Does anyone wish they had gone DO?

[Leukocyte]

Porsche

Ooops! Please do not mind my spelling.....what would you expect from a guy with a 860 on his SAT, and (whisper) a Ross student!

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[daelroy]

I edited my post because I didn't want to turn this another flame. I would not recommend attending a foreign school under any circumstances. If you are really that hesitant about attending a DO school then reapply to a U.S. M.D. school. Do postbac, get a masters and study your butt for the MCAT and reapply but whatever you do, don't go overseas.

 

[Leukocyte]

I edited my post because I didn't want to turn this another flame. I would not recommend attending a foreign school under any circumstances. If you are really that hesitant about attending a DO school then reapply to a U.S. M.D. school. Do postbac, get a masters and study your butt for the MCAT and reapply but whatever you do, don't go overseas.

I second that....

And I just want to add that....Please do not go to a Carib school and expect the level of comfort and support/"hand-holding" that you normaly get at a US school......especially during the "clinical years"......

As I said before, Carib schools are fine IF:

-You did not get into US MD/DO school and
-You REALLY want to be a doctor and
-You are a self motivator and do not need lots of support and
-You are strong emotionally and a solid student

Good Luck.

 

[rahulazcom]

SGU/Ross/AUC grads don't wish to be associated with every other foreign medical school. Likewise, you have to be careful with how you characterize DO schools. I feel there is a difference in quality among upper tier DO schools and some of the lower tier schools. I will use AZCOM as an example because it's generally thought of as one of the better DO schools at this present time. AZCOM will publish it's latest match list in the coming weeks but I have heard it's amazng. Out of 135 graduates, supposedly 6 matched in orthopedic surgery (4 of those being allopathic matches). This doesn't include the other surgery matches. Our match list is on par if not better than some U.S. allopathic schools so I stress that it really depends on which DO school you are referring to. There are many DO schools like this but I didn't mention those schools because I only have firsthand information regarding AZCOM. I'm sure schools like MSU, OSU, Texas, CCOM, PCOM, NYCOM, COMP, Kirksville etc. offers similar match list success.

I'm only saying this because I can emphasize with many of you. If I had to choose between what is generally considered a lower tier DO school vs. sgu, ross or auc, I may have considered attending one of the three caribbean schools instead. So it does make a difference which DO school you are referring to when deciding between DO vs. SGU/Ross/AUC. Many of the top DO schools offer match lists that are very similar to some of the lower ranked U.S. allopathic schools.

Again, I'm only speaking to those who are comfortable with the idea of being a DO. I know some are okay with being a DO but are deciding between the two options based on match lists and other placement criteria. To those who are not comfortable with the idea of being a DO, my point is moot so just ignore this post.

 

[rahulazcom]

Is that a Czechoslovakian car?

LOL..

It is more like a 2007 Honda Accord Versus a 1993 Porsche Carrera.

I would take the Carrera.

Anyone would take the Carrera. What kind of example is that?

I think a better example would be a
2007 Toyota Forerunner = DO
vs
1999 Cadillac Escalade w/nice rims = Foreign M.D.

I personally would take the Forerunner over the Escalade. But then again, I'm a guy who likes to play it safe and could care less what others think of me. For someone else, image is important and can't easily be dismissed. The Forerunner is reliable, practical and gets better gas mileage. The Escalade is more accepted by the general public.

 

[Leukocyte]

Two VERY important points to consider for those of you who are willing to give-up a seat at a low ranking DO school, and go to the Caribs instead:

-Residency

No matter how you cut it, a DO school is safer....meaning if you do not match/scramble, you can always rely on DO residency programs to take you. For the Caribs, on the other hand, if you do not match/scramble....

-Licensure

D.O = Easy to jump from one state to another (unless you are a felon )

Carib MD = Some states will make you jump hoops and go into loops...and at the end they might still reject your application. And for those states that are IMG friendly....who knows if they will remain "friendly" in the future.


Please make an educated choice, and talk to many people on both sides of the argument.

Good Luck.

 

[Solideliquid]

Anyone would take the Carrera. What kind of example is that?

I think a better example would be a
2007 Toyota Forerunner = DO
vs
1999 Cadillac Escalade w/nice rims = Foreign M.D.

Yes, I would take the Forerunner over the Escalade. The Forerunner is reliable, practical and gets better gas mileage. The Escalade is sexier but less reliable. I think this is a more fair example, because you will have many people who could go either way.

First off, I think making a comparison like the above is very relative. For example if you hold it up to a certain light as in, "which is better perceived by the public", then I would think MD (caribb, OR US) wins every time. Again relative. But on to the main attraction...drum roll please...getting back on topic: I am an SMU graduate and I will answer the OP.

