Does doing orchestra through college look as good as a sport

[metalhead1023]

Well I was wondering if doing orchestra throughout college looks as good as being in a sport through college, and I mean does it look good to the med schools.

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[soparu]

oh wow metahead!! what do you play?

 

[drcrabber]

no way.

do you spend 5 hours on orchestra a day? do you have to wake up at 5:00 am every morning? do you travel like every other weekend? no.

i'm sure orchestra still looks good, though.

 

[metalhead1023]

oh wow metahead!! what do you play?

I play the violin.

 

[LittleRocker]

no way.

do you spend 5 hours on orchestra a day? do you have to wake up at 5:00 am every morning? do you travel like every other weekend? no.

i'm sure orchestra still looks good, though.

Clearly you know nothing about the dedication it takes to play an instrument well enough to be in an orchestra.

 

[gtdoc01]

I absolutely think it does! It gives you dedication to something outside of school/medicine, opportunities for leadership, and shows that you have a creative/artistic side in addition to science ability.

 

[SirGecko]

I would say, yeh. While the time commitment isn't as much as a division I sport it is more than say, club sports. Also music is awesome.

 

[LittleRocker]

So the value of an activity is determined by how much time you spend doing it? hmm...

 

[rowerlauren]

So the value of an activity is determined by how much time you spend doing it? hmm...

In many ways it is. Especially considering that sports take up so much time and also tire out the participants both mentally and physically to a greater extent than violin does. I will admit I don't play violin and never have, but you also haven't participated in a varsity sport.

I have practice for 3 hrs a day before class and then am recommended to do at least another hour of practice a day after classes. I know many people involved in a capella (which is huge at my school) and one of them is on my team and it isn't nearly as much of a commitment as my sport is.

 

[SirGecko]

Well no, not entirely, but that seemed to be the objection to saying that it was (roughly) as good. (honestly I'd say that being a dedicated musician is probably more relevant than a dedicated athlete but they are both good EC's)

 

[SirGecko]

In many ways it is. Especially considering that sports take up so much time and also tire out the participants both mentally and physically to a greater extent than violin does. I will admit I don't play violin and never have, but you also haven't participated in a varsity sport.

I have practice for 3 hrs a day before class and then am recommended to do at least another hour of practice a day after classes. I know many people involved in a capella (which is huge at my school) and one of them is on my team and it isn't nearly as much of a commitment as my sport is.

Isn't as big of a time commitment as a more "serious" study of music but yeh, I do see your point.

 

[Insulinshock]

I don't believe so, no. Not only does sports take much ouch of you mentally, but physically it completely drains you.

I don't play in college, but I went to a prestigious football high school so I can somewhat relate to college athletes. Once practices are done all you have energy to do is sleep and do nothing other than lay around. How a college athlete could put multiple hours in a day to their sport and STILL pull off good grades amazes me.

Playing an instrument requires MUCH time and practice, but the physical and emotional drain it takes from you doesn't even compare to a sport.

 

[Bacchus]

OP list it and forget these "haters." You have to practice long hours. It may not be as physically demanding but it is intellectually stimulating and gives you a break from the monotony of school. Dedication to orchestra and not just playing some Charlie Daniels (I guess that's a fiddle) is a distinct difference and one that should be noted.

 

[soparu]

I play the violin.

like omg! so do i!

though, i started out in music school and got a .90 GPA from there!

ouch!!

 

[metalhead1023]

like omg! so do i!

though, i started out in music school and got a .90 GPA from there!

ouch!!

Thats awesome well besides the GPA, lol. Have you played Mock Morris or Russlan and Ludmila?



And I just want to say thanks for your input guys, whether it comes across negative or positive I value it all.

 

[gates_2]

x2 on the forget the haters

Sports obviously take much more physically out of you, but to claim that serious musical study can not/is not as emotionally draining is just silly.

Though in sports your individual skill is much more visable- you train hard, and that training yields results! Often in large musical ensembles it is easy to assume the *strength in numbers* mentality.

OP... the real question comes down to were you the type to practice daily, show up to orchestra early, and actually be able to play your part, or were you the type that just shows up for a couple of hours without practicing and blend into the sea of violins, because you played seriously in high school?

If the former, good for you!

I have seen way too many of the latter at my school, and it is incredibly irritating

 

[metalhead1023]

x2 on the forget the haters

Sports obviously take much more physically out of you, but to claim that serious musical study can not/is not as emotionally draining is just silly.

