

[907914]

Elmo is a case study in lability. After having called so much attention to himself, many watch with keen inteest.

And as Elmo knows, I have more than a ringside seat.

Nah, I have been fairly consistent in being
1) Naive but willing to learn
2) wholly willing to share what I learn
3) Invested in sharing dank memage and smartassery.

Although, this does raise an interesting point - if an ADCOM, screener, or student interviewer does recognize someone off of SDN or Reddit or whatever based on their application, is there ever any follow through? Like, I know it has obviously happened from Facebook and the like, but an anonymous forum?

 

[Seihai]

Nah, I have been fairly consistent in being
1) Naive but willing to learn
2) wholly willing to share what I learn
3) Invested in sharing dank memage and smartsssery.

Although, this does raise an interesting point - if an ADCOM, screener, or student interviewer does recognize someone off of SDN or Reddit or whatever based on their application, is there ever any follow through? Like, I know it has obviously happened from Facebook and the like, but an anonymous forum?

Probability would dictate that it's extremely unlikely that anyone would even remember enough of your application to recognize you on SDN (assuming they even HAVE access to enough information, since screeners may only get pieces of your app), much less the fact that they'd have to be on SDN and paying attention to all of your posts in the first place. I think it's unlikely enough that it's not worth worrying about, unless you've advertised your exact information so many times that every person who has interacted with you knows exactly what they are.

And even if someone did recognize you on SDN, I wonder how many people would actually care to look through your posts.

 

[KnightDoc]

Nah, I have been fairly consistent in being
1) Naive but willing to learn
2) wholly willing to share what I learn
3) Invested in sharing dank memage and smartsssery.

Although, this does raise an interesting point - if an ADCOM, screener, or student interviewer does recognize someone off of SDN or Reddit or whatever based on their application, is there ever any follow through? Like, I know it has obviously happened from Facebook and the like, but an anonymous forum?

It's a little late to worry about it 5500 posts into your SDN career! The bottom line is that it's easy to lose yourself posting on an anonymous forum, and there is always a chance you will provide a little more information than you intended, and there is always a chance something will come back to bite you.

Yes, it's a very tiny chance that anyone will recognize you, but it's not zero, and if it concerns you, the only solution is to not post. Honestly, if you offend someone with power over your application, and they believe with a high degree of confidence that they can identify you, you don't really expect them to ignore it because this isn't Facebook and they don't know 1,000% that it's you, do you? I'm sure among the 30,000 applicants rejected every year are plenty whose sins are less than being a suspected offensive person on SDN.

 

[LizzyM]

Do schools send secondaries before reading the personal statement? Yes, yes they do. Many of them send the secondary to everyone with the hope of snagging the largest possible pool from which to choose. Being very selective "looks good" and to be very selective you need to have lots of people apply. This is a sick and twisted system. Hate the game, don't hate player.

BTW, I'm listening to a Malcolm Gladwell podcast called Tortise and the Hare. (Revisionist History is the name of his podcast series and I listen on Spotify.) It is about the LSAT and law school admissions and there are so many parallels to med school admissions I don't whether to laugh or cry... on the other hand, law is much different and T14 means far more in law than in medicine for which I am thankful.

 

[Seihai]

Do schools send secondaries before reading the personal statement? Yes, yes they do. Many of them send the secondary to everyone with the hope of snagging the largest possible pool from which to choose. Being very selective "looks good" and to be very selective you need to have lots of people apply. This is a sick and twisted system. Hate the game, don't hate player.

BTW, I'm listening to a Malcolm Gladwell podcast called Tortise and the Hare. (Revisionist History is the name of his podcast series and I listen on Spotify.) It is about the LSAT and law school admissions and there are so many parallels to med school admissions I don't whether to laugh or cry... on the other hand, law is much different and T14 means far more in law than in medicine for which I am thankful.

The LSAT score also being the basis by which full-ride tuition scholarships are given out at a lot of schools makes the law school admissions process almost more neurotic than the med school admissions process. I used to be interested in law school, and even though I'm not interested in it anymore, I keep in touch with some of my prelaw friends, and the stress they go through far, far exceeds that of some premeds.

The grades matter less, but in exchange, everything else matters so much more.

 

[deleted962973]

I love this thread.

I love every calipremed thread

 

[LizzyM]

The LSAT score also being the basis by which full-ride tuition scholarships are given out at a lot of schools makes the law school admissions process almost more neurotic than the med school admissions process. I used to be interested in law school, and even though I'm not interested in it anymore, I keep in touch with some of my prelaw friends, and the stress they go through far, far exceeds that of some premeds.

The grades matter less, but in exchange, everything else matters so much more.