I am a 26 y/o male, I lived in Los Angeles most of my life (not born in the USA), and I attended CSUN for undergrad. I never really saw the real importance of O-chem, physics and calculus for becoming a physician. In my opinion the subjects the MCAT is comprised of needs to be revamped, and no I don't have all the answers, but I will say getting an A in ochem should not be the reason that one person gets into US med school.

Forward, my story. I did not do very well in college. My science GPA was not the best but OK, overall I did not do as well as others. I pretty much gave up the notion of going into medicine before the idea flowered due to my grades. However soon I learned about an alternative, the so-called caribbean medical schools. I did a little bit of research and applied to SMU as a "test". I was accepted, I was 22, and I thought if I spend at least a year trying this, well no harm done I could always get on track for a masters as was my plan. Well. That did not happen, I did very well in medical school, I honored all my US rotations in 3rd and 4th year (ok ok , in GS I got high pass). I also did well on the USMLE step 1, 2CK, and passed CS. Step 1 was the most difficult exam I EVER sat for. I graduated last december ans successfully matched into the first program I interviewed at (also top of my list), in psychiatry.

Now, as it is all over I do not regret that I never applied to any DO schools. I can say I was not interested in the osteopathic approach to medicine and I do not think I want to practice the manipulation maneuvers (besides what use are they in psych?). Now my name is _____ _____, MD, and I do not regret it. Yes as an IMG, I may not be able to practice in SOME states, and as a DO I would not have that problem, but it does not bother me to tell you the truth. I wanted to become a physician, with an MD and I accomplished my goal.

Feel free to ask anything.

PS> For the record, I think DO=Audi A8 and an MD=Audi A8 w/navigation, DVD player, night vision, and a personal guard whom stands outside the car when parked to watch over it 24/7. Just kidding.

 

[lilzelda]

Hey I was pretty much in ur position whether I wanted to go to a carib school or a DO school, and I picked DO. I think the answers u get on this thread are going to be bias b/c obviously the people who are replying are most likely in a carib med school or a DO school and are going to toot their own horn. I'm heading of to NYCOM b.c its close to home and I don't want to leave NYC and get stuck on some island. Also the drop out/failure rate is a lot lower than some carib schools, U need to pick the school u feel like u have a better chance of succeeding at and being happy. I wanted to make sure I got a job after I graduated and I think being a DO theres def. some more security there. U can make it anywhere really, just think about what u want, and DO's get looked down on but FMG get looked down a lot on as well.....also on ValueMd a lot people say if u have a chance to stay in America take it, I'm kinda surprise that the replies here didn't say that

oops I just read ur first post I thought u were choosing whether to go DO or Carib...u just brought up this topic for the heck of it?

 

[rahulazcom]

First off, I think making a comparison like the above is very relative. For example if you hold it up to a certain light as in, "which is better perceived by the public", then I would think MD (caribb, OR US) wins every time.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I created this analogy for the exact reason you cited. The Escalade is better perceived by the public. I think many students would take the Escalade= IMG/Acceptance/Lower Productivity over the Forerunner= DO/Less Acceptance/Higher Productivity. There is no right or wrong answer. It depends on your personality and what you are seeking. Some of you prefer acceptance at the expense of lowering one's chances of specializing and having a choice about one's location. You did quite well and no one will question your credentials. You are happy with your decision and that's what counts. Likewise, many DO's like myself are happy with our decision. I was able to attend medical school at home in Phoenix and have a very good chance to enter the field I have dreamt about. For me, this was the right decision. It's really not a contest in my opinion. It's really about finding what is the best fit for the individual. It is silly that we keep making this a contest when it shouldn't be one. I have a friend who is considering going overseas and I have given him my blessing and told him that it's a fine option.

 

[Trifling Jester]

You should compare the match list from SGU to the match lists at DO schools. The information is available - find out for yourself. It made my decision to attend SGU much easier.

-The Trifling Jester

 

[novacek88]

And when do you compare schools, be sure to remind yourself that SGU graduates 350-400 students per class. Most DO schools graduate anywhere from 100-150 students per class. So it's not a true apples to apples comparison. You may get the false impression that your chances of matching into a competitive field is equal to that of a DO school because the total number of competitive matches are similar. But when you account for the large class size, you will see your chances drop considerably. After all, it's much easier matching into surgery when you are competing with a 125 students versus 400 students. Honestly, no carib school can match the best DO schools in terms of competitive placements, not even SGU. You will always be better off attending a reputable DO school if you want to specialize or do something competitive.

 

[docmd2010]

I believe that d.o. is the more competitive route if you want a good residency. Look at ERAS, the overall match rate for d.o.'s is apprximately 70% and for fmg's is 49%. (us md's is 93%). numbers don't lie.

