Does the rapidly growing number of DO grads pose a risk for devaluation?

[deleted812153]

The number of DO students is exploding in recent years.

* 50,000 practicing physicians in 2002 to a projection of more than 100,000 in 2020.

* "Between 1980 and 2005, the number of osteopathic graduates per year increased over 250 percent from about 1,000 to 2,800. This number is expected to approach 5,000 by 2015."

Osteopathic medicine in the United States - Wikipedia

* The number of residency spots hasn't changed much in a long time, and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't change for another 20 years.
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Is this something to worry about? Is there a risk of osteopathic programs turning into the new law school? How much more competitive are residencies outside of PC going to be in 2022?

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[randomthings24]

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[pseud0]

I would honestly think the opposite...The more DOs that are around doing regular doctor things the more people will recognize them as actual physicians.

The thing about PC being our only option...well we just don't know yet. It's a wait and see.

 

[DO2015CA]

Is the explosion of MDs devaluating their degree? No. The only thing most recruiters care about are if you are board certified.

As sorta stated above, more DOs mean more raw numbers of DOs going into PC fields.

 

[Peach Newport]

You can't devalue the DO degree without also devaluing the MD degree, because "doctor" is a job. We're in this boat together.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I believe OP is asking in the context of matching into residency.

First, I got to dispel something before I go into my rant. For the love of god pre-meds (referring to the ones that posted), don't lump PC residencies together like they are all low tier garbage that anybody with a pulse can match into. There are some top internal medicine and pediatric residencies where you need a 250 UMSLE score to be competitive. And the reason for this is 1) extremely good location 2) extremely good training 3) and of course extremely good fellowship matching. DOs in general match match worse than MDs into ACGME residencies, and this leads worse fellowship matching. In other words, you don't train in a good internal medicine residency you don't get to match into gastroenterology...

With that out of the way, I high doubt what is happening to lawyers in the job market will happen so easily to medical students in matching. With law, the only standardized testing exam they take is the bar. They only tell you a score if you failed your bar, but if you pass it just shows you pass. So beyond that their is no standardize test or way to measure students to show the quality level. Thus you have a tier system being the dominant system of picking students. However, with medicine this is less of an issue. You have several standard measures 1) 2 USMLE exams 2) auditions/LOR from other institutions 3) research publications etc. that help students from lower institutions match into competitive residencies. Thus, residencies are less reliant on tiers of medical school. However, with that said tiers still exist in the MD world. As to how much the expansions will push residencies to tier schools more is anyones guess.

 

[Goro]

Donald J. Trump, post: 19157132, member: 812153"]The number of DO students is exploding in recent years.

* 50,000 practicing physicians in 2002 to a projection of more than 100,000 in 2020.

* "Between 1980 and 2005, the number of osteopathic graduates per year increased over 250 percent from about 1,000 to 2,800. This number is expected to approach 5,000 by 2015."

Osteopathic medicine in the United States - Wikipedia

* The number of residency spots hasn't changed much in a long time, and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't change for another 20 years.
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Is this something to worry about? Is there a risk of osteopathic programs turning into the new law school? How much more competitive are residencies outside of PC going to be in 2022?[/QUOTE]
Does the Wiki article account for the fact that the entire Baby Boom generation of doctor's (which accounts for what, about 25%+ of the current clinician population) is going to retire over the next two decades?

As of right now, there are still more residency slots than there are graduates to fill them. My school is working to open a few more slots at region hospitals. Every little bit helps.

There is no doctor shortage, but a maldistribution. So it may reach a point where you DON'T get to set up practice in Boston or Long Island...you have to go to Jonesboro, AR or Kalispell, MT.

The number of MD schools that have opened in the past 15-20 years is exactly equal to the number of DO schools that have opened. So don't be blinded by the % increase in DOs...the absolute number of DOs and MDs from new schools being trained are roughly equal.

Here's another thing where COCA and LCME differ from the ABA. The former care about their grads getting employment; the latter doesn't give a rat's ass. If med school graduates can't find residencies, their schools will be sanctioned...which means they either close, or reduce class sizes. All the DO schools opening branch campuses like Starbucks' would get what they deserve on that score, if it comes to pass. I'm talking to you, LECOM, VCOM and Touro.

Just as an aside, all you have to do to be a lawyer in the US is pass the bar exam. There have been people who passed the bar without ever going to law school! Can you image clinician training if all you needed to do was pass USMLE!!!???!!!

 

[deleted812153]

I believe OP is asking in the context of matching into residency.

First, I got to dispel something before I go into my rant. For the love of god pre-meds (referring to the ones that posted), don't lump PC residencies together like they are all low tier garbage that anybody with a pulse can match into. There are some top internal medicine and pediatric residencies where you need a 250 UMSLE score to be competitive. And the reason for this is 1) extremely good location 2) extremely good training 3) and of course extremely good fellowship matching. DOs in general match match worse than MDs into ACGME residencies, and this leads worse fellowship matching. In other words, you don't train in a good internal medicine residency you don't get to match into gastroenterology...

Definitely not throwing shade at PC. However, it definitely doesn't appeal to everybody, especially for the kinds of people that premedical education selects for.

 

[Coltuna]

Just as an aside, all you have to do to be a lawyer in the US is pass the bar exam.

This is a little misleading. This option is available in only 4 U.S. states, and those who don't go to law school have to do an appreticeship (3-10 years depending on the state) under a judge or attorney before taking the exam. But like you said, just an aside and not the main point.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Definitely not throwing shade at PC. However, it definitely doesn't appeal to everybody, especially for the kinds of people that premedical education selects for.

You don't necessarily have like general medicine to like the specialty medicine (ex. cardiology, oncology, gastroenterology). However, you have to match well into internal medicine or pediatrics to match into these fellowships. Surprisingly enough medical students are not choosing previously competitive fields such as anesthesia and radiology (yes, I know the market is picking up) but instead internal medicine/pediatrics to match into those competitive fellowships. Thus driving the competition of these PC fields up. You cannot necessarily exclude from being something DOs can easily be matching into because whose to say what will happen in the future, even psych (a field not many wanted to touch in the past) is now slowly becoming competitive. This is what I meant.

 

[DO2015CA]

You also don't have to be PC if you do match into IM, peds, or even In certain areas FM. General hospitalist are growing and it's extremely interesting because you see so much and you see physiology and progression of pathology. So even if someone is an unlucky person that is forced into those specialties due to THEIR boardscores doesn't mean that it's the end of the world. Notice I capitalized their because at this point we hold our future in our hands. Theare are so many midwestern Specialties that readily take DOs as long as they are performing at their MD counterpar's level.. excluding certain hypercompetitive specialties.