Do you believe in evolution through natural selection?

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Do you believe in evolution through natural selection?

  • Yes, I believe that organisms evolved without the direction of a supreme being

    Votes: 283 69.5%

  • Yes, but a supreme being guided their evolution

    Votes: 83 20.4%

  • No, I am an intelligent design proponent

    Votes: 19 4.7%

  • HELL NO! I am a straight up creationist! Genesis is where its at!

    Votes: 22 5.4%
  • Total voters
    407
greatnt249 said:
I guess what I'm saying is antagonism only reduces channels of communication instead of opening them, no matter how stubborn either side is.
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you have greater faith in human dialogue than i do then. but what you say is undoubtedly true.
 
Dude, really? You link me to a site called reformation.org? I'm a Roman Catholic, but at least I'm trying to link you to historical documents/unbiased sources.

Emperor Constantine was never a pope. A strong influence on the early Church? Maybe...probably. But not a pope. Not according to mainstream history. Maybe your own version, but not the one accepted by academia.

As far as Paul telling off Peter....I don't know if you've ever looked in a history book, but...our Popes have been wrong in the past. Hell, some of them have been real bad people. That's not hard to find. But why do you think the Pope calls councils when making major decisions? Just because popes have made mistakes doesn't remove the fact that they are important leaders and the titular head of the Universal Church . Peter was given the role of leading the church (Matthew 16:18) and sheperding the flock (1 Peter 5:2-4) by Jesus. Much of the early church writing points to the Bishop of Rome being the head of the church. Just read Tertullian, Iraenus of Lyon, Ignatius of Antioch. All writing before the time of the canonization of the Bible.

There's a whole list of popes. Here, I'll give you a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

There is no emperor Constantine in there.
 
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greatnt249 said:
I guess what I'm saying is antagonism only reduces channels of communication instead of opening them, no matter how stubborn either side is.
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In the words of Dan Dennett, arguing with this guy, as with any creationist, is like playing tennis without a net.
 
teenmachinery1 said:
You might want to ask yourself why 99.9% of all "perfect creatures" are now extinct.

:idea: <-- you
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who said the Almighty can't guide evolution in one direction - where inevitably some species have to vanish

i must say "Almighty" since im inwardly debating if there is such "almighty" in the first place
 
Arguing with Oaklandguy is like playing tennis against a dolphin.
 
k.. i should've worded it differently



oh man, now we gotta argue about what "perfect" is.
 
vickpick said:
who said the Almighty can't guide evolution in one direction - where inevitably some species have to vanish

i must say "Almighty" since im inwardly debating if there is such "almighty" in the first place
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Again, not some species but most species have vanished. So, you were saying that you think the almighty had a hand in evolution because of the "perfect creatures" that abound our planet currently.

But not only have most species vanished, but species today continue to vanish. So where is this perfection that you speak of?
 
vickpick said:
I say perfect because I think they comtribute to the earth in the best they can.. and they make earth beautiful...

all organisms are parts of the mosaic that makes earth "perfect"... I love the earth since I know of no other planet where i can survive!
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Right, no one is arguing against loving our planet. I make sweet love to it every night.

But these organisms that make earth "perfect" are disappearing as well. Not entirely because of our doing. The fact is, 99.9% of all species that have ever existed no longer exist on this "perfect" planet, and these "perfect" creatures will continue to vanish.

I think our (hopefully) education in medical school will reveal exactly how perfectly we are designed.
 
vickpick said:
I say perfect because I think they comtribute to the earth in the best they can.. and they make earth beautiful...

all organisms are parts of the mosaic that makes earth "perfect"... I love the earth since I know of no other planet where i can survive!
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Mosquitos too? And viruses, infectious bacteria, etc.? I think the would could have been fine without the ebola virus. There are probably at least a thousand other planets where we can survive in the 100 trillion+ planets in the universe.
 
oaklandguy said:
It takes faith to believe in the Bible. Those findings are cool, but the only one I've seen in person is Hezekiah's tunnel. I mentioned the wheels at the bottom of the Sea of Reeds (the Red sea was something lost in translation), because it is widely known. I mentioned them to State that parts of the Bible have been proven, so you cannot take the entire book and throw it as being false. That was my point. Nothing you mentioned hurts my point?
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I've just been watching this thread, popcorn in hand, hoping Oaklandguy is anomalous, but I had to ask a question after this post - Oaklandguy, you say here that something was lost in translation. Doesn't that open the door to the possibility that other things have been lost in translation? I have never understood the literal interpretation of the Bible, if only because it HAS been passed down through now thousands of years, through who knows how many languages, translated for ages by people paid by those in power, with incentives to skew certain things their way.

