Do We Need Another Pod School???

[ucrs]

how can you guys be so sure that western will accept "under qualified students"? Aren't AZPOD's standards alittle higher than others? wouldn't western follow trend and help in raising standards or at least matching AZPOD's? (Im just assuming that their standards are higher....not sure of this since i didn't apply there, but im just going off the love that DMU and AZPOD gets on this board for whatever reason) I would think that alots of "top quality" students would consider western when picking schools, especially when location becomes a factor. who wouldn't want to live in so cal? maybe i have too much cali pride

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[Dr. Gangrene]

how can you guys be so sure that western will accept "under qualified students"? Aren't AZPOD's standards alittle higher than others? wouldn't western follow trend and help in raising standards or at least matching AZPOD's? (Im just assuming that their standards are higher....not sure of this since i didn't apply there, but im just going off the love that DMU and AZPOD gets on this board for whatever reason) I would think that alots of "top quality" students would consider western when picking schools, especially when location becomes a factor. who wouldn't want to live in so cal? maybe i have too much cali pride

The issue is not the quality of students western would take or the quality of education they would offer. The problem lies in the total number of pod students. It was stated earlier, that w/ western, there would not be enough residency spots for all of the students in the (hypothetically 9) schools. Some would not get a residency, and without a residency, you can't practice.

The comment was made that it would be irresponsible to allow this to happen (i.e. let students accumulate 150-200 K in debt, and then not be able to practice because they can't get a residency). I can't think of anything more irresponsible.

So, as I said before, I don't think we need Western right now (or, we could use Western but need to reduce the number of students in all schools) which would require closing a school (do you really thing a school would be willing to close? They are making too much money).

 

[ucrs]

The issue is not the quality of students western would take or the quality of education they would offer. The problem lies in the total number of pod students. It was stated earlier, that w/ western, there would not be enough residency spots for all of the students in the (hypothetically 9) schools. Some would not get a residency, and without a residency, you can't practice.

The comment was made that it would be irresponsible to allow this to happen (i.e. let students accumulate 150-200 K in debt, and then not be able to practice because they can't get a residency). I can't think of anything more irresponsible.

So, as I said before, I don't think we need Western right now (or, we could use Western but need to reduce the number of students in all schools) which would require closing a school (do you really thing a school would be willing to close? They are making too much money).

yea...you are right...residency would definately be a concern. and there is probably no chance that a school would be willing to close. i wonder what the podiatric medical boards like aacpm and other think about this.

 

[ucrs]

do you guys know who develops these residency programs? is it the hospitals that first initate the development or are there other agencies like schools that try? im just curious.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

how can you guys be so sure that western will accept "under qualified students"? Aren't AZPOD's standards alittle higher than others? wouldn't western follow trend and help in raising standards or at least matching AZPOD's? (Im just assuming that their standards are higher....not sure of this since i didn't apply there, but im just going off the love that DMU and AZPOD gets on this board for whatever reason) I would think that alots of "top quality" students would consider western when picking schools, especially when location becomes a factor. who wouldn't want to live in so cal? maybe i have too much cali pride

I don't think that Western would have poor entrance qualifications (similar to what has happened at AZPod). But it will push other schools lower, and some of them will accept just about anyone right now. Just think of it this way, there are about 700-800 applicants with 500 spots right now. That is not that selective and some schools are definitely better than others on selectivity. If that applicant pool stayed the same and Western took 50 more students that would mean about 80% of the applicants were accepted. That is terrible and the results will be terrible.

I would fully support Western, as stated before, if they replaced another school OR (I'm adding this one) if the applicant pool increased substantially.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

do you guys know who develops these residency programs? is it the hospitals that first initate the development or are there other agencies like schools that try? im just curious.