 

[rgerwin]

I think it's never as somple as DO or carribean. It really matters what you think you want as a specialty, and where you want to live. Me, I want to go IM and live in NYC. No problem there. Also, I think I want to live in the UK some day, and the MD will transfer better. I love the DO philosophy, and will be happey to do that route if that's what happens. I'm personally applying to it all. I'm getting too old to monkey around.

 

[Clearlythere]

I ve done that. I m particularly interested in SGU and Ross. I know that they are both accreditted in California where i hope to come back to.

I m interested in doing either Internal med and then specializing or doing general surgery and then specializing. Both residencies i hear are not too difficult to obtain from either DO or carrib. schools, as of fellowships after the residency I m not as certain of.

I m wondering more of what peoples personal experiences (or personal experiences they have heard of) were during or after attending a carrib. school. On the osteo threads many people claim to know many people in the carribean who wish that they had gone DO. I was just wondering why someone would think this and what experiences they had to prove or disprove these claims.

I just finished my first year at Ross and I'd be happy to give you any information I can. Would I go DO if I had to do it all over again? No. But it is hard to say the least. I understand how you feel bvecause it was a hard decision for me to decide to attend a carribean school. I can give you an overview on what I wish people had told me and you can also feel free to ask me any questions. Here's how it is:
Ross excepts alot of people, its really not that hard to get in, the challenging part is staying in. They have good board scores because only the best students make it that far. It's definetly the most challeging thing I've ever done. There are Pros and cons, First the island itself, there's just no convenience, no movie theatres, groccery stores, fast food etc and this doesnt seem like a big deal now, but when its exam time YOU CANNOT GET AWAY you see the same people all day everyday no one new ever, you create a huge mental stress pool. Power goes out alot and so does internet. YOu dont get american holidays off, but you get a two week break before each new semester. The school itself doesnt care if you succeed or not, they are primarily in it for the money. I was accepted with a class of 400 (which made anatomy lab hell). But the classes are rigorous and people leave. The school doesnt help you are pretty much on your own, we all say if we can get through this we can get through anything. I just finished a semester and the last two weeks I had three lab practicals, a final in all the subjects and all the shelf exams(which lasted 8 days). I sometimes think I shouldve waited a year and reapplied, but this was my decision and for me I didnt want to do DO.It'd definetly the hardest thing I've ever done and I hate it there and dislike the school, but it taught me to appreciate everything and it really puts things in a different perspective. If you want more specifics just let me know. I know how hard the decision making process can be.

 

[rahulazcom]

I just finished my first year at Ross and I'd be happy to give you any information I can. Would I go DO if I had to do it all over again? No. But it is hard to say the least. I understand how you feel bvecause it was a hard decision for me to decide to attend a carribean school. I can give you an overview on what I wish people had told me and you can also feel free to ask me any questions. Here's how it is:
Ross excepts alot of people, its really not that hard to get in, the challenging part is staying in. They have good board scores because only the best students make it that far. It's definetly the most challeging thing I've ever done. There are Pros and cons, First the island itself, there's just no convenience, no movie theatres, groccery stores, fast food etc and this doesnt seem like a big deal now, but when its exam time YOU CANNOT GET AWAY you see the same people all day everyday no one new ever, you create a huge mental stress pool. Power goes out alot and so does internet. YOu dont get american holidays off, but you get a two week break before each new semester. The school itself doesnt care if you succeed or not, they are primarily in it for the money. I was accepted with a class of 400 (which made anatomy lab hell). But the classes are rigorous and people leave. The school doesnt help you are pretty much on your own, we all say if we can get through this we can get through anything. I just finished a semester and the last two weeks I had three lab practicals, a final in all the subjects and all the shelf exams(which lasted 8 days). I sometimes think I shouldve waited a year and reapplied, but this was my decision and for me I didnt want to do DO.It'd definetly the hardest thing I've ever done and I hate it there and dislike the school, but it taught me to appreciate everything and it really puts things in a different perspective. If you want more specifics just let me know. I know how hard the decision making process can be.

I guess this varies because the few AUC students I know said they literally had the best time of their lives in St. Maarten. They said it was basically like studying in Cancun.

I have a close friend who is considering AUC and my school. He prefers to go to AZCOM but he may have no choice but to go to a foreign school. I told him to check out AUC. if I had to pick a school in the caribbean, I would probably go there. Medical school is hard enough on it's own. The last thing I would want to worry about is a lack of modern conveniences. That would just add to my stress and make studying a lot more difficult in my opinion. But then again, I know people who choose Ross because they want to avoid temptation so I understand their reasons as well. It really is a personal choice.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I ve been to the DO threads and people always bring up the same stories, about how they know people who went to the carrib. for med school and those people now wish that they had gone DO instead. I know one person like this (hes at St. Mathews), but most of the other people I know are very happy with their decisions (Sgu and Ross).