Though in sports your individual skill is much more visable- you train hard, and that training yields results! Often in large musical ensembles it is easy to assume the *strength in numbers* mentality.

OP... the real question comes down to were you the type to practice daily, show up to orchestra early, and actually be able to play your part, or were you the type that just shows up for a couple of hours without practicing and blend into the sea of violins, because you played seriously in high school?

If the former, good for you!

I have seen way too many of the latter at my school, and it is incredibly irritating

I wont lie for years I was the latter but then as I hit high school my orchestra and conductor taught me what it was really about, meaning the family likeness involved and I improved in these last 2 years more than the 6 years before times 10.

 

[iduwanna]

ECs aren't judged by how "physically and mentally draining" they are.

Why would dedicating so much time and energy to "playing games" be considered a positive attribute? A lot of athletes seem to think that playing these childrens' games makes them some noble martyr. It's just silly.

 

[soparu]

Thats awesome well besides the GPA, lol. Have you played Mock Morris or Russlan and Ludmila?



And I just want to say thanks for your input guys, whether it comes across negative or positive I value it all.

oh wow, i've played russlan and ludmila but not mock morris. is that some sort of jewish piece?

 

[metalhead1023]

oh wow, i've played russlan and ludmila but not mock morris. is that some sort of jewish piece?

No, but if you goto myspace and look up Percy Grainger in music you will find his page with the song its fabulous.

 

[pianola]

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[LittleRocker]

So if someone spent 15 hours a day on their hands and knees cleaning a septic tank, or is perpertually recovering from the night of partying before (arguably as physically draining as a varsity sport) then it's just as valuable an activity? Obviously this is a ridiculous comparison. All I'm saying is that the physical toll an activity takes says nothing about the value of that activity.

 

[LittleRocker]

How a college athlete could put multiple hours in a day to their sport and STILL pull off good grades amazes me.

Playing an instrument requires MUCH time and practice, but the physical and emotional drain it takes from you doesn't even compare to a sport.

Are you "amazed" by the guy who can show up hungover to every class (or not show up at all) and still pull off the top grade in ochem?

 

[Narmerguy]

ECs aren't judged by how "physically and mentally draining" they are.

Why would dedicating so much time and energy to "playing games" be considered a positive attribute? A lot of athletes seem to think that playing these childrens' games makes them some noble martyr. It's just silly.

While I agree with most of the general message of your post, I have to disagree with your labeling of sports as "children's games". Most of the competitive and widely participated sports are professional careers for adults earning millions and millions. I think this justifies it being more than just a children's game even though many athletes and aspiring athletes devote large portions of their childhood to preparing and participating in these sports.

 

[Bacchus]

While I agree with most of the general message of your post, I have to disagree with your labeling of sports as "children's games". Most of the competitive and widely participated sports are professional careers for adults earning millions and millions. I think this justifies it being more than just a children's game even though many athletes and aspiring athletes devote large portions of their childhood to preparing and participating in these sports.

Its also a distribution of wealth that is questionable . Tell the inspirining teacher making 30k her job is "less important" than M. Jordan's basketball career.

 

[metalhead1023]

Its also a distribution of wealth that is questionable . Tell the inspirining teacher making 30k her job is "less important" than M. Jordan's basketball career.

truer words are rarely spoken.

 

[plauto]

To the OP, yes it looks good, at least as good as playing sports and med schools love it. You know....to make music you gotta be able to know how to use your body AND your head....

 

[LittleRocker]

While I agree with most of the general message of your post, I have to disagree with your labeling of sports as "children's games". Most of the competitive and widely participated sports are professional careers for adults earning millions and millions. I think this justifies it being more than just a children's game even though many athletes and aspiring athletes devote large portions of their childhood to preparing and participating in these sports.

Porn is also a professional career for adults earning millions

 

[rowerlauren]

I didn't mean to be a hater and sorry if I came across that way.

Orchestra and a serious devotion to it is definitely important to you application. In my opinion I don't think it's as big as sports, but that's my opinion. I'm an athlete and because of that I sort of assume that sports are harder, but I am not a violinist so I don't know first person.

