Do you have to be at the top of your class at any school to match into competitive specialties?

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Also useful for soothing the people who keep saying med school reputation will be all that matters when Step 1 is P/F, it's apparently less often considered than whether your school was accredited!
This is a very misleading survey result. Tbh, only a very small portion of programs are even in the game of recruiting people from t5's. So of course, school reputation is not something considered by most PD's.

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This is a very misleading survey result. Tbh, only a very small portion of programs are even in the game of recruiting people from t5's. So of course, school reputation is not something considered by most PD's.
Agree. For a given specialty in a given year there are only a handful of folks applying from big names and half of them stay at their home hospital system. I do not know why there is so much fear that pedigree will be end-all be-all after 2022.
 
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Okay. I haven't done an audit. My point is, regardless of what they do or don't have, why should they be taxed if I want to be a doctor?

And, more importantly, besides the social justice goals of opening the profession up to those previously excluded, which is really done more through admissions than financial aid, what is the financial justification for saying those who graduate into a $250K+ career from a low-SES background should do so debt free while everyone else is on their own? Again, I am not begrudging anyone any outside financial assistance they receive, but am asking this in response to those who would begrudge me.
Wealth is familial. It just is. When people die it's usually family that gets their assets. When people marry they usually combine their assets. It's the status achieved by parents that most influences what a young person has on the table as a teenager/early 20s because children don't generate their own opportunities. If you're seriously asking this question, you're better off reading history/sociology than asking on SDN.

Poor kids will not sign on the dotted line for a bachelors or professional degree for sticker price. Schools have to subsidize for them to attend. That money has to come from somewhere and there's not enough to fully subsidize everyone. It's a big deal that some extraordinarily high endowment med schools are working on it for their tiny class sizes. It's not going to be the norm any time soon and not going to happen for larger groups like undergrad colleges.
 
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Wealth is familial. It just is. When people die it's usually family that gets their assets. When people marry they usually combine their assets. It's the status achieved by parents that most influences what a young person has on the table as a teenager/early 20s because children don't generate their own opportunities. If you're seriously asking this question, you're better off reading history/sociology than asking on SDN.

Poor kids will not sign on the dotted line for a bachelors or professional degree for sticker price. Schools have to subsidize for them to attend. That money has to come from somewhere and there's not enough to fully subsidize everyone. It's a big deal that some extraordinarily high endowment med schools are working on it for their tiny class sizes. It's not going to be the norm any time soon and not going to happen for larger groups like undergrad colleges.
I understand. My point is we are ALL going to have familial wealth in 20 years, regardless of how much (or how little) our parents have now. Being admitted to the profession is being given the keys to the kingdom, with or without a tuition discount, need based or otherwise. I also get what you are saying about people from poor backgrounds being debt-averse, but that's a social construct, not an economic one, since the payback on MD tuition is exactly the same for poor students as wealthy ones.

UG financing is a whole other ball of wax, since plenty of people have plenty of trouble paying for it. The fact that pricing has been out of control for a very long time is the very reason the student loan crisis exists.

You are correct about there not being a big push to subsidize UG tuition for upper middle class kids at prestigious private schools. OTOH, that is feeding the rise of the honors colleges at the flagship public schools, with their lower tuition and generous merit scholarships. Many high stat, high income HS students are forgoing full pay Ivy League and other T20 educations for them, and they are turning out just fine, as I'm sure you observed in your med school class.

Whether Ken Langone is going to tackle that next, or whether T20 UG educations will become the exclusive domain of the needy and uber wealthy remains to be seen. But families like mine are becoming increasingly unwilling to put debt on their homes in order to send literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to private colleges, before sending hundreds of thousands more to grad schools, notwithstanding the results of the SDN forensic audit of my parents' finances that concluded that they (and, I guess, everyone similarly situated) have millions of dollars of assets readily available for this purpose. :cool:
 
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Agree. For a given specialty in a given year there are only a handful of folks applying from big names and half of them stay at their home hospital system. I do not know why there is so much fear that pedigree will be end-all be-all after 2022.
Exactly, for most folks, pedigree never matters that much to begin with.
 
Pedigree matters very little in medicine (outside of SDN of course) compared to most other professions. Try getting into big law or federal clerkship from non T14 (they don’t do T20, not sure why) law school. Most everybody who goes to any med school becomes a doctor. Of course, getting into the bottom ranked med school is harder than getting into any law school (besides Harvard, Yale, Stanford)
 
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Pedigree matters very little in medicine (outside of SDN of course) compared to most other professions. Try getting into big law or federal clerkship from non T14 (they don’t do T20, not sure why) law school. Most everybody who goes to any med school becomes a doctor. Of course, getting into the bottom ranked med school is harder than getting into any law school (besides Harvard, Yale, Stanford)
Absolutely, 1,000,000% correct! And, it's not magic. It's an artifact of the astronomical cost of training physicians through the government funded residency slots that creates a lid on the number of physicians produced each year, which in turn creates the supply/demand imbalance that results in the sellers' market that we have all come to know and love so much.