Does anyone on this forum wish they had gone DO instead of carrib.? Any arguments for or against this? Any input would be appreciated, bc I am considering both. Thanks.

Not me....NO!

 

[Mixmaster]

I can not believe this is even being discussed. Why? Rotations at CCOM are with Loyola, UIC, and CMS students. Preclinicals are all US PhD's, MD/DO. Very Competitive.... Here's the match lists for us... http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/CCOMClinEd/studentArea.htm
Mayo, Northwestern (IM), Hopkins, Cleveland Clinic, Loyola, Rush etc.... Come on I should not have to post this.

 

[Kuba]

I can't believe this is being discussed here also.... I just can't see why anyone would go IMG MD over DO unless you really, really, really want those two letters for the small number of ignorant patients who might question your intellect. Everyone else will respect you for how well you do your job rather than where you went to school and what your degree is called.

 

[rgerwin]

I think, in general, DO is a better way to go. There might be specific instances where IMG is better. For example, I would like to live in the UK someday, so getting my degree from, let's say, ireland would allow me to practice in both the US and the UK. The UK doesn't really go for the whole DO thing. At least, not yet. Plus, they just tightened the immigration laws.

 

[rahulazcom]

I can't believe this is being discussed here also.... I just can't see why anyone would go IMG MD over DO unless you really, really, really want those two letters for the small number of ignorant patients who might question your intellect. Everyone else will respect you for how well you do your job rather than where you went to school and what your degree is called.

Fear is a great motivator. And much of this fear is perpetuated in college among pre-meds. I would be lying if I said I didn't share those same fears when I was applying. It's natural so I can't blame students for feeling that way. But it seems the higher up you go, the more the whole DO/IMG becomes a non-issue. In hindsight, it seems rather silly to make such a big deal about the DO/IMG issue and all the urban myths that were spread such as "I met this guy once who said....." I have met many successful IMG's and DO's.

I'm a DO and I don't think the caribbean is a bad process either. I'm not going to put down the IMG process. I think it's a fine route personally. I do think it would be really difficult to live on Dominica but as far as your education goes, it is what you make of it. The same goes for DO schools. Our top students have pretty much matched in their first choice. The only caveat I have is that DO schools are U.S. schools and thus they treat their students like all U.S. schools. We are a little pampered when compared to what IMG's face so I do think that's something to consider

 

[ChillOut]

I ve been to the DO threads and people always bring up the same stories, about how they know people who went to the carrib. for med school and those people now wish that they had gone DO instead. I know one person like this (hes at St. Mathews), but most of the other people I know are very happy with their decisions (Sgu and Ross).

Does anyone on this forum wish they had gone DO instead of carrib.? Any arguments for or against this? Any input would be appreciated, bc I am considering both. Thanks.

in my opinion and MD degree and DO degree can vary in speciality training, DO focus on holistic approach, MD focus on treatment with medications as a form of healing. read up on what DO's do and then your answers will become clear.

 

[MossPoh]

I think all the caribbs and DO's should just gather together and have one big group hug. You all have something in common...be doctors/help people ...at least I hope so. Nothing in life is an easy decision, or very few things at least. Just bite the bullet and never look back with what you do. To me regret is one of the worst things in life.....it will always linger there. I personally regret not understanding my goals earlier and thus screwing up my grades but I'm not going to let it eat me alive. Both DO's and IMG's have some degree of an uphill battle. Personally I think you should take away the md/do part and just look at a school neutrally..assigning points based on location, money, quality of life, etc and go from there. It is a hard road either way...you can compare matches till you are blue in the face but what is the worst that can happen? You become a different doctor than you intended....sometimes that is for the best and it is just hard to see at the immediate time.

 

[NRAI2001]

in my opinion and MD degree and DO degree can vary in speciality training, DO focus on holistic approach, MD focus on treatment with medications as a form of healing. read up on what DO's do and then your answers will become clear.

DOs prescribe medication also. Most DOs use very little of the OMM they are taught in school.

 

[rahulazcom]

in my opinion and MD degree and DO degree can vary in speciality training, DO focus on holistic approach, MD focus on treatment with medications as a form of healing. read up on what DO's do and then your answers will become clear.

This is actually a huge myth regarding DO's. The vast majority of DO's do not practice OMM. OMM is only one class per quarter/semester. DO's take every class Allopathic students take in addition to OMM so their training is equivalent. This is why medical licensing boards in all 50 states affirm the DO degree is a separate but equal degree. OMM is a skill that must be practiced. You use it or lose it type of ideaology. A lot of DO's just can't devote the time to mastering those skills unless they set aside time for it. By the time you reach clinicals, it's pretty difficult to be proficient enough in the field to feel comfortable treating patients. I have a lot of respect for DO's who are excellent at OMM because it's not easy to perform.