Yes and yes. If a podiatrist was interested, he/she could attempt to create a program at a hospital or large clinic. But some schools also have funds set aside to create new programs or new postions at a preexisting program.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The issue is not the quality of students western would take or the quality of education they would offer. The problem lies in the total number of pod students. It was stated earlier, that w/ western, there would not be enough residency spots for all of the students in the (hypothetically 9) schools. Some would not get a residency, and without a residency, you can't practice.

The comment was made that it would be irresponsible to allow this to happen (i.e. let students accumulate 150-200 K in debt, and then not be able to practice because they can't get a residency). I can't think of anything more irresponsible.

So, as I said before, I don't think we need Western right now (or, we could use Western but need to reduce the number of students in all schools) which would require closing a school (do you really thing a school would be willing to close? They are making too much money).

I think residency is an issue but you said it best that the level of professionalism will suffer if the quality of the student decreases. This is a major concern to me and should be to anyone involved in podiatry. We have fought tooth and nail to get where we are, just to take a step back?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

True. Valid point, but as we speak there are about 5 podiatrists to every 100,000 people in the United States. The country is in need of podiatrists; and with the baby boomers expecting to age and the current diabetic problem in the U.S; there is a steady demand of podiatric medical care.

Its sad really to see so many qualified pre-med students in my college that wouldnt consider podiatry because as they put it, 'we dont want to deal with feet.' In my college, we have a pretty large pre-health/pre-med standing (about 120 of us graduating next spring) yet theres only about 6 pre-podiatry students (including myself). An incredible majority of the pre-me (osteo/allo) are applying only to medical school proper and plan on taking a post bac or finishing an MPH/masters program if they dont get accepted immediately. A several few are considering veterinary medicine and about 15-20 are part of the pre-dental society here. I mean even the pre-chiropractics are more numerous than us, as they number about ~10. lol.

My point is. We need podiatric physicians. It would be great of podiatry schools advertised better; or if undergraduate private liberal arts colleges, like the one i go to start talking about podiatry, optometry, chiropractics, physical therapy, physicians' assistant, instead of the typical MD/DO standard.

Sorry..i ended up ranting.

Best,

I agree and disagree with you. I agree that the AACPM needs to stop wasting money on other BS and actively educate and recruit pre-podiatry students. Until this is done we cannot add another school.

I disagree that we need to add pods b/c of the stats that you mentioned. You must remember some areas are very underserved, mainly rural areas. If you start adding pods, this will not change. Programs to attach pods to underserved areas are a better answer. Another factor is you must count foot and ankle orthopods, wound care phsyicians, ect. in with your stats b/c they will all be working with the same patient population.

Remember medicine is a business if you want to pay back those student loans you want to be in demand not fighting with the other pods in the area for scraps.

 

[calcaneus]

It sounds like just about everyone on this forum agrees to a certain extent. So my question to you more experienced guys is, how do we try to affect this situation? How can young pod students who really want to individually improve and succeed and also want the profession to improve and succeed try and make that happen?

Is there are way to get involved in this debate with a real chance of making an effect?

 

[densmore22]

I'm not sure on the exact ways, but you could contact the APMA or the APMSA (American Podiatric Medical Students Assoc.) and find out what they say and then go from there. You could tell your dean at your school (but I would do it as a class, not individually) because the council of deans has a lot of say on a matter like this and if they know that the students at your school are oppossed to the opening of a new school, then that can persuade. As far as residencies, COTH (Council of Teaching Hospitals) is sort of like the "approval" board or the organization board for residency programs. (I may be wrong on COTH, I'll find out for people if they're interested). But the first 2 are definetly places to start, but not until you are matriculated to the school and get an understanding of how these things are run/mandated.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

It sounds like just about everyone on this forum agrees to a certain extent. So my question to you more experienced guys is, how do we try to affect this situation? How can young pod students who really want to individually improve and succeed and also want the profession to improve and succeed try and make that happen?

Is there are way to get involved in this debate with a real chance of making an effect?