T-14 graduation is the basis for most federal clerkship and supreme court clerkships although, as Gladwell demonstrates with examples, it is not the way to choose the best candidates.

 

[Seihai]

T-14 graduation is the basis for most federal clerkship and supreme court clerkships although, as Gladwell demonstrates with examples, it is not the way to choose the best candidates.

Gladwell's books have always been interesting to me - I read Blink and Outliers. I think he has a lot of valuable insights into how our society and environment tends to shape success and how self-determinism isn't necessarily the right way to view success (that is, people aren't totally in control of all of the factors that make them successful).

More schools and upper-level positions should consider these factors, and I think medical schools are making somewhat of a shift to this with more holistic reviews, but professional positions and jobs only get an extremely limited view of any of their job applicants (and the culture may encourage people to deemphasize challenges that they faced).

 

[mwsapphire]

I am somewhat astounded by the implied expectations that many premeds have so let me throw some cold water on this

1) any individual med school gets 5,000+ applications and have slots for at most 1,000 interview slots. Therefore 80%+ of applicant must be rejected prior to any II
2) with over 900,000 individual applications filed to a 150 programs and only in aggregate have at absolute max 150,000 interview slots mean only somewhere between 15%-20% of application get marked for action such as II.
3) just under 50% of matriculants get a single acceptance. Of the 100% who apply
60% get rejected
10% get single interview, single acceptance
10% get multiple interview, single acceptance
20% get multiple interviews, multiple acceptance
4) it is still VERY early in the processing cycle. Most schools are still below staffing levela for summer. With 5,000+ applications and the ability to only evaluate at max 500 a week when fully staffed. So it can take 1-4 months (yes I said months) to process, evaluate and review the majority of submissions
5) this is an Olympic class event where among the best only the 3 top people get medals.
6) any applicant who has more than 1 II this early in the cycle should be very thankful and not become a paranoid OCD premed. Most applicants do not get any interviews

How many of those 5k applications are " fluff" at any MD/DO school ie. below tenth percentile for MCAT and/or GPA, applying without clinical experience , etc.? I always like looking at the AAMC data tables and it seems like if you're within range for stats then your acceptance rate is higher than the 40-50 percent we see.

 

[907914]

How many of those 5k applications are " fluff" at any MD/DO school ie. below tenth percentile for MCAT and/or GPA, applying without clinical experience , etc.? I always like looking at the AAMC data tables and it seems like if you're within range for stats then your acceptance rate is higher than the 40-50 percent we see.

Not necessarily. Even looking at top MD schools, only around 320 520+ MCAT students matriculate at a T10 school, roughly 20%. Let’s say that twice as many people were accepted but chose to matriculate at a non T10 school, this means that the acceptance rate at top institutions even of high stats people is still less than 40%.

 

[Goro]

I’m beginning to think I have a red flag in my personal statement and the IIs I got were from schools that only read it post interview. Reason being is that I have now gotten 6 hard rejections and most of my schools haven’t given me II despite sending MASSIVE amounts out.

Inb4: patience is a virtue the need for instant gratification is not.

Just curious if maybe my PS has a red flag.

Why would they send out an II for a limited amount of spots without doing due diligence, like seeing if you can actually write a PS?

If SDNers believe that schools simply send out IIs based upon stats alone, they are, well, delusional.\

There's data out there that suggests that people online personas are close to their real life ones, and so I strongly believe that your app reflects who you are, cali. You also may have a bad LOR, which wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[Mouzer]

T-14 graduation is the basis for most federal clerkship and supreme court clerkships although, as Gladwell demonstrates with examples, it is not the way to choose the best candidates.

A pre-law friend of mine told me that occasionally, UT Austin (typically rank 15) will sometimes outplace Georgetown (typically rank 14), in which case the top law schools stop being the t-14 and become the t-13 + Georgetown. I never looked into it but I always got a kick out of the idea of law schools being that petty.

 

[Goro]

Do schools send secondaries before reading the personal statement? Yes, yes they do. Many of them send the secondary to everyone with the hope of snagging the largest possible pool from which to choose. Being very selective "looks good" and to be very selective you need to have lots of people apply. This is a sick and twisted system. Hate the game, don't hate player.

OP was asking if schools send IIs, not secondaries, good Miss M!

How many of those 5k applications are " fluff" at any MD/DO school ie. below tenth percentile for MCAT and/or GPA, applying without clinical experience , etc.? I always like looking at the AAMC data tables and it seems like if you're within range for stats then your acceptance rate is higher than the 40-50 percent we see.