OTOH, the easy money universities were able to generate from law and business programs created a glut that has greatly diminished the value of those degrees from schools below the tippy top. By the way, it's not just Big Law and clerkships. Plenty of JDs from lower tier programs have a hard time getting any job at all that actually requires a JD and a license to practice law. Same for jobs that actually require a MBA.

So, it's not really that pedigree doesn't matter in medicine, because it does when it comes to being able to do the really hard to get things like academia, hot specialties, prestigious residency programs, etc. It's just that persistent shortages in the field allow just about everyone to have plentiful career opportunities, outside those few hyper competitive options, and THAT'S what renders pedigree meaningless for the vast majority of career opportunities that the vast majority of us will be pursuing.
 
Pedigree matters very little in medicine (outside of SDN of course) compared to most other professions. Try getting into big law or federal clerkship from non T14 (they don’t do T20, not sure why) law school. Most everybody who goes to any med school becomes a doctor. Of course, getting into the bottom ranked med school is harder than getting into any law school (besides Harvard, Yale, Stanford)
T14 because GULC is almost always ranked No.14 and those schools are considered nationally viable schools for Big Law jobs. If you go to one of those schools, firms don't have a hard cutoff on your law school GPA to give you an interview. Whereas, if you go to UCLA, usually ranked 15, they require 3.5 for most Big Law interviews. The same applies to B-schools, the Magnificent 7 enjoy an unhindered access to top job interviews. You just need to show up on the interview day to have a shot. I know that because I have a JD from a T14 and an MBA from a Magnificent 7.
 
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T14 because GULC is almost always ranked No.14 and those schools are considered nationally viable schools for Big Law jobs. If you go to one of those schools, firms don't have a hard cutoff on your law school GPA to give you an interview. Whereas, if you go to UCLA, usually ranked 15, they require 3.5 for most Big Law interviews. The same applies to B-schools, the Magnificent 7 enjoy an unhindered access to top job interviews. You just need to show up on the interview day to have a shot. I know that because I have a JD from a T14 and an MBA from a Magnificent 7.
What is student monthly loan payment
 
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You have provided absolutely nothing useful to this thread except try to appear smarter than you are by constantly asking for proof for what is presented as speculation. Just stop posting.
Truth hurts, but ok...have a wonderful day;)
 
....I live here. Unless you live in a closet in Yorkville eating canned tuna and ramen everyday, you'll be paying a lot of. A decent studio is 3-4k alone.

NYU just effectively found a way to snag every top rich applicant/URM who now get to pocket 300k. 3% disadvantaged btw. Imagine the donations and the like that they will get down the line from these people.
I also live in Manhattan and can say your comment may be true on some studios, but to suggest you cannot get a decent studio for less than 3-4 is utterly not true. Rents have come down and even before, you can still have found housing for around 2k and yes, in Manhattan, not Brooklyn, Bronx, etc.
 
zero. Law school full-ride, b-school loans paid off within 2 years of graduation with a job on Wall Street.
And now you’re in medical school?

Did you pass the bar and decide just not to practice. Seems like a high opportunity cost.

Not asking to be rude just genuinely curious. Never heard a MD/JD/MBA all in one
 
And now you’re in medical school?

Did you pass the bar and decide just not to practice. Seems like a high opportunity cost.

Not asking to be rude just genuinely curious. Never heard a MD/JD/MBA all in one
Passed the bar in two states and practiced for 3 years as a litigator. Didn't like it very much and decided to jump into finance. Didn't like it either. Decided to do medicine.
 
....I live here. Unless you live in a closet in Yorkville eating canned tuna and ramen everyday, you'll be paying a lot of. A decent studio is 3-4k alone.
You say that as if Yorkville isn't a good neighborhood lol. Yorkville is a great place to live and literally one of the safest neighborhoods in the city. Also HARD disagree that you need 3-4k for a decent studio. 2k is more than enough to find a place with decent space.... especially in the UES.

If you were talking about more downtown, like East Village, I might agree... but that's something you can fix by having even just one roommate.

If you're really strapped for cash there are neighborhoods cheaper than Yorkville that are fine too... You can't have it all in NYC... But affordable options are 100% available if that's your priority. I have friends paying between 900 - $1,000 a month in manhattan. Also have other friends paying a little less out in Bushwick
 
Passed the bar in two states and practiced for 3 years as a litigator. Didn't like it very much and decided to jump into finance. Didn't like it either. Decided to do medicine.
What's your next degree when you hit MS3 and see what medicine is really like haha
 
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So is it usually the top 20% of scorers or do you have to be well liked amongst faculty?
Depends on the school. My school takes the top 30% of the class after third year rotations and screens anyone with professionalism marks out of the group. Then they invite the rest to apply for AOA. It’s based on a points system that uses grades, research, volunteering, and leadership to rank applicants. The top third are automatically accepted and the bottom third are automatically rejected unless someone feels there is something exceptional, in which case they get voted on along with the middle third.
 
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Passed the bar in two states and practiced for 3 years as a litigator. Didn't like it very much and decided to jump into finance. Didn't like it either. Decided to do medicine.
Can you still practice? Not sure if bar expires. I think it would be cool to be able to bring cases and argue them without looking like a fool (people who bring cases without passing the bar or at least having JD)
 
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