I think that it would be a great idea for pre-pods, pod students, and podiatrists to write the CPME. The contact information is on the CPME website at cpme.org. The CPME is the accrediting body for podiatric colleges, residencies, ect. They will have the final say in all of this, more than the Council of Deans, AACPM, APMA, APMSA, ect.

So be vocal and let them know your disapproval.

 

[SAFOOT]

I don't think that Western would have poor entrance qualifications (similar to what has happened at AZPod). But it will push other schools lower, and some of them will accept just about anyone right now. Just think of it this way, there are about 700-800 applicants with 500 spots right now. That is not that selective and some schools are definitely better than others on selectivity. If that applicant pool stayed the same and Western took 50 more students that would mean about 80% of the applicants were accepted. That is terrible and the results will be terrible.

I would fully support Western, as stated before, if they replaced another school OR (I'm adding this one) if the applicant pool increased substantially.

I agree with this as well and don't forget out of those 700-800 who apply another 200-400 maybe even more apply to POD schools as an absolute backup to MD, DO, Dental Schools, Vet, Pharmacy, so your basically left on the borderline now of not even having enough students to fill the seats. I can't imagine what a mess it was a few years ago. Personally I live very close to western its a great school, and would have went there after credidation etc. if it was open for application and its due mostly because of location most californians prefer to stay down in southern cali and as someone said the second they open it is going to take students away from the other schools. Another huge problem is no one knows what podiatry is. There is just too much ambiguity that needs to be cleared up before a larger population of students can start applying. Right now a majority of people are applying because they've went to a podiatrist or heard it from a friend, which is the same way I learned about podiatry.

 

[densmore22]

I think that it would be a great idea for pre-pods, pod students, and podiatrists to write the CPME. The contact information is on the CPME website at cpme.org. The CPME is the accrediting body for podiatric colleges, residencies, ect. They will have the final say in all of this, more than the Council of Deans, AACPM, APMA, APMSA, ect.

So be vocal and let them know your disapproval.

Totally forgot about CPME, that would definitely be the best first route.

 

[krabmas]

Totally forgot about CPME, that would definitely be the best first route.

The first place to start is an external resolution at the next APMSA meeting. If the APMSA votes against a new school this will carry weight towards the CPME.

The external resolution can be worded however you want. It can even say the the APMSA only supports a new pod school if:

1) another pod school closes

or

2) there is a cap on students at each of the schools (and mention numbers that are less than the current ones)

or

3) After a certain year no podiatry school can be a free standing school. They must merge with a MD or DO school in a fashion similar to DMU and AZPOD - integrated cirruculum not just a name on a piece of paper, or that school will loose its acredidation.

those are just a few examples.

 

[densmore22]

Well....yes and no. Yes, in the respect to that the APMSA represents the views of the students and if the students don't want or express their opinions against a new school opening, then that is a recommendation. It just says officially the matriculated students are against a new school. No, because it's just that, a recommendation to higher up committees. There have been resolutions that have been passed that the CPME/Council of deans/COTH, etc have voted opposite, so it's a gamble, but yes, that would be a decent step in the right direction to stopping a new school from opening up. But what usually happens is someone amends the recommendation or suggests changes to it and that can, not always, change the original intent. I'm stuck on this, I don't know what to do or where to go anymore.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The first place to start is an external resolution at the next APMSA meeting. If the APMSA votes against a new school this will carry weight towards the CPME.

The external resolution can be worded however you want. It can even say the the APMSA only supports a new pod school if:

1) another pod school closes

or

2) there is a cap on students at each of the schools (and mention numbers that are less than the current ones)

or

3) After a certain year no podiatry school can be a free standing school. They must merge with a MD or DO school in a fashion similar to DMU and AZPOD - integrated cirruculum not just a name on a piece of paper, or that school will loose its acredidation.

those are just a few examples.

I would like to see the APMSA bring such a resolution to a vote. But as it has been stated, many resolutions have been ignored in the passed. When will the CPME force schools to publically release the outcomes, or will the Council of Deans ever only accept the MCAT?