 

[drcrabber]

Clearly you know nothing about the dedication it takes to play an instrument well enough to be in an orchestra.

are you serious? several of my friends are in my school's orchestra. i also have several friends who are D1 athletes.

clearly YOU do not know anything about college sports. ppl in orchestra do not practice 5 hours a day. most practice an hour/day and that's it. they then have orchestra class 3 times a week, in which they don't even have to go to every practice, and have maybe TWO concerts a semester. they also get a grade each semester for being in orchestra, which only inflates their GPAs because everyone gets As.

i'm done with you, especially since the rest of this thread has already flamed you. do your fingers get tired from moving that bow across your violin? awww

and for everyone else who doesn't actually have exposure to both sports vs. orchestra...i know both D1 athletes and orchestra ppl who are like violinists, violists, etc., and i assure you sports take at least 3x more dedication.

i was talking to this pre-dental student in my class the other day. want to know her schedule? first of all, she is a bio major and spanish minor with a 4.0, has all the leadership roles + volunteering, etc. she's in D1 cross country and track, which makes her active in the sport year-round. I asked her what her normal day is. wake up at 5am, run her 6 miles, go to class, lunch, run her other 6 miles, more class, homework, in bed by 10pm. weekends they have meets in which half of them includes traveling. the only athletes i know who balance both a sport with school are like runners and soccer players, though. i don't know any bball or football players who do both. those sports probably take even more dedication since schools take such sports so seriously.

 

[LittleRocker]

What's funny is you assume that I'm not on a sports team . I run D2 track. I guess some of us are better at balancing a schedule than others.

Suppose someone dedicated the same amount of time to playing Halo 3 as a D1 athlete does to his sport. Does that make the activity just as meaningful? You just don't get it. I'm saying the time you spend doing something says nothing about the quality of the activity.

 

[pianola]

I didn't mean to be a hater and sorry if I came across that way.

Orchestra and a serious devotion to it is definitely important to you application. In my opinion I don't think it's as big as sports, but that's my opinion. I'm an athlete and because of that I sort of assume that sports are harder, but I am not a violinist so I don't know first person.

See, and what's so funny is I'm kind of your exact opposite. I think of sports as stereotypically requiring brawn, not brains. Hopefully there's more to sports than that but having dropped PE in sixth grade I would hardly be one to know. In serious music study, you study interpretation (as with literature), theory (what are the rules of composition?), history, performance (how do I walk on stage and present the complete package of everything that I've been studying), among other things. The physical act of controlling your body's movements requires endurance and persistence (to get the right sound).

Wonder what adcoms think of the sports v. music debate?

 

[rowerlauren]

Sports take a lot of intelligence and are very mental. Don't judge just because you don't participate as lacking in brains.

I don't think this can be easily settled since I don't know anyone who aces their classes, competes at a high level and is a committed musician simply because doing so would be CRAZY. If you are able to demonstrate how committed to music you are then it does reflect well upon you to the AdCom. It probably depends upon the particular person whether they think orchestra or sports are more mentally and physically challenging so both probably look good.

Don't judge athletes as simply being "dumb" jocks... since honestly we aren't!

 

[soparu]

are you serious? several of my friends are in my school's orchestra. i also have several friends who are D1 athletes.

clearly YOU do not know anything about college sports. ppl in orchestra do not practice 5 hours a day. most practice an hour/day and that's it. they then have orchestra class 3 times a week, in which they don't even have to go to every practice, and have maybe TWO concerts a semester. they also get a grade each semester for being in orchestra, which only inflates their GPAs because everyone gets As.

i'm done with you, especially since the rest of this thread has already flamed you. do your fingers get tired from moving that bow across your violin? awww

and for everyone else who doesn't actually have exposure to both sports vs. orchestra...i know both D1 athletes and orchestra ppl who are like violinists, violists, etc., and i assure you sports take at least 3x more dedication.

clearly YOU don't know about music. SERIOUS musicians aren't the casual orchestra members.
"orchestra" alone isn't a feat. if they're performance majors or serious violinists it's like a sport.
i suffered through a http://www.meadowmount.com/students/sched.shtml "professional" summer camp (insert band camp jokes here) that practiced about 6 hours a day not counting chamber music or lessons or master classes. honestly that should have been a cue that music wasn't right for me, it would have saved me from getting a .90 GPA at a conservatory.

 

[LittleRocker]

I think we can agree that being a concert pianist or a professional football player requires an equal amount of dedication. It's safe to say, however, that being a musician is much more mentally stimulating. Therefore, if time is spent equally, music trumps sports.