 

[texmex2]

I ve been to the DO threads and people always bring up the same stories, about how they know people who went to the carrib. for med school and those people now wish that they had gone DO instead. I know one person like this (hes at St. Mathews), but most of the other people I know are very happy with their decisions (Sgu and Ross).

Does anyone on this forum wish they had gone DO instead of carrib.? Any arguments for or against this? Any input would be appreciated, bc I am considering both. Thanks.

I had several in my class at Ross that were accepted to DO schools, and that later regreted not going. Without exception they were the ones who performed mediocre-to-poor at Ross (no offense intended, Leukocyte).

I think a person would almost have to choose a DO school over St. Matthews though. Just for the licensure issues that are specific to SMU alone. But if it's one of the "Big 4" then you've got a legitimately tough decision. Good luck!

 

[trent05]

MD vs DO.....The farther out of med school you get, the less it matters.

 

[billydoc]

MD vs DO.....The farther out of med school you get, the less it matters.

That's very true but... the arguement on this thread is D.O vs FMG/IMG MD. It's not the same thing as MD vs DO. In essence it's U.S vs Foreign medical degree. No matter how ppl try to pad it, it does matter for getting a residency, esp if it's competetive.

 

[Shinken]

That's very true but... the arguement on this thread is D.O vs FMG/IMG MD. It's not the same thing as MD vs DO. In essence it's U.S vs Foreign medical degree. No matter how ppl try to pad it, it does matter for getting a residency, esp if it's competetive.

The issue is too complex to simplify it as "foregin MD vs DO." There are many variables to be considered beyond the degree. Board scores? Personality? Looks? Research? Extracurriculars? Location of the school? Personality of the PD? Politics of the institution you're applying to?

Having a DO is not a definite advantage over a foreign MD in all circumstances, and having a foreign MD is not a disadvantage in all circumstances.

What people are looking for when they post questions about this versus that degree is an easy, formulaic answer that in real life won't quite work. Life is more complex than that.

 

[billydoc]

The issue is too complex to simplify it as "foregin MD vs DO." There are many variables to be considered beyond the degree. Board scores? Personality? Looks? Research? Extracurriculars? Location of the school? Personality of the PD? Politics of the institution you're applying to?

Having a DO is not a definite advantage over a foreign MD in all circumstances, and having a foreign MD is not a disadvantage in all circumstances.

What people are looking for when they post questions about this versus that degree is an easy, formulaic answer that in real life won't quite work. Life is more complex than that.

You are correct. There is no clear cut, one size fits all answer. But having your medical degree earned in U.S is one less headache to deal with for both residency and licensing issues. I'm not saying that going to the Carib is not a viable option (I'm in that boat myself, because I never applied in the States).What I don't understand is if somebody's got a choice between DO and outside of US...why would they want to put themselves through so much uncertainty? If having "MD" after your name is so important, just buy an MD degree from some Banana Republic. (Joe Blow, D.O,M.D.) I've seen it many, many times. Anyway, just one man's opinion.

 

[trent05]

.

 

[daelroy]

I know several graduated IMG's including members of this forum who tell others to stay in the U.S. all costs even if that includes attending a DO school. It's misleading to say people are studying at a tropical island as if you are in Maui. It's a third world country that offers many inconveniences. Almost all of these IMG's were unaware of these inconveniences prior to starting. And the problems don't stop when you leave the island. A lot of IMG's experience issues when setting up rotations and dealing with moving related hassles.

And the location is not just the problem. These schools themselves are not run like U.S. schools. The teaching, facilities and resources have a lot to be desired. If these were truly U.S.-like schools in a difficult setting, I suppose the IMG path wouldn't be so bad but nearly every IMG I have spoken with admitted that it's a rough route but that they are proud they endured it.

I would like to add another point. Studying the U.S. provides you with opportunities to network. Case in point, My 1st and 2nd year preceptors were on staff at one of the hospitals I'm interested in pursuing a residency in. My preceptor put me in contact with this program director and spoke highly of me. Now I have a huge edge over a lot of my competition. I couldn't have done this as a basic science student in Grenada.

I would like to add one more point. The military is very pro-DO and has almost no DO bias at all. A lot of DO students are on military scholarships and have a great chance of getting a tough residency through the military.

The DO bias is falling fast. There are more DO schools opening up and the current crop of M.D.'s don't harbor the same biases their predecessors held. The baby boomer M.D.'s are retiring which only means the bias will decrease even further. In 10-20 years, this is not even going to be an issue. By the time you graduate, it will be even less of an issue than it is today.