If the CPME starts recieving 20 to50 emails a day for the next month, they would listen.

 

[krabmas]

I would like to see the APMSA bring such a resolution to a vote. But as it has been stated, many resolutions have been ignored in the passed. When will the CPME force schools to publically release the outcomes, or will the Council of Deans ever only accept the MCAT?

If the CPME starts recieving 20 to50 emails a day for the next month, they would listen.

The CPME and COTH will never do anything productive in the direction of what you stated above until the gross inbreeding between the associations is addressed. If the council of deans make up the AACPM and the CPME how can they make unbiased decisions? They will neve choose to do anything that is detrimental to their own school even if it is best for the profession. Human nature is looking out for number 1.

 

[krabmas]

Well....yes and no. Yes, in the respect to that the APMSA represents the views of the students and if the students don't want or express their opinions against a new school opening, then that is a recommendation. It just says officially the matriculated students are against a new school. No, because it's just that, a recommendation to higher up committees. There have been resolutions that have been passed that the CPME/Council of deans/COTH, etc have voted opposite, so it's a gamble, but yes, that would be a decent step in the right direction to stopping a new school from opening up. But what usually happens is someone amends the recommendation or suggests changes to it and that can, not always, change the original intent. I'm stuck on this, I don't know what to do or where to go anymore.

I am an alumni of the APMSA so I understand what happens their.
Just because sometimes resolutions fail or get changed does not mean that you should not try. And I understand that it is only a suggestion, but it means more when it is a formal statement than random emails.

 

[densmore22]

I am an alumni of the APMSA so I understand what happens their.
Just because sometimes resolutions fail or get changed does not mean that you should not try. And I understand that it is only a suggestion, but it means more when it is a formal statement than random emails.

My apologies, I did not realize you were a delegate.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

My apologies, I did not realize you were a delegate.

She was the queen.

 

[densmore22]

Holy crap.

 

[jonwill]

She was the queen.

She ruled with an iron fist.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

She ruled with an iron fist.

I heard she had the IPMSA president executed an place her "puppet" in charge of the DMU class of 2007.

 

[ucrs]

so is this situation really being talked about at the respective school or is this just all forum talk??

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

so is this situation really being talked about at the respective school or is this just all forum talk??

They will accept their first student in 2009. http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/prospective/newprograms2.xml

 

[sachiejones]

If you reduce the number of students accepted to one podiatry school, won't that cause the tuition to rise at a reasonable cost since the rest of the students will have to take the brunt of the lost accepted students?

 

[krabmas]

If you reduce the number of students accepted to one podiatry school, won't that cause the tuition to rise at a reasonable cost since the rest of the students will have to take the brunt of the lost accepted students?

that may happen and if the students are smart they would transfer to another school. The prospective students woudl realize the cost discrepency between the schools and choose not to go there effectively closing the schools (after some time) that refuse to step into the future of podiatry.

 

[ucrs]

They will accept their first student in 2009. http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/prospective/newprograms2.xml

I meant.... are current students bringing this issue up in current school meetings and with their apmsa? my bad for the misunderstanding.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I meant.... are current students bringing this issue up in current school meetings and with their apmsa? my bad for the misunderstanding.

Yes. One thing you must understand is that this became offical just recently. Western had it listed in their 10 year plan, but they have made these bigger moves in the last 60 days.

 

[densmore22]

I have yet to hear anything from anyone in my class. I announced it to them also. Since it really won't affect up to and including the class of 2010 (at least right away, maybe 10 years down the road) I don't think the majority of my classmates care. But if I were the class of 2011 and on, I'd be bringing this issue up regularly because residency spots starting for the 2011 class will be getting tighter and tighter and Western opening up will just add to the problems.

 

[SAFOOT]

why 2011? wouldn't it be 2013 since that would be the first year that western students matriculate!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

why 2011? wouldn't it be 2013 since that would be the first year that western students matriculate!