 

[pianola]

Sports take a lot of intelligence and are very mental. Don't judge just because you don't participate as lacking in brains.

I don't think this can be easily settled since I don't know anyone who aces their classes, competes at a high level and is a committed musician simply because doing so would be CRAZY. If you are able to demonstrate how committed to music you are then it does reflect well upon you to the AdCom. It probably depends upon the particular person whether they think orchestra or sports are more mentally and physically challenging so both probably look good.

Don't judge athletes as simply being "dumb" jocks... since honestly we aren't!

Oh I don't judge! I mean, like I said, the girl who dropped PE in 6th grade probably has no business laying out mandates about sports. I mean, there are probably a number of the same issues, right? Sports isn't just repetitive movements, right? I mean the way I would imagine sports (if I understood or played them) is that there should be strategy involved either in the play or the execution, teamwork, etc...I would be interested in knowing more, though.

Actually, kind of interesting, the PI I was working for last semester made a derisive comment about how musicians were probably used to just doing repetitive movements over and over again and that's probably why student X (someone else in our lab) was unable to grasp "higher" concepts. I kind of gave her this look like "Why are you telling ME this? Are you insane?"

Irritating how people assume music majors chose the "easiest" major...

 

[phonyreal98]

Irritating how people assume music majors chose the "easiest" major...

So true. All the music theory and eartraining that music majors have to go through is actually pretty hard!!!

 

[Vihsadas]

How about this...

I've been competitive in sports AND music in my life. The fact of the matter is this:

It doesn't matter what discipline, activity or skill you are talking about, if you practice it a high level they both require an insane commitment, passion and time devotion.

This talk of which is a more valuable, music or sports, is in my opinion, absolute and complete nonsense.

What matters is your personal devotion to the activity that you're doing.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has been nationally and internationally competitive at both music and athletics. They both require gigantic time and effort.

 

[jhamaican]

no way.

do you spend 5 hours on orchestra a day? do you have to wake up at 5:00 am every morning? do you travel like every other weekend? no.

i'm sure orchestra still looks good, though.

As if waking up at 5 in the morning and having to travel every other weekend is such hardship. Many people including myself do those things and do not even play intramural or collegiate sports.

America has been becoming increasingly obsessed with sports. The top sports athletes make millions while a violinist in the Chicago Philharmonic makes a mere pittance in comparison. The ironic part is that in my opinion, the violinist had to work just as hard, if not harder, to achieve the same level of mastery as the top athlete. A person can be born naturally larger and more athletic than others giving them an early advantage in sports. No one is born with the innate ability to play a musical instrument.

To put any sport on a higher tier of dedciation than playing a musical instrument is absurd. Playing the Handel-Halvorsen Passacaglia takes as much dedication and teamwork as any sport.

 

[Livingapparatus]

It depends on how good you are

 

[Charles English]

How about this...

I've been competitive in sports AND music in my life. The fact of the matter is this:

It doesn't matter what discipline, activity or skill you are talking about, if you practice it a high level they both require an insane commitment, passion and time devotion.

This talk of which is a more valuable, music or sports, is in my opinion, absolute and complete nonsense.

What matters is your personal devotion to the activity that you're doing.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has been nationally and internationally competitive at both music and athletics. They both require gigantic time and effort.

at first, i thought this thread read something like "can you list orchestra as a sport?" , which i thought would have been funny to hear (read). but, no, it is a war. i quote the mighty Vihsadas on this one because i think this is the right idea. being on the music side of things, i can attest to the serious time and devotion mastery requires, but the same is true for sports. no need to haggle over who is better people... in the end, either or both will be cool to put on your app. and isn't this what it is really about? -- no. you mean you are all actually trying to enrich and improve your life? well, then, all the more reason to quit b*tching.

/rant

 

[pianola]

at first, i thought this thread read something like "can you list orchestra as a sport?"

That's what I read. Whoops.

 

[soparu]

America has been becoming increasingly obsessed with sports. The top sports athletes make millions while a violinist in the Chicago Philharmonic makes a mere pittance in comparison. The ironic part is that in my opinion, the violinist had to work just as hard, if not harder, to achieve the same level of mastery as the top athlete. A person can be born naturally larger and more athletic than others giving them an early advantage in sports. No one is born with the innate ability to play a musical instrument.

the sad part is when the violinist works that hard to get into the chicago symphony only to play the same boring orchestral works over and over again. in that sense, it is like med school.

plus those god awful pop concerts to delight the masses.

