Does prestige matter?

[chemdoctor]

Just wondering if the prestige of the UG school matter? I mean obviously it does if you're applying to Ivy Leagues as Ivy League med schools accept Ivy League students. But what if you're not gonna be applying to Ivies and just want a decent MD school? If you attend a college that is academically inferior to you, would that be better? Wouldn't a harder more rigorous college help prepare you to learn, understand and apply the material in real life? Wouldn't a harder college help prepare you for the MCAT? Is a 3.8< GPA really worth it if you attend a garbage school?

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[Professional Student]

It does matter but not nearly as much as the MCAT. A 518+ can take you anywhere no matter where you got a bachelors. For this reason, I'm not convinced there's actually that many "garbage" 4 year universities out there. As long as you are taking actual science classes and not "Dancing molecules and bodies" (like at some LACs) for courses like biochemistry then you are receiving the instruction needed to succeed on the MCAT just like anyone else. But in a tie situation, prestige will help you out.

 

[chemdoctor]

It does matter but not nearly as much as the MCAT. A 518+ can take you anywhere no matter where you got a bachelors. For this reason, I'm not convinced there's actually that many "garbage" 4 year universities out there. As long as you are taking actual science classes and not "Dancing molecules and bodies" (like at some LACs) for courses like biochemistry then you are receiving the instruction needed to succeed on the MCAT just like anyone else. But in a tie situation, prestige will help you out.

Sorry but what do you mean by a tie situation? Like if two applicants with similar stats apply to the same school?

 

[Professional Student]

Sorry but what do you mean by a tie situation? Like if two applicants with similar stats apply to the same school?

Well in reality I'm sure there are hardly ever any ties because there are too many factors and too many applicants. But what I mean is that if two applicants are very similar, or have been scored the same from their entire applications, someone from an Ivy would get the nod over someone from my school for example. Basically what I am saying is that prestige is a factor, but there are many other factors that carry much more weight.

 

[altblue]

On the topic of your MCAT, I can say that I would've done decent at best on the MCAT if I had gone to an easy school, though others may differ in this respect.....unless you have significant amounts of experience of problem solving (like doing lots of independent research or math/science competitions) or are just a naturally gifted test-taker it's hard to do well with the mush that many unselective schools or cc's commonly hand out. The science subjects that were easier at my school or ones I took at a CC were also comparatively harder on the MCAT. I couldn't have imagined after going through an easy biochem or molecular bio how deficient my education would have been in preparing me for the MCAT

 

[efle]

A high GPA matters a lot more than prestige. If going to the hard school means you get a 3.4 GPA for example, then yeah the person who went to their state campus and got a 3.9 is in a much better position

 

[chemdoctor]

A high GPA matters a lot more than prestige. If going to the hard school means you get a 3.4 GPA for example, then yeah the person who went to their state campus and got a 3.9 is in a much better position

Oh interesting. What about a 3.6/3.7 from a hard school vs a 3.8/3.9 from a crap school?

 

[Disciple of Sattar]

Oh interesting. What about a 3.6/3.7 from a hard school vs a 3.8/3.9 from a crap school?

What is a crap school? If the students' MCAT scores are the same the 3.9 is more helpful.

Anecdotally, I have two friends who went to "lower ranked" private UG instead of our state school. Their school is ranked 80-90th if you believe US News. One is a first year at HMS right now, another is a first year at Harvard's Dental School.

 

[Goro]

Oh interesting. What about a 3.6/3.7 from a hard school vs a 3.8/3.9 from a crap school?

If either school is a feeder for the med school, kids will get IIs. In fact, both candidates have GPAs that will get into Stanford/Harvard class schools.

But SDNers should not focus, moth-like on single criteria. Also, do not assume that Admissions deans, screeners and Adcom members know the caliber of every UG school in the US, nor do we know what schools grade deflate vs inflate.

In the end, no matter what school you go to, it's up to you to do well, and not rely on name brand, even if there's a lot of inbreeding at the Ivies.

One more observation. Every now and then when my Adcom meets, we have a borderline candidate who has been scored onto the wait list, and someone invariable chimes in "S/he got a 3.3 GPA at [name school]. That's a great school; it has to count for something"

We mull this over for a few seconds, keep the candidate on the wait list, and move on to the next name under consideration.

 

[efle]

Oh interesting. What about a 3.6/3.7 from a hard school vs a 3.8/3.9 from a crap school?

If the difference is going to be small in GPA, the "hard school" might make the path easier, but not just because it's well known. The "crap" school might have some other disadvantages, like lacking lots of research opportunities, or being in the middle of nowhere so there is little chance to do clinical volunteering, or not teaching you a lot of the prereq material that shows up on the MCAT so you're forced to try and teach yourself from scratch.