 

[daelroy]

Trust me, getting a DO is not the golden ticket for a derm or a neurosurg residency. Both DO's and IMG MD's will be at a disadvantage for the uber competitve residencies.

This is assuming that DO's and IMG's are perceived in the same manner. It's pretty much the gospel that DOs are preferred on a national scale.The only part of the country that would even consider giving an IMG a spot over an equally qualified DO would be in NY and NJ. And even if you were to assume, they were treated equally, DO's can still apply to AOA residencies. I'm interested in orthopedic surgery. There are a good number of AOA ortho residencies so I'm pretty confident I will match in an AOA spot somewhere. I met some IMG's who were interviewing for ortho. They told me how lucky I was and that they wished they too could apply for AOA spots. These were bright IMG's with 250+ and research. I don't have better statistics than these candidates but I will match in ortho while these guys will be trying to do a pre-lim year or take a year off to do research.You might be an M.D the rest of your life but think about the sacrafices you will make to have that M.D.

 

[daelroy]

I had several in my class at Ross that were accepted to DO schools, and that later regreted not going. Without exception they were the ones who performed mediocre-to-poor at Ross (no offense intended, Leukocyte).

I believe your story because I know someone who failed out of Ross to attend my school a year later. He says Ross was harder than our school. He said it was such a luxury to have quality notes that were clear and organizednd and that followed the lecture.. He also bashed the teaching. He said there were some great teachers but most of the instructors were not good. He mentioned a lot of them were foreign instructors that were difficult to understand due to their accents and teaching method. After listening to him, I realized we take a lot of things for granted in the U.S. He said the students at Ross have to be more disciplined and independent to survive there. He mentioned a lot of students fail or drop out and the school deliberately fudges their numbers and misrepresents the drop-out rate since they aren't under any authority to release that information in an accurate manner.

 

[texmex2]

Yeah, I think anyone with a strong opinion either way on the whole Caribbean vs. DO thing is probably not worth listening listening to. The reality is that when residency app time rolls around, both will be a distinct disadvantage compared to US allos. Most PD's want neither.

And, of course, there will always be a handful from both that claim they either could have gotten in, or did get in, to a US allopathic school. These are the ones you just have to smile, nod and walk away from.

 

[oldpro]

Yeah, I think anyone with a strong opinion either way on the whole Caribbean vs. DO thing is probably not worth listening listening to. The reality is that when residency app time rolls around, both will be a distinct disadvantage compared to US allos. Most PD's want neither.

And, of course, there will always be a handful from both that claim they either could have gotten in, or did get in, to a US allopathic school. These are the ones you just have to smile, nod and walk away from.

Of course you know all the thousands of PD of residencies in the USA!

Just another who knows little, DO's are well understood and respected by professionals, FMGs do get decent residencies I have seen the placement lists myself. Of course bias has no logic.

 

[daelroy]

Yeah, I think anyone with a strong opinion either way on the whole Caribbean vs. DO thing is probably not worth listening listening to. The reality is that when residency app time rolls around, both will be a distinct disadvantage compared to US allos. Most PD's want neither.

And, of course, there will always be a handful from both that claim they either could have gotten in, or did get in, to a US allopathic school. These are the ones you just have to smile, nod and walk away from.

This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. So all your statements above are characteristic of a "fair and balanced" opinion. Man, I love exposing hypocrites.

And yes, I did get into two allopathic schools. It's just that these schools were located in very remote...and I mean remote and rural type of states. There is no way I could live in one of those states for 4 years. My DO school is located in a large metropolitan city that has a lot to offer. I loved the school and it's location.

But I agree that both you and I have strong opinions on this matter. That is something readers should take into consideration

 

[texmex2]

...And yes, I did get into two allopathic schools...

[smiling, nodding, walking away]

 

[NRAI2001]

This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. So all your statements above are characteristic of a "fair and balanced" opinion. Man, I love exposing hypocrites.

And yes, I did get into two allopathic schools. It's just that these schools were located in very remote...and I mean remote and rural type of states. There is no way I could live in one of those states for 4 years. My DO school is located in a large metropolitan city that has a lot to offer. I loved the school and it's location.

But I agree that both you and I have strong opinions on this matter. That is something readers should take into consideration

Yea I think i would do the same also. I would rather go to a good DO school in a good location rather than an MD school in the middle of nowhere.

But another thing to consider is after your two basic science years you can usually rotate anywhere you want.

 

[neutropenic]

But another thing to consider is after your two basic science years you can usually rotate anywhere you want.