Based upon PMs with Adcoms from several different schools, the number ranges from 20-50%

 

[calipremed5768]

I now have 6 Rs and 3 IIs waiting to here from like 35 more

 

[LizzyM]

Tripped up by the abbreviation! My school would not send a interview invite without someone reading the PS, unless the application is assigned to a lazy reviewer who is going to look at the numbers, salivate and say "interview now before this one get's away". Highly unusual but I could see it happening.

 

[907914]

Tripped up by the abbreviation! My school would not send a interview invite without someone reading the PS, unless the application is assigned to a lazy reviewer who is going to look at the numbers, salivate and say "interview now before this one get's away". Highly unusual but I could see it happening.

It is just hearsay, but there was a guy on the UMIch thread yesterday that stated they received an interview before the secondary had been submitted. Keeping that nueroticism at 100.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I now have 6 Rs and 3 IIs waiting to here from like 35 more

Still waiting on that PS, BTW. Can’t wait to see what you’ve put together.

 

[deleted804295]

@HomeSkool you're back!! I missed you.

 

[HomeSkool]

@HomeSkool you're back!! I missed you.

I'm back and making an effort to be regular on here again! I had a sudden and massive increase in my work responsibilities this past year and have been completely swamped. But thank you for the kind words, it's nice to be missed!

 

[honeybee87]

I now have 6 Rs and 3 IIs waiting to here from like 35 more

What schools are your R and when did you submit?

 

[mwsapphire]

Not necessarily. Even looking at top MD schools, only around 320 520+ MCAT students matriculate at a T10 school, roughly 20%. Let’s say that twice as many people were accepted but chose to matriculate at a non T10 school, this means that the acceptance rate at top institutions even of high stats people is still less than 40%.

I didn't mean at any individual program- I meant the overall accetpance rate of people applying to med school. Like how 40 percent if applicants get any acceptancr at all- if you're in range for stats AAMC data indicates the numbers are higher for those people. I mean the aggregate acceptance rate between all schools an applicant applies to ( like between all 10-30 schools).

OP was asking if schools send IIs, not secondaries, good Miss M!



Based upon PMs with Adcoms from several different schools, the number ranges from 20-50%

20-50percent...I'd imagine what programs is that worse at. Like if top schools get more apps that are actually worthy, and if they're the 20 percent. Or if Low tier MD or DO schools get 50 percent fluff bc of how many people think its "just DO and easy to get in.". Hm. This requires a study.

 

[calipremed5768]

Does anybody know if you get judged on interview day by your performance at lunch with current students? Like for example should one try to be charismatic or just relaxed at the lunch thing.

 

[KnightDoc]

Does anybody know if you get judged on interview day by your performance at lunch with current students? Like for example should one try to be charismatic or just relaxed at the lunch thing.

Just be yourself - you wouldn't want to be accepted based on a lie, would you? In fact, you should consider reading selections from your PS just to gage real-time reactions in order to better determine whether you would be comfortable spending time there.

 

[907914]

Does anybody know if you get judged on interview day by your performance at lunch with current students? Like for example should one try to be charismatic or just relaxed at the lunch thing.

I have been thoroughly informed that I should not do my smeagol impression, even if the opportunity presents itself at lunch. I hope that helps.

Edit: And it is a mighty fine Smeagol impression, as a few members on here who have seen my youtube video of it can attest.

 

[deleted804295]

Does anybody know if you get judged on interview day by your performance at lunch with current students? Like for example should one try to be charismatic or just relaxed at the lunch thing.

While I did do the laugh emote I have heard that at some schools you are being interviewed until you step foot off the campus. There have been people rejected for saying offhand things to their tour guide.

For many men and some women, charismatic might register as being cocky. Please don't be cocky. It might turn some people off.

 

[ciestar]

While I did do the laugh emote I have heard that at some schools you are being interviewed until you step foot off the campus. There have been people rejected for saying offhand things to their tour guide.

For many men and some women, charismatic might register as being cocky. Please don't be cocky. It might turn some people off.

Ive done interviews. Yes, you are being judged during lunch, the tour, etc. People get on their phones during lunch or during the tour isn’t a great look.

 

[deleted804295]

Ive done interviews. Yes, you are being judged during lunch, the tour, etc. People get on their phones during lunch or during the tour isn’t a great look.

Phones in hotel room then and just have a watch to keep track of time? I have a nervous habit of checking my phone.

 

[deleted927529]

There's a story somewhere on SDN about an applicant who was being escorted to an interview by a pregnant staff member when said staffer fell--and the applicant's first reaction was annoyance at the inconvenience, not to help her up. They were either rejected post-interview or immediately had their interview cancelled.

Moral: behave like a functioning member of civil society at all times; it is not that hard