 

[chemdoctor]

If the difference is going to be small in GPA, the "hard school" might make the path easier, but not just because it's well known. The "crap" school might have some other disadvantages, like lacking lots of research opportunities, or being in the middle of nowhere so there is little chance to do clinical volunteering, or not teaching you a lot of the prereq material that shows up on the MCAT so you're forced to try and teach yourself from scratch.

Basically the college I attend, is really low ranked and not well known. It sucks lol. Also, students that attend it are known to do terribly on the MCAT bc the college doesn't teach them ****

 

[chemdoctor]

What is a crap school? If the students' MCAT scores are the same the 3.9 is more helpful.

Anecdotally, I have two friends who went to "lower ranked" private UG instead of our state school. Their school is ranked 80-90th if you believe US News. One is a first year at HMS right now, another is a first year at Harvard's Dental School.

But they were still private schools and an 80-90th ranking is not bad

 

[BunnyMan17]

On the topic of your MCAT, I can say that I would've decent at best on the MCAT if I had gone to an easy school, though others may differ in this respect.....unless you have significant amounts of experience of problem solving (like doing lots of independent research or math/science competitions) or are just a naturally gifted test-taker it's hard to do well with the mush that many unselective schools or cc's commonly hand out. The science subjects that were easier at my school or ones I took at a CC were also comparatively harder on the MCAT. I couldn't have imagined after going through an easy biochem or molecular bio how deficient my education would have been in preparing me for the MCAT

I'd echo this sentiment. I managed to do well on the MCAT and a large factor in that was the rigor of my UG.

As far as pure prestige mattering, the admissions people I talked to generally said it depended on the situation. I.e. GPA, how well the admissions committee knows the school, MCAT related to UG rigor, region, etc.

 

[efle]

Basically the college I attend, is really low ranked and not well known. It sucks lol. Also, students that attend it are known to do terribly on the MCAT bc the college doesn't teach them ****

Dedicate a ton of time to the MCAT prep then. Doing well on that matters a lot more than whether they know of your college.

 

[chemdoctor]

If either school is a feeder for the med school, kids will get IIs. In fact, both candidates have GPAs that will get into Stanford/Harvard class schools.

But SDNers should not focus, moth-like on single criteria. Also, do not assume that Admissions deans, screeners and Adcom members know the caliber of every UG school in the US, nor do we know what schools grade deflate vs inflate.

In the end, no matter what school you go to, it's up to you to do well, and not rely on name brand, even if there's a lot of inbreeding at the Ivies.

One more observation. Every now and then when my Adcom meets, we have a borderline candidate who has been scored onto the wait list, and someone invariable chimes in "S/he got a 3.3 GPA at [name school]. That's a great school; it has to count for something"

We mull this over for a few seconds, keep the candidate on the wait list, and move on to the next name under consideration.

Dedicate a ton of time to the MCAT prep then. Doing well on that matters a lot more than whether they know of your college.

Yeah that sounds like what I'm gonna do. I'm graduating early so maybe a full year to hardcore MCAT prep nonstop

 

[efle]

A year is excessive! A full summer should be enough

 

[chemdoctor]

A year is excessive! A full summer should be enough

really?? A full summer??

 

[efle]

Yeah, it shouldn't take more than a few hundred hours of prep. If you aren't scoring competitively on practice exams after a few months preparing, you likely aren't going to fix that by adding another few months.

 

[chemdoctor]

Yeah, it shouldn't take more than a few hundred hours of prep. If you aren't scoring competitively on practice exams after a few months preparing, you likely aren't going to fix that by adding another few months.

🙁

 

[efle]

🙁

Why would you be sad to hear it takes 1/4th as much study time as you thought ???

 

[chemdoctor]

Why would you be sad to hear it takes 1/4th as much study time as you thought ???

You said that a couple months won't make much difference. So if I score low throughout the summer, I may not be able to improve my score 🙁

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah that sounds like what I'm gonna do. I'm graduating early so maybe a full year to hardcore MCAT prep nonstop

Studying efficiently and effectively matters way more than time spent studying. A year of hardcore prep will lead to burnout fast and a lot of wasted time. Instead, studying few hours per day actively (doing practice passages and reviewing them thoroughly) for 3-4 months with a practice test every week or so followed by solid review is an effective schedule to doing well on the exam.

 

[Gurby]

Basically the college I attend, is really low ranked and not well known. It sucks lol. Also, students that attend it are known to do terribly on the MCAT bc the college doesn't teach them ****

My experience attending crummy colleges is that it's usually not really the fault of the teachers. The bar is set low and people are barely getting over it already - if you raise the bar it just results in almost everyone failing... I still remember in an A+P class I took, someone raised their hand to complain about something and said, "it's not like we're going to be doctors" 😢 I got something like a 120% for my final grade in that class after the scale was applied...

Point being, don't use your classmates as the measuring stick. You might have to push yourself above and beyond the expectations of your classes if you want to really be prepared for the MCAT.