Yes, but the class sizes are getting larger and larger. By the time 2011 comes, PM&S 36 programs will be very competitive. I personally think that this is a good thing, but I would be sure to make sure I choose my school wisely and worked hard.

 

[oncogene]

Yes, but the class sizes are getting larger and larger. By the time 2011 comes, PM&S 36 programs will be very competitive. I personally think that this is a good thing, but I would be sure to make sure I choose my school wisely and worked hard.

I think it is good in the sense that it makes people work harder and strive for higher goals. My problem with the residency issue is that I think all PM&S 24 should be converted to three year programs. If our main goal is to become more uniform as a whole this is the way to do it. At this point we claim to be the best at the foot and ankle but not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon . I just don't see the point of the two year programs. If you elect not to do ankle surgery after training then don't do it. Even the students who come out as lousy surgeons still half to do it in residency the way it is now.Every pod should have the highest standard training.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I think it is good in the sense that it makes people work harder and strive for higher goals. My problem with the residency issue is that I think all PM&S 24 should be converted to three year programs. If our main goal is to become more uniform as a whole this is the way to do it. At this point we claim to be the best at the foot and ankle but not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon . I just don't see the point of the two year programs. If you elect not to do ankle surgery after training then don't do it. Even the students who come out as lousy surgeons still half to do it in residency the way it is now.Every pod should have the highest standard training.

I don't agree with this. Every profession needs a ditch digger.

 

[oncogene]

I don't agree with this. Every profession needs a ditch digger.

which of the other medical specialties has a ditch digger? I can't really think of one. The point is a family practice doc is a family practice doc no matter what they choose to do in practice and same with ortho, gen surg, ect... Maybe your right but in the eyes of public perception as well as that of our colleagues in other specialties standardization would go a long way.I think that our ditch diggers should be the best trained ditch diggers.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

I agree and disagree with you. I agree that the AACPM needs to stop wasting money on other BS and actively educate and recruit pre-podiatry students. Until this is done we cannot add another school.

I disagree that we need to add pods b/c of the stats that you mentioned. You must remember some areas are very underserved, mainly rural areas. If you start adding pods, this will not change. Programs to attach pods to underserved areas are a better answer. Another factor is you must count foot and ankle orthopods, wound care phsyicians, ect. in with your stats b/c they will all be working with the same patient population.

Remember medicine is a business if you want to pay back those student loans you want to be in demand not fighting with the other pods in the area for scraps.

Good point, mate.

 

[Britton]

True; however, “ditch-diggers” is a dab of hyperbole of course to say the least. In any case standardization has limitations. The way some view it, everyone should have equal opportunity at everything and thus champion the degradation of established norms, guidelines, rules and limits. I don’t know if anyone can say for sure if a move from all PM&S-24 to be standardized (converted) to 3-year programs is helpful for the profession. There is no way to completely eliminate the fear of the $150-200 thousand dollar student loan burden but I suspect that many want to become “big-time” surgeons to engage such a debt. In my opinion, this is why there is so much talk about becoming a surgeon and getting a surgical residency, ect. On the alternative take me for instance, I want to work in nursing homes doing routine standard foot care (clip-n-chip, or ditch-digging as some may call it) and not much more. I plan to also teach as an adjunct professor on the side. Those are my plans and I intend to help many old folks along the way (like the DPM’s I have known for years). Like many of you (that are not “Ritchie-Rich”) I am also afraid of the heavy financial burden of Pod school, but by making me learn extra surgical procedures and perform a 3-year residency is over the top for me. I don’t need it to help many people like I intend to do. Now I think it would be better if we could find a way to make Pod school more affordable, or at least find (start) a program to help pay back student loans; without becoming the world’s most skilled foot and ankle podiatric surgeon. I say let the best compete for the spot light, but in the mean time someone’s Nanny and Pappy in the home need their toenails trimmed so they can have a decent standard of living too. Lets be real about all of this.