I like to think I have an open mind, and I fully believe in everyone's right to their beliefs and opinions. However, and I'm trying to say this as kindly as possible, the fact that I think you have the right to believe something for which I see no basis in reality or logic does not mean I can not judge your intellectual strength or curiosity based on your belief. It's one thing to not "believe" in evolution when one has not been educated about it - to have studied evolution and seen the enormous, independently verified, near-universally corroborated piles of evidence for it and willfully refuse to admit that it's at least compelling says a lot about a person - not that they are not a "good" person, in a moral sense, but, IMO, not capable of being a real practitioner of science.

I've almost certainly said too much, so I'll end rant here. I'm not trying to flame or make an ad hominem attack, I'm just disturbed by, well - I'll leave it at that. I'm disturbed.
 
vickpick said:
I say perfect because I think they comtribute to the earth in the best they can.. and they make earth beautiful...

all organisms are parts of the mosaic that makes earth "perfect"... I love the earth since I know of no other planet where i can survive!
Click to expand...

Even by your "definition" of perfection, humans are far from perfect.
 
debbidala said:
I've just been watching this thread, popcorn in hand, hoping Oaklandguy is anomalous, but I had to ask a question after this post - Oaklandguy, you say here that something was lost in translation. Doesn't that open the door to the possibility that other things have been lost in translation? I have never understood the literal interpretation of the Bible, if only because it HAS been passed down through now thousands of years, through who knows how many languages, translated for ages by people paid by those in power, with incentives to skew certain things their way.

I like to think I have an open mind, and I fully believe in everyone's right to their beliefs and opinions. However, and I'm trying to say this as kindly as possible, the fact that I think you have the right to believe something for which I see no basis in reality or logic does not mean I can not judge your intellectual strength or curiosity based on your belief. It's one thing to not "believe" in evolution when one has not been educated about it - to have studied evolution and seen the enormous, independently verified, near-universally corroborated piles of evidence for it and willfully refuse to admit that it's at least compelling says a lot about a person - not that they are not a "good" person, in a moral sense, but, IMO, not capable of being a real practitioner of science.

I've almost certainly said too much, so I'll end rant here. I'm not trying to flame or make an ad hominem attack, I'm just disturbed by, well - I'll leave it at that. I'm disturbed.
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best post yet
 
Science has explained the evolution of human body.Who has created human Soul?
 
Grand said:
Science has explained the evilution of huma body.Who has created human Soul?
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the human did....



or as you would say, the "huma" from "evilution"
 
12345a said:
the human did....



or as you would say, the "huma" from "evilution"
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Oh Come and take me.
Probably, I did not pay attention, but I can restate the same assumption in 3 more lang. 🙂
 
Grand said:
Evolution does not give an answer to this Q.
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Yes it does.

I think by human soul you're referring to our consciousness, which refers to our highly evolved brain. If you think the human soul is anything else... Sorry to tell you, but there's no Santa Claus either.
 
Grand said:
Evolution does not give an answer to this Q.
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Start by empirically showing that there is something to the human soul beyond unbelievably complex networks of billions of interconnected neurons (which evolved, by the way), and you're on the way to a real argument! :idea:
 
Grand said:
Oh Come and take me.
Probably, I did not smth correctly (i don't know what you're trying to say here) , but I can restate the same assumption in 3 more lang. 🙂
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give it a shot, but i'm guessing it will be just as incomprehensible as your previous posts. 😀
 
nope...still nothing....maybe sign language

:laugh:




...or braille
 
Evolution... Happened

Soul... can't prove there is or isn't one

Origin of life and/or matter... can't prove where it all came from

God... the organizer of the whole thing for some, and a myth for others. No one can prove the existence or lack of existence. Hence --> faith.
 
SteinUmStein said:
Start by empirically showing that there is something to the human soul beyond unbelievably complex networks of billions of interconnected neurons (which evolved, by the way), and you're on the way to a real argument! :idea:
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You can't empirically show this. Yet you can't disprove it either. So it becomes a choice.
 
BennieBlanco said:
You can't empirically show this. Yet you can't disprove it either. So it becomes a choice.
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but you can certainly say that the entire weight of current understanding of human biology indicates no such entity
 
bleargh said:
but you can certainly say that the entire weight of current understanding of human biology indicates no such entity
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Decades ago, "entire weight of current understanding of human biology" was not able to indicate the developments of 21 century.