 

[altblue]

Yeah, it shouldn't take more than a few hundred hours of prep. If you aren't scoring competitively on practice exams after a few months preparing, you likely aren't going to fix that by adding another few months.

I agree that simply adding more time is unlikely to help at that point, sure, but there may be other issues like horribly inefficient studying, having not taken the prereqs, or test-taking skills that can also interfere.

The exam isn't that bad and as long as one's somewhat bright and has learned the material well, they should be able to get into the 70th+ percentile. It's just that people sometimes have godawful approaches that interfere with reaching this point, like not studying for CARS when they need to or not even touching P/S (!)

 

[Mad Jack]

What a refreshing and interesting topic that wouldn't have returned hundreds of results from a simple use of the search function.

 

[PremedExplorer]

What is a crap school? If the students' MCAT scores are the same the 3.9 is more helpful.

Anecdotally, I have two friends who went to "lower ranked" private UG instead of our state school. Their school is ranked 80-90th if you believe US News. One is a first year at HMS right now, another is a first year at Harvard's Dental School.

What factored the most in getting both into HMS as they would describe it?

 

[chemdoctor]

Excelling at the school they were at. High standardized test scores. Volunteering an absurd amount with the under-served (this was the hook). Neither did research other than a summer internship.

Also, we have all agreed that their classes were easier, like multiple choice 30 question exams asking "what reaction is this" for Ochem. Allowed them to get a 4.0 or close to it without sacrificing ECs. Then they just put months of full time studying into their MCAT and DAT and got high scores. Even though their classes were less rigorous, nobody cared, knew, or viewed them any differently.

Well that answers my question... Guess it doesn't really matter then...

 

[aldol16]

Your undergraduate school doesn't really matter as long as you have a high GPA and MCAT. Obviously, if you want to go to a top private med school, that school will accept a higher proportion of its own graduates. It just looks bad if you don't. Obviously one can always make the argument that going to a rigorous school helps you achieve that high MCAT score. But if you can get the high MCAT score and have the killer app that most students at top schools have, you won't have a problem.

 

[workaholic181]

I took a few CC courses and absolutely loved them.. learned a ton about the subjects I question. They definitely helped me do well on the MCAT. I suppose not all CCs are made equal but it would be incorrect IMO to blankedly state that taking courses at a CC will invariably look bad for med school and leave your mastery of that material wanting.

 

[chemdoctor]

I wouldn't pick the school inferior to you because then you wouldn't strive to reach your potential and will slack off like the other students. They may not offer as many research opportunities or the faculty may not be as reliable

I completely 100% agree. Going to an inferior school, makes you not learn ****, faculties are stupid, not much research opportunities, you won't be motivated like your peers, you'll struggle on the MCAT, etc. many more horrible things. I agree. I'm screwed.

 

[chemdoctor]

I wouldn't say screwed. You would just have to rely more on yourself to not catch the slacker attitude from peers and try harder to find research in your school or through summer programs on your own. The MCAT is rough on everyone but having a defeatist attitude will only hurt you.

I suppose so. It's just that I'm gonna have to rely more on myself. Gonna study hard for the MCAT. Hopefully I can score atleast a 510+

 

[FinPreMed2020]

OP I had the same question on my mind and felt much better after talking to my fellow pre-meds here on SDN and to my UG pre-med advisor. Your UG school is not a determining factor. Focus on your GPA and MCAT.
I go to a public 4-year state school which has the acceptance rate of 68 % (2015) so yeah my school is not prestigious. However, I just yesterday saw my pre-med advisor and she kindly showed me all the data of accepted students from my school. The average acceptance rate from my school every year is 36 % which is at the national level (about 50k applicants, 20k get accepted). She even showed me some students' GPA, what MD school they got into etc (didn't show the names of students). It is absolutely doable to get into a med school from any accredited university/college. I go to a CSU (Cal State University) and the competition of MD spots in California is crazy! My fellow students who have got in from my CSU, have got into schools like UCSD and UCLA.
After seeing the data and real proof, I don't have a single cell in my body that would doubt getting in from a non-prestigious school. So don't worry, you absolutely can do it!
Also about the rate of UCs accepting UC students... Let us not forget that according to AMCAS, there are annually over 1000 pre-meds applying from UCLA alone. In the state of California, there probably isn't even that many 1st year medical student school spots in total! So of course when a single UC school has that great of an abundance of pre-meds, there will be more accepted UC students than lets say from my school (where annually 80-90 students apply).
Long story short: you can do it! Do not let anyone (including some negative people here on SDN) tell you that you can't. I stressed way too much over some people here saying "my dad's friend is an adcom and he said he would never accept a 3.9 from state school over a 3.6 from prestigious school". Don't listen to them! You are an individual and that is how you are going to be evaluated !
Best of luck to you!