This is not generally the case. For us, and most schools, you must do your "core" rotations at your home institution. For us we can only do aways for our electives and they are a bit of a PIA to arrange.

 

[wakeboarder]

Some thoughts....

My exprerience:
I am an SGU grad starting my cardiology fellowship in July in the midwest. I can't speak for the others carib schools, but SGU had an amazing campus with lots of conveniences (hi-speed internet, b-ball, tennis, restaurants) I did not expect. It was also beautiful. Most profs were better than my Big Ten undergrad profs; most held high spots in state-school teaching staff before they decided to teach offshore for more money and no research responsibility. The 3rd and 4th year are probably not as organized as US or DO schools, as the school obviously lacks a physical presence at the hospital. Otherwise though, scutwork is pretty much the same at teaching hospitals everywhere. Residency is where you learn to be a doctor, and having done 3 years, I don't think it would have mattered at all where I went to school. All states currently accept IMG's for licensure; however, each state requires a different minimum of residency training for this. (See http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html). There are DO staff in my IM program; in fact one of my favorite staff is DO. He does not need to defend or explain his choice. He just practices good medicine and is well-respected. There are also IMG's with similar positions.

My advice:
We are all on the same team, and we are respected for our practice, not schooling. There do exist misconceptions and prejudices among students, residents, and even PD's. There's a nearby children's hosp that repeatedly chooses an SGU grad for their peds cardiology fellow; I also know of FM programs that advertise that they do not rank IMG's or DO's. These philosophies derive from each's experience or lack thereof with the unusual. They are not scientific decisions and seem pretty random, just like admissions to schools are. My advice would be to VISIT any school you think of applying to (especially in the caribbean), ASK for a residency placement list, and WORK hard in school and residency. Ortho is competative whether you are US, IMG, or DO. I know ortho's from each. With the huge # of resicencies, it's doubtful I can say you should do DO vs. IMG or vice versa. With that number, there is certainly a program in any field that would judge you equally against US grads; not by your degree but rather by your performance. In fact, look closely, because the huge numbers of DO's and IMG's in the system mean that the PD where you apply may be a DO or an IMG. (They're like serial killers: they look like everybody else.) Good luck.

 

[daelroy]

[smiling, nodding, walking away]

When an IMG claims to have gotten into a stateside allopathic school, everyone knows he or she is lying because it makes no sense why one would choose an offshore school over a U.S. since both are allopathic. And if they claim the "islands" as a reason, people still know they are lying because those islands are far from being vacation hotspots. or developed. The islands excuse would have worked if Dominica and Grenada looked like Ibiza but since we know that isn't the case, it's pretty apparent those citing the "studying on the islands" are lying too.

However, many DO's do choose the osteopathic route. I can't tell you how many tree huggers we have in our class that chose the DO approach because of OMM and the holistic concept. A lot of granola ex-chiropractors and massage therapists want the best of both worlds and choose DO. But yes, I would say the majority are there because they couldn't get into an allopathic school. So you can't say both groups lie about getting into an allo school in the states because only DO's have a legitimate reason to avoid an allopathic school.

In short, NICE TRY!

 

[mysophobe]

So you can't say both groups lie about getting into an allo school in the states because only DO's have a legitimate reason to avoid an allopathic school.

Depends on who you talk to, lol.

 

[macrocyte]

When an IMG claims to have gotten into a stateside allopathic school, everyone knows he or she is lying because it makes no sense why one would choose an offshore school over a U.S. since both are allopathic. And if they claim the "islands" as a reason, people still know they are lying because those islands are far from being vacation hotspots. or developed. The islands excuse would have worked if Dominica and Grenada looked like Ibiza but since we know that isn't the case, it's pretty apparent those citing the "studying on the islands" are lying too.

However, many DO's do choose the osteopathic route. I can't tell you how many tree huggers we have in our class that chose the DO approach because of OMM and the holistic concept. A lot of granola ex-chiropractors and massage therapists want the best of both worlds and choose DO. But yes, I would say the majority are there because they couldn't get into an allopathic school. So you can't say both groups lie about getting into an allo school in the states because only DO's have a legitimate reason to avoid an allopathic school.

In short, NICE TRY!

.

 

[daelroy]

AUC is on St. Maarten- a popular tourist destination, that offers a higher quality of life then many US cities. Personally, I would rather live in St. Maarten for 2 years than many of the cities that have osteopathic schools. When someone asks you why you went to osteopathic school you can try your "holistic, chiropracter, massage therapist" excuse. Or you can just say you went to the carribean, it was a great experience, and let your accomplishments during and after med school do your talking.

By higher quality of life, are you talking about power shortages, postage failures and a lack of resources in general? I wouldn't equate casinos and strip clubs with higher quality of life.