 

[Feli]

I think it is good in the sense that it makes people work harder and strive for higher goals. My problem with the residency issue is that I think all PM&S 24 should be converted to three year programs. If our main goal is to become more uniform as a whole this is the way to do it. At this point we claim to be the best at the foot and ankle but not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon . I just don't see the point of the two year programs. If you elect not to do ankle surgery after training then don't do it. Even the students who come out as lousy surgeons still half to do it in residency the way it is now. Every pod should have the highest standard training.

Like others, I agree with parts of what you are saying and disagree with others.

All graduating DPMs do not automatically deserve the best PG training. It is a privilege and a job which is applied for - not something which is guaranteed to all. If the number of graduates outnumber the number of residency programs which get the rearfoot case numbers to be a PMS-36, then the less desirable applicants will have to settle for less popular residencies (and/or be very flexible about location).

The competition for top residencies is what makes students "work harder and strive for higher goals." If everyone knew they were getting a similar PMS-36, there would be little competition (except for maybe those programs with a big name director or prime location). If you back up not too far in podiatry's history, top graduates were happy just to be offered any residency. Times have changed, but I feel that the best programs should remain that way today: competed for by the most highly qualified and competent graduates. Again, a good PMS-36 should be strived for, not expected.

As for the "not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon" portion, I believe that is because there is only a limited demand for those services. Not every pod resident has the dexterity to be a good surgeon, and others may lack the knowledge to grasp the literature or work ethic to take call and meet surgeon demands. Not every neurologist is a neurosurgeon, not every dentist is an oral surgeon, not every cardiologist is an interventional cardiologist, etc. Sometimes only the best, brightest, and most capable graduates get a crack at the top training programs. For DPM residencies, there are just not enough level-1 trauma centers to support all current DPM residencies truly providing RF numbers (without having residents double-scrub, count assists as primary surgeon cases, etc), and there is really no need to having every pod graduate learn the complex RF cases if they're not all going to be doing them in their practice.

I think a scored part I NBPME board exam would be interesting for podiatry and the residency selection process. As it stands, all the residencies have to judge candidates by is GPA, but some schools use straight letter grades, some use +/-, and some use 70-100 grading. A numerical board exam score may be able to help to level the playing field for residency candidates and help residencies know what they are getting.

 

[oncogene]

Like others, I agree with parts of what you are saying and disagree with others.

All graduating DPMs do not automatically deserve the best training. It is a privilege and a job which is applied for - not something which is guaranteed to all. If the number of graduates outnumber the number of residency programs which get the rearfoot case numbers to be a PMS-36, then the less desirable applicants will have to settle for lesser residencies (and/or be very flexible about their residency training location).

As for the "not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon" portion, I believe that is because there is only a limited demand for those services. Not every neurologist is a neurosurgeon, not every dentist is an oral surgeon, not every cardiologist is an interventional cardiologist, etc. Sometimes only the best and the brightest graduates get the top training programs.

I think a scored part I NBPME board exam would be interesting for podiatry and the residency selection process. As it stands, all the residencies have to judge candidates by is GPA, but some schools use straight letter grades, some use +/-, and some use 70-100 grading. A numerical board exam score may be able to help to level the playing field for residency candidates and help residencies know what they are getting.

The programs that you mention above are totally different specialties. Podiatry is a single specialty that prides itself on being the expert in all care of the foot and ankle. Now I agree that the top students should get the top three year program that is where the competition should be.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Like others, I agree with parts of what you are saying and disagree with others.

All graduating DPMs do not automatically deserve the best PG training. It is a privilege and a job which is applied for - not something which is guaranteed to all. If the number of graduates outnumber the number of residency programs which get the rearfoot case numbers to be a PMS-36, then the less desirable applicants will have to settle for less popular residencies (and/or be very flexible about location).