Science is not perfect.
 
bleargh said:
but you can certainly say that the entire weight of current understanding of human biology indicates no such entity
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I would agree with that. But there are many things that physicists/physicians/scientists are working on today that they do not understand completely. Medicine has hardly figured everything out, so I find it hard to believe that humanity has figured out all of existence.

In 1000 years there will still be learning and advancements in the universe, medicine, and biology. I can't conclude the soul doesn't exist just because we have no proof yet.

To each his own.
 
teenmachinery1 said:
Right, no one is arguing against loving our planet. I make sweet love to it every night.

But these organisms that make earth "perfect" are disappearing as well. Not entirely because of our doing. The fact is, 99.9% of all species that have ever existed no longer exist on this "perfect" planet, and these "perfect" creatures will continue to vanish.

I think our (hopefully) education in medical school will reveal exactly how perfectly we are designed.
Click to expand...

IDK man.. up until some time ago.. i used to debate with my friends saying unguided evolution is the answer...

then suddenly.. one day.. something ticked, and that doesn't make sense... maybe that has something to do with me completely falling in love with my gf, lol... I never believed in any God before that.. now I'm starting to think there might be somebody "up" there...

maybe, too much of my friends is rubbing off on me.. idk..

maybe, so many species vanish so often is because the "One" is trying to organize his experiment, or cleaning up his room.. lol...

i dont know man... i do think evolution is the reason for speciation / extinction.. but I don't think it can be ABSOLUTELY unguided.... no one can know for sure - unfortunately
 
BennieBlanco said:
I would agree with that. But there are many things that physicists/physicians/scientists are working on today that they do not understand completely. Medicine has hardly figured everything out, so I find it hard to believe that humanity has figured out all of existence.

In 1000 years there will still be learning and advancements in the universe, medicine, and biology. I can't conclude the soul doesn't exist just because we have no proof yet.

To each his own.
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i don't dismiss it out of hand. but i have a realistic grasp for the current support for such a concept. none.
 
BennieBlanco said:
You can't empirically show this. Yet you can't disprove it either. So it becomes a choice.
Click to expand...

To say this is a choice is simply lazy.

You can empirically show this. However, one has to define the soul before we can continue our conversation. So, i'll have to replace (because I can't define something I don't think exists) the word 'soul' with something like 'consciousness, realization of one's existence, the quality that makes a person an individual like their personality and so on..'.

These things can be abrogated through decapitation or if that's too crude, a simple lobotomy or a well placed stroke could suffice.

This, empirically, says much about the relationship between neural complexicity and 'consciousness, the quality... etc.,'.

OR, you can just choose to say it's given by god or whatever.
 
just a quick question..

to the people who don't think "the human" is perfect, are you guyz the "glass is half empty" type? or do you not have any artistic/ appreciative bone in your body where u constantly have to point out things that are wrong?
 
Grand said:
Decades ago, "entire weight of current understanding of human biology" was not able to indicate the developments of 21 century.

Science is not perfect.
Click to expand...

No one's saying it is. However, if you're holding out for science to try to prove the existence of God, you're wasting your time, as science has no business in doing such.
 
teenmachinery1 said:
To say this is a choice is simply lazy.

You can empirically show this. However, one has to define the soul before we can continue our conversation. So, i'll have to replace (because I can't define something I don't think exists) the word 'soul' with something like 'consciousness, realization of one's existence, the quality that makes a person an individual like their personality and so on..'.

These things can be abrogated through decapitation or if that's too crude, a simple lobotomy or a well placed stroke could suffice.

This, empirically, says much about the relationship between neural complexicity and 'consciousness, the quality... etc.,'.

OR, you can just choose to say it's given by god or whatever.
Click to expand...

This is funny because there have been many times in human history where we could not see something. Physicists still work on things that can't completely understand nor see.

Define soul, let wikipedia do it. Everyone has an idea:
The soul, in many religions, spiritual traditions, and philosophies, is the spiritual and eternal part of a living being, commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; distinct from the physical part. It is typically thought to consist of ones consciousness and personality, and can be synonymous with the spirit, mind or self.[1] The soul is believed to live on after the person’s physical death, and some religions posit that God creates souls. In some cultures, non-human living things, and sometimes other objects (such as rivers) are said to have souls, a belief known as animism.[2]
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It is funny you say that belief of a soul is lazy. Albert Eienstien was likely more intelligent that you and he believed in a soul and a God. Is he now a lazy idiot or something?
 
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