Are you disputing what I'm saying? Have you been to an osteopathic school? Dude, check out the campus and you will get exactly what I'm saying. There are a lot of new age type of students that chose to attend a DO school and if you met them, you would understand why. But no one in their right mind would choose to attend a foreign school including AUC if they got into a U.S. school. St. Maarten may be nicer than Dominica but it's not exactly Nasau either There are many people in my class that only want to specialize in OMM. It's a great field in terms of lifestyle and income. It's a cash based field that allows you to work 3 days a week with no call and earn what many primary care physicians are earning. Many former physical therapists, chiropractors and massage therapists want to do their previous field but incorporate OMM and primary practice that. It's very lucrative for the amount of hours worked. So yeah, it's far from an excuse but you can try to fool people into thinking you chose to attend the Caribbean. Even the layman knows Caribbean = Didn't get into U.S. school. But DO can mean = tree hugger chose it. Unlike like caribbean schools, it's well known that many osteopathic students chose the DO route. But no one is going to believe you chose AUC over a stateside U.S. school because you wanted to go to St. Maarten. LOL

What's interesting is the new excuse, the "I got into a DO school but I chose Caribbean" . Love that one wink wink Yeah, I'm sure all of you could have gone to a DO school but just chose the caribbean. I suppose that's why so many IMG's transfer to DO schools each year yet you never hear of DO's who transfer to caribbean schools unless they are fictitious and anonymous characters on ValueMD.

 

[neutropenic]

Yeah, I'm sure all of you could have gone to a DO school but just chose the caribbean. I suppose that's why so many IMG's transfer to DO schools each year yet you never hear of DO's who transfer to caribbean schools unless they are fictitious and anonymous characters on ValueMD.

You need to chill. SGU/Ross/AUC admit stats are similar to many DO schools. Some people may not be interested in OMM. Others may want a degree that allows the potential for practice outside the US with less hassle. Whether one chooses US-MD, US-DO, or a foreign program is a personal choice. I chose a US MD school over a non Carib foreign school but it was not an easy choice. To be honest I never considered DO or Carib schools but again, that was my own personal preference. It is not unreasonable to think someone chose a Carib school over a DO school.

Right or wrong, Carib IMGs and DOs face discrimination in many allo residency programs - this much I will say. If you want an example look at the resident list for Boston Children's/BMC peds program sponsored by BU/Harvard. Not a single Carib grad OR DO.

http://www.childrenshospital.org/training/pedres1/res.html

 

[daelroy]

You need to chill. SGU/Ross/AUC admit stats are similar to many DO schools. .

Many of the top DO schools have stats that exceed many of the lower tier MD schools. Many people like myself choose DO schools over U.S. Allopathic schools. However, I just have a difficult time believing anyone would choose a caribbean school over a U.S. M.D. school. With DO schools, one has the opportunity to learn OMM which many people value contrary to what IMG's tend to believe.

And there are plenty of U.S. allop programs that have no IMG's but have DO's. Do I really need to provide examples of that. I think even you are aware of this fact. CHOP which is ranked higher than Boston Childrens has DO but no caribbean IMG's

 

[neutropenic]

And there are plenty of U.S. allop programs that have no IMG's but have DO's. Do I really need to provide examples of that. I think even you are aware of this fact.

And there are also ones with Carib/Mexcian/Lebanese/other foreign grads and no DOs (especially in surgery which is tough on DOs). Plenty of exclusion criteria to go around.

 

[daelroy]

And there are also ones with Carib/Mexcian grads and no DOs. Plenty of exclusion criteria to go around.

I would like for you to list one. I can provide you with one. CHOP has no caribbean and mexican IMG's but it does have 2 DO residents.

Surgery is tough on everyone but it's more lenient toward DO's. And I'm speaking in reference to carib and Mexican IMG's not European IMG's which are evaluated differently than your typical U.S. citizen who studied in the carib, ireland, poland etc.

 

[neutropenic]

And I'm speaking in reference to carib and Mexican IMG's not European IMG's which are evaluated differently than your typical U.S. citizen who studied in the carib, ireland, poland etc.

UMDNJ Robert Wood Johnson general surg

Yale surgery

Before you go on a firestorm, yes I noted it was prelim.

Carolinas surgery program

And yes, they do have a DO grad in the distant past. One. But no current ones.

There are others I know of that are more dramatic in terms of + foreign grads with no DOs but not every program lists their residents on their website and/or places their schools of graduation/degree.

 

[Shinken]

Will this MD vs DO vs IMG nonsense ever stop?

Don't get me wrong, the threads are entertaining and I've even indulged a couple of times myself, but sometimes I wonder if enough is enough.

OK, got that off my chest. Carry on, carry on...