The competition for top residencies is what makes students "work harder and strive for higher goals." If everyone knew they were getting a similar PMS-36, there would be little competition (except for maybe those programs with a big name director or prime location). If you back up not too far in podiatry's history, top graduates were happy just to be offered any residency. Times have changed, but I feel that the best programs should remain that way today: competed for by the most highly qualified and competent graduates. Again, a good PMS-36 should be strived for, not expected.

As for the "not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon" portion, I believe that is because there is only a limited demand for those services. Not every pod resident has the dexterity to be a good surgeon, and others may lack the knowledge to grasp the literature or work ethic to take call and meet surgeon demands. Not every neurologist is a neurosurgeon, not every dentist is an oral surgeon, not every cardiologist is an interventional cardiologist, etc. Sometimes only the best, brightest, and most capable graduates get a crack at the top training programs. For DPM residencies, there are just not enough level-1 trauma centers to support all current DPM residencies truly providing RF numbers (without having residents double-scrub, count assists as primary surgeon cases, etc), and there is really no need to having every pod graduate learn the complex RF cases if they're not all going to be doing them in their practice.

I think a scored part I NBPME board exam would be interesting for podiatry and the residency selection process. As it stands, all the residencies have to judge candidates by is GPA, but some schools use straight letter grades, some use +/-, and some use 70-100 grading. A numerical board exam score may be able to help to level the playing field for residency candidates and help residencies know what they are getting.

 

[discusdan]

Like others, I agree with parts of what you are saying and disagree with others.

All graduating DPMs do not automatically deserve the best PG training. It is a privilege and a job which is applied for - not something which is guaranteed to all. If the number of graduates outnumber the number of residency programs which get the rearfoot case numbers to be a PMS-36, then the less desirable applicants will have to settle for less popular residencies (and/or be very flexible about location).

The competition for top residencies is what makes students "work harder and strive for higher goals." If everyone knew they were getting a similar PMS-36, there would be little competition (except for maybe those programs with a big name director or prime location). If you back up not too far in podiatry's history, top graduates were happy just to be offered any residency. Times have changed, but I feel that the best programs should remain that way today: competed for by the most highly qualified and competent graduates. Again, a good PMS-36 should be strived for, not expected.

As for the "not everyone is a foot and ankle surgeon" portion, I believe that is because there is only a limited demand for those services. Not every pod resident has the dexterity to be a good surgeon, and others may lack the knowledge to grasp the literature or work ethic to take call and meet surgeon demands. Not every neurologist is a neurosurgeon, not every dentist is an oral surgeon, not every cardiologist is an interventional cardiologist, etc. Sometimes only the best, brightest, and most capable graduates get a crack at the top training programs. For DPM residencies, there are just not enough level-1 trauma centers to support all current DPM residencies truly providing RF numbers (without having residents double-scrub, count assists as primary surgeon cases, etc), and there is really no need to having every pod graduate learn the complex RF cases if they're not all going to be doing them in their practice.

I think a scored part I NBPME board exam would be interesting for podiatry and the residency selection process. As it stands, all the residencies have to judge candidates by is GPA, but some schools use straight letter grades, some use +/-, and some use 70-100 grading. A numerical board exam score may be able to help to level the playing field for residency candidates and help residencies know what they are getting.

Residencies do have more to separate students with. Externships play a huge role in their future selection of residents. It is like an extended job interview and from others I have spoken to they can separate the students pretty well after working with them for a month to six months and then interviewing them at CRIP.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Residencies do have more to separate students with. Externships play a huge role in their future selection of residents. It is like an extended job interview and from others I have spoken to they can separate the students pretty well after working with them for a month to six months and then interviewing them at CRIP.

I don't think that you have looked at the whole process You only have 5 months before CRIP, so you have a major limiting factor on the number of programs you can see prior. Also, programs choose who to interview based on your CASPR (i.e. your academic record). Some people must impress the directors after CRIP and before February.

While a clerkship is the best way to get a program that you want, it has it's limits.