 

[chr123]

Sports take a lot of intelligence and are very mental. Don't judge just because you don't participate as lacking in brains.

I don't think this can be easily settled since I don't know anyone who aces their classes, competes at a high level and is a committed musician simply because doing so would be CRAZY. If you are able to demonstrate how committed to music you are then it does reflect well upon you to the AdCom. It probably depends upon the particular person whether they think orchestra or sports are more mentally and physically challenging so both probably look good.

Don't judge athletes as simply being "dumb" jocks... since honestly we aren't!

Some of the guys I rowed with were pretty smart, but I've met more than my fair share of meat-head rowers

 

[Soccerdoc11]

It is truly impossible to compare unless you yourself have participated in both at high levels at the same time.. I have played both music and soccer my whole life but stopped the sax in college and picked up guitar (due to a terrible professor). All I know is that a D1 sport is pretty damn hard and affects all daily aspects of life. What many people don't know is the recruiting process and the work that goes into it in order to become a D1 athlete such as the money to travel all over the world (at least for soccer). I wouldn't regret any of it in order to have 3 majors or TA that extra lab because the intangible benefits one receives is unattainable for the most part from other activities. I hope that Adcoms value both music and sports over those who just lock themselves up in a room and read all day because it is not just the time but the life lessons gained through such activities that mean so much.

 

[ManualEvac]

Some of the guys I rowed with were pretty smart, but I've met more than my fair share of meat-head rowers

You want meatheads, try spending an evening with a percussionist sometime

I know a concert percussionist with a PhD in performance who farts in beer bottles at orchestra dinner parties. As both a former competitive athlete and a trained musician, I can vouch that both are equally ineffective markers of your ******edness and/or awesomeness, but both look great on a resume or med school app.

 

[soparu]

you Want Meatheads, Try Spending An Evening With A Percussionist Sometime

I Know A Concert Percussionist With A Phd In Performance Who Farts In Beer Bottles At Orchestra Dinner Parties. As Both A Former Competitive Athlete And A Trained Musician, I Can Vouch That Both Are Equally Ineffective Markers Of Your ******edness And/or Awesomeness, But Both Look Great On A Resume Or Med School App.

Hahaha!

 

[metalhead1023]

...both look great on a resume or med school app.

Thank you

 

[Vihsadas]

You want meatheads, try spending an evening with a percussionist sometime

I know a concert percussionist with a PhD in performance who farts in beer bottles at orchestra dinner parties. As both a former competitive athlete and a trained musician, I can vouch that both are equally ineffective markers of your ******edness and/or awesomeness, but both look great on a resume or med school app.

Fantastic.

 

[drcrabber]

How about this...

I've been competitive in sports AND music in my life. The fact of the matter is this:

It doesn't matter what discipline, activity or skill you are talking about, if you practice it a high level they both require an insane commitment, passion and time devotion.

This talk of which is a more valuable, music or sports, is in my opinion, absolute and complete nonsense.

What matters is your personal devotion to the activity that you're doing.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has been nationally and internationally competitive at both music and athletics. They both require gigantic time and effort.

"I used to play hockey competitively (AAA level, continued in university at a high-level intramural league)"

that isn't collegiate athletics. intramurals? are you kidding me? at a "high-level intramural league?" as long as you play in the highest league you can say that. my school has A, B, and C intramural leagues. guess how much time that is per week for any of the leagues? 1-2 hours a week. dannng, are you serious?? that's too much!

as for "hockey AAA..," "AAA Hockey is a classification of hockey that surpasses the A level of competition found at the typical youth hockey level." dannng, i am so impressed!

sorry to mess with ya, but you don't need to gloat. we're talking collegiate D1 athletics here, not intramurals or high school hockey. nice MCAT, though!

my friend plays the viola in my school's orchestra. she practices 4-5 hours/week, attends class 3 1-hour classes/week, and has 2 hours of lessons/week. a D1 runner has at least 3 hours of STRENUOUS, physical practice/day at 5am. so that's 21 hours of PHYSICAL work for the runner versus ~10 hours of stringing an instrument for the violist. i didn't mention the violist doesn't have to go to class/practice every time. she only has 2 concerts a semester that are a 5-min drive away. the runners have an away meet every other weekend in which they travel hours to get there! the runners ALSO have to live on a super strict diet. i mean, come on, you can't compare the two.